Heartsick and helpless; dogs

Graces7

We trade once a week at a free market in a small village. A very .. inbred place... As blow ins we have to tread carefully..

There are a number of local dogs running loose, and the road through is very busy.

One large long haired lab last year was seen mating with a local bitch in the street last year and was exiled after that... None of these are neutered.

Some of the tourists comment on this. Thinking they are strays... Hard to explain. One said re the lovely boxer who races around that he had healing cuts and I saw these today; deep scars on his side so probably hit by a car...

Today a chocolate lab boy adopted us. Sat at our feet, head in my lap... seeking affection. He had no collar but the mark of one on his neck.

He was not starving thankfully; we offered food of course. Two tourists petted him and he rolled over in delight .. lovely boy..

I mentioned him to another stallholder.. "oh he;s local, And he is very well cared for..."

I bit my tongue hard. Yeah right! Running loose in heavy traffic...no collar... Such GOOD CARE!

Sometimes I hate this country. Beautiful dogs, endangered. I see them playing russian roulette with the traffic.

Shazanne

There are many, many reasons to hate this country and many of the people in it when it comes to animal cruelty:( I am often left broken hearted by what I see and hear. I pray for these animals every single day - I only wish I could do more.

LordSutch

Was at county Wicklow beach recently and was appaled to see a young boy (about ten or twelve) wade out into the surf and throw a little terrier up in the air and out to sea, the terrier landed, sank, and then reappeard trying to swim ashore, only to be caught by the boy who did the same again!! My blood was now boiling and I stood up trying to see who the boy was with and what I could do to stop this cruelty, the wife told me to sit down and not to get involved, but I couldn't relax, then just before it happened for a third time I heard myself giving out an almighty shout "oy stop that now, leave that dog alone" the boy looked at me and put the dog down. Then I saw the parents who had been laughing at what was going on (ignorant tossers) so I thought that's it, I've really had enough and I marched right over to confront the Mum, Dad and the teenage son. I said you cannot sit there and allow your son to do that, its cruel to the Dog, its not good for its ears, and its scaring him! and if you don't stop it from happening again I will call the Guards. They looked at me slightly confused, then the teenage son muttered sorry mister, so I walked away slowly hoping that that was the end of it - and it was thank God. It was only when I sat down that I realised that I could have got into an awful row with the family (thankfully it didn't escallate), but for the Dog's sake I am really glad that I interveined that day, maybe the boy will think twice next time he's tempted to throw the dog.

Tranceypoo

Shazanne wrote: »

There are many, many reasons to hate this country and many of the people in it when it comes to animal cruelty:( I am often left broken hearted by what I see and hear. I pray for these animals every single day - I only wish I could do more.

I feel exactly the same, sometimes when I'm driving along or going somewhere new, I pray I won't see a stray on the road or running the streets, I've really had it up to here with the attitude to dogs in this country.

Graces7

It is the sheer and utter ignorance of these people.

A few weeks ago, as I was about three miles from the village I wrote of yesterday, I saw a man who walks his collie along that road each day.

Only this time he had a wee colllie puppy on the lead.. Still fluffy it was. Three miles and more out on the road.

I stopped and chatted.. " Getting him used to the road.." I tried to gently dissuade him but that was all I got. Wee puppy was longing to be cuddled and played with but he pulled it away.

By the time he got back to the village I had set the stall up and again I met him.. Puppy by now, walked for over 6 miles, was exhausted and trying to sit down and wanted to be held. I remonstrated to no avail.

But he has never walked his dogs through the village again, at least not on market days. And I have never, ever seen the puppy again.

That wee dogs' life would be to be shut in a shed or chained outside. Full of love it was, wee fluffy baby

forestfruits

Im quite new to this dog owning thing- we ended up with a 4 month old jack russell cross at Christmas- unwanted gift- long story.

Hes doesnt like the water and Ive been trying to get him used to the sea as he walks the beach pretty much daily- at least the barking at the waves has subsided!

I was advised the other day by a dog owner that I should bring him to the pier and throw him in and hed get over his fear!!

Now Im no dog expert but I was a bit shocked- needless to say I didnt take the advice!

Graces7

LordSutch wrote: »

Was at county Wicklow beach recently and was appaled to see a young boy (about ten or twelve) wade out into the surf and throw a little terrier up in the air and out to sea, the terrier landed, sank, and then reappeard trying to swim ashore, only to be caught by the boy who did the same again!! My blood was now boiling and I stood up trying to see who the boy was with and what I could do to stop this cruelty, the wife told me to sit down and not to get involved, but I couldn't relax, then just before it happened for a third time I heard myself giving out an almighty shout "oy stop that now, leave that dog alone" the boy looked at me and put the dog down. Then I saw the parents who had been laughing at what was going on (ignorant tossers) so I thought that's it, I've really had enough and I marched right over to confront the Mum, Dad and the teenage son. I said you cannot sit there and allow your son to do that, its cruel to the Dog, its not good for its ears, and its scaring him! and if you don't stop it from happening again I will call the Guards. They looked at me slightly confused, then the teenage son muttered sorry mister, so I walked away slowly hoping that that was the end of it - and it was thank God. It was only when I sat down that I realised that I could have got into an awful row with the family (thankfully it didn't escallate), but for the Dog's sake I am really glad that I interveined that day, maybe the boy will think twice next time he's tempted to throw the dog.

Well done indeed; takes courage does that!

Tranceypoo

forestfruits wrote: »

Im quite new to this dog owning thing- we ended up with a 4 month old jack russell cross at Christmas- unwanted gift- long story.

Hes doesnt like the water and Ive been trying to get him used to the sea as he walks the beach pretty much daily- at least the barking at the waves has subsided!

I was advised the other day by a dog owner that I should bring him to the pier and throw him in and hed get over his fear!!

Now Im no dog expert but I was a bit shocked- needless to say I didnt take the advice!

:eek: Unbelievable. Seriously.

The definition of a 'good dog owner' seems to be someone who feeds their dog. That seems to be the only requirement. Even on some of the dog rescue pages on FB, some of the comments are so ignorant and these are from people who bothered to 'like' a rescue page and look at the updates, so you would think understand the stray dog/overpopulation situation, yet they still comment about 'letting the dog off for a wander, sure all dogs need to wander don't they' (I actually read this comment once a good few months ago now), I truly despair.

Indricotherium

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

maggiepip

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

Its ignorance like yours people are talking about. Dogs love to swim - dogs do not love to be thrown around in the air out to sea - terrified and struggling to swim back in only to be thrown out again. Dogs love to walk, they do not love to be walked so far they are struggling to keep up.

Did you know humans domesticated dogs? Do you know what domesticating an animal means? It means their little brain in not fulfilled unless they are in some way included in a humans life - they crave attention and love, they need kindness, understanding and compassion.

Your post makes me angry - as if throwing a dog into the sea is the same as a dog swimming. Honestly. And how dare you insinuate kind caring people are creepy.:mad:

OldNotWIse

LordSutch wrote: »

Was at county Wicklow beach recently and was appaled to see a young boy (about ten or twelve) wade out into the surf and throw a little terrier up in the air and out to sea, the terrier landed, sank, and then reappeard trying to swim ashore, only to be caught by the boy who did the same again!! My blood was now boiling and I stood up trying to see who the boy was with and what I could do to stop this cruelty, the wife told me to sit down and not to get involved, but I couldn't relax, then just before it happened for a third time I heard myself giving out an almighty shout "oy stop that now, leave that dog alone" the boy looked at me and put the dog down. Then I saw the parents who had been laughing at what was going on (ignorant tossers) so I thought that's it, I've really had enough and I marched right over to confront the Mum, Dad and the teenage son. I said you cannot sit there and allow your son to do that, its cruel to the Dog, its not good for its ears, and its scaring him! and if you don't stop it from happening again I will call the Guards. They looked at me slightly confused, then the teenage son muttered sorry mister, so I walked away slowly hoping that that was the end of it - and it was thank God. It was only when I sat down that I realised that I could have got into an awful row with the family (thankfully it didn't escallate), but for the Dog's sake I am really glad that I interveined that day, maybe the boy will think twice next time he's tempted to throw the dog.

he'll proabbly grow up to be a serial killer. Fcuking brat I would have belted him

hate this country when it comes to animal rights issues

On the one hand we have desperate upper working class morons spending hundreds on genetic mutants in some sort of pathetic status chase, and on the other we have strays and thousands of dogs being euthanaised every week because there are no homes for them and people are so ignorant re neutering. I work for an animal welfare clinic and you should hear some of the responses to "is your dog spayed or neutered?"
- What's that?
- A Jaysis I couldnt do that to 'im
-yeah he was done last year would he need it done again?
- no but he has his kennel cough vacc
-no bc he's male (this one really gets to me, like they dont care if someone elses bitch gets stuck with 8 pups)

FFS

A big problem is the justice system - skin an animal alive and set fire to it and you get a slap on the wrist. There's no deterrent for moronic psychos who want to hurt a defencless animal.

OldNotWIse

maggiepip wrote: »

Its ignorance like yours people are talking about. Dogs love to swim - dogs do not love to be thrown around in the air out to sea - terrified and struggling to swim back in only to be thrown out again. Dogs love to walk, they do not love to be walked so far they are struggling to keep up.

Did you know humans domesticated dogs? Do you know what domesticating an animal means? It means their little brain in not fulfilled unless they are in some way included in a humans life - they crave attention and love, they need kindness, understanding and compassion.

Your post makes me angry - as if throwing a dog into the sea is the same as a dog swimming. Honestly. And how dare you insinuate kind caring people are creepy.:mad:

I agree. My dog nearly died last year (and me too when I rescued her) when she fell into a river. She physically could not swim. After, I "taught" her how to swim in case she fell in again, for her own sake but I felt like an evil wench. I went out into about 8 inches of water with her (with a lifejacket for her) and held her tummy while I lowered her into the water and let her swim back to shore (where mom2 was waiting and cheering of course) and it was only about 6 ft from the edge. The second time, she started doing swimming motions with her legs before I put her in, so I know now for sure that at least if she does fall in somewhere, she will (hopefully) not panic and be able to find her way out. Even though I did this for her own good I still felt like an evil bitch. Now she has slightly more confidence though, and on a warm day she will go in herself at the edge and splash around with stones etc. Also if she sees other dogs she will venture out a little, though I am constantly behind her and panicking lol

The dog I had b4 was a real water baby and I just assumed all dogs were the same and inherently knew how to swim but some dont. I'd die if anything happened to my little sidekick

I swear I would have reported that family of degenerates if I had been there.

OldNotWIse

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

No. "Creepy" is a teenager getting sick kicks from terrorising a small animal, and his idiot parents condoning it.

Indricotherium

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

No. "Creepy" is a teenager getting sick kicks from terrorising a small animal, and his idiot parents condoning it.

I don't think that was the case In this situation. Even were I to agree with the assumption that the dog was in any danger, or being terrorised, I would assume it was being done out of ignorance rather than for jollies.

I find people who attribute complex feelings and emotional needs to dogs to be somewhat creepy. I don't think that's an outlandish statement. I don't think awareness that dogs are animals and do not have the same intellectual and emotional spectrum as humans is a particularly ignorant viewpoint either, as has been suggested above.

The op in this thread is judging the behaviour of others (strangers at that) by his/her own subjective view of dogs, and their needs. I simply happen to think that it is not a view shared by most people, or even by most dog lovers or owners.

Graces7

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

Hope you don;t have a dog...NB cuddle is a very innocent word in this context. Dogs need to be touched, stroked, petted, hugged.

That is what they are.

The choc lab the other day was desperately lonely for contact. What would YOU do if a dog came to you and pushed his head against you? Push him away and call it creepy?

Graces7

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't think that was the case In this situation. Even were I to agree with the assumption that the dog was in any danger, or being terrorised, I would assume it was being done out of ignorance rather than for jollies.

I find people who attribute complex feelings and emotional needs to dogs to be somewhat creepy. I don't think that's an outlandish statement. I don't think awareness that dogs are animals and do not have the same intellectual and emotional spectrum as humans is a particularly ignorant viewpoint either, as has been suggested above.

The op in this thread is judging the behaviour of others (strangers at that) by his/her own subjective view of dogs, and their needs. I simply happen to think that it is not a view shared by most people, or even by most dog lovers or owners.

That is the biggest and stinkiest load of bullpuckies I have read in a long time.

The needs of a dog are not complex in any way. Very simple in fact which is part of what makes them a joy.

They have a need and they express it with their bodies.

A small puppy wil literally hurl itself at you; climb to your lap. Nuzzle and lick you.

And no one has suggested here what you call "the same
intellectual and emotional spectrum as humans".. far from it. You are totally misreading what has been said here.

Were a dog an intellectual critter it would have the sense to dump its owner when it was ill treated.

And you are wrong in your last para also,

How you read this in what was written is a total mystery.

And you seem to think it is fine for dogs to run loose in heavy traffic?

So a dog howling half the night because it is chained up outside? and a dog that greets its owner every time they come home with such joy?

Indricotherium

Graces7 wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

Hope you don;t have a dog...NB cuddle is a very innocent word in this context. Dogs need to be touched, stroked, petted, hugged.

That is what they are.

The choc lab the other day was desperately lonely for contact. What would YOU do if a dog came to you and pushed his head against you? Push him away and call it creepy?

You seem to think I was implying some sort of sexual implication to cuddle, I wasn't, apologise if I gave that impression.

What I mean is that not everyone considers dogs to be full emotional peers with humans, as many posters on this type of thread seem to.

Graces7

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't think that was the case In this situation. Even were I to agree with the assumption that the dog was in any danger, or being terrorised, I would assume it was being done out of ignorance rather than for jollies.

I find people who attribute complex feelings and emotional needs to dogs to be somewhat creepy. I don't think that's an outlandish statement. I don't think awareness that dogs are animals and do not have the same intellectual and emotional spectrum as humans is a particularly ignorant viewpoint either, as has been suggested above.

The op in this thread is judging the behaviour of others (strangers at that) by his/her own subjective view of dogs, and their needs. I simply happen to think that it is not a view shared by most people, or even by most dog lovers or owners.

This reflects your mind not ours..

So a dog running loose without a collar on a busy road is what? A dog that already has large wound scars?

A dog that comes to a stranger , or rather several strangers, lies down at their feet? Nuzzles them ,, reaches a paw to them?

A dog is only a half being without its owner. Incomplete. Lost.

Maybe watch or read "Greyfriars Bobby" ... or the Lassie films...

What please do you mean by "jollies"?

maggiepip

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't think that was the case In this situation. Even were I to agree with the assumption that the dog was in any danger, or being terrorised, I would assume it was being done out of ignorance rather than for jollies.

I find people who attribute complex feelings and emotional needs to dogs to be somewhat creepy. I don't think that's an outlandish statement. I don't think awareness that dogs are animals and do not have the same intellectual and emotional spectrum as humans is a particularly ignorant viewpoint either, as has been suggested above.

The op in this thread is judging the behaviour of others (strangers at that) by his/her own subjective view of dogs, and their needs. I simply happen to think that it is not a view shared by most people, or even by most dog lovers or owners.

Have you actually read any of the posts? Or are you just out to have a gripe at people who care?

Your post doesn't even make sense as there are no COMPLEX human emotions being attributed here. Just the basics.

If you consider people who do not want a dog to be lonely, terrified or in danger of being hurt/run over, or in pain from being overexercised or feeling some compassion for a dog who is craving affection - a transferral of COMPLEX human emotions then I so truly hope you do not, or ever intend to own a dog.

And Im sorry to disappoint you but most dog lovers or even most people will not agree with you, as, amongst other flaws, you post is out of context.

Dogs are not objects - and while they do not suffer from the nasty emotions humans have - they feel fear, loneliness, rejection, frustration, boredom, pain......... whats complex about that???

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little before insulting other people.

Tranceypoo

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

Noone is assigning human feelings and wants to dogs, this is such a lazy, ignorant assumption on the part of people who, for instance, think it's ok to throw a dog off a pier to help it overcome its fear of swimming.

Let's just get one thing straight here, just because dog owners on this forum love their dogs, it does not mean we 'humanise' them and think they are people, or worse, substitute children. What is does mean is that we take responsibility for them and don't let run round the streets and roads, dodging traffic and all kinds of dangers, starve, have numerous litters of puppies or sire same and we don't treat them as toys, ie picking them up and throwing them into the sea and back again like a toy.

Honestly, as another poster said, it is indeed people like you, with your attitude, that is wrong with animal welfare in this country 'ah sure a swim in the sea isn't going to hurt the dog'

And for the record, I pet and stroke my dogs, it could sometimes be construed as 'cuddling', I believe research has been done to show this can reduce stress levels and lower blood pressure in humans - creepy right?

OldNotWIse

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't think that was the case In this situation. Even were I to agree with the assumption that the dog was in any danger, or being terrorised, I would assume it was being done out of ignorance rather than for jollies.

I find people who attribute complex feelings and emotional needs to dogs to be somewhat creepy. I don't think that's an outlandish statement. I don't think awareness that dogs are animals and do not have the same intellectual and emotional spectrum as humans is a particularly ignorant viewpoint either, as has been suggested above.

The op in this thread is judging the behaviour of others (strangers at that) by his/her own subjective view of dogs, and their needs. I simply happen to think that it is not a view shared by most people, or even by most dog lovers or owners.

Well perhaps our definition of creepy simply differs (for you, its people who care for their animals, for me, its people who er...clearly dont) simple.



Nobody is "assigning complex emotional needs" to anyone (though I suspect the teenager in question is somewhat lacking in the emotional IQ department) - to say ,"please stop throwing your small dog into the water as he is clearly afraid" is not assigning complex emotional needs - its common decency. Though if indeed you think not placing a small, vulnerable, living creature in a dangerous situation where they clearly feel fear and panic is looking after their complex emotional needs, I hope you never have children.

The OP wasn't judging the family based on their subjective views, but rather, on their actions.

It's convenient for people who do not support animal welfare to tar everyone who does with the same brush -"oh you're all tree hugging, cardigan wearing vegans who care more about dogs than people" but the reality is this is simply a stereotype used as a justification for instant ridicule and dismissal. It's so easy. My best friend is not really adog person (she's of the "dogs are dirty and possibly viscious and leave hairs all over my baby's cot and muddy pawprints on my rug" brigade lol) but she would never see one come to any harm, and I'm pretty sure she would have intervened had she seen this.

Graces7

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol at all of the above.

Not everyone has the dogs are delicate petals / little people with feelings approach to owning a dog.

A swim in the sea is not going to hurt a dog.

Those above assigning human feelings and wants, such as a dog "wanting a cuddle" is frankly a little bit creepy.

If you read the thread re dog friendly businesses...

PucaMama

Graces7 wrote: »

A very .. inbred place....

not very nice op

meoklmrk91

For the life of me I can't understand people who don't take care of their animals, they took on the responsibility and when they get bored its no longer their problem. Dogs can't fend for themselves, it's simple as, as cat may be able to survive but a dog can't, it would take a few generations for them to become feral dogs again and thus a danger to humans as no one wants pack of wild dogs to come back.

A friend of mine lives in an estate where taking careof our dog seems to be fecking scraps out the front and leaving them run wild. There must be at least ten dogs out at all times, one of these is a poorly socialised dobie, who is a "guard dog" and has already put one dog in a serious condition after attacking it and attacked another. There are kids out playing all the time. I am not saying dobies are dangerous, just that any dog with the strength and power they have coupled with them being poorly socialised means that it's a serious accident waiting to happen. The dog warden came around and took no dogs away, a disgrace in my opinion.

I can't imagine leaving my lot out at night, especially not the dog, he gets a great nights sleep, so do we and our neighbours, it's just better for everyone. The cats stay in too, they may go roaming for a bit but are never far and I know they are safe which means I can go to bed happy. Cant imagine having the dog run around unsupervised, we are lucky with the cats as we live in a very quite cul de sac and they are very safe. Our estate is lovely actually when it comes to animals, hardly anyone leaves their dogs out unsupervised and most of the dogs have fab lives.

OldNotWIse

PucaMama wrote: »

not very nice op

Maybe it was referring to the pedigree dogs....:D

maggiepip

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Maybe it was referring to the pedigree dogs....:D

OldNotWIse

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

For the life of me I can't understand people who don't take care of their animals, they took on the responsibility and when they get bored its no longer their problem. Dogs can't fend for themselves, it's simple as, as cat may be able to survive but a dog can't, it would take a few generations for them to become feral dogs again and thus a danger to humans as no one wants pack of wild dogs to come back.

A friend of mine lives in an estate where taking careof our dog seems to be fecking scraps out the front and leaving them run wild. There must be at least ten dogs out at all times, one of these is a poorly socialised dobie, who is a "guard dog" and has already put one dog in a serious condition after attacking it and attacked another. There are kids out playing all the time. I am not saying dobies are dangerous, just that any dog with the strength and power they have coupled with them being poorly socialised means that it's a serious accident waiting to happen. The dog warden came around and took no dogs away, a disgrace in my opinion.

I can't imagine leaving my lot out at night, especially not the dog, he gets a great nights sleep, so do we and our neighbours, it's just better for everyone. The cats stay in too, they may go roaming for a bit but are never far and I know they are safe which means I can go to bed happy. Cant imagine having the dog run around unsupervised, we are lucky with the cats as we live in a very quite cul de sac and they are very safe. Our estate is lovely actually when it comes to animals, hardly anyone leaves their dogs out unsupervised and most of the dogs have fab lives.

Agree so much with this. I really like having my sidekick in the bed at night with me lol (though she tends to vie for the best spot when the OH stays over)

You know, I think its just so...Irish the way we treat our animals (especially dogs). Of course there are good and bad owners but most of what I see is people who really should know better stretching themselves beyond their means in order to buy a "purebred" dog from the back of a caravan in the ar*ehole of nowhere from a breeder in order to keep up appearances - and then grow tired of the dog and look for any excuse to have it re-homed or euthanaised. I actually heard one woman last week telling another that her dog wasn't worth four hundred euro (we had been tlaking about a company that will euthanaise at home and remove body, return ashes in urn etc for this price) which is fair enough if you dont have it - but I'm pretty sure she had it when she bought the dog. I felt like saying ,"well you obviously thought she was worth four hundred at some stage" :rolleyes:

Having said that, I have seen the good in people also (just not as much) when I have worked with animals, but we often only hear of the bad.

A minority go over and above the call of duty to make a better life for our four legged friends. A minority are evil scumbags who think its hilarious to tie a banger to a cats tail or use a puppy as bait for dog fights. The majority are happy to turn a blind eye and in a way, are just as culpable.

Graces7

PucaMama wrote: »

not very nice op

?? No judgement, simply fact.

Amazing that you take that word as an insult?

Many small isolated communities are like this.

Wonder why and how it can be taken as an insult.. Just means the gene pool is limited is all.

Which is one reason there is a high incidence of mental handicap in Ireland.

This wil be less so infuture with more foreigners moving here.

Makes no difference to the way we are with people; love them all but know their limitations. And try damage limitation where the dogs are concerned.
Quietly..

NB I am a social historian and Ireland is fascinating..

I have never seen the choc lab before and I know most of the local dogs after two years. No collar but the mark of one; maybe left chained up and wriggled out of his collar.. And I can guarantee that my enquiry of that local man will result in a better deal for the dog.

PS would rather attribute ignorance to tradition and this than think it is wilful and chosen.

My English friends there with the cats do as I do; keep peace and act.

Graces7

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Maybe it was referring to the pedigree dogs....:D

I wish!

maggiepip

I know, its just terrible the way some people treat their animals. Almost every day I see something that makes me worry or sad. At the moment there is someone near me who recently got a collie - all day, every day that little dog sits alone in a garden with no one looking up nor down at it. It is never walked, or interacted with (apart from a few roars to "shut up"). Because this dog has a kennel and is fed there is nothing anybody can do. It kills me. That will be this dogs life for the next decade. Sometimes I get so angry I cry - and thats the truth.

We have 3 dogs (and four cats!) who are treated like full members of the family. They have full run of the house come everywhere with us (the dogs that is, not possible with cats:D) and are treated like royalty. We are their world and I couldnt imagine not doing this for them. We consider it a privilege to have such gorgeous loving creatures to share our lives with and its our responsibility (and pleasure) to give them the best life possible. I can just never fathom whats wrong with some people.

Graces7

maggiepip wrote: »

I know, its just terrible the way some people treat their animals. Almost every day I see something that makes me worry or sad. At the moment there is someone near me who recently got a collie - all day, every day that little dog sits alone in a garden with no one looking up nor down at it. It is never walked, or interacted with (apart from a few roars to "shut up"). Because this dog has a kennel and is fed there is nothing anybody can do. It kills me. That will be this dogs life for the next decade. Sometimes I get so angry I cry - and thats the truth.

We have 3 dogs (and four cats!) who are treated like full members of the family. They have full run of the house come everywhere with us (the dogs that is, not possible with cats:D) and are treated like royalty. We are their world and I couldnt imagine not doing this for them. We consider it a privilege to have such gorgeous loving creatures to share our lives with and its our responsibility (and pleasure) to give them the best life possible. I can just never fathom whats wrong with some people.

This was exacty how we found our collie, then 5 yrs old. Chained 24.7 to a 56 lb weight near a kennel and fed once a day with mushed up white bread, water, and cheap tinned dog food, by a ruined house.

It was our new landlord;'s dog. He lived miles away. Daddy's dog and Daddy had died a few months ago. They had bought the puppy for hm 5 years before when Mammy died, bu Daddy was not interested and never spent another night in that house, so collie was locked in a dark windowless shed each night for around 16 hours.

We started feeding her and asked f we could care for her. Covered all bases with a local rescue in case there were issues.

LL had the nerve when we got permission from his wife to take her when we moved that he missed her...

Never been wormed or spayed.

The staggering thing is that he did not ever see he was doing anything wrong. Just was the olny way he could think of. Young man too.

They later bought a pretty spaniel pp for their son, but it was never allowed in the house and ended up ruined and chained up on the grass in all weathers.

Graces7

maggiepip wrote: »

Have you actually read any of the posts? Or are you just out to have a gripe at people who care?

Your post doesn't even make sense as there are no COMPLEX human emotions being attributed here. Just the basics.

If you consider people who do not want a dog to be lonely, terrified or in danger of being hurt/run over, or in pain from being overexercised or feeling some compassion for a dog who is craving affection - a transferral of COMPLEX human emotions then I so truly hope you do not, or ever intend to own a dog.

And Im sorry to disappoint you but most dog lovers or even most people will not agree with you, as, amongst other flaws, you post is out of context.

Dogs are not objects - and while they do not suffer from the nasty emotions humans have - they feel fear, loneliness, rejection, frustration, boredom, pain......... whats complex about that???

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little before insulting other people.

But he does; mentions it in the thread re dog friendly businesses..

maggiepip

Graces7 wrote: »

But he does; mentions it in the thread re dog friendly businesses..

Yes, I saw that:mad:

PucaMama

Graces7 wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

not very nice op

?? No judgement, simply fact.

Amazing that you take that word as an insult?

Many small isolated communities are like this.

Wonder why and how it can be taken as an insult.. Just means the gene pool is limited is all.

Which is one reason there is a high incidence of mental handicap in Ireland.

This wil be less so infuture with more foreigners moving here.

Makes no difference to the way we are with people; love them all but know their limitations. And try damage limitation where the dogs are concerned.
Quietly..

NB I am a social historian and Ireland is fascinating..

I have never seen the choc lab before and I know most of the local dogs after two years. No collar but the mark of one; maybe left chained up and wriggled out of his collar.. And I can guarantee that my enquiry of that local man will result in a better deal for the dog.

PS would rather attribute ignorance to tradition and this than think it is wilful and chosen.

My English friends there with the cats do as I do; keep peace and act.

It is a judgement. you dont have their birth certs. You cant say they are inbred.
Just because its a small town or village doesnt mean they are all inbreeding. I think its a disgusting thing to say personally since I come from one of those small towns.

spiralbound

Graces7 wrote: »

?? No judgement, simply fact.

Amazing that you take that word as an insult?

Many small isolated communities are like this.

Wonder why and how it can be taken as an insult.. Just means the gene pool is limited is all.

Which is one reason there is a high incidence of mental handicap in Ireland.

'Inbred' generally has negative connotations.

Do you have a source for the high incidence of 'mental handicap'?

OldNotWIse

Indricotherium wrote: »

You seem to think I was implying some sort of sexual implication to cuddle, I wasn't, apologise if I gave that impression.

What I mean is that not everyone considers dogs to be full emotional peers with humans, as many posters on this type of thread seem to.[/QUOTE]


I suspect this is simply the inference you are taking though, as it suits your agenda. I haven't seen any posters claiming to be on an emotional or social par with their dogs. Looking after your animals does not mean you see them as your peers. God's sake :rolleyes:

OldNotWIse

PucaMama wrote: »

It is a judgement. you dont have their birth certs. You cant say they are inbred.
Just because its a small town or village doesnt mean they are all inbreeding. I think its a disgusting thing to say personally since I come from one of those small towns.

I think its more disgusting the way they treat their animals. I couldn't give a rodent's backside if someone wants to "keep it in the family" but animal abuse and neglect is inexcusable.

PucaMama

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I think its more disgusting the way they treat their animals. I couldn't give a rodent's backside if someone wants to "keep it in the family" but animal abuse and neglect is inexcusable.

im not even talking about the animals. im talking about her claim that people from small towns are inbred without any proof.

OldNotWIse

PucaMama wrote: »

im not even talking about the animals. im talking about her claim that people from small towns are inbred without any proof.

I'm talking about the animals, and that is how the thread started out is it not? OP could call these people all the names under the sun, it wouldn't be excusable, but it certainly would not negate their treatment of their animals.

PucaMama

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm talking about the animals, and that is how the thread started out is it not? OP could call these people all the names under the sun, it wouldn't be excusable, but it certainly would not negate their treatment of their animals.

if you want to be picky, the first thing she said was the bit about them being inbred.

Graces7

PucaMama wrote: »

It is a judgement. you dont have their birth certs. You cant say they are inbred.
Just because its a small town or village doesnt mean they are all inbreeding. I think its a disgusting thing to say personally since I come from one of those small towns.

Your response is your choice. All I can say is that it was not intended that way and should not be taken that way. And I don't think you understand what the word really means either. Again, it is nothing immoral or of that nature.

Can we drop this please as it is way off thread and away from the topic.

Thank you.

OldNotWIse

PucaMama wrote: »

if you want to be picky, the first thing she said was the bit about them being inbred.

Seriously? We're actually going down the "she started it" road??

Graces7

spiralbound wrote: »

'Inbred' generally has negative connotations.

Do you have a source for the high incidence of 'mental handicap'?

Many; am working on a book on all this and reliable source material.

It happens in many isolated places and not just Ireland. Up in Orkney for example, the limited gene pool resulted in a huge number of multiple births and also an appallingly high rate of MS which is still ongoing to this day. Too many were "sib" to each other, even though not within the generally accepted proscribed marriage list as there was less understanding of genetics in those days.

The good thing is that it has become a sterling centre for the treatment of MS

The term has also become somewhat of a metaphor for closed minds that are found in small communities. Clannishness; like the local trader who opined that the choc lab was OF COURSE well cared for as it was local.
So with all the dogs there of course; because the owner is local....

Sorry; did not mean to go on..am off my feet this week and working on the book.

But there was certainly never any accusation of anything immoral or nasty...simply fact in a land where the family has always been so utterly treasured.

spiralbound

Graces7 wrote: »

Many; am working on a book on all this and reliable source material.

Can you give the names of your sources? I've not come across this before.

Indricotherium

Graces7 wrote: »

But there was certainly never any accusation of anything immoral or nasty...simply fact in a land where the family has always been so utterly treasured.

Graces7 wrote: »

We trade once a week at a free market in a small village. A very .. inbred place... As blow ins we have to tread carefully..

To be fair I think you did.

Graces7

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm talking about the animals, and that is how the thread started out is it not? OP could call these people all the names under the sun, it wouldn't be excusable, but it certainly would not negate their treatment of their animals.

Exactly so.. and by the way my words were taken out of context; "Blow ins have to be very careful.."

See what I meant by the whole sentence?

Up in Orkney they say that you do not belong until your grandmther is buried in the cemetery

I and others do tread very carefully indeed when in small towns where everyone knows each other so well and where we are outsiders. Hoping that by treading carefully we can help critters we meet.

because it is the critters who matter here, isn't it? Will never forget the scars on that boxer. Still roaming the road.

Graces7

Indricotherium wrote: »

To be fair I think you did.

People matter, simply. Whoever and whatever, they matter too. If we alienate them the critters suffer too.

The choc lab sat at my feet half the day and was gently treated and everyone saw that;)

He is a beauty.Chances are I will never see him again.

And soon the season will end and the village will retreat into itself until St Patrick's Day 2013.

Graces7

spiralbound wrote: »

Can you give the names of your sources? I've not come across this before.

Ask google or wait for the book...Sorry if that sounds brusque but this is not the place for this discussion ...

Ireland takes wonderful care of its adult mentally handicapped which is something they have learned. We see groups on day trips at many of the festivals and markets. Clearly well loved.

spiralbound

Graces7 wrote: »

Ask google or wait for the book...Sorry if that sounds brusque but this is not the place for this discussion ...

Ireland takes wonderful care of its adult mentally handicapped which is something they have learned. We see groups on day trips at many of the festivals and markets. Clearly well loved.

I did ask Google, and couldn't find anything, which is why I asked you to back up your claim. What is the book called, and when will it be out, so I can read it when it's published?

Indricotherium

Graces7 wrote: »

Ask google or wait for the book...Sorry if that sounds brusque but this is not the place for this discussion ...

Ireland takes wonderful care of its adult mentally handicapped which is something they have learned. We see groups on day trips at many of the festivals and markets. Clearly well loved.

Just give a list of sources. Or even one.

DBB

Mod note
This thread is veering off topic a little too much, and some posters are coming ta little too close to being offensive and/or trollish at times.
Let's get back on topic please, and keep it civil.
Do not reply to this post. Any comments to be made by PM.
Thanks,
DBB