Samantha Brick & Aborting Down's Syndrome babies...

davet82

'my husband and I have discussed in depth and at length whether we could keep a baby diagnosed with Down's Syndrome'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2178789/Samantha-Brick-Journalist-admits-seriously-consider-aborting-IVF-baby-Downs-Syndrome.html#ixzz21iy8rkjm [/QUOTE]

Does she have a point? Would you abort a child because it was diagnosed with Downs?

I think this women is delusional attention grabbing idiot anyways...

I dont agree with abortion so this wouldnt be an issue for me but for those that do, would you consider aborting a child with Downs Syndrome?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

if you agree that abortion isn't a problem then you've no business giving out to anybody for the reason they had an abortion, whether it's because it was at disk of having down syndrome, being female or having brown eyes.

if it's not a human life it's nnot a human life.

mauzo

I dont agree with abortion, but jesus her mother should have considered it.

FatherLen

at this stage i think she might be doing it on purpose.

davet82

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

if you agree that abortion isn't a problem then you've no business giving out to anybody for the reason they had an abortion, whether it's because it was at disk of having down syndrome, being female or having brown eyes.

if it's not a human life it's nnot a human life.

thats a fair point

SocSocPol

Its as good a reason as any to terminate a pregnancy, and probably a better reason than most. No issue with it really.

mauzo

FatherLen wrote: »

at this stage i think she might be doing it on purpose.

Of course she is. Everything she says is for shock value, and said to annoy people. Keeps people talking about her.

FatherLen

syndeyfife wrote: »

Of course she is. Everything she says is for shock value, and said to annoy people. Keeps people talking about her.

well she is ridiculously good looking.

B.A._Baracus

Being honest, I really don't care what Samantha Brick has to say after that "i'm so goodlooking" article she had. Attention seeker.

abouttobebanned

I'm not sure what the shock value in that is tbh. If you found out early enough, I think it's a conversation you would seriously have.

Scioch

I think its a perfectly valid decision to make.

Diapason

I assume that when people do the in utero test for Down's that this is one of the options they're considering in the event of bad news? So Samantha Brick is hardly alone here (not that I have a clue who she is).

davet82

LordSmeg wrote: »

I think its a perfectly valid decision to make.

For who the baby or the parents?


(I'm just curious, i'm not arguing the abortion issue btw)

mauzo

Diapason wrote: »

I assume that when people do the in utero test for Down's that this is one of the options they're considering in the event of bad news? So Samantha Brick is hardly alone here (not that I have a clue who she is).

Downs syndrome can usually be picked up with an ultrasound. The parents would then have the option to go for an amnio if they so wish. Of course an amnio poses certain risks, but most parents would go ahead with it.

A lot do it for just the want of knowing, its rare that they would get an abortion. In my experience anyway

splashthecash

My brother has Down's Syndrome and I find this woman's comments absolutely disgusting and show her ignorance toward the problems individuals with this syndrome face on a regular basis.

She is trying to protray her intentions as honourable from the point of view that she would be requiring money from the government to help raise the child and that her family would have to help her out...give me a break.

The thought that a mother would abort her own child because of that is frightening....its not like we are talking about a severe physical\mental problem where the baby's quality of life would be zero - its down's syndrome for God sake - i know a young lad who has it, has done his leaving cert, went to college, wrote and published a book!! my brother enjoys everything i do, and yet just because it may take a little longer for the usual phases in life to be reached abortion is the answer?

I'm angry at her and sad for her at the same time

woof im a dog

'my husband and I have discussed in depth and at length whether we could keep a baby diagnosed with Down's Syndrome'

i wonder what else her and her husband talk about

xeiramnnax

I 100% agree with a couple's choice to end a pregnancy. Particularly unwanted pregnancies, or where parents are in no way capable of providing a child with a decent future.

However, to want a child badly enough to go through the ordeal of IVF to only go and abort a baby because it has DS I do not agree with. I know many people who live long/fulfilling lives with DS. It is not a black and white issue of course, but I think it is very selfish to abort a baby because it is not the "ideal" after longing for a baby for so long.

It's an awful decision to have to make, so i wouldn't judge.....but seeing as it's Samantha Prick...i'd have to say **** off.

Irish Guitarist

If you're going to have IVF treatment you should be prepared to accept whatever the outcome is. Otherwise you should either not have children or adopt a child.

Having said that though it sounds like adoption isn't for her. The fact that she would abort a child that isn't 'perfect' proves she just wants a 'designer baby' that fits into her view of how she would like her child to look.

I have no idea who Samantha Brick is by the way.

SEPT 23 1989

Its one of worst conversations a couple can have,horrendous stuff:(

Prettyfireworks

Seriously? Does nobody see anything wrong with that? Aborting a baby just because they may not be "perfect"?

I come from a family where out of 5 siblings 3 are disabled, two so severely that they need full time care but that doesn't mean we value their lives any less than our own.

Aborting a baby because they may have Down Syndrome is, in my opinion, the measure of how cowardly some people are. Yes the family would be presented with more challenges than if they had a child without the syndrome but it doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance at life.

Diapason

syndeyfife wrote: »

A lot do it for just the want of knowing, its rare that they would get an abortion. In my experience anyway

Thanks for that, I genuinely wondered.

giant_midget

This is a reall reall y touchy subject as almost everyone know's a person with a DS child , brother, uncle etc.

I have spoke with this before with my GF and MY opinion (you don't have to like it, that's why it's my opinion) is that i would strongly consider the abortion option in the case of a DS baby as looking after a child my whole life into my old age with so much difficulty is just not what i have planned. Sorry if it sounds selfish but i would not want a DS child.

mauzo

giant_midget wrote: »

This is a reall reall y touchy subject as almost everyone know's a person with a DS child , brother, uncle etc.

I have spoke with this before with my GF and MY opinion (you don't have to like it, that's why it's my opinion) is that i would strongly consider the abortion option in the case of a DS baby as looking after a child my whole life into my old age with so much difficulty is just not what i have planned. Sorry if it sounds selfish but i would not want a DS child.

I didnt think Id 'want' a child with cerebral palsy, but i have one now and i wouldnt change him for the world.

I dread to think what i would have done if i was given a choice. Im against abortion, always have been, but you dont know you'd cope knowing you have the option there.

g'em

Genuine question for the people who have (fairly bravely and amazingly) said that they would abort a Down's Syndrome baby:

Have you ever known or cared for or loved a person with Down's Syndrome? A more loving, kind, full-of-life person you could not wish to meet. They have an attitude and take on life that I really don't think non-Down's individuals can have. At one time I think I would have seen a Down's baby as being a burden, a life sentence and someone that I would tie me down until my later years. But with my hand on my heart I have never experienced anything but joy with a child or adult with Down's. They have all been wonderful.

The only 'burden' in having a child with Down's is the stigma attached to them.

In related news a Down Syndrome baby has just become a model for a Spanish swimwear company. She's only flipping gorgeous

http://aww.ninemsn.com.au/style/fashion/8504787/down-syndrome-baby-becomes-swimwear-model

Scioch

davet82 wrote: »

For who the baby or the parents?


(I'm just curious, i'm not arguing the abortion issue btw)

Personally I wouldnt want to have a kid that will likely have a bad experience in life. And I agree wholeheartedly with a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

blacklilly

xeiramnnax wrote: »

I 100% agree with a couple's choice to end a pregnancy. Particularly unwanted pregnancies, or where parents are in no way capable of providing a child with a decent future.

However, to want a child badly enough to go through the ordeal of IVF to only go and abort a baby because it has DS I do not agree with. I know many people who live long/fulfilling lives with DS. It is not a black and white issue of course, but I think it is very selfish to abort a baby because it is not the "ideal" after longing for a baby for so long.

You either agree with abortion or you don't, regardless of circumstances of conception.
People choose to abort the unborn for reasons such as cleft palets, downs, spina bifida, disfigurements etc.

By your logic you believe women who concived naturally have the right to abort but the women who went through IVF does not have the right to abort if it is found the unborn has downs.
That doesnt really make sense. You are attributing more rights to the women who was able to conceive naturally.

xeiramnnax

giant_midget wrote: »

i would strongly consider the abortion option in the case of a DS baby as looking after a child my whole life into my old age with so much difficulty is just not what i have planned.

Just a thought when you said minding your child into old age : Anything can happen in life, you could have a perfectly healthy child reared and living independently. What happens if that person ends up in an road accident requiring physical care for the rest of his/her life.

Not everything goes to plan in life. No reason to end a life because it needs more care than others.

starbelgrade

Prettyfireworks wrote: »

Aborting a baby because they may have Down Syndrome is, in my opinion, the measure of how cowardly some people are.

Just because you have disabled siblings doesn't give you the moral high ground.

If someone chooses not to see through a pregnancy - for whatever reason - that really is their choice & their choice alone.

While you may see that as the "easy way out", this route might well be entirely better for all concerned than one of attempting to raise a child that you feel you cannot do to the standard that a child deserves.

Abortion in any situation is always going to be a sensitive issue, but it pisses me off when I see the likes of you & others getting all high, mighty and judgemental about it.

Every case is different & every person has their own story to tell and lives to live - blanket statements such as yours are meaningless & utterly pointless.

syndeyfife

syndeyfife wrote: »

I didnt think Id 'want' a child with cerebral palsy, but i have one now and i wouldnt change him for the world.

I dread to think what i would have done if i was given a choice. Im against abortion, always have been, but you dont know you'd cope knowing you have the option there.

I don't think i would ever want to end a pregnancy just because the child would be disabled, having said that i can't feel justified in pushing my feelings on others.

mauzo

RVP 11 wrote: »

I don't think i would ever want to end a pregnancy just becuase the child would be disabled, having said that i can't feel justified in pushing my feelings on others.

Like i said Im against abortion, but if the option was freely available I may have considered it.

davet82

LordSmeg wrote: »

Personally I wouldnt want to have a kid that will likely have a bad experience in life. And I agree wholeheartedly with a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

But as far as i'm aware children/adults with DS are a little more oblivious to the hardships in life and are generally happier than us 'normal' people

(correct me if i'm wrong)

paul4green

In Denmark, people who know through amniocentesis that there baby has some form of aneuploidy, such as Down's Symdrome( 21), Edwards Syndrome(18) or Patau Syndrome(13) are encouraged to have an abortion.

Fair enough, yes Down's children can live relatively normal lives and have a life expectancy of ~40 , but babies with Edward's and Patau Syndrome are lucky to live past their first birthday. So, IMO aborting a baby because of a medical condition that has a drastic effect of standard of living i.e. The baby will never live a half decent life, is the correct decision.

Down's syndrome is a condition that many people have and continue to live with and have great lives, so I don't think it's acceptable to terminate the pregnancy because you don't want the hassle that comes with having a disabled child.

Siuin

I don't think anyone is in a position to judge someone else for having an abortion in such circumstances- after all, it's they who will have to live with the decision, not us

mauzo

davet82 wrote: »

But as far as i'm aware children/adults with DS are a little more oblivious to the hardships in life and are generally happier than us 'normal' people

(correct me if i'm wrong)

Youre dead right. A friend of mine used to work with people with down syndrome, in a summer camp. Id go and help out the odd time.

You'd be greeted with a big hug, all smiles. honestly i can say hand on heart they are they most beautiful, caring, loving people youll ever know.

Prettyfireworks

starbelgrade wrote: »

blanket statements such as yours are meaningless & utterly pointless.

What I said in my post was my opinion, which I am entitled to as is everybody else. I was merely sharing it along with the dozens of other posters here.

An no, it doesn't give me a moral high ground but I am speaking as somebody who has extensive experiences of growing up, helping and caring for my sisters with disabilities so I do think that entitles me to give my opinion on the matter of whether or not I think people should abort disabled babies.

My opinion may be different to yours but that does not make it any less valid.

syndeyfife

syndeyfife wrote: »

You'd be greeted with a big hug, all smiles. honestly i can say hand on heart they are they most beautiful, caring, loving people youll ever know.

They have the capacity to change other peoples lives for the better, which is a great thing, so the abortion subject isn't always the right thing to do.

krudler

paul4green wrote: »

In Denmark, people who know through amniocentesis that there baby has some form of aneuploidy, such as Down's Symdrome( 21), Edwards Syndrome(18) or Patau Syndrome(13) are encouraged to have an abortion.

Fair enough, yes Down's children can live relatively normal lives and have a life expectancy of ~40 , but babies with Edward's and Patau Syndrome are lucky to live past their first birthday. So, IMO aborting a baby because of a medical condition that has a drastic effect of standard of living i.e. The baby will never live a half decent life, is the correct decision.

Down's syndrome is a condition that many people have and continue to live with and have great lives, so I don't think it's acceptable to terminate the pregnancy because you don't want the hassle that comes with having a disabled child.

my uncle has Down's and just turned 50.

Dravokivich

I wonder what her husband thinks of this. Not the abortion, we know what he thinks of that. But of us knowing what he thinks of that. I wouldn't like a very personal discussion such as this being published anywhere.

mauzo

Dravokivich wrote: »

I wonder what her husband thinks of this. Not the abortion, we know what he thinks of that. But of us knowing what he thinks of that. I wouldn't like a very personal discussion such as this being published anywhere.

I dont think he gives a f*ck to be honest. He seems a bit strange too.

Course hes only delighted to have such radiant beauty on his arm :pac:

Guy:Incognito

splashthecash wrote: »

My brother has Down's Syndrome and I find this woman's comments absolutely disgusting and show her ignorance toward the problems individuals with this syndrome face on a regular basis.

She is trying to protray her intentions as honourable from the point of view that she would be requiring money from the government to help raise the child and that her family would have to help her out...give me a break.
its not like we are talking about a severe physical\mental problem where the baby's quality of life would be zero - its down's syndrome for God sake - i know a young lad who has it, has done his leaving cert, went to college, wrote and published a book!! my brother enjoys everything i do, and yet just because it may take a little longer for the usual phases in life to be reached abortion is the answer?

I'm angry at her and sad for her at the same time

Presumably your anti abortion altogether so? As already stated, if abortion is legal its up to the parents to decide if they want or dont want the baby, for whatever reasons they see fit.

This line seems to suggest that other reasons are ok? Who are you to decide whether someone leses reasons are good enough or not?

splashthecash wrote: »

The thought that a mother would abort her own child because of that is frightening.

...



Plus your being very one sided about the effects of downs too, the severity varies greatly.My cousins baby was born with downs 3 years ago. The child cant walk yet and the doctors think that might never change. There are a multitude of other medical problems the child has and as it stands may be lucky to make another few years as well as not progressing beyond being a young child (mentally). This child will not be sitting a leaving cert, going to college or publishing any books.

mattjack

syndeyfife wrote: »

I didnt think Id 'want' a child with cerebral palsy, but i have one now and i wouldnt change him for the world.

I dread to think what i would have done if i was given a choice. Im against abortion, always have been, but you dont know you'd cope knowing you have the option there.

I like your post,
I never thought that I'd ever become friends with a man with special needs, both intellectual and physical.
I gained something in life when I was introduced to him, I had the time of my life working with him for 18 months and I regularly drop in to see him where he works and nothing gives me greater pleasure to sit down with him and moan about life while stuffing our faces with cream cakes.

splashthecash

LordSmeg wrote: »

Personally I wouldnt want to have a kid that will likely have a bad experience in life. And I agree wholeheartedly with a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

In what way would they have a bad experience in life and who are we to make that decision for them?

mauzo

mattjack wrote: »

I like your post,
I never thought that I'd ever become friends with a man with special needs, both intellectual and physical.
I gained something in life when I was introduced to him, I had the time of my life working with him for 18 months and I regularly drop in to see him where he works and nothing gives me greater pleasure to sit down with him and moan about life while stuffing our faces with cream cakes.

That post made me smile. Im sure he values your friendship more than you know

starbelgrade

Prettyfireworks wrote: »

What I said in my post was my opinion, which I am entitled to as is everybody else. I was merely sharing it along with the dozens of other posters here.

An no, it doesn't give me a moral high ground but I am speaking as somebody who has extensive experiences of growing up, helping and caring for my sisters with disabilities so I do think that entitles me to give my opinion on the matter of whether or not I think people should abort disabled babies.

My opinion may be different to yours but that does not make it any less valid.

I would take it as a given that you have an opinion which you are entitled to.

However, I also take exception to you dismissing people in blanket terms as "cowards". I don't see that such a statement adds anything to the debate or achieves anything other than to make you look like you are taking the moral high ground, whether intentional or not.

xeiramnnax

blacklilly wrote: »

You either agree with abortion or you don't, regardless of circumstances of conception.
People choose to abort the unborn for reasons such as cleft palets, downs, spina bifida, disfigurements etc.

By your logic you believe women who concived naturally have the right to abort but the women who went through IVF does not have the right to abort if it is found the unborn has downs.
That doesnt really make sense. You are attributing more rights to the women who was able to conceive naturally.

I am not at all offering more rights to women who can conceieve naturally. I am talking about women ending pregnancies who do not want children. Women and Men who will not provide a safe environment for a child to grow up in, or who are no in a position provide and care for the child with love and support should have the right to end that pregnancy and wait for a time or another partner when they are willing to commit to the upbringing of a child.

If a woman has entered IVF treatment with (expense/desire etc.) the want to have a child, surely, to end that pregnancy because of an illness which is not a death sentence is very flippant. It would be one thing if the child and mother were at serious risk of death.

So, no, I do not believe women have more rights who conceive naturally. I am shocked that a woman who has gone through that process, could end her chances of having a child because it is not "perfect" or completely "healthy".

giant_midget

xeiramnnax wrote: »

Just a thought when you said minding your child into old age : Anything can happen in life, you could have a perfectly healthy child reared and living independently. What happens if that person ends up in an road accident requiring physical care for the rest of his/her life.

Not everything goes to plan in life. No reason to end a life because it needs more care than others.

Thanks. If you re-read my post you will see that it is my personal opinion and what i have discussed with my GF. My opinion of course will be liked or not liked. We are not taking about car crashes in this thread, it's about DS babies..

starbelgrade

xeiramnnax wrote: »

If a woman has entered IVF treatment with (expense/desire etc.) the want to have a child, surely, to end that pregnancy because of an illness which is not a death sentence is very flippant. It would be one thing if the child and mother were at serious risk of death.

So, no, I do not believe women have more rights who conceive naturally. I am shocked that a woman who has gone through that process, could end her chances of having a child because it is not "perfect" or completely "healthy".

So you're saying that the solution to this is to force people into carrying a foetus full term even if it's against their will?

Guy:Incognito

g'em wrote: »

Genuine question for the people who have (fairly bravely and amazingly) said that they would abort a Down's Syndrome baby:

Agreeing that someone should have a choice to do something is not saying you would do it too.

MagicMarker

I'm not seeing the problem here, can someone explain please?

xeiramnnax

giant_midget wrote: »

Thanks. We are not taking about car crashes in this thread, it's about DS babies..

That's a fair point, we are not talking about car crashes. When you said you don't see yourself looking after children when you grow old, I'm just merely stating that you could continue a pregnancy with a healthy child and end up with one who needs a lot more help than one with DS when you are in old age.