Small accident, 3 claims, weird situation, fraud maybe

pcardin

Hi all,

I now there have been loads of post about insurance related questions but I couldn't get answer digg answer for me and I didn't want to drag up any of the old threads.

Anyway, last December my wife got involved in road accident. Long story short, she was changing lanes before the traffic lights and collided with another car. She said she did mirrors before proceed with changing lanes and didn't see other car which probably was in so called "blind spot" at that moment. Cars collided, no more damage than a pair of scratches on both cars as speed was verly little, cars bearly moving. Nobody injured. Other driver got out, didn't check the car or anything but proceed to call her husband and then somebody else - Garda. 10 min later husband arrives and few moments later lone Garda officer in marked patrol car. So 3rd party driver, her husband and Garda quickly check the 3rd party car then came to my wife to take off her insurance details and name. Didn't even look at our car, didn't look at tax discs, nct or anything . Didn't even ask anything just gave a piece of paper with his name and phone number and third party drivers name and phone number and off he went (what's amazing that Surname of Garda and driver matched) So did the third party. Neither my wife nor myself were ever involved in any accidents before so didn't know what the right procedures in Ireland are. At least she managed to write down third party insurance policy number from windscreen prior garda and said husband arrived. As I was (still am) a policy holder ( my wife is named driver on policy)I quickly rang my insurance company to report accident and give all the details required.

Now, first week of April I got a letter from my insurer saying that they have received a claim from car owner (3rd party drivers husband) claiming damages to his car. Few days later it was followed by letter from his solicitor (in Belfast) as well. My first question was -but who determined which party was at fault? From December until April nobody ever contacted us to see the damage or anything. Only thing they said is that I can open a claim from 3rd party insurance if I think they were at fault. So I rang 3rd party insurance to tell them about accident and open claim. sure they say, can you give us the details. Gave the name of the driver first - no joy. Nobody with that name in their system. Gave them a policy number - no luck with that either. After giving them car number plate they managed to link that to policy but stil told that they don't know such person. Asked me if I know the name of a poicy holder. Told them now but gave 3rd party drivers husband name which I got from his solicitors letter. It worked. Policy was on his name but apparently they didn't had any record about her. Whats more, they had no record of accident at all, apparently third party never advised their insurance. They took my details and said that they will contact me later and send a person to take a look on our car.

Two weeks after my claim, I was contacted again by my insurance company saying that they have received another 2 claims of personal injuries - on from driver and one from her teenage daughter which was in the car at the time when accident occured. :eek: I've told them that it's not possible and it's rediculous as both cars were nearly at standstill when collided. they just told, ah, you never know whiplash and all other traditional scam. But this is just to advise me as it's gone now to Medical Board and may take long time till it resolves. In the meantime I kept asking if they checked if the driver was insured, told them that 3rd party insurer did know nothing about accident and didn't recognize the name. They said they are checking, checking. :mad:

Some weeks later my insurer finally send an "independent" accident investigator who came at the scene to determin whos at fault. Arrived, opened the car window, said that my wife is at fault - changed lines, didn't check car behind and that it will be impossible to prove that shes not at fault. Then off he goes. We had to swalow that we are now officialy at fault, fair enough. Needles to say I was never contacted by anybody from third party insurance, nobody ever came to see our car. I didn't proceed to follow up since now we are officially at fault.

On 1st of July my renewal took place, was about 15% higher. My NCB was nulled as I have an open claim.

Two days ago a new letter from third party drivers husbands solicitors came in with a curt summons were husband is suing my wife for damages made to his car. €1200 is the bill for scratch on the car with market value of €500. Court date 21st September. Attached a letter giving her an option to pay to said husband all amount and then court will be cancelled. :eek: As I said we never had any car accidents in our 10+ years driving history and we don't know much about how these accident/insurance thing are being solved in Ireland. But I thought, since I and my wife are insured our Insurance company is the one that supposed to take care of any claims. How come third party is dragging my wife to the court?!
Rang my insurer yesterday. Person who's dealing with my case is on holidays.

Can someone please advise is this a common procedure here in Ireland or there is a scamm somewhere as it really looks like scam?

P.S. sorry for such a long post. Couldn't make it much shorter.

Anan1

In a nutshell, you need to pass on all correspondence to your insurer. Don't worry about it, this is what you pay insurance for. I know it sounds unfair, but it's not your battle to fight.

pcardin

Anan1 wrote: »

In a nutshell, you need to pass on all correspondence to your insurer. Don't worry about it, this is what you pay insurance for. I know it sounds unfair, but it's not your battle to fight.

Thanks Anan. My insurer confirmed that they received a letter as well but couldn't comment why the claim wasn't settled (maybe because car cost way less than claim). My only worry and question is about court. Why is it that my wife is supposed to attend as according to letter a claim is against her? What happenens when court date comes and claim is still not settled?

pred racer

As above. Advise your insurance policy of all your suspicions and let them sort it out.

166man

Sounds like a pretty horrific scam to me...

biko

Some people will milk every penny out of a fender bender.
But let the insurance people deal with it, they have the experience.

pcardin

pred racer wrote: »

As above. Advise your insurance policy of all your suspicions and let them sort it out.

I did man! Repeating that to them at every conversation. They just keep saying that they are investigating and have experience and all but at the same time saying that it is very hard (read IMPOSSIBLE) to prove that it's a scam. And I have this feeling that my insurer is too lazy to investigate this properly. They haven't even confim me if they ever checked was the driver actually insured at the time or not. All 3rd party solicitor letters are quuoting that car owner was driving which is not true. His wife was.

Not a nice feeling when you've been raped in arse and you can't do anything. :mad:

SeanPuddin

Sounds a bit fishy that she wasn't on the insurance though. Or have I missed something. If she's not insured, their car isn't insured.

corktina

It wont make anydifference to the claim that the other driver wasnt insured...she's still injured (allegedly)

PS Its a scam....the dogs in the street know, sorry for your trouble OP

Anan1

pcardin wrote: »

Not a nice feeling when you've been raped in arse and you can't do anything. :mad:

I hear you, but the insurance company's bottom line is money. Unfortunately it can often be cheaper to settle a small fraudulent claim than to defend it. It'd stick in my throat too, but fretting over it won't help.

Fizman

Completely off topic, I know, but did anyone else read that thread title to the tune of Carly Rae Jepsens - Call Me Maybe??

RossieMan

lesson learned:
always get a Guard to come when in any type of accident, a real one.
Take pictures of each car too at the accident.

if you think its a bit fishy, it usually is.

Unlucky OP.

Chuck_Norris

Fizman wrote: »

Completely off topic, I know, but did anyone else read that thread title to the tune of Carly Rae Jepsens - Call Me Maybe??

I think you're on your own there pal.

Anan1

RossieMan wrote: »

lesson learned:
always get a Guard to come when in any type of accident, a real one.
Take pictures of each car too at the accident.

I don't think any of this would have made any difference. OP's wife changed lanes into another car, so there's no disputing who's at fault. Personal injury cases have always been open to abuse, simply because pain is impossible to objectively measure. It could happen to any of us tomorrow, it's just one of those things.

ballooba

Can the OP report the responding Garda to the ombudsman for dealing with a matter involving a connected person? Are there any rules regarding this? Regardless of any claim, that stinks.

RossieMan

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't think any of this would have made any difference. OP's wife changed lanes into another car, so there's no disputing who's at fault. Personal injury cases have always been open to abuse, simply because pain is impossible to objectively measure. It could happen to any of us tomorrow, it's just one of those things.

That may be true, but at least with a proper Guard they may have not claimed for injury, as the accident would have been investigated properly.
they would have seen it was the woman who was driving, and stopped the claim for the father and daughter.

pcardin

ballooba wrote: »

Can the OP report the responding Garda to the ombudsman for dealing with a matter involving a connected person? Are there any rules regarding this? Regardless of any claim, that stinks.

when I mentioned to my insurance that driver, her husband and garda share the same surname I was told that surname like that is very common in Ireland so it doesn't prove that they are related. When I rang to report accident to their insurer, I was speaking with the person that also had the same surname. Coincidence?

pcardin

RossieMan wrote: »

That may be true, but at least with a proper Guard they may have not claimed for injury, as the accident would have been investigated properly.
they would have seen it was the woman who was driving, and stopped the claim for the father and daughter.

Unfortunately this Garda can well be their brother, cousin or whatever. Why was he at the scene anyway? Because it was well planned?

Anan1

RossieMan wrote: »

That may be true, but at least with a proper Guard they may have not claimed for injury, as the accident would have been investigated properly.
they would have seen it was the woman who was driving, and stopped the claim for the father and daughter.

As corktina said, even if the driver of the other car was uninsured they could still claim against the OP's insurance.

MugMugs

Hi OP.

Firstly, Is your wife contesting liability? It seems to me that she is more or less admitting it. Did you ever receive anything from your insurance company like an accident report form or such? If so, did you fill this out and send it back to them?

In relation to the injury aspect, it's generally cheaper for an Insurer to just give the third party a few grand for whiplash instead of fighting it. Mainly because a defence can run to litigation and can be costly and risky.

Have you insurer conceded liability against you ?

You state concerns that your insurer are not looking into the fact that the other side could well have not been insured. I understand why this is of concern to you but an Insurer is not the law and as such, cannot actually do anything about this matter. You could however, make a report to the Gardai advising that they are making a claim from you for this accident and in turn admitting to driving and in turn could well have been uninsured.

Irrespective though, if the other side was uninsured and you're liable then it doesn't really matter. The other side are still entitled to claim from you.

As already advised, pass all documents to your Insurer. They will act on your behalf. This is what you pay them for.

If you're unhappy with how they are handling your claim then you can start their complaints process and if you're still unhappy you can refer this to the Ombudsman.

MarkR

Even if the other driver wasn't insured, it doesn't affect them claiming from your insurance. More of a matter for the gardai.

Was the daughter in the car? Or was she added later. Gadai would have noted passengers in car surely?

Once you've told the insurers of your suspicions, leave it to them.

pcardin

Antares wrote: »

Hi OP.

Firstly, Is your wife contesting liability? It seems to me that she is more or less admitting it. Did you ever receive anything from your insurance company like an accident report form or such? If so, did you fill this out and send it back to them?

Yes of course, accident report form was sent to us and we filled the information required and sent back to insurer. It was 'independednt accident investigator' supplied by my insurer who determined which party was at fault. But it was done in a lazy way, you changed the lane,didn't see car you're at fault (pretty much like with last driver rear-ending car at front always gets blamed by default based on that he didnt keep distance but we all know that it's not always that black or white clear and truth). So yes, liability was asigned to us.

Antares wrote: »

In relation to the injury aspect, it's generally cheaper for an Insurer to just give the third party a few grand for whiplash instead of fighting it. Mainly because a defence can run to litigation and can be costly and risky.

I understand that, but again it's a bit lazy approach.

Zubeneschamali

pcardin wrote: »

But it was done in a lazy way, you changed the lane,didn't see car you're at fault

Well, you were, weren't you?

Do you really want to stand up in court and pretend you aren't at fault?

pcardin

MarkR wrote: »

Was the daughter in the car? Or was she added later.

Apparently she was, at least 3rd party claim she was. My wife says that she didn't see anyone else.

MarkR wrote: »

Gadai would have noted passengers in car surely?

Yes, maybe, but in this case as I mentioned earlier Garda appeared at the scene after third party driver called him and according to my wife it looked like they knew each other. They al even had the same surname. so I think Garda will confirm absolutely everything what 3rd party is claiming. Unfortunately there was no other Garda at the scene.

pcardin

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Well, you were, weren't you?

Do you really want to stand up in court and pretend you aren't at fault?

First of all, I wasn't driving at all. Second, why do I or my wife suppose to stand in the court at all if we have an insurance?

discombobulate

With the wife not being on the insurance for the car it doesn't necessarily mean that she'd be uninsured as she could have her own policy with driving of other cars included. That'd be possible wouldn't it?

pcardin

discombobulate wrote: »

With the wife not being on the insurance for the car it doesn't necessarily mean that she'd be uninsured as she could have her own policy with driving of other cars included. That'd be possible wouldn't it?

No, of course not. she might have her own policy. Just saying that it looks she wasn't on the policy the number of wich was given to us at accident scene. But as it turns out, it wouldn't matter anyway.

Elfinknight

pcardin wrote: »

No, of course not. she might have her own policy. Just saying that it looks she wasn't on the policy the number of wich was given to us at accident scene. But as it turns out, it wouldn't matter anyway.

Hypothetical situation.
I have a crash in my wife's car, which I drive under the insurance policy of my car, and where I'm in the wrong.

I give the other party the policy number and insurance company on the windscreen. That is the wife policy, on which I'm not named and but not driving under, because of my own open driving policy.

From what I've read so far, won't I then get away without my insurance paying out because you don't have my policy number and the wife's insurance won't have me on their books and will refuse to pay out because it wasn't the person they insured was driving.


Just wondering what would happen in this situation

Shane Fitz

Elfinknight wrote: »

pcardin wrote: »

No, of course not. she might have her own policy. Just saying that it looks she wasn't on the policy the number of wich was given to us at accident scene. But as it turns out, it wouldn't matter anyway.

Hypothetical situation.
I have a crash in my wife's car, which I drive under the insurance policy of my car, and where I'm in the wrong.

I give the other party the policy number and insurance company on the windscreen. That is the wife policy, on which I'm not named and but not driving under, because of my own open driving policy.

From what I've read so far, won't I then get away without my insurance paying out because you don't have my policy number and the wife's insurance won't have me on their books and will refuse to pay out because it wasn't the person they insured was driving.


Just wondering what would happen in this situation

This situation has been debated before and it turned out alot of policies have exclusions on "driving other cars". For example on both my wifes (RSA) and mine (AXA) it specifically excludes any car normally kept at same address and spouses car. So in order for me to drive wifes car insured, or vice versa, we had to both be named on eachothers policies.

Greyfoot

Antares wrote: »

Irrespective though, if the other side was uninsured and you're liable then it doesn't really matter. The other side are still entitled to claim from you.

I remember back a few years ago when the gardai seized my car due to driving without insurance(just got off the boat, didn`t know the rules, or rather didn`t think its that serious offence here)they said many times:
YOU SHOULDN`T BE ON THE ROAD!
In this case the other car shouldn`t been on the road at all either...

Sorry for the off, best of luck OP.

MugMugs

Greyfoot wrote: »

Antares wrote: »

Irrespective though, if the other side was uninsured and you're liable then it doesn't really matter. The other side are still entitled to claim from you.

I remember back a few years ago when the gardai seized my car due to driving without insurance(just got off the boat, didn`t know the rules, or rather didn`t think its that serious offence here)they said many times:
YOU SHOULDN`T BE ON THE ROAD!
In this case the other car shouldn`t been on the road at all either...

Sorry for the off, best of luck OP.

Doesn't matter

1. The insurance company are not a law enforcement agency

2. The third party has still suffered a material loss with the OPs wife with the liability. The uninsured third party aspect is not relevant to the claim.

SilverBell

pcardin wrote: »

Hi all,
Two days ago a new letter from third party drivers husbands solicitors came in with a curt summons were husband is suing my wife for damages made to his car. ............Court date 21st September. .........Attached a letter giving her an option to pay to said husband all amount and then court will be cancelled. . .................. How come third party is dragging my wife to the court?!
.

I am wondering about this bit? Can a solicitor send out a summons? I thought it had to be from the Gardai?

Can someone on here with more legal knowledge than me explain this? Or is it heavy handed tactics from a solicitor?

Pcardin, I dont envy the situation you are in. I dont like their initial garda, husband/wife/driver story, and also the fact that they now say the man was driving, not the lady. Sorry, I have little experience or advice to give you. I'd be keeping copies of all letters their side send you.
And I hope it works out OK for you.

dr.fuzzenstein

ballooba wrote: »

Can the OP report the responding Garda to the ombudsman for dealing with a matter involving a connected person? Are there any rules regarding this? Regardless of any claim, that stinks.

The OP should at least contact the Gardai and find out if that gard exists.

IMO this is a case of someone using the opportunity to squeeze every single last penny out of this, the actual accident could have been genuine enough but a lot of people just smell money and "whiplash" is easily worth E20k, and with two cases, that's nearly E40k.
Not to be sniffed at.
The problem is the quite frankly stupid amount of money paid out for injuries in Ireland.
I have here a link (in German) about a traffic accident where a woman had whiplash. It says the plaintiff got injured, spent time in hospital, took time of work and is in treatment for her injuries.
The amount paid out was E5k.
In the UK you could get as little as £1k for whiplash.
http://www.1stclaims.co.uk/whiplash-compensation/whiplash-claims.php/#
If claims didn't pay out crazy money, people mightn't bother unless they really where injured.
But if someone pushed into me and I fell on my ass, the prospect of getting E20k for that might just be too tempting...

pcardin

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The OP should at least contact the Gardai and find out if that gard exists.

Oh, he does exist indeed. Works in Blackrock Garda station. Have the same surname as 3rd party claimants. Reported that since begining to my insurer and asked to check if they're related. Was told that it's acommon enough surname in Ireland, must be damn common in South Dublin as everyone involved is having it.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

IMO this is a case of someone using the opportunity to squeeze every single last penny out of this, the actual accident could have been genuine enough but a lot of people just smell money and "whiplash" is easily worth E20k, and with two cases, that's nearly E40k.

This is the part that worries me a lot. And I can understand were chancers like them come from. There is even a nice website created with an estimator showing how much money you can 'earn' if you are 'lucky' enough to be hit. http://www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/Estimator/. All you need to do after accident, quickly get home, open estimator and voila! :mad:
Was talking to my insurer this afternoon and they confirmed that insurers solicitors will defend/represent us and we would not need to attend court. But they seemed a bit surprised about the tactics the 3rd party solicitors are using by attacking my wife directly. My insurer also confirmed that they have pushed the claim for car damages back to claimant party as they only presented a mystical amount of €1167 they wish to receive for car damages. No explanation or estimator of what's been done to the car and so on. 3rd party waited 4 months from accident and only then started to claim. My insurer never had a chance to see the car damaged. Very handy me thinks! :mad:
Two personal injury claims came in but again no description of what they want.
We have no problem to accept liability for damage (scratch) done to other car and pay for it. But this whole case stinks badly and I'm trying to figure out how to defend us against this scum.
I've contacted 5 different solicitors in South Dublin area and nobody seemed to be interested. They all are ONLY interested if my situation would be opposite (I was hit).

dr.fuzzenstein

pcardin wrote: »

I've contacted 5 different solicitors in South Dublin area and nobody seemed to be interested. They all are ONLY interested if my situation would be opposite (I was hit).

Yep, would be nice and easy, neckbrace, good show in court, hello E20k and your solicitor gets paid handsomely.
They have to make money somewhere, now that they don't get thousands for signing house deeds.
Any award I handed out in this country should be divided by 10 and then you'll have the figure that should have been paid.
The mere fact that you can get E17k for falling on your arse in Argos only goes to demonstrate that the whole system here is rotten to the core and most likely corrupt.

discombobulate

Makes me sick people that do this **** and the solicitors with no morals that takes the c***ts on!

ferretone

I really just wish the insurers would finally man up to what is going on and start going to court with these whiplash cases. Of course the law needs to get its act together a bit to begin with. I know in Germany you have to prove you didn't have it already to make a case stick, which at least limits it to one per person. I was personally burned many years ago, at the beginning of my driving career, to a bus driver from Belfast, who I later learned had claimed for whiplash no less than 15 times! My case was a very slow-motion collision, of the learner type, that I really could not see how anyone coulda been injured, just not enough momentum to get "whipped".

Insurers rolling over automatically for these cases are costing all of us so much in our premiums. It would only take a few of these being thrown out to make this opportunism stop. A bit more proof on the side of the claimant needs to be required, but I fear that would require legislation, which I can't see enough to be gained for government for them ever to bother doing it.

milltown

Seems like a sh1tty situation OP. My sympathies.

I know you feel like you're being rode but the reason you have insurance is to indemnify you from all of these possibilities. When you pay your insurance company the premium you are basically appointing them to deal with this sort of thing, regardless of scale. That means whether it's a low speed scrape, or your wife loses control of the car and ploughs through the window of a shop full of supermodels and Ming vases, they pay out, not you. You don't get to direct them on which claims they pay out and which ones they fight on principle.

Your insurance company is a (profitable) business too. Risk assessment is what they do. I'd wager that any claim under €5k is probably paid without question unless it stinks to high heaven of fraud and I'm not fully convinced this one does. They assess the risk to themselves and weigh the cost of settling quickly vs. the potential cost of fighting and losing and pay accordingly. They don't need your permission to do so.

The third party's insurance is immaterial to this claim as you/your wife were at fault. (Another pill you have to swallow. It may seem lazy on the assessor's behalf, but if your wife changed lanes and the other driver didn't then it's pretty cut and dried.)

If the other lady was driving without insurance then that's a matter for the Gardaí. If you suspect collusion between the Garda that attended and the third parties, then I would go to the station and ask to speak to the Sergeant. I think it is standard practice for the Gardaí to record all insurance details from an RTA, so ask them to check that the policy number they have for the third party matches the one you have. If it does, let the Gards know what the insurance company told you, vis a vis who and what that policy does and doesn't cover.

mhigh86

Kind of the same thing happened to the mother when i was a kid, both of us in the car, going straight through round a bout outside lane when a car cuts across us from inside to take exit on the right of us, nice bit of damage too both car, the woman in the other car gets out roaring and shouting saying its r fault, the mother starts laughing at her saying it your fault, she goes right im ringing my husband he's a garda, we say u can't do that and ring the garda station.

Both arrive at around the same time, One garda starts marking the road and takes measurements while the other one has a huddle with the women and her husband, the cars are moved and eventually the garda takes down our side of the story, he agrees with us that she is in the wrong.

anyway, the mother starts to make a claim, and is told that the garda lost his notes and measurements, and the whole claim stalls, along time went by at this stage we have fixed the car and paid for it. (I know silly move) And the cheeky B1tch put a claim in against the mother which went on for ages and her insurance paid out.

lau1247

SilverBell wrote: »

Pcardin, I dont envy the situation you are in. I dont like their initial garda, husband/wife/driver story, and also the fact that they now say the man was driving, not the lady. Sorry, I have little experience or advice to give you. I'd be keeping copies of all letters their side send you.
And I hope it works out OK for you.

just a thought, obviously OP's wife was at the scene and know the situation well. From the story, the 3rd party missus called the husband and now the 3rd party husband supposedly the "Driver" on the day according to the claim.

Can OP somehow make a case of fraud for Garda (a different one that is not bias) to investigate to get whatever rights they need to go after mobile operator to check the call record?? OP's wife and garda should have good approx details of the time which the accident occur..

The garda should have a record of the contact detail taken down on the day and between the two mobile numbers of the 3rd party husband and wife, the record should show the wife called the husband on the day straight after the incident and that he is not at the scene at the time.

Looks like OP/OP's wife is going to take a hit either way because of scum like these, might as well try to bring them down at their own game..

Yawns

lau1247 wrote: »

Can OP somehow make a case of fraud for Garda (a different one that is not bias)

It's a highly likely situation that the garda's surname is Byrne or Fitzpatrick or Dunne or any common enough surname in Dublin. Didn't the op also say the insurance guy had the same name?

lau1247

Yawns wrote: »

It's a highly likely situation that the garda's surname is Byrne or Fitzpatrick or Dunne or any common enough surname in Dublin. Didn't the op also say the insurance guy had the same name?

when I say fraud, i meant in the sense that the husband wasn't the driver on the day but the claim is stating that it is..

I hope you read the full post before you reply, i don't know how much clearer I can make it

hondasam

RossieMan wrote: »

That may be true, but at least with a proper Guard they may have not claimed for injury, as the accident would have been investigated properly.
they would have seen it was the woman who was driving, and stopped the claim for the father and daughter.

The insurance company will most likely contact the garda to get the report on the accident.
The garda can only give his opinion after he arrived as he did not witness who was driving. There is no investigation it's civil remedy and down to insurance companies.
I think the OP is unfair here and making lots of assumptions about the garda who I'm sure is not willing to lose his job and reputation.

I think this thread should be in conspiracy theories.

pcardin

hondasam wrote: »

I think the OP is unfair here and making lots of assumptions about the garda who I'm sure is not willing to lose his job and reputation.

I think this thread should be in conspiracy theories.

Would you explain this more? How exactly am I unfair?
Women driver has the same surname as her husband. Logic enough. Garda comes on scene alone after a "special" call from driver. Has the same surname. Oookkkeyy...could be common surname. Pick up my phone to ring and report accident to their insurer, person dealing with me - same surname again.

What do other users here on Boards think? Is it coininsedence, am I making conspiracy or it's sounds/look like a scum?

pcardin

mhigh86 wrote: »

Both arrive at around the same time, One garda starts marking the road and takes measurements

This. Where is this now? This is the way accidents are being dealt with in most countries, why is this not happening in Ireland anymore?

MugMugs

pcardin wrote: »

This. Where is this now? This is the way accidents are being dealt with in most countries, why is this not happening in Ireland anymore?

Why?

Are you contesting liability or something?

Your wife changed lanes and didn't check her blind spot. She crossed the third parties path. Why bother doing a CSI on it?

In fact, the Gardai aren't meant to be called unless there's injuries.

knipex

Insurnace compannies suck

Many many years ago I was over taking a line of 3 cars where the first car was driving slow and constantly brakign hard for very sign. Just as I was passing the middle car the guy in front pulled out in front of me. I braked hard, tried to cut in behind him but ended up hitting him in the rear quarter. I hadnet been waering a seatbelt (this was a long time ago) and hit the windscreen, ended up witha bad concussion.

The third car drove off but the driver of the second car stayed on the scene untill the guards came and took statements. The guy was charged with careless driving but his solicitor kep putting off the case. About 18 months later it came to court. Turn out the driver of the second car, the only independent witness was from Germany and had been in country on a fixed term contract for a big engineering job. The guys solicitor just kept putting off the case untill his contact ended and he was gone home. Due to the concussion I had (and to this day) no memory of the accident so couldnt act as a witness... Case dropped.

After the case was dropped two guards stopped me outside the court. They told me what had happened and said that while they couldn't use the info they had in a criminal case to pass their details to the insurance company. Which I did.. (apparently no claim could be made until the criminal case was settled). My insurance paid out........

I went to my borker to find out what the hell happened. After much investigation we found out unoffically that he had full comp insurance, I was a young male driver had a decent car but couldnt even dream of getting full comp only third party. Same insurnace company covered both of us so cheaper to pay on my policy. I went nuts, went to solicitor and lodged a complaint. Insurnace company eventually gave me a guarntee to load my insurnace and that I could keep my noclaims bonus.. Still had the accident on my record and couldnt change insurnace companies untill 5 years had passed...

pcardin

Antares wrote: »

Why?

Are you contesting liability or something?

Your wife changed lanes and didn't check her blind spot. She crossed the third parties path. Why bother doing a CSI on it?

In fact, the Gardai aren't meant to be called unless there's injuries.

No I'am not denying our liability for the scratch we caused to to 3rd party car and are ready to pay for it.
I was talking in general. Normaly in most countries police will arrive in every case of raod accident. They will check every detail on the spot - car tests, tax, insurance. They will have everything meassured and everything protocoled and they will be the ones telling wich party is at fault. I don't know about you but I definitely would feel more comfortable if police decides that. Here, police doesn't give the damn fcuk, whoever is quicker and has a nastier solicitor wins the case. Nothing can be proved and everything is based on absumptions. At every accident a famous whiplash comedy kicks in making people here the most vunerable drivers in the world.

Yawns

knipex wrote: »

Insurnace compannies suck

Many many years ago I was over taking a line of 3 cars

Right there is where any sympathy you might have had ended. You yourself should have been charged with dangerous driving along with the first guy if your story has any truth what so ever.

Yawns

pcardin wrote: »

No I'am not denying our liability for the scratch we caused to to 3rd party car and are ready to pay for it.
I was talking in general. Normaly in most countries police will arrive in every case of raod accident. They will check every detail on the spot - car tests, tax, insurance. They will have everything meassured and everything protocoled and they will be the ones telling wich party is at fault. I don't know about you but I definitely would feel more comfortable if police decides that. Here, police doesn't give the damn fcuk, whoever is quicker and has a nastier solicitor wins the case. Nothing can be proved and everything is based on absumptions. At every accident a famous whiplash comedy kicks in making people here the most vunerable drivers in the world.

Yeah over here the guards don't determine who is at fault. That's why if there is no one injured you don't call the guards. Some people still do and can. Generally speaking they are not to be called unless there is an injury or someone committed an offence or you suspect they are committing an offence. Such as non insurance or them leaving the scene so to speak.

Because you won't be contesting that your wife is at fault then it will be an open and shut case for the insurance companies. They will pay out for damage to the other car and highly likely pay out for whiplash claims as it's hard to disprove so they won't want to draw it out in court.

Forget about the surnames for a minute. It doesn't matter if they all have the same surname in regards to your insurance company. They will be paying out even if the guard is related to the man and his wife somehow because as you know your wife is at fault.

It seems like you are over complicating things a bit. Does it not go likes this basically:

Party A hits Party B's car.

Party B calls husband and a guard.

The husband of Party B is most likely the registered owner so it's him who is claiming for the actual car damage done.

The wife of Party B along with daughter claiming for injuries sustained.

The guard probably does know them and could be related to them. However that doesn't matter because they did not cause the accident and they are the perceived victims in this case. It was their car that was struck.

Forget about anything you receive from their solicitor. Forward everything to your insurance company and if the other party's solicitor contacts you again, tell him everything is to go through the insurance company and you don't want any more contact. Your wife can't be taken to court over this as she was insured and this is exactly what it's there to cover. Don't worry about this part. Let them handle it.

dr.fuzzenstein

^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said.
It sucks and it's good to rant about it, but at the end of the day, there's nothing that can be done,short of hiring your own investigative team and some very good solicitors and you still might loose.
I'm afraid they have you over a barrel and nothing can be done about it.
I still think it stinks, I still think the 3rd party is using the auld whiplash shtick to make a few bob for themselves, but that's the way it goes.
Think of it this way:
One day someone might tip into you and then you can claim whiplash, stress, loss of earnings, therapy for all the above for yourself and your entire family and their pets.
The system works that way, it welcomes claims, is glad to pay them, so if you don't get every penny for yourself these days, your being played as the sucker.