Mad Drivers

Motorist

I was cycling from town up through Rathmines today. Parts of the cycle lane are fairly rough. I was a little bit out from the kerb for around 20 meters so that I wouldn't lose control of my bike if I hit a rough spot.

Some driver started reving his car up behind me - I was moving very quickly and there was a lot of traffic up ahead so I wasn't slowing him down. Then he deliberately passed very closely to me. We hit a red light at the next junction and he began shouting that "It's illegal for a bike to be more than one foot away from the footpath". I said to him that that was nonsense. I lost him after that, as he got caught in the traffic.

Some serious nutcases out there. The whole incident was unprovoked and he seemed to escalate in anger and ignorance all by himself. And that one foot thing has to be nonsense considering all the obstructions in the cycle lane, and when you are entering a right-turn only lane, etc.

I can see why some cyclists have video cameras now.

Raam

MIA?

lennymc

MIB?

GoldenTickets

MIC?

As in taking the...

el Bastardo

Motorist wrote: »

I was cycling from town up through Rathmines today. Parts of the cycle lane are fairly rough. I was a little bit out from the kerb for around 20 meters so that I wouldn't lose control of my bike if I hit a rough spot.

Some driver started reving his car up behind me - I was moving very quickly and there was a lot of traffic up ahead so I wasn't slowing him down. Then he deliberately passed very closely to me. We hit a red light at the next junction and he began shouting that "It's illegal for a bike to be more than one foot away from the footpath". I said to him that that was nonsense. I lost him after that, as he got caught in the traffic.

Some serious nutcases out there. The whole incident was unprovoked and he seemed to escalate in anger and ignorance all by himself. And that one foot thing has to be nonsense considering all the obstructions in the cycle lane, and when you are entering a right-turn only lane, etc.

I can see why some cyclists have video cameras now.

Some people are just grumpy cnuts: On any other day, he'd be the sort taking issue with the colour of your shoes or something.

For me, it's not a daily occurrence, but it happensfar too often and almost always it's those ignorant barge drivers that see me and just won't wait their turn.

Motorist

Just getting used to it.

Out of interest, I notice in the motorcycles forum that they talk of "all the gear all the time" in reference to wearing safety gear.

Often times, a motorcyclist loses a lot of skin from contact with the road after a fall if not wearing proper protection. Does the same not apply to cyclists as speeds of around 20-25 mph are approached. Not that I'm advocating wearing a full leather racing suit on a bicycle, but was just thinking of the lack of skin protection

Raam

Motorist wrote: »

Often times, a motorcyclist loses a lot of skin from contact with the road after a fall if not wearing proper protection. Does the same not apply to cyclists as speeds of around 20-25 mph are approached.

Badges of honour, we call them.

bcmf

Ah .....a poster called 'Motorist' giving out about a motorist giving out to 'Motorist' for riding his bike on the road.

Lumen

It was crazy day today. Must be sunspots.

Gavin

Lumen wrote: »

It was crazy day today. Must be sunspots.

Weird ! It was actually. Two incidents today, the only ones in quite a long time.

Motorist

Gavin wrote: »

Weird ! It was actually. Two incidents today, the only ones in quite a long time.

I had two separate ones apart from the aforementioned today, so 3 in total. One minor enough and one involved emergency braking with a last minute swerve.

Mycroft H

I got a bottle thrown at me today. First time in a long time.

Also

- A driver that tried to overtake me on a blind corner only to meet the BE 120 bus barreling along. Very very near miss.
- A passenger in a Caddy van shout something from the window at me. I waved back.
- A woman in a passat who pulled out in front of me at the crossroads in Allenwood. She beeped at me when I waved at her for pulling out in front of me.

Must be something in the water today....

doozerie

On my way through Rathmines today a car ahead of me decided to drive in the cycle lane clinging to the curb, right past the cop shop, turned left at the next junction with no indicator, pulled out of the bike lane only to swing back in there again as he swung a wide right to turn into the petrol station, probably using the petrol station as a cut-through means of avoiding the red traffic lights as many people seem to do.

None of that was unusual except for the fact that the back of his car was filled to the roof with slightly intriguing sh1te of various forms. There was paperwork piled high, a yellow hard hat, a hi-viz vest, two large rusted frying pans, and a mess of other stuff. It was like someone tipped the contents of a skip into the back of his car. I spent the next while wondering what kind of life he leads, and for some reason my mind didn't wander far from images from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 'cos I'd bet there's more than one chainsaw and a few limbs buried away in there somewhere. He'd obviously be the RSA approved version of a serial killer though, given his brightly coloured hard hat and hi-viz vest worn for safety at all times.

check_six

Wasn't there a thread on here somewhere about keeping within that magic 30cm of the edge of the road?

I'm almost sure there was an actual boards.ie member who was insisting this was THE LAW. Perhaps they have transplanted their trolling to the real world? That will not go well for them I suspect.

Jawgap

I vote the OP be banned and his name stricken from the record of this forum for failing to heed to commandments of cycling as handed down by Gaybo and the RSA, namely.....

"don’t get into shouting matches with motorists"

Hmmzis

Did you get his reg number? That was dangerous driving plus it was intentional. Has to be reported to traffic watch or a garda station. Sooner or later that lunatic will hurt or kill a dad, mum or child doing this.

droidus

check_six wrote: »

Wasn't there a thread on here somewhere about keeping within that magic 30cm of the edge of the road?

I'm almost sure there was an actual boards.ie member who was insisting this was THE LAW. Perhaps they have transplanted their trolling to the real world? That will not go well for them I suspect.

There was indeed, but I dont think it was boards. Politics.ie maybe?

Lumen

droidus wrote: »

There was indeed, but I dont think it was boards. Politics.ie maybe?

Somewhere on this thread perhaps:

http://www.politics.ie/forum/transport/146381-crackdown-dangerous-cyclists-42.html

"look it up for yoursef and dont be so lazy, at roundabouts cyclist must keep to within 1 foot of the kerb/roadside ot the left side of a lane ie the left side lane markings....if I come across a cyclist 2 or 3 feet out I will slow to their speed and keep my finger on the horn until they get back to within 12 inches of the path. If this scares another cyclist off the roads its a job well done"

LOL. Spanner.

ragazzo

Lumen wrote: »

Somewhere on this thread perhaps:

http://www.politics.ie/forum/transport/146381-crackdown-dangerous-cyclists-42.html

"look it up for yoursef and dont be so lazy, at roundabouts cyclist must keep to within 1 foot of the kerb/roadside ot the left side of a lane ie the left side lane markings....if I come across a cyclist 2 or 3 feet out I will slow to their speed and keep my finger on the horn until they get back to within 12 inches of the path. If this scares another cyclist off the roads its a job well done"

LOL. Spanner.

Just another example of the type of fools driving on Irish roads. Whether one is cycling or driving an mpv makes no difference to these morons. When they drive through a STOP sign, fail to yield, accept calls on their mobiles whilst driving etc, this is ok. If something happens then it is your fault because they are brilliant drivers and could not be at fault. They are also very safe drivers. Sometimes they even pull out in front of trucks. Then, a flip of the bird is necessary to show the stupid truck driver who is boss. They own the road, they know everything and they are never wrong. Their rules-their roads!

seamus

Yeah, it's been a weird few days for it. Usually my commutes are punctuated with just general idiocy - i.e. people just being idiots, not necessarily doing stuff against me. Most of my commutes now tend to go without incident. But I've had 2 or 3 people over the last week make one of those, "I don't want you to be here" close overtakes followed by pulling in so close to the kerb that it must take effort to stay there.

Then I had one van beep at me before his overtake. Usually I interpret this as a misguided attempt to warn me of the overtake, but the overtake was close so clearly he was annoyed that it took him six seconds longer to reach the queue at the next set of lights.

Another van was coming off the M50 as I happened to be straddling the space between the slip road and the main lane, as I do every day. He hesitated about what to do (clue: when the other vehicle is going 30km/h, you can probably accelerate faster than it) before sitting on his horn while he overtook me.

And finally a very old woman attempting to take an illegal right turn who nearly pulled across me and then smiled creepily when she spotted me and stopped.

I've taken to using the "WTF are you doing" shrug/hand gesture followed by a shake of the head.

rollingscone

Cycling through Ranelagh, Milltown, CLonskeagh daily at the moment and it's a constant joy to have to use the compulsory cycle lanes, therefore needing to signal into traffic in advance of parked cars multiple times, or to be heading back downhill in the evenings at 45-50kmh when some magic motorist casually undertakes into the again compulsory cycle lane without looking to see if it's safe to do so.

Console yourself with the thoughts of their cardiac disease and diabetes and try not to get too stressed over the additional healthcare costs they impose on the taxpayer.

valleyoftheunos

Have recently started commuting by bike again through Rathmines and so far have found the Motorists to be alright, then again I'm a bit bolshy and tend to cycle in the middle of lanes where everyone can see me.

I'm finding careless pedestrians to be way more of a hazard over the last while although that's an entire thread on its own.

monument

Some motorists get very annoyed that a cyclist is in front of them regardless if they are actually been held up, they strongly hold the perception that if a cyclist is in front of them the cyclist is holding them up.

I find most of the worst overtaking is happens not on a clear road, but where there is heavy traffic or red lights just a few meters ahead. They just have to get past the cyclist. And with more than half of those who overtake in this way, you pass them out again.

OldBean

I was about 4 inches from being taken out while crossing a junction by a motorist who broke the lights... who then started beeping/shouting at me for making him stop!

doozerie

On my commute in this morning a driver accelerated (close) past me to cut across my lane to a left-turning lane. He didn't use his indicator, not that it would have mattered in the circumstances mind you, and just immediately joined the back of a line of stopped traffic, which required me to haul on the brakes to avoiding running into the back of his now stopped car angled across both lanes.

His window was down so I pulled up beside it and told him he'd driven too close, cut me up, and not indicated. He chose to focus entirely on the least significant bit of what I'd said, the indicator bit 'cos presumably everything else is secondary or something. As he stabbed his finger at his dash, he half yelled half growled loudly "My indicator was on!" (indicators are amazing in that they can defy the laws of time 'cos if an indicator is flashing now then apparently it was beyond doubt also flashing at any random controversial moment in the past that you might care to mention).

Anyway, the attempted menace in his voice reminded me a little of the fake monster tone that my toddler daughter adopts when she is joking around. Without thinking I just automatically responded in kind, saying "Your indicator was not on!" in my own slow fake monster voice that my daughter finds amusing. I just about stopped myself from saying the usual "Here I come, and I'm going to EAT YOU UP!", but it was a near thing there for a moment. The look on yer man's face was priceless, he was briefly stunned into silence, he clearly didn't know how to respond. As traffic started to move off though he regained some of his composure and started increasingly yelling and gesturing at me the further away he got.

I must remember that response for the next time, maybe I'll throw in some tickles too.

valleyoftheunos

Have to give a bit of balance to this thread and thank the driver in Terenure yesterday who not only spotted the fool walking his bike in the cycle lane ahead of me but anticipated the evasive maneuver I would have to make and then slowed down to give me the room to do it.

he even gave me a cheery wave as he then went past!

DaveyDave

Last week I was cycling down the N4 going into Chapelizod when a taxi drives past me as if I wasn't there. I've been cycling for over a year so close calls are business as usual but this one nearly gave me a bloody heart attack.

I was probably doing about 40kph when it happened, fortunately it didn't happen on the actual slip road where I do up to 60kph because motorists have a habit of squeezing past me even though I take the middle of the lane. I tried catching him at the lights up a head but I just missed him then had to stop to calm down.

Mycroft H

DaveyDave wrote: »

Last week I was cycling down the N4 going into Chapelizod when a taxi drives past me as if I wasn't there. I've been cycling for over a year so close calls are business as usual but this one nearly gave me a bloody heart attack.

I was probably doing about 40kph when it happened, fortunately it didn't happen on the actual slip road where I do up to 60kph because motorists have a habit of squeezing past me even though I take the middle of the lane. I tried catching him at the lights up a head but I just missed him then had to stop to calm down.

Chapelizod bypass?

Stollaire

Full Moon = Aggressive Psychos in cars

valleyoftheunos

I wonder is there a Lunatic Cyclist thread over in the motors forum?:D

rflynnr

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I wonder is there a Lunatic Cyclist thread over in the motors forum?:D

I suspect there's almost nothing but.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Drivers arent too bad on my commute, mostly. The odd nutter who likes to take the skin off your knee or pull out without looking.

I had a problem with a fellow cyclist today on the Rock Road. We had just started off at a green light at the punchbowl, gaining a bit of speed, he decided to lash on the brakes and stop in the cycle lane. I ended up in the back of him.

He had no obvious reason to brake hard and I wasnt drafting him or anything.

I was lucky I didnt end up squashed under the bus that was behind us.

Lawr

Once the sun sets at or before 5 and rises after nine, I'll be back on the street-lit roads to work every day. At the moment, I have the daylight option of taking an unlit short-cut, which is not heavily trafficked, though those using the road tend to exceed the speed limit by exponential factors. I've been subjected to a few careless drivers, but never on the order of those who travel the main street-lit roads. There, I can't even go there. All I can say is that there are people who are driving automobiles, trucks and vans who, whatever about them being ignorant of the rules that govern bikes and cars in relation to each other, they seem to have no sense of the vulnerability of cyclists and seem not to reason the possible consequences of their behaviour when the strafe at speed or cut cyclists off or throw bottles or shout or whatever the do to express their discontent with such an easy target.

But what I dread more, are cyclists who seemingly are of the mentality that what is moral and ethical is constituted by what is a reckless economy: the shortest distance between two points. There are many reasons not to use cycle lanes, but these people are one of them. They go the wrong way on single-track, direction-specific cycle lanes. They run red lights. They cycle on footpaths. They cycle in the road against traffic. They are as unpredictable as a jay-walker, and I honestly believe that 90% of them haven't a clue that they are doing anything wrong. Some of them justify their actions by reasoning that what they do is safest for them. (I can kind of understand this reasoning, though I'd ask them to think about how it puts others--usually pedestrians--in harm's way.) Some, I believe, are motivated by utter laziness. Just couldn't bother their arses to cross the road in order to get into the correct cycle lane. Some, related to the first, are just motivated by fear.

What destroys me is that there are no public safety commercials on television advertising driver/cycle safety messages: how to behave around each other. If there were safety commercials on tv advertising that drivers need to anticipate how cyclists might respond to potholes or deep sewer drain covers or leaves in the gutter or turning right or whatever and show cyclists paying attention to the directional signals painted on most cycle tracks and lanes, maybe things might improve a bit. Who knows. But it kills me that RTE can give tons of cash away on the Late, Late, but couldn't cough up enough cash to advertise more public safety issues. RTE wouldn't be here if we weren't footing their over-priced bill. I saw today that they are claiming that they were profitable last year. WHAT A LAUGH!

More public service messages. More education!

valleyoftheunos

Lawr wrote: »

Once the sun sets at or before 5 and rises after nine, I'll be back on the street-lit roads to work every day. At the moment, I have the daylight option of taking an unlit short-cut, which is not heavily trafficked, though those using the road tend to exceed the speed limit by exponential factors. I've been subjected to a few careless drivers, but never on the order of those who travel the main street-lit roads. There, I can't even go there. All I can say is that there are people who are driving automobiles, trucks and vans who, whatever about them being ignorant of the rules that govern bikes and cars in relation to each other, they seem to have no sense of the vulnerability of cyclists and seem not to reason the possible consequences of their behaviour when the strafe at speed or cut cyclists off or throw bottles or shout or whatever the do to express their discontent with such an easy target.

But what I dread more, are cyclists who seemingly are of the mentality that what is moral and ethical is constituted by what is a reckless economy: the shortest distance between two points. There are many reasons not to use cycle lanes, but these people are one of them. They go the wrong way on single-track, direction-specific cycle lanes. They run red lights. They cycle on footpaths. They cycle in the road against traffic. They are as unpredictable as a jay-walker, and I honestly believe that 90% of them haven't a clue that they are doing anything wrong. Some of them justify their actions by reasoning that what they do is safest for them. (I can kind of understand this reasoning, though I'd ask them to think about how it puts others--usually pedestrians--in harm's way.) Some, I believe, are motivated by utter laziness. Just couldn't bother their arses to cross the road in order to get into the correct cycle lane. Some, related to the first, are just motivated by fear.

What destroys me is that there are no public safety commercials on television advertising driver/cycle safety messages: how to behave around each other. If there were safety commercials on tv advertising that drivers need to anticipate how cyclists might respond to potholes or deep sewer drain covers or leaves in the gutter or turning right or whatever and show cyclists paying attention to the directional signals painted on most cycle tracks and lanes, maybe things might improve a bit. Who knows. But it kills me that RTE can give tons of cash away on the Late, Late, but couldn't cough up enough cash to advertise more public safety issues. RTE wouldn't be here if we weren't footing their over-priced bill. I saw today that they are claiming that they were profitable last year. WHAT A LAUGH!

More public service messages. More education!

Good post,

I totally agree that most drivers have no idea of the vulnerability of Cyclists nor do they understand that cyclists need more space than the width of a set of handlebars.

I must admit that I rarely use the cycle lanes on the side of the road. I consider them to be the most dangerous part of the road for cyclists, potholes and drains, pedestrians stepping of the path without looking, poorly placed street furniture and then the fact that the road surface there is often unrideable. I don't feel this makes me dangerous or a hazard, I cycle where people can best see me and I always try to behave in the most predicable manner possible. Its always possible to be a better, safer or more considerate cyclist just as it is a motorist, something everyone should strive for.

Also Public service messages such as the one you suggest are badly needed but they don't come out of RTE's budget, they are funded and produced by the RSA or similar and are merely aired by RTE.:)

goz83

I think cyclists are just seen as easy targets for abuse, or anyone on a bike for that matter (and I am a motorist). As someone who rode mopeds and a motorcycle for some time, it gives me an understanding of the dangers and challenges when you're on two wheels.

Actually, kinda funny story; I bought a Suzuki Katana moped from a mate a couple of years ago to fix up and sell on. I got insured on it for a couple of weeks for the laugh and on the way to the cinema I am passing a small group of 17-19 year old skangers at a bus stop when one of them launches half a bottle of youghurt drink at me. Furious, I pulled in and hopped off the bike and ran over to them shouting abuse. Sorry would have calmed me down, but instead the little pryk who threw the bottle murmured what I can only assume was an insult under his breath with a cheeky smirk....I saw red. Suffice to say his tooth mark is still engraved onto the front of the helmet. I tried to forget it, but the smell of yop didn't help all bleedin night.

el Bastardo

Lawr wrote: »

Once the sun sets at or before 5 and rises after nine, I'll be back on the street-lit roads to work every day. At the moment, I have the daylight option of taking an unlit short-cut, which is not heavily trafficked, though those using the road tend to exceed the speed limit by exponential factors. I've been subjected to a few careless drivers, but never on the order of those who travel the main street-lit roads. There, I can't even go there. All I can say is that there are people who are driving automobiles, trucks and vans who, whatever about them being ignorant of the rules that govern bikes and cars in relation to each other, they seem to have no sense of the vulnerability of cyclists and seem not to reason the possible consequences of their behaviour when the strafe at speed or cut cyclists off or throw bottles or shout or whatever the do to express their discontent with such an easy target.

But what I dread more, are cyclists who seemingly are of the mentality that what is moral and ethical is constituted by what is a reckless economy: the shortest distance between two points. There are many reasons not to use cycle lanes, but these people are one of them. They go the wrong way on single-track, direction-specific cycle lanes. They run red lights. They cycle on footpaths. They cycle in the road against traffic. They are as unpredictable as a jay-walker, and I honestly believe that 90% of them haven't a clue that they are doing anything wrong. Some of them justify their actions by reasoning that what they do is safest for them. (I can kind of understand this reasoning, though I'd ask them to think about how it puts others--usually pedestrians--in harm's way.) Some, I believe, are motivated by utter laziness. Just couldn't bother their arses to cross the road in order to get into the correct cycle lane. Some, related to the first, are just motivated by fear.

What destroys me is that there are no public safety commercials on television advertising driver/cycle safety messages: how to behave around each other. If there were safety commercials on tv advertising that drivers need to anticipate how cyclists might respond to potholes or deep sewer drain covers or leaves in the gutter or turning right or whatever and show cyclists paying attention to the directional signals painted on most cycle tracks and lanes, maybe things might improve a bit. Who knows. But it kills me that RTE can give tons of cash away on the Late, Late, but couldn't cough up enough cash to advertise more public safety issues. RTE wouldn't be here if we weren't footing their over-priced bill. I saw today that they are claiming that they were profitable last year. WHAT A LAUGH!

More public service messages. More education!

Those cyclists often know the rules and choose not to follow them. The way I see it, they're the same sort of characters as those who drive without due care for other road users; i.e. The don't give a sh!te about the rules, whatever the situation.

RSA ads only work if you're willing to watch them.

kirving

I shook my head earlier at a driver who stopped in the middle of the advanced stop line (area), so noone could use it. He wasn't caught out by the lights, because I saw him pull up, and the car behind was way back - so he could have reversed out of it. He wasn't in my way exactly, but the way he was stopped would force drivers to take the corner wide and cut off other cyclists. Cue the female passenger who saw me leaning out the windows to scream at me as I cycled past in the opposite direction.

Next up was someone who thought it would be a great idea to overtake me(doing about 30kph), immediately brake heavily, and then pull into a bus stop. Why not wait 5-10 seconds for me to pass it and pull in behind me?

rp

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Why not wait 5-10 seconds for me to pass it and pull in behind me?

Because it has been medically proven that to do so would cause the driver's genitalia to shrink significantly.

Qualitymark

seamus wrote: »

2 or 3 people over the last week make one of those, "I don't want you to be here" close overtakes followed by pulling in so close to the kerb that it must take effort to stay there.

Then I had one van beep at me before his overtake.

Another van was coming off the M50 as I happened

And finally a very old woman attempting to take an illegal right turn

So only the woman, and the old person, is identified as such, despite the others (presumably young and male or female) are not identified by age or sex? Sexist and ageist. Shame on you.

Lumen

Qualitymark wrote: »

So only the woman, and the old person, is identified as such, despite the others (presumably young and male or female) are not identified by age or sex? Sexist and ageist. Shame on you.

Get over yourself.

seamus

Qualitymark wrote: »

So only the woman, and the old person, is identified as such, despite the others (presumably young and male or female) are not identified by age or sex? Sexist and ageist. Shame on you.

I could also make a remark about the gentlemen driving a white van yesterday, who no doubt travel quite a bit in their spare time. Stop-go system in place, I stop at the red light, white van comes up behind and around me, blasting up the road. Then they have to jam on when they realise that there's oncoming traffic and nowhere to go. Cue them practically embedding the van into the hedge in a poor attempt to get out of the way while the guys working on the road scramble to move cones out of the way and let the oncoming traffic through.
By the time the oncoming traffic had cleared, I had a green light and was behind the white van going up the road. Morons.

Qualitymark

What is it about the white van drivers? My only guess is that they're working crazy shifts and are too exhausted and pressured to see the road properly.

My worst - or funniest, if it wasn't for the place it happened, experience was a driver racing around the corner at Harold's Cross on Emmet Bridge beside Delaney's cycle shop, blaring her horn at me, smoking and talking on her mobile phone. I sat there for a while when I reached a safe pavement, shaking, laughing and wondering how many hands she had.

She was making this turn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDe7Tkgs1jY

where the Ghost Bicycle is, in memory of Zu Zhang Wong, who was killed there.

smacl

Lawr wrote: »

Once the sun sets at or before 5 and rises after nine, I'll be back on the street-lit roads to work every day. At the moment, I have the daylight option of taking an unlit short-cut, which is not heavily trafficked, though those using the road tend to exceed the speed limit by exponential factors.

Alternatively, there's these

Stark

Qualitymark wrote: »

So only the woman, and the old person, is identified as such, despite the others (presumably young and male or female) are not identified by age or sex? Sexist and ageist. Shame on you.

Shame on him indeed. Doesn't he know it's only acceptable to bash young male drivers?

Qualitymark

Stark wrote: »

Shame on him indeed. Doesn't he know it's only acceptable to bash young male drivers?

@Stark, my point is that the only driver identified by age and sex (feeding into the sneering attitude to elderly women) was an old woman.

seamus

Qualitymark wrote: »

@Stark, my point is that the only driver identified by age and sex (feeding into the sneering attitude to elderly women) was an old woman. .

And here was me thinking you were being sarcastic with your remarks because nobody could be that anal.

The old woman was the only driver oncoming, all the rest were driving away from me. Hence why she's the only one I could provide any description of which wasn't a vague silhouette in a rear window.

I described her because saying that "the driver smiled creepily" doesn't quite capture the scene quite as well as a description of the driver.

You'll also notice that I described the rest of the drivers as "he" when they could easily have been women, because I have a natural tendency to assume that aggressive driving is perpetrated by men.

Maybe dial down your sensiometer next time instead of reading into things which aren't there.

Lumen

Qualitymark wrote: »

@Stark, my point is that the only driver identified by age and sex (feeding into the sneering attitude to elderly women) was an old woman.

That's not even remotely the same thing.

valleyoftheunos

Nearly taken off the bike this morning by a motorist is a large 4x4 (ironically enough with a bike on the back of it). and would appreciate others opinions on what happened.

4x4 and myself head down street, about 20 feet apart, me on the inside, We both turn left to join a larger street, they spot a parking space (nose to kerb) and decide to pull in, essentially carrying out a left handed U turn. I am still on the inside and they are now pulling in directly infront of me, they spot me at the last minute as I (breaking hard) pass the front left corner of the 4x4 by inches. Had we not both being travelling very slowly I would not have been able to avoid them.

I'm ashamed to say I swore at the driver immediately after but I was a bit shook and put out as I believed they had plenty of opportunity to see me if only they had looked and that their maneuver was unpredictable and not carried out in a safe manner.

However in similar situations I have heard the view expressed that when on the inside it is the cyclist's duty to anticipate and avoid other traffic making left turns so could it be the case that I perhaps shouldn't have been where I was or that I should have anticipated what they were doing and stopped earlier?

droidus

It depends how close you were when he turned, if he indicated, how quickly he turned etc... if you were beside him when he turned he's definitely at fault, but technically, if he was in front, you should have allowed a safe braking distance which would have allowed you to stop or overtake him on the right. Either way he should have checked his inside and let you pass.

seamus

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

However in similar situations I have heard the view expressed that when on the inside it is the cyclist's duty to anticipate and avoid other traffic making left turns so could it be the case that I perhaps shouldn't have been where I was or that I should have anticipated what they were doing and stopped earlier?

Nonsense.

You have a responsibility to yourself no matter where you are on the road to anticipate the actions of other drivers, but in a legal sense the obligation is 100% on the driver who is changing their road position. Before a driver turns left they must check for, and yield to, cyclists who may be behind them on the left.

Edit: Within the obvious bounds that droidus points out - if you're significantly behind the driver, then you should be able to stop in time, but if you're very close to him through circumstance, then the obligation is his.

Easy way to mitigate these things is that if the traffic is travelling about the same speed as you, then move right and sit into it as part of the line of traffic rather than potentially sitting in someone's blind spot.

smacl

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

However in similar situations I have heard the view expressed that when on the inside it is the cyclist's duty to anticipate and avoid other traffic making left turns so could it be the case that I perhaps shouldn't have been where I was or that I should have anticipated what they were doing and stopped earlier?

More survival trait than duty, as even though you were probably in the right, it doesn't help you when you get squashed by someone in the wrong.