The perfect PLCE setup? (Irish DF)

Manic Moran

As a newb on here I would not dare acost a MOD but there are differences between an SA80 and a Steyr. We have to adhere to DF doctrine I am afraid and there are experts with more knowledge than you, me or Manic that have decided that the Steyr should not be fired with a blocked barrel

Oh, no issues with being argued with, as long as it's civil. I don't believe anyone could say I've ever abused my position for such a reason.

I fully agree with you that no weapon should ever be fired with a blocked barrel, Steyr or otherwise. This goes from 5.56mm to 120mm.



I'm reasonably familiar with the AUG, I own one. My question isn't whether it is safe to shoot with a blocked barrel, my question is what it is that one may have done to result in the barrel being blocked in the first place. The worst I can think of is tripping over and falling with the muzzle impacting into dirt or mud, but I can't see it getting much past the flash suppressor except in fairly rare circumstances which, as Morpheus points out, requires a pushrod. Can it happen? Sure. I am not convinced it happens often enough to be worried about, though.

And a boresnake as another poster says, is the job!

Agreed. One's in my home-made kit.

NTM

Manic Moran

neilled wrote: »

Repeatedly firing blanks will build up enough carbon to prevent an armourers push through from fitting down the barrel of a weapon - so if you go from a blank - full stripdown then onwards to live fire scenario you have a major problem, weapons may not be fit to fire.

As an aside, and we have no idea why this is the case, but we have concluded that repeated use of an M2 .50 cal barrel to send blanks through will render it unservicable for live fire. It is to the point that every .50 cal in the unit has a designated exercise barrel and qualification barrel, marked accordingly.

NTM

Morpheus

same with our GPMG's. blue barrels for firing blank and red barrels for training (stripping reassembling), normal (black) barrels for live fire on range etc.

Midnight Oil

Manic Moran wrote: »

As an aside, and we have no idea why this is the case, but we have concluded that repeated use of an M2 .50 cal barrel to send blanks through will render it unservicable for live fire. It is to the point that every .50 cal in the unit has a designated exercise barrel and qualification barrel, marked accordingly.

NTM

The blank HMG rounds we have are a disaster. They are completely plastic and after firing a few they start melting in the breach.

thermo

Morphéus wrote: »

well its simple science really.

A pullthrough, by its very nature, must be fed completely through a barrel in order to be "pulled".

impossible really, if one end is blocked!

A pushrod however only has to go in one end and can force a foreign body back out of the bore.

agreed.
i have one of these with a hopps boresnake and it covers all bases. can be attached to a belt order or vest via the alice clip.

Maoltuile

thermo wrote: »

agreed.
i have one of these with a hopps boresnake and it covers all bases. can be attached to a belt order or vest via the alice clip.

This is my kit as well. The only addition is the green pot scrub thingies.

Mr. Tezza

thermo wrote: »

agreed.
i have one of these with a hopps boresnake and it covers all bases. can be attached to a belt order or vest via the alice clip.

Looks handy, I use/have an SA80 desert/light cleaning kit which I got off fleabay and use thatwhenever i'm on the ground, i'll big it out and take a pic of it, only diffeence really is that is uses a lanyard instead of a cleaning rod.

I don't think there is a perfect PLCE setup, only whats most comfortable for you and works best for you...

thermo

Maoltuile wrote: »

This is my kit as well. The only addition is the green pot scrub thingies.

oops i forgot i had one of them too. the ones that used to come in the ration packs.

OzCam

Forgive me asking, but what's the designated position for a FAK in the PDF? And how/why does it differ from anyone else's (USA/UK) position?

Praetorian Saighdiuir

OzCam wrote: »

Forgive me asking, but what's the designated position for a FAK in the PDF? And how/why does it differ from anyone else's (USA/UK) position?

It must be the tiredness, but, what the hell is a FAK?

Donny5

benwavner wrote: »

FAK?

First Aid Kit.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Donny5 wrote: »

First Aid Kit.

Thanks, never heard that before.

Doctor14

OzCam wrote: »

Forgive me asking, but what's the designated position for a FAK in the PDF? And how/why does it differ from anyone else's (USA/UK) position?

We tend to call them IFAKs - Individual First Aid Kit.

IFAKs tend to be small things usually part of the CELO. The US/UK version of the IFAK is a major trauma thing and won't be seen in the Irish Army for a while. I understand that things are changing and the courses are being done to train people in the use of a full IFAK.

Manic Moran

Outside of the nose hose and tourniquet, there isn't actually all that much in the US IFAK that you wouldn't find in the average individual aid kit. The CLS bag, which is usually one per vehicle, is a bit more in-depth.

concussion

For what it's worth, my CEFO is set up as follows (anti-clockwise from buckle):

Double ammo pouch, holds 4 Steyr magazines

Bayonet frog

Utility pouch, holds 58 Ptn water bottle, metal mug, ziplock of tea/sugar/whitener, couple of hexi blocks, matches, green scouring pad

Utility pouch, holds 1xmain meal, rifle cleaning kit in tupperware box, monocular (used to be a binocular ), GPS when not on wrist, Leatherman, black tape, arc markers, mine markers, 2xglowsticks, AA and AAA batteries, sandbags

Utility pouch, holds 200 rds 7.62

Single utility pouch, divider removed, holds Israeli dressing, compression bandage, rolls of gauze, extra gloves (intend on including CAT and naso-tube)

Double ammo pouch, dividers removed, holds magazines, smoke grenades, frag grenades or mini themal flask as required

Finished off with a 58 Ptn clip on the yoke straps so I can clip my helmet on easily when required. Has not been modified in 5 years and has been which me while a student and instructor on several career courses.

Microfleece, pre-powdered spare socks c/w Goretex liner, food, waterproof jacket, hydration pack in daysack, with lots of space left for ammo/radio/other bulky, heavy military kit,

Smock holds TAM's, maps, cam cream, whistle, compass, gloves, hat, glucose tabs, sweets etc etc etc.

OzCam

Sorry, I should have said first aid kit, I had Manic's IFAK in my head while typing.

Many hard lessons have been learned in trauma management in Iraq & Afghanistan over the last 15 years. I'm wondering how that has influenced PLCE bearing in mind that the PDF don't - not yet anyway - use a full Osprey/IOTV style setup (apart from the vest-over-armour system on some recent missions).

The list of contents of various kits are in plenty of places around the net. It also makes sense for everyone in a unit/brigade/army to carry it in some standard position so it can be found by a comrade in a hurry. What I was getting at is why it would be carried in one position rather than another.

Manic Moran

IFAK is a large piece of kit, it's a SAW (M249) ammo pouch converted. There aren't very many places one can put it. It pretty much has to be at hip level, your only question is if you want it on the left side or the right side. If it's on the the wearer's left side, then to someone facing you, the kit is on the right side: He can easily use his right hand (normally the dominant hand) to start pulling stuff out. Arguably, also, for someone opening his own IFAK, it's a little easier to 'cross-draw'.

Maoltuile

OzCam wrote: »

Sorry, I should have said first aid kit, I had Manic's IFAK in my head while typing.

Many hard lessons have been learned in trauma management in Iraq & Afghanistan over the last 15 years.

Maybe the most useful and interesting training I've done in the past few months was on casualty triage (by a qualified and experienced instructor), followed by a challenging exercise. It's a big change from the old days of 'first aid'.

marketty

The two most important things to carry in your plce on the ground are cigarettes and toilet paper (or 'white gold' as its known).
Anything you are stuck for can usually be bought with one of the above!

Mr. Tezza

Ok, for people looking to adjust what they have and what to have, this is my CEFO layout (If anyone wants my Bergen layout they can PM me). Given to me on a course and i've used it ever since...

SMOCK - survival

Top right pocket

• Battlebook
• Orbat
• Tacaids - individual
• Spoon/Spork

Top left pocket

• Map of Location
• Chinagraph
• Black Marker
• Compass (on lanyard)
• Whistle (on lanyard)

Bottom Right Pocket

• Gloves (fingerless)
• Knife (on lanyard) (not necessary in some cases)
• Boonie Hat
• Camo Net (optional)

Bottom Left Pocket

• Radio
• Camostick
• Mirror (shatterproof)
• Headtorch (red filter)

Inside pocket

• Opord

CEFO - Combat Effective Fighting Order

Front left strap

• Ear Protection (incl inserts for FIBUA)

(Pouches layout left to right) Ammo, Water bottle, 3xkidney pouches , ammo)

last ammo pouch ALWAYS kept empty to carry LMG ammo (marked with white tape)

water bottle pouch keeps...

• Waterbottle
• Puri tabs (ration pack)
• Metal mug (optional)

2xKidney pouches at rear OR 1xUtility pouch (god-awful things)

• First Aid Kit
• Flexi-cuffs (optional)
• Spare Laces
• Baby wipes (uber important!)
• Paracord
• Waterproof matches (ration pack)
• Rifle Cleaning Kit

If your carry more than that your definately carrying too much!

Doctor14

Mr. Tezza wrote: »

CEFO - Combat Effective Fighting Order

CEFO = Combat Equipment Fighting Order.

Updated in 2007 to include Daysack as part of the CEFO

Mr. Tezza

Doctor14 wrote: »

CEFO = Combat Equipment Fighting Order.

Updated in 2007 to include Daysack as part of the CEFO

Always known it/been taught it as being effective not equipment but thanks for the correction.

Ah I don't include my daysack as part of my CEFO list but I suppose I could amend it to include it in there.Its in my CEMO list alrite as my daysack/grabsack goes into my bergen, hence being in my CEMO list not my CEFO list...

OzCam

What's in your Individual First Aid Kit?

The Mad Duo at Breach Bang Clear have a link to an article written by a Canadian Forces medic. Some folks here might find it useful.

How do you decide what your element packs in their Individual First Aid Kit (IFAK)? On most deployments, units issue very basic first aid equipment. Most of the time, it consists of a pressure dressing, tourniquet, and a hemostatic dressing. As a mechanized infantry company medic, this may be more than sufficient when you consider the combined organic assets of infantry company. Would that be enough in a small unit embedded with LN security forces?

Full article is at http://privatebloggins.ca/?p=596

Mr. Tezza

OzCam wrote: »

What's in your Individual First Aid Kit?

The Mad Duo at Breach Bang Clear have a link to an article written by a Canadian Forces medic. Some folks here might find it useful.



Full article is at http://privatebloggins.ca/?p=596

I dunno what other people carry but in my own personal first aid kit (carried in Kidney pouches, bigger first aid kit in bergen) I carry stuff for my feet mostly, like blister patches and foot powder, that sorta thing as well as stuff to treat minor cuts/abrasions and heat wrap or my hands if they get frozen that type of thing...