Cheats

HB2002

Was just wondering if people had any views or thoughts on all the cheating that goes on in golf?.

Over the last few years we have played a good few team events, opens and fundraisers and classics and there simply is no way on earth to win them because of the bandits that play them. We've decided not to play any of them anymore unless it's a course we really want to play.

I just think the GUI don't do enough to get after these people.
There are groups of people who travel around doing the classics circle and win all around them, I know some of these people and they all have official GUI handicaps if not genuine. They can win classic after classic and still hold on to their 18 handicap for the next classic.

What can be done?
Maybe you should have to play 5+ qualifying comps in your home club?
Maybe there should be an automatic 1 shot cut for winning team events?
Maybe there should be a standard scratch for team events?
Maybe the GUI should monitor peoples handicaps and question unusual trends in .1's being returned.

I don't know if other people get as pee'd off as I do about it would love to know.... sorry for the rant!

L.O.F.T

HB2002 wrote: »

Was just wondering if people had any views or thoughts on all the cheating that goes on in golf?.

Over the last few years we have played a good few team events, opens and fundraisers and classics and there simply is no way on earth to win them because of the bandits that play them. We've decided not to play any of them anymore unless it's a course we really want to play.

I just think the GUI don't do enough to get after these people.
There are groups of people who travel around doing the classics circle and win all around them, I know some of these people and they all have official GUI handicaps if not genuine. They can win classic after classic and still hold on to their 18 handicap for the next classic.

What can be done?
Maybe you should have to play 5+ qualifying comps in your home club?
Maybe there should be an automatic 1 shot cut for winning team events?
Maybe there should be a standard scratch for team events?
Maybe the GUI should monitor peoples handicaps and question unusual trends in .1's being returned.

I don't know if other people get as pee'd off as I do about it would love to know.... sorry for the rant!

Your frustration is clear however labelling people and teams cheats because they have won and you haven't is impetuous.

HB2002

I wasn't saying that every team event that we lost we were cheated out of.

I just mean that there are a lot of people out there that are playing in team comps and only team comps and are going around cleaning up and winning because they're not playing off a correct handicap.

You can play in 4 classics the next while with 3 of your mates
and win everyone of them... get yourself new golf bag new golf shoes whatever and your handicap wont be changed??.

There's an awful lot of it going on.
Or maybe it's just happening down here?

mike12

There was a similar thread a couple of months ago, i think the easy way would be for all events to be recorded on your GUI number. That way at least there is a record of all the events u have played in. Not sure how you get from there to cutting guys though.
We finished second in Mount Juilet last week shot 92 winners were 101 and we thought we had played well.
Mike

mike12

mike12 wrote: »

There was a similar thread a couple of months ago, i think the easy way would be for all events to be recorded on your GUI number. That way at least there is a record of all the events u have played in. Not sure how you get from there to cutting guys though.
We finished second in Mount Juilet last week shot 92 winners were 101 and we thought we had played well.
Mike

What is overkill?

mike12

Davidian_ie wrote: »

What is overkill?

What?

irishtoffee

Surely if the same lads are winning them all the time they will be cut on General Play?

It's a saying we have in our club when individuals bring in a cricket score to win an event. It is basically referring to their calculated target to secure victory. Any score approaching 10pts better than the field raises a suspicion and usually we refer to it as an overkill on their estimate of winning score. Maybe they are just bad at maths. A friend of mine played with a guy noted for being a prolific winner in our club lately and he told me that the guy just genuinely could not count beyond 4 when putting in his scores on each hole. He had to go through each shot with him to convince him that he had more than he was putting down.

downthemiddle

irishtoffee wrote: »

Surely if the same lads are winning them all the time they will be cut on General Play?

There are two problems arising with team events at the moment.
Clubs are not following their obligations and passing results on to home clubs. We had a situation recently with a golfer who has featured on a number of occasions in team events. However a three month delay in reporting results is unacceptable.
Players are failing to report all performances to their home clubs. This is a serious breach of the player's responsibility and can lead to the suspension of handicaps.

mike12

The problem with reporting team events is that how do u get cut in the 92 points we had in mount juilet we had one guy play to his handicap the rest of us just didn't make 30 points. It would be very harsh to get cut on that basis. If u are winning some where every second week than fair enough.

MP62

HB2002 wrote: »

Was just wondering if people had any views or thoughts on all the cheating that goes on in golf?.

Over the last few years we have played a good few team events, opens and fundraisers and classics and there simply is no way on earth to win them because of the bandits that play them. We've decided not to play any of them anymore unless it's a course we really want to play.

I just think the GUI don't do enough to get after these people.
There are groups of people who travel around doing the classics circle and win all around them, I know some of these people and they all have official GUI handicaps if not genuine. They can win classic after classic and still hold on to their 18 handicap for the next classic.

What can be done?
Maybe you should have to play 5+ qualifying comps in your home club?
Maybe there should be an automatic 1 shot cut for winning team events?
Maybe there should be a standard scratch for team events?
Maybe the GUI should monitor peoples handicaps and question unusual trends in .1's being returned.

I don't know if other people get as pee'd off as I do about it would love to know.... sorry for the rant!

No other people don't get pissed off it's just you.
Cheats should be encouraged to play golf, without cheats there is no income for clubs and therefore no future in golf. Endof.

HB2002

MP62 wrote: »

No other people don't get pissed off it's just you.
Cheats should be encouraged to play golf, without cheats there is no income for clubs and therefore future in golf. Endof.

Thats such a stupid thing to say.

It ends up costing clubs money because people decide not to play in the competitions anymore. If you encourage cheats and do nothing about trying to sort it out then people will stop playing.

Our club run an annual fundraising comp over a weekend, 4 man team event with a holiday voucher for the main prize. The first year it was run it was won by a team who all played off 16ish, as far as I can remember 1 of them had been the all Ireland P&P champion. they won it by a mile, the second year they came back down to play again and when they were told they would all be playing off 6 ( The GUI confirmed you can make players play off whatever handicap you deem fit for your competition ) they decided not to play in it, it was won that year by another team who entered wrong scores, the club had spotters around the course and when challenged about it said they made a mistake and were disqualified.

There's two types of cheaters.
The ones who use a magic pencil and they ones who play off inflated handicaps on purpose.

HB2002

mike12 wrote: »

The problem with reporting team events is that how do u get cut in the 92 points we had in mount juilet we had one guy play to his handicap the rest of us just didn't make 30 points. It would be very harsh to get cut on that basis. If u are winning some where every second week than fair enough.

I know it's a bit harsh in team events to get cut when you might have had a stinker but something will have to be done. I've been in the same boat where one or two people in a team carry the team but, I'd be happy to be cut if we beat CSS on the day even if I played badly.

diarmuid05

I wonder if there would be any interest in a scratch AM-AM.

Clearly at the moment low handicappers are wasting their time playing in team events.
But what if it was turned on its head and everybody played off scratch, then the advantage turns to low handicappers (OR High handicappers that are capable of playing off low handicaps)

Its' just a suggestion.
I realize most high handicappers just wouldn't bother , but it's the other side of the same coin.

Russman

This subject has been beaten to death.

I think there's a few schools of thought at play, slightly exaggerating of course.........

One is that more or less anyone who wins a prize with a big score nowadays is some sort of handicap cheat (this view is increasingly common for some reason).

Another is that team events are not to be taken too seriously and, sure its expected that the bandits will win them.

IMO the truth is somewhere in the middle.
No matter what system is used, human nature being what it is, you will always get people trying to "cheat" or gain an advantage. Its impossible to come up with a workable system that will eliminate this altogether, without ruining the enjoyment of the vast majority who play the game and are not cheats.

If you make it too onerous to enter and play in team events you will kill off a major source of funds for clubs, yet at the same time we can probably all name the teams that will be in the top 3 before play even begins. Clubs are caught between a rock and a hard place to a certain extent.

To be honest I think I come down on the side of team events / classics not to be taken too seriously and I rarely play in them.

mike12

I'd be in the same boat we would only play them to play the course at a cheaper rate, 1 2nd place prize out of 30/40 goes would suggest we are not bandits but one day it will all come togetger. Playing 4 perons team or scramble or 4 ball with your mates is often more enjoyable than playinf singles on a course you have never played before so that is just the way we se it. It would be nice if around 90 points won or was in the prizes as i think that is a great score for a 4 person team.
Mike

newport2

I know it's a cliche, but when I play, I play the course.

I would far sooner get 40 points and come 5th than get 34 and win. The prize for me is getting my handicap cut, not winning.

How other players play on any particular day is too much of a variable to use as a benchmark for myself, in my opinion anyway. Generally the CSS will give me a good idea of how I did.

HB2002

newport2 wrote: »

I know it's a cliche, but when I play, I play the course.

I would far sooner get 40 points and come 5th than get 34 and win. The prize for me is getting my handicap cut, not winning.

How other players play on any particular day is too much of a variable to use as a benchmark for myself, in my opinion anyway. Generally the CSS will give me a good idea of how I did.

I agree with you, when I play all I'm trying to do is beat CSS and get my handicap down, if I do that then I may or may not get in the prizes but I'm happy.
If someone keeps shooting big scores in singles their handicap will reflect it....my problem is really with team competitions and people not getting cut for going around and playing all the classics and team events they can and their handicaps staying the same.

Russman

HB2002 wrote: »

people not getting cut for going around and playing all the classics and team events they can and their handicaps staying the same.

Is that a reflection of the system or the players though ?

I think its best to not worry about people who play golf solely to accumulate prizes, let them at it, and enjoy your own game.

HB2002

Russman wrote: »

Is that a reflection of the system or the players though ?

I think its best to not worry about people who play golf solely to accumulate prizes, let them at it, and enjoy your own game.

I think it's a combination of the two.
The system currently can't cater for people who use team events and mind their handicaps so that they play off 3 or 4 ( sometimes a lot more ) shots better than they should.

Ignoring the problem though just means it'll get worse.... the GUI have done that for years now.

One thing that could be done is to force club golfers to play 10(?) qualifying competitions on their home course for their handicap to be valid the following year. It would help to sort the problem of people joining golf clubs for 100 quid getting an inflated handicap and never playing single comps which would drop their handicaps down.

Dtoffee

Cheats will always exist, it compensates for their lack of talent .... however I have a big issue with their playing partners.

They sign a card knowing it is incorrect.

They do not question a score they know to be dubious.

They suffer temporary blindness around fudging.

They congratulate, enable and assist cheaters ...... they are as guilty as te cheater.

If you see or suspect cheating, it is your duty to confront it regardless of the excuses or consequences. Golf is a game of trust and requires all players to be honest in their play and scorekeeping, I have refused to sign cards in a society on several occasions due to obvious cheating.

If cheating is to be challenged, its must start with the cheaters playing partners.

Russman

HB2002 wrote: »

One thing that could be done is to force club golfers to play 10(?) qualifying competitions on their home course for their handicap to be valid the following year. It would help to sort the problem of people joining golf clubs for 100 quid getting an inflated handicap and never playing single comps which would drop their handicaps down.

But would that risk driving players away from the game altogether ? If someone joins a club 150 miles away because its all he can afford, making him travel down 10 times just to keep a handicap might mean he doesn't bother playing at all. I think you have to draw the line somewhere TBH.

Its a problem, but I really don't think its a big problem in the greater scheme of things. There aren't THAT many team events compared to singles comps.

mike12

Russman wrote: »

But would that risk driving players away from the game altogether ? If someone joins a club 150 miles away because its all he can afford, making him travel down 10 times just to keep a handicap might mean he doesn't bother playing at all. I think you have to draw the line somewhere TBH.

Its a problem, but I really don't think its a big problem in the greater scheme of things. There aren't THAT many team events compared to singles comps.

Forcing someone to play 10 times is not the answer if they are minding their handicap them all that will do is give them 10 chances to add .1 on to their score so no point really.

mike12

Hi,
Maybe we should start a thread with all the team event results we can find most are posted on line somewhere. See if we can find any names that are popping up all the time.
Mike

titleist91

Dtoffee wrote: »

Cheats will always exist, it compensates for their lack of talent .... however I have a big issue with their playing partners.

They sign a card knowing it is incorrect.

They do not question a score they know to be dubious.

They suffer temporary blindness around fudging.

They congratulate, enable and assist cheaters ...... they are as guilty as te cheater.

If you see or suspect cheating, it is your duty to confront it regardless of the excuses or consequences. Golf is a game of trust and requires all players to be honest in their play and scorekeeping, I have refused to sign cards in a society on several occasions due to obvious cheating.

If cheating is to be challenged, its must start with the cheaters playing partners.

Easier said than done in my opinion.I was playing in the Leinster Youths last year when one of my playing partners hit his ball right towards what I thought was in the hazard. Myself and my other playing partner both helped walk a patch of rough 5 yards wide to look for his ball in light rough. We looked for about 4 minutes when he says go ahead and play ahead I will keep looking. We both turn our backs and within 10 seconds of walking towards our balls he shouts " Found it lads". Me and my other playing partner looked at each other as if to say no way. I asked him if he knew what ball the guy was playing but netheir of us remembered. We were 99.9% sure he had dropped the ball as there was no way it was there. As we had no proof that he had done it we were left saying to each oher what can we do. When he declared his ball we both let it go over our heads as it does with nearly everybody when your playing partner says it on the first. You can't go around saying he cheated when you arent 100% sure. There are situations where you know someone cheated but can't so a thing because you arent sure. So am I as bad as the guy who dropped the ball? I think not. How could I refuse tosign his card aswell the GUI would ask me why I wouldnt and they would ask if I had proof which I didnt have. So as a result of this you are saying I am as bad as him which is not true.

ronjo

These really are horrible threads.

I am a member in Slovakia of a course and everything is centralised here. Your handicap isnt a Club handicap but a Slovak Handicap.
I have never once heard of anyone trying to keep their handicaps up to win a prize.
Magic pencils probably do exist here but everyone just wants to either enjoy their game or improve their handicap as far as I can see.

fatherbuzcagney

Could the gui stop this sh1t any allow just one classic prize per year per player and that would weed out the bandits fairly quick.

Dtoffee

titleist91 wrote: »

How could I refuse to sign his card as well the GUI would ask me why I wouldnt and they would ask if I had proof which I didnt have. So as a result of this you are saying I am as bad as him which is not true.

Your situation is not uncommon and I would describe it as a suspicion of cheating and nothing more (you did not know if he dropped a ball or not). We all have been there, when an opponent suddenly finds his ball once your back is turned. The solution is to only walk away once you have clarified the situation ie ... 'are you deeming your ball lost?'.

Should you play with this guy again, I have no doubt you would not turn your back so easily ..... but not everyone does.

Freemount09

The GUI need to do something alright and also the powers to be in the clubs too.

At the last AGM of munster branch was a motion put to limit the number of 0.1's you could claim in a year to 20 but this was defeated prob cause they were worried they'd lose out on revenue from these bandits paying entry fees to get their 0.1's.

I've heard stories about people not returning cards cause they'd get cut and wouldn't be eligble to play on certain teams etc. handicap sec's can only act on cards they receive, I think all NR's should get cut 0.1 rather than get 0.1 back.

Limit the prizes on offer or keep track of the members of these teams that are winning all around them. The clubs and the GUI need to address this issue cause the game is based on honesty and ethics but like most things the minority are ruining it for everyone.

leedslunatic

titleist91 wrote: »

There are situations where you know someone cheated but can't so a thing because you arent sure..

No offence, but isn't that kinda a contradiction?

It's the nature of the game, it's not gona change. The game relies on the honesty of the players, and I like it for that reason.

Cheats will not be found out unless 1) they are caught or 2) they admit cheating.

Maybe it's just my opinion but sometimes I find golfers are too concerned with other golfers, and very quick to label people as cheaters when they don't really know for sure.

HB2002

Because golf is a game of honour and trust there is very little you can do personally about cheaters unless you actually catch someone at it, these scenarios would tend to be one offs and can only be dealt with there and then with you saying it or not signing a card or whatever. Cheating on a bigger scale though where people are playing off a handicap that is 4 or 5 shots higher than it should be and are going around playing in team competitions winning prizes all over the place and their high handicaps remain untouched. there has to be something that can be done about that.

Maybe like in Slovakia the handicaps should be maintained centrally by the GUI or Congu or some body that can look at all results that come in and apply general play cuts for team events. That in itself would stop some of the blatant cheating that goes on.

The handicap system as it is doesn't work because it's too easily manipulated by people who want to manufacture their handicaps.

mike12

HB2002 wrote: »

Because golf is a game of honour and trust there is very little you can do personally about cheaters unless you actually catch someone at it, these scenarios would tend to be one offs and can only be dealt with there and then with you saying it or not signing a card or whatever. Cheating on a bigger scale though where people are playing off a handicap that is 4 or 5 shots higher than it should be and are going around playing in team competitions winning prizes all over the place and their high handicaps remain untouched. there has to be something that can be done about that.

Maybe like in Slovakia the handicaps should be maintained centrally by the GUI or Congu or some body that can look at all results that come in and apply general play cuts for team events. That in itself would stop some of the blatant cheating that goes on.

The handicap system as it is doesn't work because it's too easily manipulated by people who want to manufacture their handicaps.

The problem is that u don't have to sign in with your GUI number at most of these open days, it has to be a simple thing to set up the comp so that u have to swipe in on your GUI card then a record can be sent to your home club.
There are a lot of guys playing in open days with old GUI numbers and cards or using a mates, a lot of them just do it to get the cheap green fee and never return a score but most clubs u can walk in and sign a book to enter the comp and never have to give anything bar the name of a club.
We played in Beaverstown a couple of years ago in a 4 ball the guys we were playing with had 47 points we had 44 i got a call to go back for the prize presentation to see the guys were not there and had never handed in there card?
Mike

TheDoc

Basically you cannot do anything due to defamation of character and libel.

Clubs simply cannot get people to go out and play and mark other people card.

That in itself is technical slander

Almaviva

TheDoc wrote: »

Clubs simply cannot get people to go out and play and mark other people card.

¿Che?

People marking other people(s) card is the norm.

HB2002

mike12 wrote: »

Forcing someone to play 10 times is not the answer if they are minding their handicap them all that will do is give them 10 chances to add .1 on to their score so no point really.

but the idea behind that is not to stop people who mind their handicap or build it up say coming up to Captains Prize but for people who join somewhere for 120 quid to get a GUI handicap and then never play singles comp where they might get cut but do the team circuit and clean up.

It would of course hit people who join for the 120 quid for financial reasons so possibly not the solution.

dak

I personally have to disagree somewhat with this statement . I for one don't try to mind my handicap . In fact I am trying in vain to get in down at the moment. I have played in 11 opens this year and unfortunately have got .1 back every time.

My problem is that in nearly every open this year I have scratched 4 or 5 holes with my worst round of 9 points ( due to injury) and a best of 31. Playing of the whites in opens makes every course just that bit harder for high handicappers like myself. I also find when you are paired with low handicappers who are having a great day and you duff a few shots it ruins your confidence on the day.

In the last 3 months I have tried to play at least once a week rather than once every 4 weeks and I am hoping that plenty of practice will eliminate those scratches.

mike12 wrote: »

Forcing someone to play 10 times is not the answer if they are minding their handicap them all that will do is give them 10 chances to add .1 on to their score so no point really.

HB2002

dak wrote: »

I personally have to disagree somewhat with this statement . I for one don't try to mind my handicap . In fact I am trying in vain to get in down at the moment. I have played in 11 opens this year and unfortunately have got .1 back every time.

My problem is that in nearly every open this year I have scratched 4 or 5 holes with my worst round of 9 points ( due to injury) and a best of 31. Playing of the whites in opens makes every course just that bit harder for high handicappers like myself. I also find when you are paired with low handicappers who are having a great day and you duff a few shots it ruins your confidence on the day.

In the last 3 months I have tried to play at least once a week rather than once every 4 weeks and I am hoping that plenty of practice will eliminate those scratches.

None of the comments in this thread are directed at genuine golfers like yourself..... You're going out and playing and if you have a bad day or bad patch then of course you're going to get .1's back and absolutely thats the right thing to happen. The thing is there are golfers out there who go out with the intention of getting .1's back so they can get to a handicap they know they can win a comp off.

Best of luck with getting the .1's back off !
I guarantee you playing once a week instead of once a month will help.

mikeystipey

Freemount09 wrote: »

I think all NR's should get cut 0.1 rather than get 0.1 back.

I agree with this, I think its strange that people get .1 back for NR's. Might be difficult to actually cut people by .1 but why not reach a happy medium and just leave their handicap as it is.

mikeystipey

I only have a proper GUI handicap since last year and play mostly singles and not many team events but from the one or two I have played I think you have to specify on the card which player or players had the counting scores on each hole, am I right? If so then couldn't the handicap secretary could study the cards and see who contributed most, e.g. if a 17 handicapper had 8 pars I think thats good play and he should be cut a few 0.3's. Just a thought anyway

Russman

mikeystipey wrote: »

I only have a proper GUI handicap since last year and play mostly singles and not many team events but from the one or two I have played I think you have to specify on the card which player or players had the counting scores on each hole, am I right? If so then couldn't the handicap secretary could study the cards and see who contributed most, e.g. if a 17 handicapper had 8 pars I think thats good play and he should be cut a few 0.3's. Just a thought anyway

The two issues with that are:
A) most h/cap secs haven't the time or inclination to do that. It's usually a voluntary position and rightly or wrongly, most have better things to do than scrutinise team event cards.
and
you can't cut someone based on a few holes. Nobody who shoots to their handicap will do it based on the "ideal" formula, ie say a 12 h/capper having pars on indexes 13-18 and single bogeys on indexes 1-12. Most of his cards will have a random mix of birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles etc adding up to his 12 over. It's simply not right to base a cut on a few pars he/she had IMO. You can't disregard the bad holes someone has in the course of a round.

I still reckon taking team events for what they are, a distraction from singles and a bit of craic, and enjoy your own game is the best approach. There never has been or never will be a perfect system that isn't abused, so guys getting worked up about the results in these "classics" are IMO wasting their time.

Besides all that, sometimes you can have a great team score with nobody playing particularly well if the team dovetails nicely.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

you can't cut someone based on a few holes. Nobody who shoots to their handicap will do it based on the "ideal" formula, ie say a 12 h/capper having pars on indexes 13-18 and single bogeys on indexes 1-12. Most of his cards will have a random mix of birdies, pars, bogeys, doubles etc adding up to his 12 over. It's simply not right to base a cut on a few pars he/she had IMO. You can't disregard the bad holes someone has in the course of a round.

I think you can and should though.
Your handicap should reflect your potential just as much as your "average" recent scores. Thats the purpose of the clause 19 adjustment. You could hit 15 pars and have 3 bad shots in a round and come in 10 over. I dont think your handicap should be 10, it should reflect the fact that you are able to par over 80% of the holes.

Russman wrote: »

Besides all that, sometimes you can have a great team score with nobody playing particularly well if the team dovetails nicely.

Totally agree. Lots of people see 43 points winning something (even singles) and automatically assume "bandit". But with that many people playing you are always going to get a couple of outliers. Its even more likely to be a good score in a team event (hence the use of reduced handicaps)
How come nobody is shocked when a fella off 5 comes in 15 over?

Ryan29

I play off 17 and won a team event and came 3rd twice. I have been cut from 19 to 17 in the last month for singles competitions but not for the team events. Why is this?

TheDoc

Ryan29 wrote: »

I play off 17 and won a team event and came 3rd twice. I have been cut from 19 to 17 in the last month for singles competitions but not for the team events. Why is this?

You cannot be cut for team events, only singles competitions.

MP62

TheDoc wrote: »

You cannot be cut for team events, only singles competitions.

That's in correct, while there is no automatic system in place for team events, that does not mean you can't be cut.

Ryan29

Do i have to do anything to be cut?

MP62

Ryan29 wrote: »

Do i have to do anything to be cut?

If the team events were not at your home course then you have to report the score, there should be a sheet on the mens notice board where you can fill out the details of your away team score and also your away (not covered by golfnet) individual scores e.g. society scores.

kilbaha

I've always felt that as long as the individual has the ability to manipulate his handicap to his advantage, then, human nature being what it is, many will do it. This is what leads to cheating and it's a problem that won't be solved until that aspect of the handicap system is addressed.
I propose a simple solution to the team specialists - every golfer should have two separate handicaps, one for single competitions, another for teams/fourballs/foursomes etc. If you play in a singles competition, the current system applies. If you feature as part of a team, then your 4-ball handicap is cut. One 0.1 back for every ten failures to feature in team competitions. Any feature results in your 4-ball handicap get cut. No fractional cuts.
Just an idea.

Oilbeefhooked!

Was recently told by a fellow ,I sometimes tee it up with- that he knows of a club in his home co. in Munster , that ,will on county/distance memberships give out a handicap of your choice over the phone, without having to play the three rounds.(I guess they just forge the cards for you)
Now he wouldn't give me club name so this is merely here say as I have no foundation to these claims.
But , if this is the case and financially struggling clubs are at this scam to up the coffers-then what chance do handicap secretaries up and down the country really have :0(
Again , please don't ask me for anymore details as I have none, other than this guy swears this is true and knows guys in Dublin who have benefitted from it!!!
Very sad state of affairs if it really is going on, I really hope he's talking out his hole but was very convincing :-(

MP62

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

Was recently told by a fellow ,I sometimes tee it up with- that he knows of a club in his home co. in Munster , that ,will on county/distance memberships give out a handicap of your choice over the phone, without having to play the three rounds.(I guess they just forge the cards for you)
Now he wouldn't give me club name so this is merely here say as I have no foundation to these claims.
But , if this is the case and financially struggling clubs are at this scam to up the coffers-then what chance do handicap secretaries up and down the country really have :0(
Again , please don't ask me for anymore details as I have none, other than this guy swears this is true and knows guys in Dublin who have benefitted from it!!!
Very sad state of affairs if it really is going on, I really hope he's talking out his hole but was very convincing :-(

If like you say that is going on then IMO your "friend" is even worse than the offending club if he knows of the wrong doing and does nothing about it, yet he's quite happy to yap away like the man to his friends about it.

taylorconor95

There's also another thing about team events (but maybe I'm only saying this as a guy desperately trying to get cut):

I play off 8 and play loads of singles comps. When a team event comes around, I relax waaay more and just enjoy it, and end up shooting 2 over or something crazy, because I'm not keeping count or caring about my own score.

Now imagine the same with a 20 handicapper. With more margin for improvement, if he shoots +10, it turns into an amazing score for the team.

Thats why I always think the solution for team events is two 'steady eddies' of max 5, and then two guys off around 20. Just a thought.

Oilbeefhooked!

MP62 wrote: »

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

Was recently told by a fellow ,I sometimes tee it up with- that he knows of a club in his home co. in Munster , that ,will on county/distance memberships give out a handicap of your choice over the phone, without having to play the three rounds.(I guess they just forge the cards for you)
Now he wouldn't give me club name so this is merely here say as I have no foundation to these claims.
But , if this is the case and financially struggling clubs are at this scam to up the coffers-then what chance do handicap secretaries up and down the country really have :0(
Again , please don't ask me for anymore details as I have none, other than this guy swears this is true and knows guys in Dublin who have benefitted from it!!!
Very sad state of affairs if it really is going on, I really hope he's talking out his hole but was very convincing :-(

If like you say that is going on then IMO your "friend" is even worse than the offending club if he knows of the wrong doing and does nothing about it, yet he's quite happy to yap away like the man to his friends about it.

I agree with what you say and maybe I shouldn't have posted it as there is no real basis for it.hes just a lad I met on the course and have played a few rounds with.
He would need a good bit of evidence and names involved were he to go to the GUI about it though!
Just wanted to put it out there that there is rumours of this kinda scam goin on!!
Hope it is just that - a tale that has passed down the grapevine, but these thing usually have a small bit of truth behind them!!??