Opinions on Educate Together

AD 80

I have signed my daughter up for Educate Together and I was wondering if any other parents could let me know their opinions on the school. I chose it because I don't want her in a school that is under the influence of the catholic church. I'm afraid, though, that in doing this I will be jepordising her chance of a proper education by sending her to a school that isn't well established and may not have the same facilities as other schools. I would love to be wrong about this and I would greatly appreciate any input. Thanks

spankysue

Hiya, I'm not a parent but I recently did work placement in ET and can tell you that your child would definitely get a proper education there. They might not look like much at the moment, but are moving to a new premises next year and I'm sure the facilities will improve when they move (Although there's nothing wrong with the facilities they have now).

It's a great learning environment for the children IMO, the teachers are wonderful and patient and the Principal is always accomodating for any parent who wants to meet with her, hope this helps

bradknowell

Friend has her daughter in educate together in wexford and she loves it. As in the mother loves it because its not religous. All I hear from her is its great because of the religious thing but she never mentions anything about the actual learning her child is getting

7upfree

bradknowell wrote: »

Friend has her daughter in educate together in wexford and she loves it. As in the mother loves it because its not religous. All I hear from her is its great because of the religious thing but she never mentions anything about the actual learning her child is getting

So its a good school because theres no religious ethos???????!!!!!!

bradknowell

7upfree wrote: »

So its a good school because theres no religious ethos???????!!!!!!

Basically my friend bangs on about it being good because her daughter doesn't have to do religion. That's all I can get out of her.
The friend is so anti religious , she's more ramming atheism down yer throat than anything.
So basiically all I know is its anti religion and never heard a thing about actual education.

That's only going by mates opinion.

Personly. I went to de la salle primary and secondary. In primary we had to learn all the religious stuff. Didn't really get hassle if we didn't Nd that's 20 years ago. Secondary , one of the lads wasn't religious and he just studied inrelugion class and had no problems.

Zillah

bradknowell wrote: »

So basiically all I know is its anti religion and never heard a thing about actual education.

Educate together are secular, not anti-religious, and your friend's hangups aren't exactly a useful response.

I did an interview with the principal of an educate together school once, the whole environment was great. Obviously I didn't take part in any of the actual education but there was a really good atmosphere. The common room had a big colourful poster on it that said "My Rights and Responsibilities" which is such a healthy and refreshing contrast to pictures of Jesus and lists of rules.

smcgiff

^^ educate together is not anti religion. It's neutral.

bradknowell

smcgiff wrote: »

^^ educate together is not anti religion. It's neutral.

I'm only going by my friends opinion. She is anti religion.
I agree with you.

bradknowell

Zillah wrote: »

Educate together are secular, not anti-religious, and your friend's hangups aren't exactly a useful response.

I did an interview with the principal of an educate together school once, the whole environment was great. Obviously I didn't take part in any of the actual education but there was a really good atmosphere. The common room had a big colourful poster on it that said "My Rights and Responsibilities" which is such a healthy and refreshing contrast to pictures of Jesus and lists of rules.

Yeah I agree with you. I'm just going my mates opinion.. personally idlove to know what they are really like and she is the only person I know who has a child n one .
Sorry bout spemling and stuff. Dirt on me touch screen and can't find it lol. Sorry

deisemum

My friend's children went to ET Waterford, one still there and she's happy with it. It is known as the hippy school and there are a number of families that could do with being introduced to soap and water but that's the families lifestyle choice rather than the school's.

They will get an education so don't worry on that but the one thing I've heard from a number of people in different schools is that children may get a bit of a bigger culture shock when they start secondary school where the ethos is completely different. I believe there are plans for an Educate Together secondary school.

One thing to be aware of is parental involvement is encouraged a lot more than in religious based schools which can be a good thing but it can also lead to some of the mouthier parents trying to push their own agenda. There's also a lot more fundraising.

Cabaal

deisemum wrote: »

....there are a number of families that could do with being introduced to soap and water but that's the families lifestyle choice rather than the school's.

Agreed, in fairness you can get that in any school,

They will get an education so don't worry on that but the one thing I've heard from a number of people in different schools is that children may get a bit of a bigger culture shock when they start secondary school where the ethos is completely different. I believe there are plans for an Educate Together secondary school.

They recently got the go ahead for opening two up in Dublin I believe and also with the changes regarding catholic patronage for schools looking to change there's a chance this may not be a issue for people in a few years.

wellboytoo

Not an opinion but an overview of a few families I know whose kid's go to Educate together, there is no such word as No in their vocabularly, such wild uncontrolled little tykes I have ever come accross. Not once have I heard a parent correct one of the children or tell them you cannot do that, even in someone else's house. The only common denominater these three families have is the kids go to the same school.
Or maybe I am getting more curmudgeonly

Jason Todd

wellboytoo wrote: »

Not an opinion but an overview of a few families I know whose kid's go to Educate together, there is no such word as No in there vocabularly, such wild uncontrolled little tykes I have ever come accross. Not once have I heard a parent correct one of the children or tell them you cannot do that, even in someone else's house. The only common denominater these three families have is the kids go to the same school.
Or maybe I am getting more curmudgeonly

Ha ha ha, I thought you were always curmudgeonly?! :pac:

newtotown

My son (6) has been going to Educate Together since we moved back to Ireland in February -- he's been in senior infants and is due to begin class 1 the end of August. While I'm strongly atheist, ET wasn't my first choice -- but all other schools were full and the waiting lists were ridiculously long. I needed to get my son in school so off to ET he went. I was put off by the ugly old building and lack of outside areas, but I'm told they're moving to a new building next year -- although I don't yet know where that's going to be. Hopefully not too far from the town as I don't drive and currently get the bus into town then walk.

At first he had a lot of trouble with some kids there and found it really difficult to settle in, but that has since blown over (save for one horrible kid whose mother doesn't know how to discipline him) and he's now happy there. He's learning at a steady rate. His reading and writing has come on leaps and bounds, his maths is brilliant, etc. I wish they would discuss more history & geography topics, as he was learning about all sorts in his last school in England, but I understand they don't begin all that until after senior infants. The focus these past few months has been very much on developing the language of the senior infants with writing, reading, comprehension, etc -- basically readying them for class 1 and "proper" learning. They're also encouraged to develop their own feelings, communication, etc -- to the point where there was even a section in his end of year report marking him on how well he effectively communicates his feelings. This, I feel, is a bit too "hippie" for my liking, but it doesn't seem to be doing him any damage and he's getting in a lot less arguments with other kids at school, so I suppose it's beneficial.

There isn't much by way of PE or any kind of physical activity yet -- I don't know if that's because they don't have the facilities in this crappy temp building, or because junior/senior infants aren't pushed into sports, but it's worth noting that when he comes home, he's full of pent-up energy and generally goes out with his mates in the estate here to run around for a good couple of hours. The only outside space is that tiny little courtyard in front of the school and kids that age need more than that to burn energy.

There are no religious teachings, obviously (which I'm glad about), and at age 6 he's already being taught sex/health education. *Not* about sex itself -- last month the topic was the womb. Some people will be put off by their kids learning that kind of thing so young, but I'm just as open with him at home, so it's not a bother for me personally.

The school does try to get the parents involved a lot. Whenever there are events going on, parents are asked to contribute. There are regular coffee mornings and informal parent meetings (I've never been to them). The "voluntary" contribution and price of books/materials can possibly be too steep for some parents, but I understand you can split it over several instalments. There isn't a school uniform to purchase and maintain -- kids wear their own clothes, which I think ends up more expensive in the long run. I'm having to buy my son new clothes so often because he wrecks them at school with various paints, grubbiness, scraping his knees on that concrete courtyard, etc.

The lunch rules are a bit annoying. There's a very strict list of things he's allowed and not allowed in his lunch and any breaking of that rule will result in a letter home. I don't feed my kid a lot of junk but some of what they consider junk is ridiculous and you have to get really creative in order to give your child a bit of variety.

Do I think my son is in the best school for his needs? It's impossible to tell in infants/senior infants. Class 1 & 2 will be telling and at the end of next year I will be assessing the situation and sitting him down to ask if he's happy to stay on there or if he'd rather change. He would still be young enough to have time to settle in a new school, but obviously I'd rather avoid that if I can, as he's already changed schools this year. But for now I'm happy with his progress and looking forward to seeing how he gets on over the coming year.

mike65

/\ interesting post,

They're also encouraged to develop their own feelings, communication, etc -- to the point where there was even a section in his end of year report marking him on how well he effectively communicates his feelings. This, I feel, is a bit too "hippie" for my liking, but it doesn't seem to be doing him any damage and he's getting in a lot less arguments with other kids at school, so I suppose it's beneficial.

I'd say that was something I could have done with as a little kid, glad they do this kind of thing.

---

Until ET are properly supported and develop secondary schools, the education environment is not going to be one worthy of a developed country.

angelfalling

My daughter will be starting this fall in the Educate Together and I'm delighted for her to be going there. We are not religious and I wasn't about to make her feel like she was some weird outcast. I'm not having her sit in a class teaching her what we believe are untruths, coming home and then having to explain that she can trust the school to teach her the truth about other stuff, but not that. Or worse, have her sit out of class (which I hear rarely get followed through on) and be left out. With Educate Together she'll learn about all the world religions and cultures without emphasis on any particular religion as being true. This is important enough to us to choose Educate Together. The ET in Waterford follows a fairly mainstream sort of curriculum-- many of the teachers are from a typical primary school background anyways. Honestly, without the ET option we'd likely attempt homeschooling (which isn't something I ever thought I'd consider). It's not all hippy-dippys, and honestly I'd rather my kids go to school with a few hippy types than the kind of kids they could go to school with. One thing you can feel good about is that most people have gone out of their way to put their kids names down for the ET, so they mostly all do care about their kids education and how the school is doing.
Your child will be at an advantage, not a disadvantage. The new building site is out the road toward gracedieu around carrickpherrish.

bookworms

angelfalling wrote: »

It's not all hippy-dippys, and honestly I'd rather my kids go to school with a few hippy types than the kind of kids they could go to school with. QUOTE]

So by your reasoning what "kind" of child goes to a school other than ET. Quite a sweeping statement there. Do I detect a hint of elitism?

I did not choose to send my children to ET, by your implication does that make them less desirable to be friends/class mates with your children?

The Bishop Basher

angelfalling wrote: »

It's not all hippy-dippys, and honestly I'd rather my kids go to school with a few hippy types than the kind of kids they could go to school with.

So those "kind of kids" only go to other schools ? Explain ?

angelfalling wrote: »

One thing you can feel good about is that most people have gone out of their way to put their kids names down for the ET, so they mostly all do care about their kids education and how the school is doing.

That's a ridiculous argument as it's the same for all parents regardless of the schools their children attend.

Finnbar01

Does ET adopt the child centred education model?

Finnbar01

angelfalling wrote: »

My daughter will be starting this fall in the Educate Together and I'm delighted for her to be going there. We are not religious and I wasn't about to make her feel like she was some weird outcast. I'm not having her sit in a class teaching her what we believe are untruths, coming home and then having to explain that she can trust the school to teach her the truth about other stuff, but not that. Or worse, have her sit out of class (which I hear rarely get followed through on) and be left out. With Educate Together she'll learn about all the world religions and cultures without emphasis on any particular religion as being true. This is important enough to us to choose Educate Together. The ET in Waterford follows a fairly mainstream sort of curriculum-- many of the teachers are from a typical primary school background anyways. Honestly, without the ET option we'd likely attempt homeschooling (which isn't something I ever thought I'd consider). It's not all hippy-dippys, and honestly I'd rather my kids go to school with a few hippy types than the kind of kids they could go to school with. One thing you can feel good about is that most people have gone out of their way to put their kids names down for the ET, so they mostly all do care about their kids education and how the school is doing.
Your child will be at an advantage, not a disadvantage. The new building site is out the road toward gracedieu around carrickpherrish.

Your post comes across as a bit snobbish really.

Are you really trying to say that no school in Waterford (besides ET) would have been suitable for your child?

Cabaal

angelfalling wrote: »

....One thing you can feel good about is that most people have gone out of their way to put their kids names down for the ET, so they mostly all do care about their kids education and how the school is doing.
Your child will be at an advantage, not a disadvantage.

Although your comment is going to (and clearly has) upset some users here from what your saying i can only assume you perhaps mean....

That when it comes to schools often parents just put their kid into the local school because its local and its what was done with them,

This is more often the case even if they (the parents) are not in anyway religious they will still send their kid to a religious school because its the "done thing" and they'll do the communion thing because its the done thing, again even though they don't believe a word of it.

This is kind of concerning when you think about it as your putting your kid into a system where they are expected to believe in a religion that you yourself do not believe in.

By going with ET you are taking a more active role and interest in your kids upbringing and the long term implications of your choice of school.

Least thats my take on your comment....

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Are you really tyring to say that you felt no school in Waterford would have been suitable for your child?

angelfalling mentioned she wasn't religious and didn't want their kid being an outcast in a religious school,

So unless you know of any other school in Waterford other then ET that doesn't push religion on the kids?

Jason Todd

Yes Cabaal, I reached them same conclusion from angelfallings post as you did. I don't think she meant anything in a snobbish way, just that any downsides she could see to ET are alleviated by certain upsides!

bookworms

Some parents are not in a position to bring their child miles out of their way to bring them to the local ET school. Sometimes the local school is the only option due to work commitments, child care and transport costs (where applicable).

I think when other patrons are in charge of more National Schools (like VECs or soon to be ETBs) then things should improve. Hopefully snobbish/elitist comments like these will be things of the past. I certaintly take great offense at previous comments implying that the kinds of students that don't go to ET are not as good as those who do.

Finnbar01

Cabaal wrote: »

Although your comment is going to (and clearly has) upset some users here from what your saying i can only assume you perhaps mean....

That when it comes to schools often parents just put their kid into the local school because its local and its what was done with them,

This is more often the case even if they (the parents) are not in anyway religious they will still send their kid to a religious school because its the "done thing" and they'll do the communion thing because its the done thing, again even though they don't believe a word of it.

This is kind of concerning when you think about it as your putting your kid into a system where they are expected to believe in a religion that you yourself do not believe in.

By going with ET you are taking a more active role and interest in your kids upbringing and the long term implications of your choice of school.

Least thats my take on your comment....



angelfalling mentioned she wasn't religious and didn't want their kid being an outcast in a religious school,

So unless you know of any other school in Waterford other then ET that doesn't push religion on the kids?

AFAIK, religous education is mandatory in Ireland.

ET schools do teach religion, but they don't stick with one, they teach several of them.

Cabaal

Finnbar01 wrote: »

AFAIK, religous education is mandatory in Ireland.

ET schools do teach religion, but they don't stick with one, they teach several of them.

Not sure if its the case, but to be honest even if it is then ET would still be the most suitable school for a non-religious family so they simply become aware of other faiths rather then one being forced upon their child.

Cabaal

Jason Todd wrote: »

Yes Cabaal, I reached them same conclusion from angelfallings post as you did.

Actually just to add, another aspect of ET that could be a factor over other schools is the whole parents being involved, sure parents can choose not to be but if your looking at ET it might be a factor.

with standard schools many (certainly not all) parents simply see them as the next step from a creche...that is somewhere to just put their kid while at work.

Of course what many parents fail to understand is that both on a creche level and primary level education is important as it helps a child develop and parental involvement can also be very important too.

bookworms wrote: »

Some parents are not in a position to bring their child miles out of their way to bring them to the local ET school. Sometimes the local school is the only option due to work commitments, child care and transport costs (where applicable).

Your spot on, outside of many citys and major towns there are simply no ET schools to look at as an option.

I think when other patrons are in charge of more National Schools (like VECs or soon to be ETBs) then things should improve.

With any luck yes as things change choices will improve, its only right in our modern multicultural society,

Finnbar01

Cabaal wrote: »

Not sure if its the case, but to be honest even if it is then ET would still be the most suitable school for a non-religious family so they simply become aware of other faiths rather then one being forced upon their child.

I disagree, if you don't want one religion to be forced on your child, why would you want several?

Cabaal wrote: »

With any luck yes as things change choices will improve, its only right in our modern multicultural society,

How is that working out for the UK?

Avox

From what I've heard about the ET schools, if I had children I'd much rather send them to a religious school. Sure, you may not have the same beliefs as the school and feel they're pushing their beliefs on your child. But realistically, by sending your child to an ET school because you're anti-religious and want your child to be that way is exactly the same thing you feel a religious school would do?

I'd much rather a child go to a normal school, learn religion and then have their own choice on whether they want to believe it or not, than send them to a newly formed school which in reality is going to outcast them in secondary school, as the ethos that an ET school follows is vastly different to regular primary and secondary schools.

angelfalling

Don't take my comments out of context. This person wants to hear reasons to feel good about their choice with ET. I've given it to them. ET isn't one of the schools many people treat as their "local" so they don't just go with it. I don't mean to say that other parents don't pick and choose their schools, just that ET parents generally have. I don't mean to say that there are horrible children at other national schools (bookworm, when did I say that ET kids are better??), just that the reputation of having a few "hippy dippy" kids isn't a bad thing! Surely there is worse to have your kids around?

And no, there would be no other school I feel would be suitable besides the ET for my child, because we are not religious. Like I said before, obviously I encourage education about religions, but not indoctrination into one that we are not a part of.

Avox, non-religious is not the same as anti-religious. ET is secular. They do not preach against religion, they just don't indoctrinate children to believe one religion is correct. You are so very wrong in saying a child going to a "normal" school (by the way, ET is a national school just like all the Catholic schools, its perfectly normal with a normal curriculum) gives children the ability to choose whatever they want to believe--- it TELLS them what to believe, and if you are lucky your child might question that. ET doesn't tell any child to be religious OR non-religious, they leave those sort of decisions up to parents to address at home. On a side, Finnbarr-- ET just informs children about various religions in relation to culture... so I don't really feel its indoctrination in any way to be informed.

ET kids rarely have any trouble continuing on to secondary level education in other schools... its not that vastly different of an approach. How would you know, exactly, given the fact you say "if you had kids"? Given the growth in the number of ET schools kids, you can see the success rate has been just fine.

Cabaal

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I disagree, if you don't want one religion to be forced on your child, why would you want several?

There's a difference between being "aware" of religions and having a religion being forced upon you and other religions basically labeled as nonsense.

How is that working out for the UK?

UK is a different kettle of fish, vast majority of the influx of cultures into the uk were massive and due to the british empire.

seavill

I really feel people put too much emphasis on the effect teachings in primary or secondary have on kids. It is down to the parents view and interaction with religion rather than what they are taught in school.

I am a secondary teacher and last year we were up in the church for I think a Christmas mass or something and there were some 15 year olds that didnt know what to do with communion bread, they kept it in their hands and looked around to see what to do.
These are children that went to a religious primary and secondary school.

I did also and my mother brought us to mass every Saturday until i was probably 16, however teachings etc were not forced on us. I had no interest in being there and have not gone since as for me it is not part of my life.
Again I cam from a religious primary and secondary.

Yes one religion is focused on in "standard" primary schools, however in reality it makes little or no difference to us when we grow older. We do not feel forced to follow the "rules" as someone mentioned earlier.

I have spoken with an ET teacher from Dublin in the past and one point they made to me was that some of the ET parents were so obsessed with being atheist that they were quite forceful with their views and were actually not one bit open to other view points on religious and other things outside of religion, almost being contradictory towards the ethos they say they stand for. (not sure is it the same in Waterford but it was just an interesting viewpoint in relation to the religious aspect of the school form his point of view)

deisemum

seavill wrote: »

I really feel people put too much emphasis on the effect teachings in primary or secondary have on kids. It is down to the parents view and interaction with religion rather than what they are taught in school.

I am a secondary teacher and last year we were up in the church for I think a Christmas mass or something and there were some 15 year olds that didnt know what to do with communion bread, they kept it in their hands and looked around to see what to do.
These are children that went to a religious primary and secondary school.

I did also and my mother brought us to mass every Saturday until i was probably 16, however teachings etc were not forced on us. I had no interest in being there and have not gone since as for me it is not part of my life.
Again I cam from a religious primary and secondary.

Yes one religion is focused on in "standard" primary schools, however in reality it makes little or no difference to us when we grow older. We do not feel forced to follow the "rules" as someone mentioned earlier.

I have spoken with an ET teacher from Dublin in the past and one point they made to me was that some of the ET parents were so obsessed with being atheist that they were quite forceful with their views and were actually not one bit open to other view points on religious and other things outside of religion, almost being contradictory towards the ethos they say they stand for. (not sure is it the same in Waterford but it was just an interesting viewpoint in relation to the religious aspect of the school form his point of view)

Yeah that's partly what I was refering to re the mouthy parents with their own agenda.

seavill

deisemum wrote: »

Yeah that's partly what I was refering to re the mouthy parents with their own agenda.

Now just to clear up before anyone jumps on me I DID NOT SAY THAT.

I just said that his experience was (and I am discussing this in relation to the religious discussion not in relation to a certain type of parents or kids) that although some would say they are open minded to a lot and would consider themselves atheists, they are in fact not as open minded as they would like to believe.

AD 80

Thanks for all your comments they've been really helpful especially yours newtotown. For those of you defending religion.......no comment. To the rest of you thanks again.

mike65

Christ on a bike - you'd think Atheism was a crime committed by cranks reading some of this thread.

Schools should be non-religious in every aspect, keep Church (any church) in Church or the home.

wmpdd3

Both me and my partner are Atheist, I'm currently looking into schools for my 2 kids. I put their name down in the 2 local schools, both catholic schools, neither one made any issue of the fact the kids aren't christened.

I'm more inclined to look for a school that's co-ed more than non-denominational.

2 of my friends schooled their non- christened children, in Waterford schools without too much hassle, so I'll try too.

To me the school seems to adopt a Montessori type view of education, they can be a great start in life.

Where is the Educate Together school currently?

tar_man

I know someone who taught at an ET. They really liked it at first, but it wore a bit thin after a while.

With an ET you get a broad mix of religious/atheist backgrounds. However you get a very narrow socio-economic background. I went to a bog-standard national school (Catholic, but not run by an order) and to De La Salle secondary. There were non-Catholics in the class who got along grand.

I think I benefited from mixing from people from poorer and richer backgrounds. I'm fairly well off now, but I have a strong sense of social solidarity. I know other people weren't as lucky as me, and in my own way I try to make the world better. I consider myself a (non-militant, non-anti-religion) atheist, but I think the core Christian message is a good one. Sure I had to learn catechism, but if one message was drilled into us it was love your neighbour.

I suppose in Dublin its different. You can sort all national schools by social class, but as Waterford is so small the standard primary schools will have a good social mix.

I agree with the above point about co-ed. I know of someone who went to all-boys school up to 18, and found it hard to adjust to talking to girls. That social skill just passed him by. It probably set him back a few years.

We learn so much in school, not just maths or religion, but how to deal with other people. I think a standard school is a much closer reflection of societal as a whole than the ETs.

Also, I'm strongly in favour of school uniforms. I don't want my children to think their clothes are an expression of their individuality. I consider that a bit shallow. They can learn to express themselves in their art lessons, English/Irish essays, school plays and so on. To me a school uniform doesn't say 'we are all the same' it says 'we are all equal'.

There are benefits to an ET, but for me they are outweighed by the costs.

Finnbar01

mike65 wrote: »

Christ on a bike - you'd think Atheism was a crime committed by cranks reading some of this thread.

Schools should be non-religious in every aspect, keep Church (any church) in Church or the home.

What if parents want their child to receive religious instruction in school?

mike65

Finnbar01 wrote: »

What if parents want their child to receive religious instruction in school?

Send them to a private religious denominated school (I should have clarified that aspect earlier).

Kracken

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I disagree, if you don't want one religion to be forced on your child, why would you want several?



How is that working out for the UK?

I would agree with Cabaal on this, its about allowing clear understanding of all religions and parent's wishes. It's about allowing a school to teach children and shape their minds without the influence of one religion.

A lot of Irish schools are still influenced by the church (catholic, protestant, etc) and their parish, therefore their doctrine can often times overrule the curriculum being proposed.

Therefore, teaching a child either about all faiths or none, equates to the same thing. Balanced and unbiased opinions of other people beliefs.

In addition; it's about the freedon of choice, granted some parents have no choice but to send their child / children to a religous school, but those who can choose should not be seen as outcasts or having airs above their station.


I have a daughter who I will be sending to ET, when she is old enough. I have already been asked in other schools if she has been christened and I think that if a school is state-funded then, religion should be a choice-subject like physics or accountancy. As plenty of Muslim, Hindu, and other religious families pay taxes that fund schools, who don't cater for their religion. Therefore ET is their only option.

Finnbar01

mike65 wrote: »

Send them to a private religious denominated school (I should have clarified that aspect earlier).

What about parents who are taxpayers and want their children to be educated in a religious school? We can't just ignore them.

deisemum

Finnbar01 wrote: »

What about parents who are taxpayers and want their children to be educated in a religious school? We can't just ignore them.

They can have their religious instruction after school. I think the majority of parents would like a choice.

Dan133269

Finnbar01 wrote: »

What about parents who are taxpayers and want their children to be educated in a religious school? We can't just ignore them.

What about parents who are taxpayers and want their children to be educated in a school which is not religious? You can't just ignore them either.

Who wins out in this situation? Well, no one has to lose out I would say.

The solution, I would posit, would be to have public taxpayer schools completely devoid of religious instruction, and then parents would be free to instruct their child in a particular religion in their own time, expense and discretion as they so wish. That would be secularism.

If someone is so hell-bent on educating their child in a religious environment, then they should provide for it themselves, imo.

By deferring to Church demands, the State merely breeds a sectarian religious attitude in the domain of public education.

There is no good reason why the State should provide parents, at public
expense, with schools for their children from which other children are
excluded simply because of their religion. Canon law does not request merely that the State establish schools in which the religious belief of young Catholics are respected . . . Instead it demands that the State finance schools from which children and teachers of other religious denominations are excluded because, by their presence in any given school in sufficiently large numbers, the ethos of the school is changed

D Clarke, ‘Education, the State and Sectarian Schools’

Finnbar01

deisemum wrote: »

They can have their religious instruction after school. I think the majority of parents would like a choice.

I have nothing against choice whatsoever. AFAIK, surveys carry out suggested that a majority of parents want their children to recieve religious instruction in school. If that is their choice, then the state has a duty to uphold it.

BTW, I want to be absolutely clear I have nothing against ET or other non denominational schools.

username123

Finnbar01 wrote: »

What about parents who are taxpayers and want their children to be educated in a religious school? We can't just ignore them.

What has paying tax got to do with religious indoctrination?

Sully

I don't like the Waterford Educate Together after the way someone I know was treated during a work experience program their from college. It had nothing to do with the kids, but I wouldn't feel comfortable sending a child of mine or recommend it for those personal reasons. If similar happened anywhere, I would feel the same.

In general, I have no doubt the the Educate Together ethos is well founded and a fantastic idea. But, I don't see the big deal with letting your kids being thought the biggest religion in Ireland and probably the world. Its still education and most parents will force the "No Religion" on their kids just as much as a school would put religion onto a kids shoulders.

We need a school that teaches about all religions and let the kids, not the parents or the school, make up their mind. Yes I feel schools should be forced to separate religion so that the school covers more than just their one religion. Yes it should be optional whether or not you wish to go and do communions etc. But that's a reform this government must tackle. Creating new schools that abandon religion and are more free spirit approach to teaching isn't the way to go - its a cop out by the state to avoid challenging the church. We do not need a two tier education system.

Ireland is a very religious country, whether people like it or not, and while it was much more acceptable years ago for such schools the world has changed with new beliefs, religions and cultures which we need to welcome and are slowly doing as a nation. A good start would be in schools, and not creating a new type of school.

username123

Sully wrote: »

But, I don't see the big deal with letting your kids being thought the biggest religion in Ireland and probably the world.

Perhaps not everyone wants their children taught that homosexuality is a sin or that sex outside of marriage is a sin or that contraception is sinful or that there is such a thing as an all seeing all knowing supernatural entity running the show and he knows if you have been bold and if you have, you might go to a place where there is a lot of fire and be tortured for all eternity after you die. Id certainly rather see my taxes paying for science and the teaching of rational enquiry instead of religious indoctrination.

Or that all other religions are false as this breeds intolerance and hatred.

Finnbar01

Dan133269 wrote: »

Who wins out in this situation? Well, no one has to lose out I would say.

The solution, I would posit, would be to have public taxpayer schools completely devoid of religious instruction, and then parents would be free to instruct their child in a particular religion in their own time, expense and discretion as they so wish. That would be secularism.

But again if we have taxpaying parents who want their children instructed in a particular religion, that's what the state has to provide for.

If someone is so hell-bent on educating their child in a religious environment, then they should provide for it themselves, imo.

They are providing it for themselves, through paying taxes and supporting the school through other financial means.

By deferring to Church demands, the State merely breeds a sectarian religious attitude in the domain of public education.

I don't agree with this. There is absolutely no evidence that we have a sectarian problem here in the Republic.

AFAIk, some acrhbishop came out recently and welcomed the Labours partys' recommendation of having more non RC schools.

bradknowell

username123 wrote: »

Perhaps not everyone wants their children taught that homosexuality is a sin or that sex outside of marriage is a sin or that contraception is sinful or that there is such a thing as an all seeing all knowing supernatural entity running the show and he knows if you have been bold and if you have, you might go to a place where there is a lot of fire and be tortured for all eternity after you die. Id certainly rather see my taxes paying for science and the teaching of rational enquiry instead of religious indoctrination.

Or that all other religions are false as this breeds intolerance and hatred.

Everyone I know went to a religious school growing up and most of them seemed to turn out ok. Some of them are even gay omg , I know, its mental isnt it?
To be honest I find all this anti religion talk is just getting annoying. Im an atheist and find it annoying lol. religion isnt the only thing in "normal" schools. Any fella's that I went to school with who where not religious just studied or arsed around for the class. Never had any problems with any of us getting onto them.

wellboytoo

Did ya hear about the agnostic Dyslexic insomniac?, he used to lay in bed at night wondering was there a Dog.

username123

Finnbar01 wrote: »

But again if we have taxpaying parents who want their children instructed in a particualr religion, that's what the state has to provide for.

Finnbar01 - what exactly is the connection between paying taxes and religious indoctrination? I just dont understand it?

Why should the state have to provide for religious instruction in the public education system?