Olympic Track Cycling *Warning - contains unmasked spoilers*

Beasty

So after World records galore, DSQs, Philip Hindes deliberately falling to get Team GB a re-run, what will Day 2 of the Track Cycling bring? GB must be hot favourites for the men's pursuit after yesterday's World record and don't be surprised if the GB women's team set a new record in today's pursuit qualification.

Today's other final is the Women's kierin with another Victoria Pendleton/Anna Meares showdown on the cards

Tomorrow and Sunday are the big days for Ireland with Martyn Irvine going in the Omnium

elduggo

YAWWWNNNNN

Track Cycling is so boring. I'd imagine its good fun to do mind you.

Can someone explain what the controversy surrounding the German/English guy (Hindes) is? The gist seems to be that he crashed on purpose cos he had a bad start and theres a rule that says the race must restart when that happens? All sounds a bit devious to me.

elduggo

Seems I have it right;

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/other/2012/0803/1224321383218.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"We were saying if we have a bad start we need to crash to get a restart," Hindes told the BBC after the final. "I just crashed. I did it on purpose to get a restart... it was all planned really."

Beasty

Purest form of the sport. Great to take part and watch. If you really find it that boring, why bother "contributing" to the thread?

Lumen

Beasty wrote: »

why bother "contributing" to the thread?

Beasty-baiting?

ratracer

Yesterdays events on the track were awesome, three new w/r's in one womens event and still none of them took home gold. The short races are very exciting, but which one is the team event that goes on forever, the sling shot passing is great but it does go on a bit too long.

elduggo

Beasty wrote: »

Purest form of the sport. Great to take part and watch. If you really find it that boring, why bother "contributing" to the thread?

ok sorry

postitnote

"but which one is the team event that goes on forever, the sling shot passing is great but it does go on a bit too long."

That team event is gone from this olympics I think, it was called the Madison. I liked it for the carnage I seem to recall it always created.

RobFowl

I thought GB were awesome in the team sprint yesterday. Chris Hoy really gave everything in the final. Mrs Fowl and I were literally screaming at the TV. (She's British and kids dual nationality so as a family feel affinity towards both GB and Ireland) .
So looking forward to Martyn over the weekend though. He's has worked so hard on minimal resources to get there and I really think he can get a medal. He'll certainly give it 100% unlike some of the other sports we've seen so far.
Felt genuinely gutted for the women's team sprinters and thought the Chinese women especially showed great dignity and class on the podium after losing by a really borderline DSQ.
Anyone who thinks track racing is boring needs to take up golf

kenmc

elduggo wrote: »

Seems I have it right;

"We were saying if we have a bad start we need to crash to get a restart," Hindes told the BBC after the final. "I just crashed. I did it on purpose to get a restart... it was all planned really."

:mad:Cycling meets soccer :mad:

donfers

what disgusts me most is the hypocrasy within the British media, I expect all the truimphalism and jingoism, a lot of nations are guilty of that including ourselves but for a media which has traditionally been regarded as highly interrogative even cynical the relative hush and lack of critical insight of what hindes did (and also how some of their boxers managed to get through) just goes to show that hometown propoganda is something that GB do just as well as many of the countries they have previously sneered at and thought themselves above

AG2R

what time does this start?
Love track cycling

Lumen

donfers wrote: »

hometown propoganda is something that GB do just as well as many of the countries they have previously sneered at and thought themselves above

You mean the Germans? Ironic.

dastardly00

I watched a couple of hours of the track cycling yesterday evening, I thought it was class!
I missed Philip Hindes 'crash'. Anybody have a link to the video of it?

Royal Legend

Sure isn't Hindes German anyway, so its not "really" the British cheating, its in his German blood

Anyway, this is the norm, if it was the Aussies, the Chinese etc they would do the same, I felt sorry for the Chinese girls last night, it looked a harsh decision.

Pendleton and Mears, if they both get through, will be an amazing final, considering what happened at the Worlds

bwatson

elduggo wrote: »

Seems I have it right;

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/other/2012/0803/1224321383218.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Rather typical of the Irish Times isn't it? :rolleyes: Prefer to go with "The British are cheats" as the biggest story in their olympic section over "The British win gold and smash the team sprint WR"...

jinkypolly

donfers wrote: »

what disgusts me most is the hypocrasy within the British media, I expect all the triumphalism and jingoism, a lot of nations are guilty of that including ourselves but for a media which has traditionally been regarded as highly interrogative even cynical the relative hush and lack of critical insight of what hindes did (and also how some of their boxers managed to get through) just goes to show that hometown propoganda is something that GB do just as well as many of the countries they have previously sneered at and thought themselves above

Calm down, calm down. What Hindes done is not new to track cycling, it happens a lot, if they had broken a rule they would have been DQ'd. You could argue about the spirit of the tactics but those guys are there to win a medal not to play some sentimental game.
Maybe you shouldn't read/watch the British media with all their hypocrisy, triumphalism, jingoism, propaganda and sneering, surprised that you obviously do.

kenmc

bwatson wrote: »

Rather typical of the Irish Times isn't it? :rolleyes: Prefer to go with "The British are cheats" as the biggest story in their olympic section over "The British win gold and smash the team sprint WR"...

But it's true. It's not like they just made up the story.

morana

kenmc wrote: »

But it's true. It's not like they just made up the story.

I think the tactic is shocking. And I dont agree its in the rules. if he crashed due to a mechanical or a bit of bit luck fair enough but to deliberately crash because he knew the start was bad is similar to what the badminton players did.

Lumen

morana wrote: »

I think the tactic is shocking. And I dont agree its in the rules. if he crashed due to a mechanical or a bit of bit luck fair enough but to deliberately crash because he knew the start was bad is similar to what the badminton players did.

It would be the same if the badminton players had to "throw" the match by throwing themselves into the nearest wall. That I'd watch.

bwatson

kenmc wrote: »

But it's true. It's not like they just made up the story.

Shows you the agenda though. If they think that this instance of "cheating" is of more importance than the gold and the new world record then you can't argue. After all, nobody is more finely tuned to the needs of their readership than a paper itself.

bwatson

donfers wrote: »

what disgusts me most is the hypocrasy within the British media, I expect all the truimphalism and jingoism, a lot of nations are guilty of that including ourselves but for a media which has traditionally been regarded as highly interrogative even cynical the relative hush and lack of critical insight of what hindes did (and also how some of their boxers managed to get through) just goes to show that hometown propoganda is something that GB do just as well as many of the countries they have previously sneered at and thought themselves above

Is it really triumphalism? I wouldn't say it is. I'd say its simply a mood of celebration at another cycling victory. I honestly don't think the British media care too much about what non-British readers think of stories like this.

I think triumphalism would suggest forcing their celebration on others and ensuring others know how well the Brits done and how great it all is...

They haven't done that though, you have chosen to tune into the British Broadcasting Corporation, or chosen to read the British newspapers etc.

As a result, I can't really agree that there is anything to your argument. If the former was true, I'd agree that it was bad form, but it's simply not!

donfers

bwatson wrote: »

Is it really triumphalism? I wouldn't say it is. I'd say its simply a mood of celebration at another cycling victory. I honestly don't think the British media care too much about what non-British readers think of stories like this.

I think triumphalism would suggest forcing their celebration on others and ensuring others know how well the Brits done and how great it all is...

They haven't done that though, you have chosen to tune into the British Broadcasting Corporation, or chosen to read the British newspapers etc.

As a result, I can't really agree that there is anything to your argument. If the former was true, I'd agree that it was bad form, but it's simply not!

as i've said the truimphalism is kind of, to be expected - best exemplified by the road race in which almost every interview/comment was aghast at how the big bad peloton didn't just surrender to a bunch sprint win for Cav


with regard to the hindes thing and also boxing victories for Joshua and Agogo the UK media have seemingly wilfully ignored the story here i.e. these victories were very dubious and just got caught up in the jingoism - if the olympics were in russia and russian boxers and cyclists had won in those exact circumstances i have little doubt the sneering and questioning and agenda would be completely different, hence the charge that the media is as hypocritical and propoganda-filled as many of the countries/venues they have criticised in the past - nobody should buy into the british fairplay myth anymore, they are just as desperate and one-eyed in the quest for glory as anyone else and will gladly shove the difficult questions to one side as long as the medals are gleaming in their direction

of course it's not very fashionable to question these things, as it's not part of the script and we are expected to put the objective analyses to one side and just shrug our shoulders and join in the party or be accused of anti-british bias or sour grapes or whatever which is a fallacious argument

no matter what the venue, country or sport as a sports fan all I expect is a fair competition and the event being played in the right spirit and if that's not the case we should speak out regardless of the fact that it might dampen the party mood

elduggo

bwatson wrote: »

Rather typical of the Irish Times isn't it? :rolleyes: Prefer to go with "The British are cheats" as the biggest story in their olympic section over "The British win gold and smash the team sprint WR"...

Is it typical? I don't know. Can you give another example of when they did this before?

bwatson

donfers wrote: »

as i've said the truimphalism is kind of, to be expected - best exemplified by the road race in which almost every interview/comment was aghast at how the big bad peloton didn't just surrender to a bunch sprint win for Cav


with regard to the hindes thing and also boxing victories for Joshua and Agogo the UK media have seemingly wilfully ignored the story here i.e. these victories were very dubious and just got caught up in the jingoism - if the olympics were in russia and russian boxers and cyclists had won in those exact circumstances i have little doubt the sneering and questioning and agenda would be completely different, hence the charge that the media is as hypocritical and propoganda-filled as many of the countries/venues they have criticised in the past - nobody should buy into the british fairplay myth anymore, they are just as desperate and one-eyed in the quest for glory as anyone else and will gladly shove the difficult questions to one side as long as the medals are gleaming in their direction

of course it's not very fashionable to question these things, as it's not part of the script and we are expected to put the objective analyses to one side and just shrug our shoulders and join in the party or be accused of anti-british bias or sour grapes or whatever which is a fallacious argument

no matter what the venue, country or sport as a sports fan all I expect is a fair competition and the event being played in the right spirit and if that's not the case we should speak out regardless of the fact that it might dampen the party mood

Again, as I said I don't think it is triumphalism. It is British celebration following British Olympic success. They haven't, so to speak, come to your back yard and started shouting out about how awesome and incredible (and any other superlative you wish) Great Britain are. You have tapped into the British media and are complaining about their domestic celebrations. There is no argument for this being triumphalism.

On the point about the boxing and the cycling, none of the officials boxing judges were British. I don't quite see why you would suggest there is a lack of British "fair play" involved in this case when the only thing British was the generic boxing venue.

As for the jingoism argument, thats absolutely nonsense and I don't think you understand what jingoism is. Its a domestic celebration of success in sport. That is not jingoism.

donfers

bwatson wrote: »

Again, as I said I don't think it is triumphalism.
It is British celebration following British Olympic success. They haven't, so to speak, come to your back yard and started shouting out about how awesome and incredible (and any other superlative you wish) Great Britain are. You have tapped into the British media and are complaining about their domestic celebrations. There is no argument for this being triumphalism.

On the point about the boxing and the cycling, none of the officials boxing judges were British. I don't quite see why you would suggest there is a lack of British "fair play" involved in this case when the only thing British was the generic boxing venue.

As for the jingoism argument, thats absolutely nonsense and I don't think you understand what jingoism is. Its a domestic celebration of success in sport. That is not jingoism.

I am sorry, it seems you don't understand the points I am making

you keep coming back to the truimphalism thing (i don't think you understand what it means in any case, however that's an argument of semantics which you seem to want to get into but which is completely pointless) - you are plainly wrong when you claim I am complaining about domestic celebrations

you are also wholly wrong I am afraid when you see the issue of judges from other countries contradicts any of the points I have made

please debate the points raised rather than using strawmen

bwatson

donfers wrote: »

I am sorry, it seems you don't understand the points I am making

you keep coming back to the truimphalism thing (i don't think you understand what it means in any case, however that's an argument of semantics which you seem to want to get into but which is completely pointless) - you are plainly wrong when you claim I am complaining about domestic celebrations

you are also wholly wrong I am afraid when you see the issue of judges from other countries contradicts any of the points I have made

please debate the points raised rather than using strawmen

It was you, and not I, who introduced the accusations of triumphalism and jingoism to this thread. Their definitions:

Triumphalism - the attitude or belief that a particular doctrine, religion, culture, or social system is superior to and should triumph over all others.

Jingoism - extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy.In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests.

These are the issues at hand in my view. Why? Because I believe you are totally wrong in your accusations and I find them fairly offensive. Anyway, I'm away to watch the BBC to enjoy the celebratory atmosphere.

Chips Lovell

It always surprises me that people tend to get upset about the British media covering something in the same way the Irish media would in similar circumstances.

donfers

bwatson wrote: »

It was you, and not I, who introduced the accusations of triumphalism and jingoism to this thread. Their definitions:

Triumphalism - the attitude or belief that a particular doctrine, religion, culture, or social system is superior to and should triumph over all others.

Jingoism - extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy.In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests.

These are the issues at hand in my view. Why? Because I believe you are totally wrong in your accusations and I find them fairly offensive. Anyway, I'm away to watch the BBC to enjoy the celebratory atmosphere.

well apologies for any offense caused, i am just calling it how i see it

in any case, i believe this phenomenon to be almost natural at this stage, people getting so caught up in the fervour they maybe don't acknowledge the occassional unsavoury stuff, i am sure if ireland ever hosted the olympics we would be the same and our media would behave in the same manner (if not worse)

donfers

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It always surprises me that people tend to get upset about the British media covering something in the same way the Irish media would in similar circumstances.

just because we would do the same doesn't make it right, if one believes something to be worthy of criticism then one should criticise

it is worth noting too that an irish medal or irish success on the world/olympic stage is far more rare than British success too so this common argument of comparing our reaction to theirs is not entirely valid

britain medal tally currently at 6 6 6 - surely a clear signal that they are up to no good

anyway apologies for sidetracking the debate here on the cycling thread

elduggo

bwatson wrote: »

It was you, and not I, who introduced the accusations of triumphalism and jingoism to this thread. Their definitions:

Triumphalism - the attitude or belief that a particular doctrine, religion, culture, or social system is superior to and should triumph over all others.

Jingoism - extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy.In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests.

These are the issues at hand in my view. Why? Because I believe you are totally wrong in your accusations and I find them fairly offensive. Anyway, I'm away to watch the BBC to enjoy the celebratory atmosphere.

Generalisation - a basic generalization that is accepted as true and that can be used as a basis for reasoning or conduct

You made accusations against the Irish Times. I'd love if you could back them up please.

ROK ON

Stop Press

Top class athlete does what it takes to win.


Seriously. Some of you folks need to take the purity lens off your glasses and maybe spend some time observing the real world.

donfers

ROK ON wrote: »

Stop Press

Top class athlete does what it takes to win.


Seriously. Some of you folks need to take the purity lens off your glasses and maybe spend some time observing the real world.

why were the badminton ladies kicked out then? they played within the rules

Chips Lovell

donfers wrote: »

why were the badminton ladies kicked out then? they played within the rules

They didn't actually. They were deemed to have broken two different rules.

Harrybelafonte

For those of you enjoying the track cycling in the Olympics, you could go to Sundrive tomorrow and watch the National Team Sprints for Men and Women and the Team Pursuits for same. The Men's Keirin Nationals are also on.

Details

le petit braquet

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

They didn't actually. They were deemed to have broken two different rules.

From what I read elsewhere, teams are entitled to a restart after a mishap, but mishap is not defined and following this particular "mishap" they are going to look again at the rule.

As ROK points out its hardly a surprise that he did the necessary, but what is a surprise is his naivete / stupidity / bravado in admitting to it!

The British Cycling statement about his comment being "lost in translation" is pretty funny too. He was speaking pretty good English (with a German accent) in response to questions in pretty good English (with a Scots accent) so maybe thats where the "translation" comes in!

AG2R

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

For those of you enjoying the track cycling in the Olympics, you could go to Sundrive tomorrow and watch the National Team Sprints for Men and Women and the Team Pursuits for same. The Men's Keirin Nationals are also on.

Details

thanks for his,will head down

morana

ROK ON wrote: »

Stop Press

Top class athlete does what it takes to win.


Seriously. Some of you folks need to take the purity lens off your glasses and maybe spend some time observing the real world.

Rubbish!

Lusk Doyle

For heaven's sake lads. Red m and m, blue m and m. They all end up the same. Why can't we simply accept that it's fine riding on display and enjoy it without the need/desire for negative comments. There are some real glass half empty views on display here. Forget the media, their perceived wrongs, your views on them and celebrate the athletes and the fruits of their labour. It's not a requirement to always find fault in the happenings of the world, is it?

Idleater

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

It's not a requirement to always find fault in the happenings of the world, is it?

True, but when the conversation around the lunch table from some non cyclists add that "cheat" to the badminton cheats to the stereotypical cycling doping, it's a tough task to convince everyone that it's all hunky dorey :-)

Inquitus

Team GB Smashing it, but for the DQ last night they could have won every gold so far on the track.

Lusk Doyle

Idleater wrote: »

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

It's not a requirement to always find fault in the happenings of the world, is it?

True, but when the conversation around the lunch table from some non cyclists add that "cheat" to the badminton cheats to the stereotypical cycling doping, it's a tough task to convince everyone that it's all hunky dorey :-)

Why do you feel the need to convince?

kumate_champ07

morana wrote: »

I think the tactic is shocking. And I dont agree its in the rules. if he crashed due to a mechanical or a bit of bit luck fair enough but to deliberately crash because he knew the start was bad is similar to what the badminton players did.

It is in the rules! the media made a big deal out of it (its not a well known sport as far as the rules are concerned) but any other country would have done it if they had a bad start with no objection by others, I was made aware of it a year ago. I dont think we have to come off the bike at Sundrive but for an international indoor event it would have to be contact with the ground to get a 'mechanical'.
I think its actually 2 bad starts your 'allowed', I had 1 last week during a team sprint, it was my shoe coming out of a pedal tho

Harrybelafonte

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Idleater wrote: »

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

It's not a requirement to always find fault in the happenings of the world, is it?

True, but when the conversation around the lunch table from some non cyclists add that "cheat" to the badminton cheats to the stereotypical cycling doping, it's a tough task to convince everyone that it's all hunky dorey :-)

Why do you feel the need to convince?

I certainly wouldn't bother. Sports fans and cycling fans are dissimilar creatures, though many seem to enjoy the drama surrounding the sport rather than the event itself.

In a few weeks time track cycling and all the other lesser known sports will be forgotten again by most of those discussing them now until the next Olympics. It's only entertainment for the majority.

No point arguing with them.

Roger Hassenforder

when you ladies are finished, can someone explain why the bike on the inside is in a frame thingy at the start ( team pursuit), and the outer ones held up by blokes?
just curious

fixie fox

Yea- forget about the media reaction and stick to the pure sport. They love a winner and the nationalistic stuff - e.g. "WE won a medal", or "so and so won a medal For Ireland (or GB or whatever)". Most of the public and journalists have no concept of what is involved in even qualifying for the Olympics. And, athletes do it for themselves, not their countries.
I think GB is making a great job of the games but I don't like all the military presence at opening and medal ceremonies etc.

kumate_champ07

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

when you ladies are finished, can someone explain why the bike on the inside is in a frame thingy at the start ( team pursuit), and the outer ones held up by blokes?
just curious

2 reasons, it would take too long to get the 3 machines off the track in time for lap 2

its a timed start so clock begins as soon as the clamp releases the bike, its usually attached to the seatpost, works on gas pressure. it wouldnt matter much if man 2 and man 3 started .1 second too early as they cant over take man 1 who starts in the gate.

RobFowl

donfers wrote: »

britain medal tally currently at 6 6 6 - surely a clear signal that they are up to no good

And Beasty is over there watching them :eek:

ThisRegard

Who cares about all the other crap, simple fact is that the GB teams have been awesome.

Lusk Doyle

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

when you ladies are finished, can someone explain why the bike on the inside is in a frame thingy at the start ( team pursuit), and the outer ones held up by blokes?
just curious

How do you know we are ladies and not men? Sexism now? This thread has it all!

Also, I dont know the answer to your question!

Harrybelafonte

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

when you ladies are finished, can someone explain why the bike on the inside is in a frame thingy at the start ( team pursuit), and the outer ones held up by blokes?
just curious

Afaik, it's do to with timing. Clock starts when first rider is released from gate and finishes when third rider (team pursuit) crosses the finish line