Apartment to rent house to a tenant paying using Rental Allowance

Sheep Shagger

First time at renting a property to someone receiving RA, would appreciate some help for in terms of how and when things work by someone who may have been there done that.

Agreed to rent the property to a couple with a child last Wednesday, they were supposed to get the go ahead from the RA people on Friday but it seems thats now tomorrow when they are due to go in and see them.

To date we have not signed anything nor has any deposit been received. When I asked for an update this afternoon the said they due to receive the deposit and a letter for me tomorrow (both from Social Welfare).

How does it normally work? Will the letter confirm that they are receiving X amount? I asked for the money to be paid directly to my account so will that be included in the letter also?

I'm slightly concerned the the tenants might think I;m renting it to them under the RAS programme (although they never mentioned that at our intial meeting) all they said was that they are getting X from RA and that the rent I am asking is just under that amount.

Presumably the letter will state a date they can move in ? Is this normal ?

Any help would be greatfully appreciated.

Thanks,

Graces7

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

First time at renting a property to someone receiving RA, would appreciate some help for in terms of how and when things work by someone who may have been there done that.

Agreed to rent the property to a couple with a child last Wednesday, they were supposed to get the go ahead from the RA people on Friday but it seems thats now tomorrow when they are due to go in and see them.

To date we have not signed anything nor has any deposit been received. When I asked for an update this afternoon the said they due to receive the deposit and a letter for me tomorrow (both from Social Welfare).

How does it normally work? Will the letter confirm that they are receiving X amount? I asked for the money to be paid directly to my account so will that be included in the letter also?

I'm slightly concerned the the tenants might think I;m renting it to them under the RAS programme (although they never mentioned that at our intial meeting) all they said was that they are getting X from RA and that the rent I am asking is just under that amount.

Presumably the letter will state a date they can move in ? Is this normal ?

Any help would be greatfully appreciated.

Thanks,

Bit puzzled re the amount as all on RA have to pay part of the rent themselves? We pay E30 a week; is it different because they have a child? Surely not..

So the RA will come direct to you but a separate payment from them. ( we get the RA paid to us then send one payment to the LL)

Sheep Shagger

I presume the amount RA will pay will be the rent amount less EUR 30 per week.

When you first moved in how did it work, is it just a matter of we both sign the paperwork and they move in (as presumably its been 'approved' by Social Welfare)? Is their an 'approval' process for the property as such?

Graces7

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

I presume the amount RA will pay will be the rent amount less EUR 30 per week.

When you first moved in how did it work, is it just a matter of we both sign the paperwork and they move in (as presumably its been 'approved' by Social Welfare)? Is their an 'approval' process for the property as such?

It can vary from area to area.

If they have rented privately before, then that is easier. Also they will surely be on the council housing list. And yes, the CWO will visit the house; they will be in by then.

Also the council wil visit the house when they are in.

I always found the deposit and first month's rent and in Cork had to find the rent for nearly 7 months before RA clicked in.

They have to be living there to be approved. Well that was so in my case. They cannot get RA without an address.

Sometimes the CWO will pay the deposit; you need to see their paperwork which theyhave promised. Yes you wil have forms to fill in re RA; your PSNI number etc.

Have you no paperwork from them at all yet?

Sheep Shagger

No paperwork at all. . .have asked but they said they wanted to send it all in at once.

I'm hoping they can move in relatively quickly.

Guess all will be revealed tomorrow - as I say I'm new to this so wasn't sure what was the norm.

fussyonion

The CWO/council doesn't visit the home.

Well they never did when I was receiving Rent Allowance.
When I went to the CWO to claim RA, I had to fill in the necessary forms etc and then I got a call from the CWO to say it had been accepted and I would receive the RA cheque in the post.
(It took about two weeks from my applying for it, to actually receiving the cheque). The CWO (well my local one) know the tenant is in a hurry to move in; they're generally quick at processing claims.

The cheque can be made out to you-as far as I know, you'll have to get your tenant to inform the CWO of this choice and the cheque should be made out to you and posted to your address.

Rent Allowance was fine for me but beware, almost every year when the Budget comes out, the Rent Allowance is almost always reduced and if that happens, your tenant will most likely be seeking a reduction in rent from you.
Not trying to put you off, just warning you.

Shelli2

I'm in Dublin 11, applied and was accepted just over two weeks ago, and the CWO did call out to the house to check the suitability of the property and he then confirmed that we would receive a cheque. However, still have no paperwork from the CWO, no idea how much I will receive (when he called he said he hadn't don't the calculations yet and would be in touch) and when the cheque will come. They don't answer their phones, I've left at least 3 messages everyday for the last week, and I work part time, during their office hours! At this rate, I'm going to have to take time off work and lose out on wages to go and see what's going on. My rent is due 1st August and I have no clue what's going on!!!

Every area seems to have a different process and some don't even deal with the CWO, they are now dealt with by a central office.

Victor

fussyonion wrote: »

The CWO/council doesn't visit the home.

Well they never did when I was receiving Rent Allowance.

I get the impression they invariably do, to check the property is appropriate to the tenant's needs and that the tenant is resident. Although if they know the tenant and the property / landlord, I suppose the need for a visit becomes less pressing.

Sheep Shagger

Not getting a lot of dialogue with the potential tenant (any updates would be great), am starting to wonder if I should pull the plug on this and try and find someone else

Would prefer not to wait another week + to gt them in

fussyonion

It's not right that the tenant isn't keeping you informed.
I know when we had delays with certain stuff, we'd always tell the Landlord-it's only right.
I can feel your frustration, OP. Call your tenant and tell them you need to be kept in the loop.

Sheep Shagger

Mmmm after chasing the tenant i'm told a letter will be ready or me towards the end of this week. Based on any previous experience out there does this mean thy would be able to move in this weekend? Will the tenant have been advised that yet? Have asked this numerous times but am not getting a reponse.

Am starting to have my doubts on this couple

fussyonion

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Mmmm after chasing the tenant i'm told a letter will be ready or me towards the end of this week. Based on any previous experience out there does this mean thy would be able to move in this weekend? Will the tenant have been advised that yet? Have asked this numerous times but am not getting a reponse.

Am starting to have my doubts on this couple

As soon as your tenants have been approved for Rent Allowance, they can move in. You need to find out if they have been approved.
Then there's no reason why they cant move in. Their first RA cheque will come on the last week of the month.

Sheep Shagger

Thanks, thought there was a delay from the time letter is issued (presume that's the same time they are 'approved')....so should hopefully have them in this weekend.

Have asked for the rent to be paid directly to me, havnt got confirmation of that yet, presume that will be in the letter?

January

There's no way I'd be getting those tennants in. They have no idea of the process. They have to be living in the house before they can even apply for the rent allowance. There are no letters. You have to sign a form and they have to send it into the Rent Allowance section (or bring it down to the CWO) and then they get approved. In Blanchardstown this can take up to 3/4 months.

They're not being very forthcoming with information BEFORE they move in, why would you trust them WHEN they move in?

Graces7

January wrote: »

There's no way I'd be getting those tennants in. They have no idea of the process. They have to be living in the house before they can even apply for the rent allowance. There are no letters. You have to sign a form and they have to send it into the Rent Allowance section (or bring it down to the CWO) and then they get approved. In Blanchardstown this can take up to 3/4 months.

They're not being very forthcoming with information BEFORE they move in, why would you trust them WHEN they move in?

You beat me to some of this

OP; please read this.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

However, it may be that they are facing delays etc and are scared of losing the accommodation.

Maybe face them down over this then decide..if thereis a child involved especially..

It has confused me as I was always already resident when I applied; I thought that this was needed and as my application took 7 months to process...

Sheep Shagger

Thanks,

There is a child involved, is it a case that the area processing the application does it different to elsewhere (is Tallaght)?

I definitely won't be handing over the keys until the lease is signed and I have that paperwork from Social Welfare, I'm told I will have a letter and a cheque (for the deposit) on Thursday?

fussyonion

Deposit?!
I don't think you'll be getting a deposit from the CWO.
When I was on RA, I had to stump up the deposit myself and then wait til the end of the month to receive my first RA cheque.
The HSE pay rent in arrears, i.e at the end of the month the cheque will arrive to cover the month that's passed

Graces7

fussyonion wrote: »

Deposit?!
I don't think you'll be getting a deposit from the CWO.
When I was on RA, I had to stump up the deposit myself and then wait til the end of the month to receive my first RA cheque.
The HSE pay rent in arrears, i.e at the end of the month the cheque will arrive to cover the month that's passed

With respect, you keep saying "when I was on RA" ; as things have changed recently, this is causing more confusion.

CWOs do have discretion to pay a deposit where there is need. This has come up before on this forum.

Graces7

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Thanks,

There is a child involved, is it a case that the area processing the application does it different to elsewhere (is Tallaght)?

I definitely won't be handing over the keys until the lease is signed and I have that paperwork from Social Welfare, I'm told I will have a letter and a cheque (for the deposit) on Thursday?

We found the deposit and rent etc with great difficulty but we managed.

Did you read the site I sent? No use getting opinions....

See what happens, knowing that the system grinds very slowly indeed at times. And that can be hard on people.

But no way let them in without the money else that will set the tone for the future.

fussyonion

Graces7 wrote: »

With respect, you keep saying "when I was on RA" ; as things have changed recently, this is causing more confusion.

CWOs do have discretion to pay a deposit where there is need. This has come up before on this forum.

Um I've only come off RA in the last few weeks actually..doubt anything's changed in that amount of time.

Graces7

fussyonion wrote: »

Um I've only come off RA in the last few weeks actually..doubt anything's changed in that amount of time.

I know, but maybe when you went on to it it was easier.. it is ***** hard these days as they are clamping down more and more; see State Benefit forum...

Even since I applied, less than two years ago, things have changed. But I am already registered etc. I only know re the changes through this forum and the web site I put up

convert

If you have doubts about the tenant, then it's better not to go ahead with it. I'd advise this for any tenant, regardless of whether or not they're in receipt of RA. If a tenant isn't keeping their LL in the loop before they move in it's unlikely that they'll be any more forthcoming after they've moved in.

You could try contact the local CWO for your area and ask them for more information regarding the process for that area. Citizen's Advice should also give more information.

Shelli2

+1 on what Convert said. It seems each area may be different.

As said before I'm in Dublin 11, and the process there (at least in my case) was as follows. I had to find first months rent and deposit myself, found property and moved in 1st July. Visited CWO on 3rd of July with all documents needed (I had already been on housing list and had letter for this from council). CWO confirm verbally that subject to house check I was approved. Visited house on 6th of July and confirmed that I was approved. Had no letter or paperwork at all since, and cheque arrives today 1st Aug. Cheques are prepared and sent on last Tuesday of every month according to my CWO.

I would contact your local CWO to check on process in the area. Although this may mean a visit yourself as getting them on the phone seems impossible.

Sheep Shagger

Thanks for the posts/advice folks.

Seems it varies from area to area (the procedures), dialogue has improved with the tenant, suspect they may have been worried about losing the accomodation.

Am due to get documents today from the tenant about the RA, will see what they say...

Zulu

Hope it works out for you, but madness is all I can think...

I'd never let them in. As has been posted here, if they're happy to keep you in the dark now, why would you think they'll be any different when they move in (and it'll be neigh on impossible to get them out).

Sheep Shagger

Zulu wrote: »

Hope it works out for you, but madness is all I can think...

I'd never let them in. As has been posted here, if they're happy to keep you in the dark now, why would you think they'll be any different when they move in (and it'll be neigh on impossible to get them out).

Madness? Is that not a bit harsh?

Like I say, I suspect they were worried the might lose the accommodation, they have been good dialogue wise since I had a word with them (intact they've been forthcoming with updates now).

References all check out with no issues in the past as well.

Zulu

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Madness? Is that not a bit harsh?

Not really Sheep Shagger - have a look over on "ask about money" or at other threads here about dodgy tenants - it'd put a chill down your spine. You simply can't be too careful with your biggest asset (your house). Perhaps I might be a little paranoid, but I wouldn't rent to someone if they were being a) cagey, & b) stringing me along.

If someone is interested in my property, I take a deposit straight away. And I agree when they are "renting from", ie when they start making rental payments. I don't offer a window or more than two weeks here - every week it's not rented, is a week I'm out of pocket. I wouldn't have entertained these tenants at all - that said, thats just me. But tbh, as a tenant myself, I'm only looking for standards I apply to myself. If I want to rent a place, I have the deposit ready, and the rent ready. I'm open and honest with the LL.

I really do hope this all works out for you!

Sheep Shagger

Fair point, I'd be the same as you in terms of having everything lined up, in saying that Ive never been at the mercy of Social Welfare etc to get things done (their paperwork etc). This is their first time for RA as far as I can tell.

I had a good feeling when I met them in person, the references check out and the property is near their family which is why they were interested, will check out the paperwork when it comes in today.

Graces7

Zulu wrote: »

Not really Sheep Shagger - have a look over on "ask about money" or at other threads here about dodgy tenants - it'd put a chill down your spine. You simply can't be too careful with your biggest asset (your house). Perhaps I might be a little paranoid, but I wouldn't rent to someone if they were being a) cagey, & b) stringing me along.

If someone is interested in my property, I take a deposit straight away. And I agree when they are "renting from", ie when they start making rental payments. I don't offer a window or more than two weeks here - every week it's not rented, is a week I'm out of pocket. I wouldn't have entertained these tenants at all - that said, thats just me. But tbh, as a tenant myself, I'm only looking for standards I apply to myself. If I want to rent a place, I have the deposit ready, and the rent ready. I'm open and honest with the LL.

I really do hope this all works out for you!

Says it all. Rent has to come first; that first hard wnter here was a huge struggle waiting 7 months for RA but I made sure rent was paid. It is priority. It left very little for food and fuel but if they are on SW they will get help with that.

Front with them and you will have a form to fill in. With all three places I had RA that was done on the first part of the application and it is this that worries me here. An application cannot be processed without the landlord form as that confirms rent level etc.

BostonB

I think you'd be mad not to get a deposit (one months rent) and one months rent in advance of anyone moving in. Thats for your protection. In my experience the RA took about 5~6 months to set up and they didn't cover the deposit.

On a completely separate issue, I would a mile from any one who was poor at communicating at the start.

Sheep Shagger

Ok, spoke with the prospective tenant last night.

An supposed to be getting some paperwork (she said she will fax it) by 10am this morning, apparently she has been 'approved' and this is in writing, if I fill out the paperwork and return it today I will have the deposit and one months rent in my bank account on Tuesday....

This is South Dublin, doesn't help there are different procedures in different areas...but does anyone know if this sounds right?

An going to make a final decision once I see the document at or before 10am.

the_syco

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

if I fill out the paperwork and return it today I will have the deposit and one months rent in my bank account on Tuesday....

But the tenant doesn't move in without you first getting the above, yes?

Sheep Shagger

the_syco wrote: »

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

if I fill out the paperwork and return it today I will have the deposit and one months rent in my bank account on Tuesday....

But the tenant doesn't move in without you first getting the above, yes?

Correct.

But I need to make a final call I think after I see the 'approval' in writing...I can't keep on waiting

Sheep Shagger

Got another excuse about a delay in getting docs - pulled the plug.

A waste of a week and a half on these people

Zulu

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

A waste of a week and a half on these people

...which is why you don't waste time with such people. Deposit upon booking! Lesson learned and all the rest of it.

Best of luck finding more tenants.

Sheep Shagger

Zulu wrote: »

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

A waste of a week and a half on these people

...which is why you don't waste time with such people. Deposit upon booking! Lesson learned and all the rest of it.

Best of luck finding more tenants.

Yep think I was being too nice in trusting them

fussyonion

Sorry it didn't work out.

I can understand the frustration on both sides.
I know dealing with CWO's and RA can be so stressful for the tenant especially when things don't happen quick enough and they panic they're going to lose their new place, but I also understand your frustration at not being kept in the loop from the beginning and now, after all your patience, it hasn't worked out.

Hope you find new tenants soon!

convert

Sorry things didn't work out with this tenant, but hopefully you'll find someone who's much better and more reliable. And it'll have given you a tough crash course in what can go wrong with tenants. Best of luck with the new tenant(s).

Sheep Shagger

Thanks, I can understand the frustration too (the tenant being scared of losing the place as so any landlords won't take them), if they'd just kept the lines of communication open.

Kept some of the daft emails that came in after I thought it had been taken, two people still looking so have them lined up for viewings tomorrow

MistyCheese

I appreciate your frustration at having to take a few steps backwards but better this bit of hassle now than allowing the tenants to move in and risking untold hassle if something were to go wrong during the tenancy.

Best of luck tomorrow.

The_Conductor

OP- for your information- it is not normal for the CWO to pay a deposit for a tenant, they do have access to a hardship fund that they can access in exceptional circumstances, which in some cases has been used to pay deposits, but its not the norm, and highly irregular.

Best of good luck finding a new tenant.

Sheep Shagger

Thanks for the advice folks.

Have found another (what I think) are a suitable couple, they will be paying rent using RA but have the deposit and first months rent in advance saved.

As i've said earlier I'm new to this RA thing, quick question is there much chance the perspective tenant won't get RA. They are a married couple with a very small child, one of them has received RA before. Obviously don't want to sign them up etc then find out they are not eligible. . .

January

I'd go ahead and move them in, but make sure you sign the rent allowance forms with them before you hand over any keys.

Zamboni

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Thanks for the advice folks.

Have found another (what I think) are a suitable couple, they will be paying rent using RA but have the deposit and first months rent in advance saved.

As i've said earlier I'm new to this RA thing, quick question is there much chance the perspective tenant won't get RA. They are a married couple with a very small child, one of them has received RA before. Obviously don't want to sign them up etc then find out they are not eligible. . .

Why don't you just get a private tennants and avoid all this malarkey?

Zulu

Zamboni wrote: »

Why don't you just get a private tennants and avoid all this malarkey?

Perhaps they can't find any?

I'd be of a similar opinion Zamboni; personally this is why I don't take RA tenants - it's not worth the hassle.

Sheep Shagger

Zamboni wrote: »

Why don't you just get a private tennants and avoid all this malarkey?

TBH the private tenants so far have been dodgy compared to the RA ones.

Checked the last reference (landlord) who received their rent via RA and there were absolutely no problems. As has been pointed out above I'll ask to sign the RA paperwork before the keys are handed over.

fussyonion

There's far too much snobbiness and ignorance regarding RA tenants.
RA tenants are people too, who just need assistance to help pay their rent.
As long as the tenant-private or RA-pays his or her rent, there should never be an issue.

Zamboni

fussyonion wrote: »

There's far too much snobbiness and ignorance regarding RA tenants.
RA tenants are people too, who just need assistance to help pay their rent.
As long as the tenant-private or RA-pays his or her rent, there should never be an issue.

It's not about snobbiness and ignorance. It's about avoiding dealing with incompetent local government, indifferent civil servants and the national policies being implemented differently on the ground.

Zulu

fussyonion wrote: »

There's far too much snobbiness and ignorance regarding RA tenants.
RA tenants are people too, who...

Let me finish that sentence for you: ...can't afford the service you provide.

It's simple business really & nothing to do with snobbiness. I'm not going to rent to someone who can not afford to pay the rent. If they can't afford the rent, they can't afford the property. I'm not in the business for charity.

MistyCheese

I know of a landlord who gets €56 a month more from his tenant because that tenant is receiving Rent Supplement. So far this year that's €392 extra he's received simply from signing a form.

Can I get a slice of this "hassle"?

fussyonion

Zulu wrote: »

Let me finish that sentence for you: ...can't afford the service you provide.

It's simple business really & nothing to do with snobbiness. I'm not going to rent to someone who can not afford to pay the rent. If they can't afford the rent, they can't afford the property. I'm not in the business for charity.

Where did I say the tenant couldn't afford to pay?
I said RA tenants are people who need assistance to pay their rent.
I never said they couldn't afford to pay their rent.
Of course people who cannot afford to pay their landlord shouldn't be in the property, but RA tenants pay rent-they just get help with it.
At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter if the tenant is on RA or not, once the landlord is getting his money every month.