Ireland Olympic Sailing Team

murphym7

Just thought I would start this thread off, if anybody wants to discuss how the Irish sailing team is getting on.

BBC One HD on the red button has been fantastic for coverage - spent a good part of yesterday watching the sailing. At work so can't today, although you can follow live action here: http://www.london2012.com/sailing/
just select the race that you want to follow.

Star lads did really well yesterday and Annalise Murphy is sailing up a storm as we speak, she just won the second race of the day - great performance.

Ireland have a good chance of a medal or two out of our sailors this week I think.

VinLieger

Yeah been following it all day, dont have access to the bbc extras so cant watch it but have been discussing it and keeping up to date over in the olympics daily diary thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056710645&page=34

homer911

Just watched the Laser Radial Race 4 on BBC online - Annalise is unstoppable! She had a modest start but made up incredible ground on the first beat

Freiheit

how many races in total? is she likely now to get a medal? Irish rowers/sailors often contended but yet to win an olympic medal ,so would be great if she makes it.

fergal.b

Annalise makes it four out of four. Way to go

homer911

Freiheit wrote: »

how many races in total? is she likely now to get a medal? Irish rowers/sailors often contended but yet to win an olympic medal ,so would be great if she makes it.

The competition format is here:
http://www.london2012.com/sailing/event/laser-radial-women/competition-format/

It looks like all points (minus the discard) carry forward to the medal race

She currently has a 12 point lead

The individual race results and competition standings are here:
http://www.london2012.com/sailing/event/laser-radial-women/phase=saw103904/index.html

The remaining race timetable is here
http://www.london2012.com/sailing/event/laser-radial-women/timetable/

Freiheit

wow with 43 competitors thats an astonishing achievement.....

murphym7

Good recap of Laser racing on RTE 2, Great day for Annalise. Well done!

Maurice O'Connell "Prof" was on, remember the guy well from coaching years ago.

The 49er lads are still in with a good chance, very close between 2nd and 6th places, couple of good races and they will bo looking good.

MyBrokenKnees

I really enjoyed watching today.. I sailed a bit in younger years and watching today reminded me how bad i was lol

murphym7

MyBrokenKnees wrote: »

I really enjoyed watching today.. I sailed a bit in younger years and watching today reminded me how bad i was lol

I was watching some highlights of the Laser racing and my wife was asking me did I really hike out that much when I raced Laser's - its hard to believe that I was actually fit enough back then to do it!

Its a Gin palace on horizon now I think, hiking over the bar for another slice of Lemon!:D

homer911

murphym7 wrote: »

I was watching some highlights of the Laser racing and my wife was asking me did I really hike out that much when I raced Laser's - its hard to believe that I was actually fit enough back then to do it!

Its a Gin palace on horizon now I think, hiking over the bar for another slice of Lemon!:D

LOL - I know what you mean, I'm over 17 stone now..

MyBrokenKnees

murphym7 wrote: »

I was watching some highlights of the Laser racing and my wife was asking me did I really hike out that much when I raced Laser's - its hard to believe that I was actually fit enough back then to do it!

Its a Gin palace on horizon now I think, hiking over the bar for another slice of Lemon!:D

lol yes i make a Laser look like a topper these days

whatever_

homer911 wrote: »

Just watched the Laser Radial Race 4 on BBC online - Annalise is unstoppable! She had a modest start but made up incredible ground on the first beat

At this stage it looks like the medals will probably come from the sailors in the first five positions. Here are the height / weight statistics:

1 AM Ireland 185cm/ 72kg
2 Belgium 172cm/ 70kg
3 France 177cm/ 66kg
4 UK 181cm/ 67kg
5 China 176cm/ 60kg

So AM has a clear mechanical advantage over all the other leading competitors in windy conditions.

The good news - it's looking windy for the next two days of Radial racing (Fri/ Sat).

The bad news - the forcecast for Monday (medal race) is for light winds.

Snickers Man

Question:

What happens if two competitors are level on points after the medal race? How do they determine the winner? Do they take into account the "discarded" race from the first 10 or is there another means of separating competitors?

Can't find it on the Olympics website.

neris

Snickers Man wrote: »

Question:

What happens if two competitors are level on points after the medal race? How do they determine the winner? Do they take into account the "discarded" race from the first 10 or is there another means of separating competitors?

Can't find it on the Olympics website.

Sometimes it can depend on the regatta how they decide the winner of a tie. Usually its done on who had the most 1sts then 2nds and so on

Steve

Yup - number of firsts seconds thirds etc is the normal tiebreak method under ISAF rules.

It can be changed by the regatta rules but that's unlikely for this event.

Edit: Looks like this could happen in the Finn class if Ainsley wins and the Dane gets second.

fergal.b

Nail biting reading the race on FB http://www.facebook.com/AnnaliseMurphySailing Annalise now in joint 3rd for the race on monday, any of the top 4 can win it going to be a good one.

Snickers Man

The maths of it are deliciously and cruelly simple: there are four girls in the hunt for the medals. (One each from China, Belgium, Netherlands and Ireland) Three will go home with something. The fourth will take back only memories.

The medals will be awarded in the order in which those four finish on Monday.

Annalise Murphy can do it. All she needs is a little belief.

Now's your time girl. **** Rio. Go get it on Monday.

And good luck

TheVoodoo

By the sounds of it in Dun Laoghaire today, half the Nash' is heading across for the medal race! Best of luck to her, heres hoping for strong wind.

neris

Some one from ireland sent a good email/article to sailing anarchy during theweek about peter oleary and him betting on ian percey in 2008. Showed up the typicalirish begrudery and media stupidity we have now a days

locum-motion

Snickers Man wrote: »

...The medals will be awarded in the order in which those four finish on Monday...

The GBR girl in 5th is 18/19 points behind the first four. If she wins the race, she finishes ahead of any of the top four who score a DNF or level with Annelise or the BEL girl if they are 10th.

Barring that, your analysis is correct.

murphym7

Looks like light airs again today - force 2 most likely. This won't help Annalise, best of luck to her though. I'll be watching.

John_Rambo

Hard luck to Murphy... those light downwind legs did her no favours. Incredible performance from Annalisa, best Irish result in Olympic sailing since 1980.

ROCKMAN

OK FIRST OF ALL WELL DONE GIRL ...YOU DID US PROUD...

but can i ask as a first time viewer.....
why did she keep going down the same route on all three downwind legs surely after the first leg where she dropped from 1st to 9th and the 2nd leg think she dropped from 2nd to 8th-ish she'd would have changed her tactics for the last leg after again getting brillantly back into it ?

I'm not knocking her efforts as i havn't a glue about the sport I'd just like to know the educated reasons behind her unchanging tactics ?

nipps

ROCKMAN wrote: »

OK FIRST OF ALL WELL DONE GIRL ...YOU DID US PROUD...

but can i ask as a first time viewer.....
why did she keep going down the same route on all three downwind legs surely after the first leg where she dropped from 1st to 9th and the 2nd leg think she dropped from 2nd to 8th-ish she'd would have changed her tactics for the last leg after again getting brillantly back into it ?

I'm not knocking her efforts as i havn't a glue about the sport I'd just like to know the educated reasons behind her unchanging tactics ?

there was nothing she could do, the tactics were fine. it's just she was the heaviest of the four going for medals and the wind wasn't as strong as it was earlier in the competition. because of this she was quick upwind, but she suffered downwind since the others were lighter and therefore quicker. had the wind been a few knots stronger she would have done better as she is suited to stronger winds.

at the end of the day she had a great olympics and did the country proud. four 1st's in a row is a great achievement. dont forget she's only 22 so theres more to come for sure.

mrboswell

nipps wrote: »

there was nothing she could do, the tactics were fine. it's just she was the heaviest of the four going for medals and the wind wasn't as strong as it was earlier in the competition. because of this she was quick upwind, but she suffered downwind since the others were lighter and therefore quicker. had the wind been a few knots stronger she would have done better as she is suited to stronger winds.

at the end of the day she had a great olympics and did the country proud. four 1st's in a row is a great achievement. dont forget she's only 22 so theres more to come for sure.

Not sure it was all down to just weight. Even the Belgian sailer said that she went left down wind all last week and was wrong but stayed right today and it paid off for her.

I guess we will never know but I reckon Annalise would have medaled if she stayed right on final the down wind leg.

Fair play to Annalise she sailed great over the 11 races.

Snickers Man

locum-motion wrote: »

The GBR girl in 5th is 18/19 points behind the first four. If she wins the race, she finishes ahead of any of the top four who score a DNF or level with Annelise or the BEL girl if they are 10th.

Barring that, your analysis is correct.

I've piddled about with Toppers and Lasers in my youth but never competitively so I will bow to the superior wisdom of anybody with the slightest knowledge of race sailing.

However DON'T MESS WITH MY MATHS!!

The only way the British girl could have medalled was if TWO of the top four had been disqualified. Could have happened, but highly unlikely.

If only one of the top two had been disqualified, and the British girl had won she would have finished on 54 points, and if Annalise or the Belgian had finished last they would have been in 9th place, received 18pts and finished with a total of 52. So she would still have been outside the medals.

All academic now. Great shame for Annalise Murphy. Fantastic performance. Maybe it will inspire more kids to get into sailing and the Sports Council to facilitate more sailing schools around the country. Enthusiasm is the foundation stone of any sporting culture.

We should have more people in sailing. We're a feckin' island, FFS!

fergal.b

Too true Snickers Man as an island nation we need to try and get more kids out on the water and I'm sure the likes of Annalise and the others will help with this. We are lucky here on the East coast as there are quite a few sailing clubs that are very active Skerries for one cater for everything from optimist to cruising yachts so if anyone would like their kids from the age of 8 to get involved just contact the club http://www.skerriessailingclub.com/jnr_home.html I'm sure this is the same in clubs all over the country and it's up to us as parents to try and get the kids away from the xbox/PS3 and TV's and out on the water.

PS. I tried this with my daughter but failed miserably she hates the water "we can but try":D

Esroh

Well done Annelise. You did yourself and Sailing in Ireland and the rest of us proud.


Now can I be the first to ask the Irish Sports Council to guarantee Annelise all her funding for the next 4 years. No messing with regards to results in championships during this time. Aim for Rio and Rio only all other championships should be stepping stones.
And this should be added to the Sailing Ireland funding not taken from it.
If this cannot be done than
Step back in time to a old eastern bloc trick, give her a commission in the Navy and let them write off her wages(grant). She could be a poster girl for the Defence forces.

John_Rambo

Can't believe she's sailing at this level at 22 years of age, she's showing maturity way beyond her years, this is seriously technical sailing along with tough physical conditions. Don't forget she's on her own, no crew mates to talk things over!! Even golfers have their caddies. Lets hope for high winds in Rio.

Tea 1000

fergal.b wrote: »

Too true Snickers Man as an island nation we need to try and get more kids out on the water and I'm sure the likes of Annalise and the others will help with this. We are lucky here on the East coast as there are quite a few sailing clubs that are very active Skerries for one cater for everything from optimist to cruising yachts so if anyone would like their kids from the age of 8 to get involved just contact the club http://www.skerriessailingclub.com/jnr_home.html I'm sure this is the same in clubs all over the country and it's up to us as parents to try and get the kids away from the xbox/PS3 and TV's and out on the water.

PS. I tried this with my daughter but failed miserably she hates the water "we can but try":D

Not only an island, but we have many in-land lakes, way more per sq mile than the UK. Sailing is under-promoted, but hopefully thanks to Annalise's fantastic efforts, less so from now on!

mrboswell

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Not only an island, but we have many in-land lakes, way more per sq mile than the UK. Sailing is under-promoted, but hopefully thanks to Annalise's fantastic efforts, less so from now on!

Most sports are under-promoted in Ireland.
I know GAA games are our national sport but between all the money and player base I'd say it has a monopoly of sport in Ireland.

Sailing is not known as a money pit in the water for nothing and lets face its hardly considered a working class sport. It a minority sport and an expensive one at that.
Any one can buy pair of boots and go down to the local club and join for a modest fee. Away you go.
Try that in one of the Dun Laoghaire clubs or Howth.

Sometimes I think the sport does itself few favours.

Talent

I will be writing to the Irish SAiling Assoc and the Irish Olympic Council asking them to try to ensure that that type of "pop" final medal race is banned in the next Olympics. It was designed for TV and spectators, not to test the competitors.

Murphy showed her real superiority in the beats and was always, given her sturdier build, going to be disadvantaged in the downwind legs. In a standard "Olympic" course she would have three beats and only one downwind leg, in addition to four reaches. In the medal race last week she faced three beats and three downwind legs. So on a standard course (let's ignore the short beat to the finish) she was weight disadvantaged on 12.5% of the legs. In the Medal Final (ignore the short reach to the finish) she was disadvantaged on 50% of the legs. Her Chinese fellow-contestant (who is, by the way, a fabulous sailor) was lighter and did better downwind.

By the way the argument about going left or right downwind must be tempered by two important considerations. (1) what is the rest of the pack doing? A lead boat downwind is always very vulnerable to attack from boats behind who can simply steal its wind by getting right behind and blocking the breeze. My decision would be tempered by what side the main competition is sailing and I would be strongly tempted to take the opposite side to sail in clear air as long as possible. (2) are you sailing the shortest possible distance to the mark?

neris

It is a bit of a crappy thing to have those "medal races" but it seems now a days in any sport that TV get whats TV wants. Just look at how sky dictate footbal in the uk. if they wanted sail offs for gold they should have just kept the solings and gone on match racing.

Just on a side note that while we got coverage for sailing over the last 2 weeks I feel racing in ireland is going more into decline and very few boats are turning up for racing anymore especially club races which is where the new people of any age get an interest (white sail classes dont count)

John_Rambo

neris wrote: »

white sail classes dont count

:pac: :pac:

Steve

Talent wrote: »

Murphy showed her real superiority in the beats and was always, given her sturdier build, going to be disadvantaged in the downwind legs. In a standard "Olympic" course she would have three beats and only one downwind leg, in addition to four reaches.

Isn't that why they changed it though?

The old 'standard' Olympic course of triangle - sausage - triangle - beat unfairly favoured good upwind sailors.
Historically, going upwind is where the only place changes took place and the offwind and downwind legs were really just rest periods where you pretty much got in line and pointed at the next mark - the only chance for overtaking was if your competitor messed up a gybe.

I think the new course is fairer all round.

No disrespect to Annalise there, still a fantastic performance.:)

mrboswell

Talent wrote: »

I will be writing to the Irish SAiling Assoc and the Irish Olympic Council asking them to try to ensure that that type of "pop" final medal race is banned in the next Olympics. It was designed for TV and spectators, not to test the competitors.

Murphy showed her real superiority in the beats and was always, given her sturdier build, going to be disadvantaged in the downwind legs. In a standard "Olympic" course she would have three beats and only one downwind leg, in addition to four reaches. In the medal race last week she faced three beats and three downwind legs. So on a standard course (let's ignore the short beat to the finish) she was weight disadvantaged on 12.5% of the legs. In the Medal Final (ignore the short reach to the finish) she was disadvantaged on 50% of the legs. Her Chinese fellow-contestant (who is, by the way, a fabulous sailor) was lighter and did better downwind.

By the way the argument about going left or right downwind must be tempered by two important considerations. (1) what is the rest of the pack doing? A lead boat downwind is always very vulnerable to attack from boats behind who can simply steal its wind by getting right behind and blocking the breeze. My decision would be tempered by what side the main competition is sailing and I would be strongly tempted to take the opposite side to sail in clear air as long as possible. (2) are you sailing the shortest possible distance to the mark?

The rules and courses change every couple of years, specifically 4 for olympics.
All competitors have been aware of the race conditions for years and know what is required.

They know they need to be in a good position going into the medal race and perform well in it. Murphy didn't sail her best and will deal with it and it will make her better. Look at Slingsby. He was world champ going into Beijing, expected to win. Ended up 20th or something. Came back very hungry and won this time.

You mention Murphy was disadvantaged in 50% of the legs, whereas I would say that she had an advantage over the majority of the fleet in 50% of the legs. The Chinese sailer was lighter and did better downwind and but held her own upwind. The downwind legs stretch the fleet but the upwind compresses them again. Just unfortunate it finishes off-wind.

With regard to the downwind tactics:
1 - The other boats (more or less everyone) were to the right and had much better speed. She appeared sail by the lee on the left side and it didn't pay off at all. She was lying in a medal position and staying on the opposite side of the course to avoid a wind shadow was madness. She lost out every time.

2 - The shortest distance has never really been a big deal in the international laser class, particularly with the men. Traditionally they more often than not just go chasing waves by pointing up for wave and bearing away to surf on it. Takes you way off line but you get better boat speed. Some class of boat that tactic doesn't pay but with a single hander, single sail it does.

I doubt your letter to the ISA and IOC will have any effect but I'd say they will be glad of the tv audience and general increase in interest.

Looks good for the future.