Church fees for Catholic weddings

Pwpane

I hope it's alright to re-post here what I have posted in the Weddings forum in response to a query re the perceived high charge for a wedding in a church, as I would be very interested to hear the viewpoint of people who are active Catholics. I am not an active Catholic as you may be aware but the upbringing is strong! The following is what I posted:

When I got married, quite a while ago now, there was no charge for the church as far as I remember. We did give a donation to the priest as a thank you as we had asked him in particular to marry us.

In practice parishes are businesses and charge for their services at weddings. But in theory, I don't understand how they can possibly do this. I was taught that priests are there to preach and to serve, and that the community is to support their priests and the church, which they do with their dues and contributions at mass.

There is no charge to hire a church for a funeral, to be confirmed, to receive communion, to go to confession, to receive the last rites, to receive holy orders etc and the church needs to be lit and heated for all these. Why is there a charge to be married? Why is one sacrament different to the others?

Making money on the back of the sacraments is unholy to me. The church is there for the service of the people of God and for nothing else. If the local priest has reason to think you're not a believer then he shouldn't be hiring the church out to you anyway. If you are a believer then he should be welcoming you in. It's your church, and celebrating the sacraments is part of what he is there for.

mikemac1

There is no charge to hire a church for a funeral, to be confirmed, to receive communion, to go to confession, to receive the last rites, to receive holy orders etc and the church needs to be lit and heated for all these. Why is there a charge to be married? Why is one sacrament different to the others?

Those are for parishioners

You don't choose a pretty church beside a lake in the Wicklow mountains for your funeral, you go to your local church
Same for the communion, you go local

And the same is true for weddings, if you are a local and you've been attending there since you were a child it's unlikely you'll be asked for anything. Maybe you'll pay something but it won't be hundreds

But if you are not from there and only choose it as it's pretty then it's a bit much to expect the PP and the locals to clean and prep the church for people who will never set foot in there again.
The locals are volunteers, they are not there at your beck and call


It's best to stay local but if you can't then expect to pay something

It's not even a lot of money, why do people act shocked at a few hundred for a church and then blow thousands on the hotel?

Squ

mikemac1 wrote: »

The locals are volunteers

expect to pay something

Something not right there

mikemac1 wrote: »

It's not even a lot of money, why do people act shocked at a few hundred for a church and then blow thousands on the hotel?

My PP said the exact same before our wedding.. The lad does 4 hours work a week and expects €200 back hander on top for an hours work.

That's apart from the church "fee". Personally I don't know anyone on €200 per hour.

Just don't ask for a receipt.

Pwpane

mikemac1 wrote: »

Those are for parishioners

You don't choose a pretty church beside a lake in the Wicklow mountains for your funeral, you go to your local church
Same for the communion, you go local

And the same is true for weddings, if you are a local and you've been attending there since you were a child it's unlikely you'll be asked for anything. Maybe you'll pay something but it won't be hundreds

Who mentioned 'a pretty church beside a lake'??? I'm talking about the local church! The parish church, that the person has always attended and financially supported.

But if you are not from there and only choose it as it's pretty then it's a bit much to expect the PP and the locals to clean and prep the church for people who will never set foot in there again.
The locals are volunteers, they are not there at your beck and call

'Pretty' again. It's as if you think weddings are only for women and they should pay for being silly???

The PP and the locals don't clean and prep the church for a wedding. The family prep it, and sort it out after.

It's best to stay local but if you can't then expect to pay something

It's not even a lot of money, why do people act shocked at a few hundred for a church and then blow thousands on the hotel?

Above you said 'it won't be hundreds' and here you think a few hundred is okay. And people spend money on funerals, on First Communions, on Confirmations, but it's not okay to spend money on weddings?

But my point is - why is any money asked for at all? You haven't addressed that at all.

Squ

Pwpane wrote: »

why is any money asked for at all? You haven't addressed that at all.

I would say he did.

It's not even a lot of money, why do people act shocked at a few hundred for a church and then blow thousands on the hotel?

They see you spending hundreds on flowers, suits, photos, cars, meal, band, honeymoon, and they just want a piece of the cake.

byhookorbycrook

It's not clear on the other thread if the bride to be is a current parishioner. We got married outside our parishes in the "pretty church by the lake" (Not in Wicklow, by the way.)
I saw no issue on paying something towards the altar servers/sacristan/heat/ light /upkeep of the church then and I still don't now.

Pwpane

Squ wrote: »

I would say he did.



They see you spending hundreds on flowers, suits, photos, cars, meal, band, honeymoon, and they just want a piece of the cake.

I know. That's my problem. I think there was a parable or two about that - the prodigal son, and the labourers in the field that were paid different amounts come to mind.

Why does it matter whether it's the local church or not? Permission should be sought of course, but a religious service is what any church is for.

Why is it only marriage that the charge is for?

I can understand it on the profane level - gimme some of that money! Is that supposed to be a good reason for a church to charge its members for availing of a sacrament though?

But from the theory side I can't understand it at all, for the reasons I mentioned in the OP. To me, it goes against the spirit of the religion. It's crass, commercial, worldly. How can priests of God publicly set out to profit financially from the performance of a sacrament? How can they make a sacrament a commercial transaction? The money changers were driven out of the temple for making money out of people's religious duties.

Pwpane

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

It's not clear on the other thread if the bride to be is a current parishioner. We got married outside our parishes in the "pretty church by the lake" (Not in Wicklow, by the way.)
I saw no issue on paying something towards the altar servers/sacristan/heat/ light /upkeep of the church then and I still don't now.

I am not querying your generosity in giving a donation towards the upkeep of the church.

I am querying the reason the priest felt it alright to charge you for the use of the church rather than say that a donation would be welcome.

Do you think it right that there should be a charge to baptise your child? A charge for his first confession and for every one after that? For his first communion and each one after that etc etc etc. Are priests in business, paid by piece work? Maybe they are though - they charge for saying masses too.

Do you think Christ charged for his services, or the apostles?

Or are priests different?

mikemac1

Pwpane wrote: »

I'm talking about the local church! The parish church, that the person has always attended and financially supported.

And I addressed that

if you are a local and you've been attending there since you were a child it's unlikely you'll be asked for anything

Pwpane wrote: »

I would be very interested to hear the viewpoint of people who are active Catholics.

You are not interested at all, you read what you want to read

Same as post 3, copying and pasting from two different lines, putting them together and twisting what I was trying to say

Onesimus

There is only a ''suggested'' donation or couples are invited to donate anything they can. But don't allow yourself to be put under pressure by the suggested donation and feel you have to live up to it. Just tell the priest ''I cannot give you this suggested donation but I can give to the parish what I can.'' Nobody ever charges for the sacraments. I think I gave our priest 100 euro out of my pocket as a gift to him and the parish. But as for the Sacrament itself, it cannot be purchased.

Its the same with baptisms and all the other sacraments. If you can afford to donate something, even if it's just 10 euros, then that would be fine.

Pwpane

mikemac1 wrote: »

And I addressed that




You are not interested at all, you read what you want to read

Same as post 3, copying and pasting from two different lines, putting them together and twisting what I was trying to say

I don't know what you're on about mikemac1. You said "if you are a local and you've been attending there since you were a child it's unlikely you'll be asked for anything" and I pointed out that this is exactly what's happening - locals who have been attending since they were children are being charged a fee for receiving the sacrament of matrimony.

I really would be interested in a relevant reply but no one has answered what I asked.

And I didn't write post 3.

Pwpane

Onesimus wrote: »

There is only a ''suggested'' donation or couples are invited to donate anything they can. But don't allow yourself to be put under pressure by the suggested donation and feel you have to live up to it. Just tell the priest ''I cannot give you this suggested donation but I can give to the parish what I can.'' Nobody ever charges for the sacraments. I think I gave our priest 100 euro out of my pocket as a gift to him and the parish. But as for the Sacrament itself, it cannot be purchased.

Its the same with baptisms and all the other sacraments. If you can afford to donate something, even if it's just 10 euros, then that would be fine.

Onesimus, how you describe it is exactly how it should be.

But I'm afraid this is not how it is in many places.

Onesimus

Pwpane wrote: »

Onesimus, how you describe it is exactly how it should be.

But I'm afraid this is not how it is in many places.

If that is the case then people, instead of coming to whinge and moan on an obscure forum here on the internet, should ring up the local Bishop and report such behaviour to him and see what he says. Because it is not allowed to force people to pay that kind of money.

lottpaul

A friend who is exploring her options re venues told me about this particular parish -- I wonder how typical it is?

Parish of Celbridge and Straffan
* A fee of €400 for the use of the Church payable in full at the time of booking the wedding.

* This fee covers heating, lighting, insurance, the maintenance of the Church, and the payment of the Sacristan.

Good News !



Please Note: €100 of that fee will be refunded to you, if the wedding ceremony begins within 10 minutes of the appointed time. (verification of the commencement of the ceremony is done jointly by the Sacristan and the Priest Celebrant).

* In the event of the wedding being cancelled the fee, less €100 will be returned to you.

* Parishioners who are contributing to the Planned Giving (weekly envelope collection) in our parish, receive a discount of €100.

Payment to the Priest Celebrant.

The Priest who presides at your wedding is to be paid €200 (minimum). This payment must be received by the parish secretary one month before the due date of the wedding.

Apart from presiding at the ceremony the priest works with the couple to prepare appropriate wedding papers. helps with the order of service for the wedding, and organize the rehearsal if required.

The Church is not booked until the booking form and fee is paid.


http://www.celstra.ie/sacraments/marriages


The €400 seems a substantial amount to me and the 10 minute window for being "late" is very tight, and the €200 for the priest is a "minimum".

I have no doubt most couples could afford this, given the amounts they spend on the rest of their celebrations etc but I'm sure there must be some who would find it difficult. Presumably the priests have some discretion and use it wisely.

Bubblegum18

I went into the hairdresser recently, she was telling me she is getting married she went to her local church and the priest wanted 1000 euro!!!
She was shocked and told him there was no way she was paying him 1000 euro to get married, Its not fair charging that amount of money.

neemish

The fee, in general, is for the use of the Church and to book the date.

There have been problems in the past with couples booking several churches, picking the one that suited them best and then not informing the other churches that it was no longer needed, causing all sorts of problems.

I think that this is where the idea of a booking deposit came from, and that this would also make a contribution heat, light, insurance, admin costs, sacristan, cleaning.

There is an assumption that all the priest does is show up on the day. In the vast majority of cases, the priest advises the couple about their liturgy and booklet. He prepares the pre-nuptual papers with the couple, which are an obligatory preparation for getting married in the Catholic Church. He also has a rehearsal with the bridal party in advance of the day.

The ten minute rule is a bit strict, but on a day where a parish might also have, for example, morning Mass, a funeral in the morning, a wedding, another funeral that evening, plus the day to day bits and pieces, the last thing needed is a bride who is an hour late! It happens!

I know of cases where a fee has been reduced or waived if there is a genuine financial hardship. This does not include only having 10k to spend on the Wedding!

Just to clarify, most funeral bills will include a contribution to the Church where the Service was held.

neemish

Squ wrote: »

The lad does 4 hours work a week

Just don't ask for a receipt.

Get your facts straight...

I know many priests and not one of them "only" works four hours a week. In fact, ring any Parochial House in the country this morning and you'll probably be told that the priest is out doing his First Friday calls. I'm sure that there are priests who do very little, just as in any profession. but the vast majority work very hard


And yes, you are entitled to ask for a recepit and you will get one. This money is declared by the priest as part of his income. In some dioceses, part or all of this fee will be given to either the parish or the diocese.

Pwpane

neemish wrote: »

There have been problems in the past with couples booking several churches, picking the one that suited them best and then not informing the other churches that it was no longer needed, causing all sorts of problems.

I think that this is where the idea of a booking deposit came from, and that this would also make a contribution heat, light, insurance, admin costs, sacristan, cleaning.

That does make some sense. I didn't realise that people multi-booked.

Squ

Pwpane wrote: »

neemish wrote: »

There have been problems in the past with couples booking several churches, picking the one that suited them best and then not informing the other churches that it was no longer needed, causing all sorts of problems.

I think that this is where the idea of a booking deposit came from, and that this would also make a contribution heat, light, insurance, admin costs, sacristan, cleaning.

That does make some sense. I didn't realise that people multi-booked.

I wouldn't read too much into it tbh, if it was anywhere near accurate the booking deposit would be returned after the wedding.

Squ

neemish wrote: »

Squ wrote: »

The lad does 4 hours work a week

Just don't ask for a receipt.

Get your facts straight...

Seeing as you have no idea as to whom i am referring and I do, I can assure you that all of my facts are lined up straight.

Actor

Why anyone would have a problem with paying for the use of the church is beyond me. If you're that scabby, the priest is better off not having you at all.

€500 is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. The Mass is the highlight of the day and €500 is great value for money considering you're getting Mass in a prime location and on ample grounds - all of which require upkeep.

Onesimus

One priest just summed it up nicely there on his FB page. he said something about how it is amazing that couples who spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on their wedding only donate $100 dollars or less to the Church. what is the most important part of the day anyway?

Give what you can, but if your spending over 10,000 on a wedding then we should at least consider why we would only give 100 euro or less. The Sacrament may be free but it's still important to donate to the Church a nice lump sum that we can possibly afford.

Squ

Actor wrote: »

Why anyone would have a problem with paying for the use of the church is beyond me.

i'm sure there are plenty of things in this world that are beyond you. I wouldn't get hung up on it.

Actor

Squ wrote: »

i'm sure there are plenty of things in this world that are beyond you. I wouldn't get hung up on it.

Let me guess... A smug atheist?

Squ

Actor wrote: »

Squ wrote: »

i'm sure there are plenty of things in this world that are beyond you. I wouldn't get hung up on it.

Let me guess... A smug atheist?

Careful now, down with that sort of thing.

lmaopml

Pwpane wrote: »

I hope it's alright to re-post here what I have posted in the Weddings forum in response to a query re the perceived high charge for a wedding in a church, as I would be very interested to hear the viewpoint of people who are active Catholics. I am not an active Catholic as you may be aware but the upbringing is strong! The following is what I posted:

Pwpane, there is a charge per hour to have a registrar conduct a civil ceremony in a hotel...and also a notification fee for a civil marriage.

I think that when one looks at the Sacrament of Marriage, you must remember that it involves the Priest being 'listed' as a person who can conduct a Marriage and have it recorded legally too - The actual Sacrament is different to the other six, in the sense that the Priest is a witness with the community.... and the man and wife actually convey their promises on eachother before God as a covenant that includes him in that promise.

When one thinks of Baptism, or Holy Communion or Confirmation - then the Church is community owned, and community funded, and survives that way - so that's kind of different. When Catholics attend Mass during the week and on Sunday they give a donation for the upkeep of the Church for the community as a whole, for heating, lighting, living needs of Priests in the diocese, and it is for all those who celebrate those occasions as a community together too...I hope that helps..:)

lmaopml

Actor wrote: »

Why anyone would have a problem with paying for the use of the church is beyond me. If you're that scabby, the priest is better off not having you at all.

€500 is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. The Mass is the highlight of the day and €500 is great value for money considering you're getting Mass in a prime location and on ample grounds - all of which require upkeep.

That's not true - the 'Priest' is not better off for not having a couple Marry, that's why they are Priests, it's the reason for their vocation to be a representative of Christ at the Marriage Ceremony - in fact, most Priests will conduct a Marriage for absolutely nothing, no donation, and dig into Parish or their own funds if the couple being married cannot afford a donation. That's why it's called a community.

I gave a 'donation' for mine of about 100euro almost nine years ago - I thought I was being super generous..lol..The Priest came to the wedding too - I had a grand chat with him

lmaopml

Bubblegum18 wrote: »

I went into the hairdresser recently, she was telling me she is getting married she went to her local church and the priest wanted 1000 euro!!!


She was shocked and told him there was no way she was paying him 1000 euro to get married, Its not fair charging that amount of money.

What Parish? What Church, what Priest? Don't be shy? Otherwise it's heresay - why don't you point them out for what they are?

Otherwise, I might as well say I was charged 1000euro when I went into my hairdresser recently for an extra colour, and along came a fairy who said if I waved my arms around I got a 95% discount - Hairdressing salons are just daft - you can't beat going natural the odd time - for value as far as a good cut is concerned, go to the barber who can cut straight lines too.

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

Pwpane, there is a charge per hour to have a registrar conduct a civil ceremony in a hotel...and also a notification fee for a civil marriage.

I think that when one looks at the Sacrament of Marriage, you must remember that it involves the Priest being 'listed' as a person who can conduct a Marriage and have it recorded legally too - The actual Sacrament is different to the other six, in the sense that the Priest is a witness with the community.... and the man and wife actually convey their promises on eachother before God as a covenant that includes him in that promise.

When one thinks of Baptism, or Holy Communion or Confirmation - then the Church is community owned, and community funded, and survives that way - so that's kind of different. When Catholics attend Mass during the week and on Sunday they give a donation for the upkeep of the Church for the community as a whole, for heating, lighting, living needs of Priests in the diocese, and it is for all those who celebrate those occasions as a community together too...I hope that helps..:)

Heresy heresy I SAYYYYY!!!!!! :eek:

All Sacraments are equal to one another and have different definitions. The Byzantine Catholics unlike in Roman churches ( and we were married in the roman rite so priest informed us of the difference ) the Priest is the one who confers the Sacrament and it is not just the couple who celebrate the Sacrament and the priest just acting as the witness. Unlike in Roman churches where the priest is just the witness and the couple who celebrate the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. But regardless of both definitions ( east and west ) this Sacrament is not different from the other six, it is equally a Sacrament.

lmaopml

Onesimus wrote: »

Heresy heresy I SAYYYYY!!!!!! :eek:

All Sacraments are equal to one another and have different definitions. The Byzantine Catholics unlike in Roman churches ( and we were married in the roman rite so priest informed us of the difference ) the Priest is the one who confers the Sacrament and it is not just the couple who celebrate the Sacrament and the priest just acting as the witness. Unlike in Roman churches where the priest is just the witness and the couple who celebrate the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. But regardless of both definitions ( east and west ) this Sacrament is not different from the other six, it is equally a Sacrament.

Of course it's a Sacrament, but the couple bestow their promise on eachother. The 'Sacramental' element does not come from the Priest at all.

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

Of course it's a Sacrament, but the couple bestow their promise on eachother. The 'Sacramental' element does not come from the Priest at all.

In the roman rite yes but not in the eastern rite. The couple do not exchange vows in the eastern rite and the Sacrament is conferred upon the couple by the priest and not by the couple themselves.