Why don't gardai catch bike thieves?

goldie fish

bill buchanan wrote: »

I don't own a bike
.

I don't believe that for a second.

bill buchanan

goldie fish wrote: »

I don't believe that for a second.

It shouldn't matter. But I've never cycled in ireland since I was a kid, when I had a BMX (not sure what model). I used to cycle to work when I lived in NZ for 2 years. I'm an advocate of helmets and fining cyclists who don't wear them. I'm also an advocate of harsher penalties for the many cyclists who break red lights and don't wear reflectors etc.

That's my cycling history. Does it make a difference to anything I've said?

Potential-Monke

bill buchanan wrote: »

So, to turn this around. Do you think that gardai should not concentrate on finding stolen bicycles? Is that garda policy? Does that mean the OP is correct?

I don't own a bike and have no connection with tha gardai, but I'm surprised at the above tacit admission that they basically won't look for it. i suspect the public would be too.

Not saying it's right or wrong. Just something most people wouldn't be aware of.

The individual Garda involved will keep an eye out for a stolen bicycle that might match the description given, but they don't have time to specifically look for the bicycle which, 99% of the time, will be long gone outside the district and out of reach of the investigating member. Garda Murphy* in Bray will not care that Garda Byrne* in Anglesea Street is looking for a stolen bike.

Again, it would be great to give the CSI/Law and Order style of investigation to each and every incident (ie: do more or less nothing else until it's solved!), but the reality is that any single frontline Garda could have 100's of different cases of theft to investigate (Section 4 theft doesn't go statute barred) so it's impossible to investigate them all individually. Just as an example, in one 8 hour shift i attended 6 burglaries and 4 thefts among other calls. Each of them had specific items taken. It would have been great to sit in and individually investigate each case over the next few days, but the reality was that the following day i was back out in the car again taking on more and more thefts/burglaries/public order/road traffic, etc. You can see where i'm going with this...

*Made up names

Qualitymark

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The individual Garda involved will keep an eye out for a stolen bicycle that might match the description given, but they don't have time to specifically look for the bicycle which, 99% of the time, will be long gone outside the district and out of reach of the investigating member. Garda Murphy* in Bray will not care that Garda Byrne* in Anglesea Street is looking for a stolen bike.

That's more or less what I'm saying. I can't understand why there isn't a central registry, so Garda Byrne and Garda Murphy will both be able to see bikes that are stolen (and recovered).

As for gardaí not having time to investigate crimes, hmm.

Of course no one expects a garda to drop everything else and rush around after stolen bicycles, handbags, diamond rings, etc; but if there's CCTV at a known half-hour, say, of someone stealing a bike, you'd think it'd be possible to have that on the PULSE system where Garda Brogan in Ballydehob [makeyuppyname] might say "Oho, that's the boyo I see every day."

Turner

There are facilities available to Gardai like so say above.

There is to be no talk of any pulse related crime investigation techniques. Any such action will result in a lock and ban

Qualitymark

Turner wrote: »

There is to be no talk of any pulse related crime investigation techniques. Any such action will result in a lock and ban

Eh? Didn't know that. Sorry 'bout that, chief.

Potential-Monke

Qualitymark wrote: »

As for gardaí not having time to investigate crimes, hmm.

Here's the central problem imo. We're verging on going into too much detail, but i will say that given enough time, we could solve alot of crimes, but it's time that we don't have anymore, and time which has to be divided between fewer members in an environment where crime is rising which equals more crimes for investigation per member.

Also, CCTV is great if the owner of said cameras has made sure that the cameras are:

A: Working
B: Recording
C: Clean
Of good quality (some use webcams...)
E: Pointing in the right direction
F: That someone is in situ that knows how to work it/download the footage

Vikings

Qualitymark wrote: »

Low-risk. Because it's not targeted.

Target bicycle thefts? What type of crime/crimes would you suggest see less time devoted to it in order to devote more time to bicycle thefts?

Qualitymark

Vikings wrote: »

Target bicycle thefts? What type of crime/crimes would you suggest see less time devoted to it in order to devote more time to bicycle thefts?

Since bicycle theft is a gateway crime that leads young people into other crimes (as well as stolen bicycles routinely being used for escape after other thefts), targeting bicycle crime would effectively cut down other crimes.

Potential-Monke

Qualitymark wrote: »

Since bicycle theft is a gateway crime that leads young people into other crimes (as well as stolen bicycles routinely being used for escape after other thefts), targeting bicycle crime would effectively cut down other crimes.

It might, but only for a short time until they figure out something else. But it's an uphill struggle, we recovered a very unique bike the other night, and no mention of it anywhere in Ireland being stolen...

Qualitymark

Potential-Monke wrote: »

we recovered a very unique bike the other night, and no mention of it anywhere in Ireland being stolen...

Very well done!

goldie fish

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It might, but only for a short time until they figure out something else. But it's an uphill struggle, we recovered a very unique bike the other night, and no mention of it anywhere in Ireland being stolen...

Another one for the Public Auctions so?

Qualitymark

goldie fish wrote: »

Another one for the Public Auctions so?

Or put it on the Garda TV programme, in a segment about the necessity to report bicycles stolen (which many people currently don't do because there's a perception that it's pointless because the Gardaí won't investigate anyway).

foxcoverteddy

To start it is easy to criticise, but if the government choose to reduce the number of garda or the funding you cannot expect any more than you are getting.
I am not a Garda and have no affiliations, just using common sense.
However the one item missing from all the posts on bike theft is insurance.
One presumes that many of the bikes taken are high profile machines, which do not come cheap.
I am probably doing this the wrong way round having not investigated cycle insurance, again I am presuming the frame number would be the identifying factor, I am also presuming that the new owner of the stolen machine will insure it.
Like many classes of insurance statistics are kept to ensure companies are not taking known bad risks, this is within the industry in this country.
I am again presuming that cycle claim losses can be circulated within the industry and when the the new owner goes to insure, warning lights indicate a claim has already been paid.
I am against even more financial hardship but are we not getting to the point of compulsary bike insurance, compulsary helmets, reflector jackets etc.
Given a badly ridden bike is as much of a danger as a motor propelled vehicle, and given stopping them in emergency is not that brilliant, should it become law for rider's to be insured.
Home insurance in many cases covers third party claims and might include bikes kept on the premises, not everyone has home insurance unfortunately.
Is this an unexplored avenue of attack on the scumbags of this world.

SerialComplaint

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Given a badly ridden bike is as much of a danger as a motor propelled vehicle, and given stopping them in emergency is not that brilliant, should it become law for rider's to be insured.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Cars kill hundreds of people each year and maim others. You could count the number of incidents caused by cyclists that involve serious injury on one or two hands.

I think you're getting mixed up between property insurance (the value of the bike) and liability insurance (the value of any injuries or damaged caused by the cyclist).

Qualitymark

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

However the one item missing from all the posts on bike theft is insurance.

Most bicycles are uninsured; bicycle insurance is very expensive.

foxcoverteddy

Well my friend I did not get mixed up and it was to illustrate a problem and not taken as by your goodself.
I tried to insure a 1500 euro bike, easy fork out the 165euro and it is insured on line, no question as to the frame number.
Identifying bikes is probably very difficult for anyone except an expert, the only true method is the frame number.
If someone loses a bike and claims there is nothing to identify the same bike being insured elsewhere or even with the same insurer, right.
Identity is the key, and compulsary insurance, as our friend pointed out the b ike and injury are different, so very true, but at the moment many cyclist have neither so in the event of a happening how does the injured party get re-imbursed?
Insurer's would be able to assist the Garda with stolen bikes details aqnd also if and who was re-insuring them.
You can of course say nonsense, rubbish etc but unless you go down a more stringent path, bikes will get dearer and the loss greater, and of course our scum bags are still laughing.
Come up with some other idea but don't winge at any attempt to protect our pride and joy, unfortunately it is normally the old who have nothing better to do. Have a nice day, time to clean the bike, bye

Qualitymark

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Identity is the key, and compulsary insurance, as our friend pointed out the b ike and injury are different, so very true, but at the moment many cyclist have neither so in the event of a happening how does the injured party get re-imbursed?

I couldn't really afford €150+ to insure my bicycle against theft. I'd like to think that good policing and sensible locking would be its best protection.

As far as I know, my household insurance covers damage to anyone I may crash into and injure (highly unlikely, thank goodness) as I pedal slowly along on the push bike in the cycle lane.

are you serious

Qualitymark wrote: »

I couldn't really afford €150+ to insure my bicycle against theft. I'd like to think that good policing and sensible locking would be its best protection.

Just picking out one point here Qualitymark.. "Good Policing" as you put it happens all day every day, but Gardaí can not (contrary to popular belief) be everywhere you may want them to be at one time...

Going by your statement, nobody should insure anything against theft then..? Come off it...!!

foxcoverteddy

hang on lads, my suggestion was an attempt to promote an idea to stop the theft of bikes, it did not intend for anyone to fall out with someone.
Yes of course bike insurance is dear, so are some of the bikes.
Of course there are those amongst us who would have difficulty paying the premiums, like me for instance.
However insurers could put a spoke so to speak in the scum bags operation, registration of frame numbers can be the only way forward.
Come on lets pedal together to beat the robber's.

Qualitymark

are you serious wrote: »

Going by your statement, nobody should insure anything against theft then..? Come off it...!!

Not what I said.

However insurers could put a spoke so to speak in the scum bags operation, registration of frame numbers can be the only way forward.
Come on lets pedal together to beat the robber's.

It's also possible that if there was (affordable) insurance, the large and politically powerful insurance companies would use their influence to force the Gardaí to change their attitude to bicycle thefts.

foxcoverteddy

You cannot expect the garda to, lets be honest their job is difficult enough, bikes have no visible means of identification and unless one is well up on bikes how do you expect someone to say, that looks like the bike that was stolen etc.
In any case how would you feel if you were stopped for your bike to be checked for some identity, there would be a great howl, and shouts of Garda brutality.
Do you know, when our bobby had his BMX bike stolen in Dungarvan about six or seven weeks ago we went to Halfords and said we didn't take down the frame number, could you give us the information? No was the answer because according to our branch they have no record of frame number's.
Do other bike shops operate on the same principle?
If you want to reduce bike crime then it has to be way of registration, at least we would have a record of stolen frames, at present anyone buying a secondhand bike has no idea if it is a genuine sale or stolen.
An official website with a list of stolen frame number's would allow the would be buyer to check, so that the bike couldn't be registered, the seller then reported to the Garda.
We are not talking cheapo bikes or kiddies bikes nor old hacks which have no value only to the owner, it is the prestige makes and the serious cyclist machines.
The cycle industry and owners have to work with the Garda, saying I have lost my whatever machine go and find it and arrest the culprit, it is just not on. Isn't it like leaving the keys in the ignition and wandering off to the shops.
Can anyone give a better view point on how to stop criminals, if they cannot sell them there is little point stealing them in the first place.
Of course one is presupposing that no serious cyclist would buy a machine which he or she believed had been stolen, would they?
Foxy

Qualitymark

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

In any case how would you feel if you were stopped for your bike to be checked for some identity.

I'd be fecking delighted.

Indeed, this used to happen in the 1960s and before, and you could be asked to prove with a receipt (with a frame number on it) that the bicycle was yours.

foxcoverteddy

Qualitymark, me thinks we are on the same wavelength, thanks mate

esf2012

Qualitymark wrote: »

As far as I know, my household insurance covers damage to anyone I may crash into and injure

Exactly why would insurance covering a stationary building have collision cover for third party property? Bike theft, yeah but covering a Mercedes that you smashed into? I seriously doubt that's part of any standard policy.

Qualitymark

esf2012 wrote: »

Exactly why would insurance covering a stationary building have collision cover for third party property? Bike theft, yeah but covering a Mercedes that you smashed into? I seriously doubt that's part of any standard policy.

No idea, but so I've heard. I may have been misinformed, don't know.

Vikings

Qualitymark wrote: »

use their influence to force the Gardaí to change their attitude to bicycle thefts.

And just what is that attitude? I'd imagine most Gardaí treat bicycle thefts the same as any other crime involving property be it shoplifting or mobile phone thefts etc.

foxcoverteddy

seriously, this really has nothing to do with what House Insurance covers or doesn't cover.
Mercedes Benz and crashing etc are red herrings, and in fairness do nothing to bring us close to nabbing the culprits who take our bikes.
Whilst I appreciate there is always some dilema in legal inferences to insurance which is not helped by the insurance companies, we are trying to go down an avenue solely for the protection of bikes.
Bike insurance on it's own is costly, maybe one could get an extension to an existing household policy, but it would be necessary to satisfy oneself that the cover is equal to the individual contract.
We are striving to get a system of registration that insurers can incorporate into their system which identifies cycles they are insuring and claims being made for lost/stolen machines.
The sheer lack of record keeping can and no doubt leads to the same company paying for the loss of the same bike more than once.
Apart from protecting our bikes we could well have created a few hundred jobs, no mean feat.
Anyone buying a secondhand bike will be able to check to see if the frame is listed as a lost or stolen before handing over the cash.
Any seller who wants no part of this would immediately be suspect.
We m ight just be able to get an original registration for each bike, new ones would automzatically be given this unique number and a record created for that and the frame number with brief details of the bike.
We would not perhaps burden the Garda with administrative duties which no doubt they could well do without.
It means no bikes can be sold or purchased without being registered.
The garda could of course stop any cyclist to check the details if they so wished.
Would this help?

esf2012

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

seriously, this really has nothing to do with what House Insurance covers or doesn't cover.
Mercedes Benz and crashing etc are red herrings, and in fairness do nothing to bring us close to nabbing the culprits who take our bikes.
Whilst I appreciate there is always some dilema in legal inferences to insurance which is not helped by the insurance companies, we are trying to go down an avenue solely for the protection of bikes.
Bike insurance on it's own is costly, maybe one could get an extension to an existing household policy, but it would be necessary to satisfy oneself that the cover is equal to the individual contract.
We are striving to get a system of registration that insurers can incorporate into their system which identifies cycles they are insuring and claims being made for lost/stolen machines.
The sheer lack of record keeping can and no doubt leads to the same company paying for the loss of the same bike more than once.
Apart from protecting our bikes we could well have created a few hundred jobs, no mean feat.
Anyone buying a secondhand bike will be able to check to see if the frame is listed as a lost or stolen before handing over the cash.
Any seller who wants no part of this would immediately be suspect.
We m ight just be able to get an original registration for each bike, new ones would automzatically be given this unique number and a record created for that and the frame number with brief details of the bike.
We would not perhaps burden the Garda with administrative duties which no doubt they could well do without.
It means no bikes can be sold or purchased without being registered.
The garda could of course stop any cyclist to check the details if they so wished.
Would this help?

The insurance thing was only that it caught me as a strange inclusion in a policy, that and the fact that quality constantly relies on what some birdy told him to be cold hard facts.

In regards your post above, I could not agree more but any such move has to start with owners taking some responsibility for the property and that means knowing the serial number and using bike racks instead of random trees.

Its simple not good enough that people complain about the Gardai not solving bike thefts when half the time the victims can barely tell you the colour nevermind the make or model (and as for serial numbers, could find the meaning of life faster)

foxcoverteddy

thanks for your post, I of course presumed anyone with a bike over 200 euro is going to take some modicum of care, the dearer the bike the greater the care, though that should not be a factor as they represent a substantial outlay.
However perhaps there is a factor that has been overlooked, are the bikes stolen not insured, though reading the post's many appear to be buying the best locks etc.
I think the insurance premium could well be set to discourage those who are less careful.
We used to live in a house with a long hall, the bike was never left out, actually I did the same with a motorcycle, which was a bit dodgy to say the least, the guy next door was not a happy bunny.
Back to where we were, perhaps more information may come to light as to moving forward if not this idea maybe something better.
Good Luck, Foxy