Standing at Mass

Clareboy

In my local church, there are always people standing around the door during Sunday Mass even though there are always empty seats available. Is this a particulary Irish trait? I have never noticed people standing around the door when I have attended mass in other countries. Why do people stand when there are seats available.

pixbyjohn

Have you ever asked any of them why they do it ?

Onesimus

I use to always sit up at the front, but I stand at the back now in case I need to take a run for some air without causing a scene as the door is right there beside me. I have in recent months been suffering with panic and anxiety you see. But there could any number of reasons as to why people stand at the back.

Some people may do it because it is whats most comfortable for them to do.

homer911

Smoking breaks?

Not wanting to be there, but doing so out of a sense of obligation?

To beat the queue on the way out?

To be the first to the pub afterwards?

Gumbi

I think it's because theyd rather not walk up to the top, where there are usually quite a few empty seats.

georgieporgy

I think some people are just a bit shy and have difficulty parading up to the front. If they can't find an empty seat near the back they just stand there and hope they are not noticed.

Others think going up front is reserved for holy people.

Onesimus

georgieporgy wrote: »

I think some people are just a bit shy and have difficulty parading up to the front. If they can't find an empty seat near the back they just stand there and hope they are not noticed.

Others think going up front is reserved for holy people.

Whenever I sit at the front I always pray ''Lord, I sit here closest to you, but my heart is at the back and far from you, please help me to be closer to you, Amen.''

tommy2bad

homer911 wrote: »

Smoking breaks?

Not wanting to be there, but doing so out of a sense of obligation?

To beat the queue on the way out?

To be the first to the pub afterwards?

Some of all of them and more.
One of our priests remarked that the ones at the back in the church were the ones closest to the bar in the pub. He didn't see it as a bad thing just that some people see church the way others see the pub. Or vise versa if you like.
Myself I stand at the back when in a church for two reasons, 1, pews are hard and uncomfortable to sit on for any length of time. 2, habit.
Do they still do the womens side and mens side anywhere?

Snappy Smurf

Apparently the practise of men standing at the back of the church is a carry-over from the penal times, when men used to stand on the edges and away from the Mass rocks so that they could spot the soldiers coming for the priest. It's just a habit.

solsqeez

I always wondered about this too. Growing up in my church it seemed to be the normal thing for men to do, just the way tings were. They would seem completely out of place if they sat in one of the seats.

I remember when I was young wanting to join them at the back and on the occassions when I did I fealt really proud. It was bit like, to be a real man you had to stand at the back during mass!

Clareboy

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Have you ever asked any of them why they do it ?

I would not be so brazen as to ask someone why they are standing at the back of the church when there are empty seats.

Clareboy

Onesimus wrote: »

I use to always sit up at the front, but I stand at the back now in case I need to take a run for some air without causing a scene as the door is right there beside me. I have in recent months been suffering with panic and anxiety you see. But there could any number of reasons as to why people stand at the back.

Some people may do it because it is whats most comfortable for them to do.

I can understand why someone prone to panic attacks would prefer to be at the back of the church near the door.

Clareboy

homer911 wrote: »

Smoking breaks?

Not wanting to be there, but doing so out of a sense of obligation?

To beat the queue on the way out?

To be the first to the pub afterwards?

If they do not want to be there, why do they not do themselves and the rest of the congregation a big favour and just stay away.

Clareboy

georgieporgy wrote: »

I think some people are just a bit shy and have difficulty parading up to the front. If they can't find an empty seat near the back they just stand there and hope they are not noticed.

Others think going up front is reserved for holy people.

If they came to church on time, they would have no problem in finding a seat. People who are standing at the back attract a lot more notice than those who are seated. It must be very uncomfortable to be standing all the time during a church service.

uriah

Church pews can be very uncomfortable and sometimes too restricted.
And one might end up in close proximity to someone with poor personal hygiene/flu/sniffles etc.

Freedom of choice. Who cares?

Clareboy

tommy2bad wrote: »

Some of all of them and more.
One of our priests remarked that the ones at the back in the church were the ones closest to the bar in the pub. He didn't see it as a bad thing just that some people see church the way others see the pub. Or vise versa if you like.
Myself I stand at the back when in a church for two reasons, 1, pews are hard and uncomfortable to sit on for any length of time. 2, habit.
Do they still do the womens side and mens side anywhere?

We attended a funeral in St. Munchin's Church in Limerick last year and the female mourners sat on one side of the church and the males sat on the other side. I have never seen that done in any church since Vatican II.

At the same funeral, all these young males stood in a semi-circle at the back of the church even though the church was half empty. Standing at the back must be some kind of macho thing. Maybe they did not want to be seen kneeling down with the women.

Clareboy

Snappy Smurf wrote: »

Apparently the practise of men standing at the back of the church is a carry-over from the penal times, when men used to stand on the edges and away from the Mass rocks so that they could spot the soldiers coming for the priest. It's just a habit.

Penal Times and Mass Rocks indeed! Mass rocks have not been used since the early 18th. century and the Penal Laws were repealed in 1829. Standing at the back may be an Irish male habit, but I have seen women with children also doing it.

Onesimus

In Byzantine Churches we stand for the whole Liturgy. But some Byzantine parishes that have been given a roman parish to use will automatically every now and again use the pews. Below is a picture of St.Elias Byzantine Catholic Church in Canada. As you can see no pews. This is the way it was for centuries until around the 15th century or thereabouts when Pews and kneelers brought in. In Byzantine Churches we do kneel but not on Sundays as traditionally speaking we see us Christians to be children of the Resurrection.

It is also said that Ireland in ancient times were Byzantine before being Roman. But I have only heard people say that and may not be true.

Benny_Cake

Onesimus wrote: »

In Byzantine Churches we stand for the whole Liturgy. But some Byzantine parishes that have been given a roman parish to use will automatically every now and again use the pews. Below is a picture of St.Elias Byzantine Catholic Church in Canada. As you can see no pews. This is the way it was for centuries until around the 15th century or thereabouts when Pews and kneelers brought in. In Byzantine Churches we do kneel but not on Sundays as traditionally speaking we see us Christians to be children of the Resurrection.

It is also said that Ireland in ancient times were Byzantine before being Roman. But I have only heard people say that and may not be true.

Beautiful church.

I think there was a degree of machismo attached standing at the back- you had to be seen at Mass, but you wouldn't want it to look like you're too interested!

tommy2bad

I never kneel on a Sunday as it's resurrection day, personal affectation but their you go.

Onesimus

tommy2bad wrote: »

I never kneel on a Sunday as it's resurrection day, personal affectation but their you go.

I always kneel at the appropriate time for kneeling on Sunday at Roman Churches because it's important to A) respect each others traditions and to not cause scandal or confusion amongst the faithful.

But there would be times when a latin west person may enter a church not knowing of certain customs and they might kneel here and there or say ''Amen'' before they receive communion and thats fine and vice versa for a Byzantine who enters a Roman church and I could see the reason for that because neither would be aware of each others Liturgical traditions.

But its important that both east and west respect each others Liturgical traditions and encourage one another to stick to them and therefore I always before going to any ritual rite find out the customs of each rite if I can help it. It's always nice too to do what they do and thus gives a feeling of being more involved and experiencing their liturgy.

lmaopml

I don't think it matters too much where you are physically in the Church to be honest about it...unless perhaps you 'think' it matters in some particular way to go to the front or stand at the back and it says something or other about a person who does either?

I often think about the verse when this discussion has arisen about those who put themselves 'first' - in this regard, and perhaps it's why people gather at the back? - but it has very little to do with where one sits I think in reality

What matters more is being present at Mass no matter where you stand or sit, even if you fidget, well you are welcome..lol.. - being present matters whether you are at the door or no - and to realise what Communion is and the centre of the Mass, the Eucharist? To know that's the reason...

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

I don't think it matters too much where you are physically in the Church to be honest about it...unless perhaps you 'think' it matters in some particular way to go to the front or stand at the back and it says something or other about a person who does either?

I often think about the verse when this discussion has arisen about those who put themselves 'first' - in this regard, and perhaps it's why people gather at the back? - but it has very little to do with where one sits I think in reality

What matters more is being present at Mass no matter where you stand or sit, even if you fidget, well you are welcome..lol.. - being present matters whether you are at the door or no - and to realise what Communion is and the centre of the Mass, the Eucharist? To know that's the reason...

haha yeah I think I heard it said somewhere that that verse in the Bible had something to do with the Jews.

lmaopml

Onesimus wrote: »

haha yeah I think I heard it said somewhere that that verse in the Bible had something to do with the Jews.

Yeah, I think it's about the Pharisees that put themselves 'first' in Jesus time, but as St. Paul taught us that's of no use now, the old laws, now we live by faith and love - I think Irish people are very much inclined to put themselves last even to the point of not walking up an aisle...to celebrate...

Mad!

So long as they are present though the seat number doesn't matter too much I would imagine. Unless they are planning the 'get out'..lol...but if that's what they are doing, then it's still cool that they are present imo. It's God that gives us that grace to seek him out.

Snappy Smurf

Clareboy wrote: »

If they came to church on time, they would have no problem in finding a seat. People who are standing at the back attract a lot more notice than those who are seated. It must be very uncomfortable to be standing all the time during a church service.

My only problem with the the peeps who stand at the back is when they talk during Mass.

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Beautiful church.

I think there was a degree of machismo attached standing at the back- you had to be seen at Mass, but you wouldn't want it to look like you're too interested!

Exactly, and I think that is the main reason why men do that today.

Black Suir

Clareboy wrote: »

In my local church, there are always people standing around the door during Sunday Mass even though there are always empty seats available. Is this a particulary Irish trait? I have never noticed people standing around the door when I have attended mass in other countries. Why do people stand when there are seats available.

I asked a priest about this a few years ago. He told me that those that go and stand inside the door go to mass because they want to. He said those that go and sit in the front sees often go to be seen.

Onesimus

Black Suir wrote: »

I asked a priest about this a few years ago. He told me that those that go and stand inside the door go to mass because they want to. He said those that go and sit in the front sees often go to be seen.

actually I wear glasses. when I don't have my glasses I sit at front so I can see better. Looks like this priest ( of whom I respect ) likes to ''presume'' a little too much. We don't know peoples hearts unless they make it known, lets leave the intentions and knowing of the heart to God.

skooterblue2

uriah wrote: »

Church pews can be very uncomfortable and sometimes too restricted.
And one might end up in close proximity to someone with poor personal hygiene/flu/sniffles etc.

Freedom of choice. Who cares?

There is a question of eronomics. Most pews must be 100 years old. back when average men were 5'8" tall and women were 5'2". the seats are cold an uncomfortable.

Maybe we should replace the pews with extra wide cinema seats with coffee cup holders like they do in the states. I have size 12 shoes and they get caught under the seats and I have difficulty moving them between the kneelers.

Clareboy

As far as I am concerned, standing at Mass is totally unacceptable when there are seats empty. And all this talk about uncomfortable pews - I cannot understand how on earth could standing in the one spot during Mass be more comfortable than sitting down. One cannot attend Mass properly while standing as one is unable to kneel or sit at the appropriate times. The priests should speak to those standing around the door and invite them to participate in the liturgy, but then like everything else, they do not have the guts to speak out.

Clareboy

Black Suir wrote: »

I asked a priest about this a few years ago. He told me that those that go and stand inside the door go to mass because they want to. He said those that go and sit in the front sees often go to be seen.

I said nothing about people sitting at the front of the church to be seen. During Sunday Mass at my church, there are two galleries that are almost always empty and there are still people standing around the door.

Onesimus

Clareboy wrote: »

As far as I am concerned, standing at Mass is totally unacceptable when there are seats empty. And all this talk about uncomfortable pews - I cannot understand how on earth could standing in the one spot during Mass be more comfortable than sitting down. One cannot attend Mass properly while standing as one is unable to kneel or sit at the appropriate times. The priests should speak to those standing around the door and invite them to participate in the liturgy, but then like everything else, they do not have the guts to speak out.

What are we soldiers? ''Now you sit down and don't be standing, you are well able to sit so sit down''?

People should be allowed to stand where they please. Leave them alone and stop questioning their motives. You havnt a clue why people stand so leave it be.

Clareboy

Onesimus wrote: »

What are we soldiers? ''Now you sit down and don't be standing, you are well able to sit so sit down''?

People should be allowed to stand where they please. Leave them alone and stop questioning their motives. You havnt a clue why people stand so leave it be.

Yes, I have'nt a clue way people stand when there are empty seats. And by the way, I' ll leave it be when it suits me and not on your instructions.

Sierra 117

During the days when I was forced to go to mass I'd stand at the back so I could leave easily during communion. Not sure why other people do it but they have their reasons.

totus tuus

Judas was the first to leave Mass early, he started the ball rolling!

Onesimus

Clareboy wrote: »

Yes, I have'nt a clue way people stand when there are empty seats. And by the way, I' ll leave it be when it suits me and not on your instructions.

People have every right to enter a Church and be free to stand where they like regardless if there is empty seats without having their motives for doing so questioned or being forced to sit in the empty pews that are there.

Clareboy

As Christians, we believe that a church is the House of God. Sunday Mass is where we are invited as a community to join the priest around the altar and celebrate the Eucharist, which is a re-enactment of the Last Supper.

How can one fully participate in the Mass if one is standing around the door?

If you invited some people to your home for dinner and they would not join you at the dinner table, but instead preferred to stand around the door, you would feel very offended.

That is why standing around the door of the church during Mass shows a total lack of respect for the Eucharist and is totally unacceptable.

Black Suir

In the past, when churches were a lot smaller than they are now, (talking around the time the penal laws were brought in), it would have been common for people to stand all during mass, which would have lasted a lot longer than they do now. There was a few reasons for this. One would be that large numbers would have attended the mass and the churches were small meaning that there was more room for everyone if they stood. Another would be that people would not have had the money to get seats made if the space in the church allowed seats to be put into it. In the days after the Penal Laws were brought in and when mass would be celebrated in a farmers house during the winter, so many people would show up that not everyone could be expected to be seated, and people would stand in the Parlour and possibly outside the door of the house as well. In doing this they were able to keep and eye out for anyone that was out to capture or harm the priest and get him to safety if they saw or heard anyone coming that they did not know.