New secondary school Maynooth

Moonbeam

I see that the VEC won out in the end.
Which was my 2nd choice;)

Got this in an e-mail from John Mc Ginley .

"STAGG WELCOMES FAST TRACKING OF NEW SECONDARY SCHOOL FOR MAYNOOTH AND VEC PATRONAGE FOR NEW SECONDARY SCHOOL IN MAYNOOTH

Deputy Emmet Stagg has welcomed the announcement by the Minister for Education that New Secondary School at Maynooth is to be fast tracked and that the Patrons of the New Secondary School in Maynooth will be Co. Kildare VEC.

The New Secondary School for Maynooth which is to be built by Co. Kildare VEC will cater for 1,000 students, and is being brought forward by a year with completion now set for September 2014.

Deputy Stagg stated that he was particularly pleased that the Minister had awarded Patronage of the New Secondary School for Maynooth to Co. Kildare VEC. Co. Kildare VEC at present opperate successfully 9 Second Level Schools in Kildare with the existing Post Primary in Maynooth being one of their most successful schools. For over 40 years Maynooth Post Primary has operated in the Community and has a proven track record in its achievements of excellence on a national level in academics, sports, arts and science. VEC policy is to provide a multi-belief, non-selective, co-educational, child centred enrolment policy. The policy in the existing School  in Maynooth is one of working in partnership between Teachers, Students and Parents.
 
Deputy Stagg also welcomed the announcement by Minister Quinn that his Department had noted the high level of parental demand for secondary school instruction through the medium of Irish in Maynooth and that in light of this the Department will be making provision to cater for this alternative demand in the Medium Term.


In conclusion Deputy Stagg stated that he looked forward to work commencing on the schools with the attendant jobs they will create. "


   

angeldelight

Excellent result - I attended the Post-Primary myself and have to say it is an excellently run school. Their only real problem is overcrowding so this is an excellent decision IMO.

L1011

Wouldn't say "delighted" as it wasn't going to affect me most likely, but I'm pleased it went to the VEC and not the nuns or a Gaelscoil - seeing as the VEC already offer an Irish stream and there clearly isn't demand for 1000 pupils in Irish; it would have forced people to do it unwillingly.

Hellrazer

Typical Stagg/McGinley tripe-taking the credit for this as usual.Wouldnt even return emails I sent them about other issues I had with some of their decisions.When things are good he takes credit but when things go bad he ignores it.

Would have liked the Gaelscoil to get it as its a great school and all mine go there but Im probably a bit biased.

The Vec was also my second choice so its good news on that front.

granturismo

For me, its the best result.

n97 mini

Wow, only one secondary school in Maynooth. Didn't know that, but it would explain why so many kids from Maynooth are in school in Leixlip.

L1011

n97 mini wrote: »

Wow, only one secondary school in Maynooth. Didn't know that, but it would explain why so many kids from Maynooth are in school in Leixlip.

Only the one school serving Maynooth, Rathcoffey, Mulhussey & Kilcloon as well as kids from the gaelscoil in Kilcock who want to go to the Irish stream.

Previously you used to also get some from Celbridge where the parents didn't agree with single-sex education (as it has no mixed secondary) but there's been fewer to none of them recently due to how full it was anyway.

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

Only the one school serving Maynooth, Rathcoffey, Mulhussey & Kilcloon as well as kids from the gaelscoil in Kilcock who want to go to the Irish stream.p

Yeah, as I said I didn't know Maynooth had only one secondary school. Many of my daughter's school friends are from "out of town" (i.e. Maynooth, Lucan, Celbridge), but up till now I thought it was purely by choice.

MYOB wrote: »

Previously you used to also get some from Celbridge where the parents didn't agree with single-sex education (as it has no mixed secondary) but there's been fewer to none of them recently due to how full it was anyway.

I know people that went to Salesians and Wolstans, but the former, from talking to friends whose kids attend, doesn't have a great name. Having said that I would probably be in favour of single sex education, being a victim of it myself, as there are less distractions.

mout

in relation to demand for a secondary gaelscoil, there are about 400 primary pupils in the kilcock gaelschool. I don't know the numbers for the maynooth & celbridge gaelschools. I'd say there is a fair level of demand for a secondary gaelschool in the area.
It's interesting, as I understand it, that the gaelscoil was not allowed to bid for the new secondary school. If I was involved i'd be suggesting a trip to the courts.

L1011

mout wrote: »

in relation to demand for a secondary gaelscoil, there are about 400 primary pupils in the kilcock gaelschool. I don't know the numbers for the maynooth & celbridge gaelschools. I'd say there is a fair level of demand for a secondary gaelschool in the area.
It's interesting, as I understand it, that the gaelscoil was not allowed to bid for the new secondary school. If I was involved i'd be suggesting a trip to the courts.

A huge number of parents (and indeed the children, the concerns of the children never get listened to in this case) do not want their kids to go to Irish language secondary schools.

Maynooth VEC offers Irish-language secondary education and has done for about a decade. This shows what demand there is - and its nowhere near enough for a school on its own.

2011abc

n97 mini wrote: »

I know people that went to Salesians and Wolstans, but the former, from talking to friends whose kids attend, doesn't have a great name.

BOTH of these are top class schools .Salesians has an EXCELLENT reputation .You can tell pretty much everything you need to know about a school by driving past at opening or closing times and observing the way the students behave .I teach in another school far away and a colleague who was supervising exams at Salesians told me that the boys there were out and out GENTLEMEN -opening doors and speaking respectfully etc etc .

L1011

2011abc wrote: »

BOTH of these are top class schools .Salesians has an EXCELLENT reputation .You can tell pretty much everything you need to know about a school by driving past at opening or closing times and observing the way the students behave .I teach in another school far away and a colleague who was supervising exams at Salesians told me that the boys there were out and out GENTLEMEN -opening doors and speaking respectfully etc etc .

Locally, Salesians has an absolutely brutal reputation. Brothers forcing "respect" inside school hours in to kids does not equal academic performance or indeed how the same kids act outside school.

When the option was open to them you would get huge numbers going to Maynooth PP; similarly to Lucan and Leixlip to avoid Salesians.

2011abc

MYOB wrote: »

Locally, Salesians has an absolutely brutal reputation. Brothers forcing "respect" inside school hours in to kids does not equal academic performance or indeed how the same kids act outside school.

To be honest it sounds like a good starting point !Very , very few schools in Ireland have a reputation for 'brutal' ie harsh discipline .Loads do have a 'name' for being soft on discipline .Id imagine if the first type of schools were identified they'd be very well subscribed by parents!I know where Id prefer to work/live beside etc !I know an employee of a local public health centre and they say that the kids who come from the schools with a reputation / philosophy of being easy going on discipline are a nightmare to deal with ,drama queens ,spoilt rotten ,disrespectful and over indulged by parents .

L1011

2011abc wrote: »

To be honest it sounds like a good starting point !Very , very few schools in Ireland have a reputation for 'brutal' ie harsh discipline .Loads do have a 'name' for being soft on discipline .Id imagine if the first type of schools were identified they'd be very well subscribed by parents!I know where Id prefer to work/live beside etc !I know an employee of a local public health centre and they say that the kids who come from the schools with a reputation / philosophy of being easy going on discipline are a nightmare to deal with ,drama queens ,spoilt rotten ,disrespectful and over indulged by parents .

Its brutal reputation has nothing to do with "brutal discipline" from the teachers. More like brutal results, environment, etc. If you actually read my post properly, its quite clear that's what I'm saying.

Parents send their kids their as a last resort, in many cases because all the surrounding towns only accept kids from Celbridge if a previous family member has attended.

n97 mini

2011abc wrote: »

.I teach in another school far away and a colleague who was supervising exams at Salesians told me that the boys there were out and out GENTLEMEN -opening doors and speaking respectfully etc etc .

I don't mean to be the punctuation police, but your use of it for a teacher should be better. i.e. the space goes after the punctuation mark. Traditionally there would have been two spaces after a full stop, but now one suffices.

But back to the topic in hand, Salesians does not have a good name, and while I didn't want to express an opinion quite as strong as MYOB's, we do agree in principle on this. And aside from boards.ie, as I said, I know people who went to Salesians or their sons did/do and the picture isn't good.

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

A huge number of parents (and indeed the children, the concerns of the children never get listened to in this case) do not want their kids to go to Irish language secondary schools.

A fair amount do, and their numbers are increasing. I can tell you in terms of primary schools there are 3 in Leixlip, one them is a gaelscoil, and only one of them has a four year waiting list.

Scortho

As a former student in Salesians, I have to disagree with some of the posters.

Firstly no brothers ever hit a student. Ask any former student of the school and see what they say. Although the school is part of Salesians of Don Bosco no priest is involved in the day to day running of the school.

Secondly excellent academic results are achieved each year. When I left in 2010 18 of us got over 500 points in the leaving cert. Some of the highest results in the country have been achieved by past students of the school. Some of the best maths, Irish, economics and accounting teachers in the country currently teach in the school.

Finally the school has an excellent reputation when it comes to sporting achievements. Mark kenneally who will be running in the marathon in the London Olympics is a former student. The school has an excellent reputation for soccer having previously being senior all ireland champions and reaching the final on numerous other occasions. They have also represented Ireland in the schools World Cup.

While it mightn't have the same glamour as Clongowes Wood or Gonzaga (which I had the opportunity to attend) it is a really good school which does produce some excellent students.

tvnutz

I attended and taught in the Salesians, it is a very good school and having lived in Celbridge for the last 23 years I can say it does not have a "brutal" reputation.

2011abc

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't mean to be the punctuation police, but your use of it for a teacher should be better. i.e. the space goes after the punctuation mark. Traditionally there would have been two spaces after a full stop, but now one suffices.
.

If the number of spaces after a full stop bothers you , I hope you never visit the After Hours forum or you will have heart failure at the grammar there ! I pride myself on being a bit of a spelling and grammar Nazi , but I never dreamed I'd be pulled up on blank spaces !I never even give them a moment's thought except maybe when submitting articles to the press.

In my opinion based on the conduct of the students around and going to and from the school and what Ive heard , I think Salesians seems a grand school .There are schools not a million miles away that are NOT 'grand ' schools . There's a school where a non-teaching staff gentleman is on duty as some form of ' riot officer ' doing crowd control at the school gates and even the secondary school nearest me doesnt overly inspire me . I will probably send my daughters to Wolstans , another school the quality of whose students speaks for itself .I wouldn't necessarily be absorbed by 'league table' / number of kids who went to certain colleges etc .It's far more impressive to get struggling , disadvantaged kids to pass exams than churn out A's from B students .It seems Salesians can do both anyway if a previous poster/ex student is anything to go by .

L1011

2011abc wrote: »

but I never dreamed I'd be pulled up on blank spaces !I never even give them a moment's thought except maybe when submitting articles to the press.

Generally, anyone teaching English would pull their students up on it. If you don't teach English, its not really an issue. If you do...

This thread is the first time I've ever seen anyone say anything positive about Salesians in the entire time I've lived in North Kildare.

Moonbeam

n97 mini wrote: »

A fair amount do, and their numbers are increasing. I can tell you in terms of primary schools there are 3 in Leixlip, one them is a gaelscoil, and only one of them has a four year waiting list.

The one in Maynooth has a huge waiting list and you need to put kids names down when they are born to get a place or have an older sibling there.
There are more then enough students to warrant a Gael Colaiste in Maynooth as well as a higher capacity gaelscoil.

BuffyBot

Enough bickering about grammar - it has no relevance to this thread.

L1011

Moonbeam wrote: »

There are more then enough students to warrant a Gael Colaiste in Maynooth

Maynooth PP already offers a not particualrly popular Irish language JC stream and will offer an LC stream ("Aonad" I believe the term is) in the new premises as this was part of the tendering process. The JC stream has been there for probably a decade or more, so it provides a very clear picture.

Its quite clear that there isn't demand for a full gaelcholaiste just by looking at the demand for what already exists.

Awarding the second secondary to a gaelcholaiste would have forced people to do their JC/LC through Irish unwillingly as the existing PP is completely at capacity. Whereas for those who do want to do it through Irish the option will exist.

Moonbeam

If there was choice there would be less people in the current school.
I do think the best option across the board won out but there is still a demand for more capacity in the current gael scoil and more then enough students for a colaiste.
Having an Irish stream is at least something but no match for an A school.

L1011

Moonbeam wrote: »

If there was choice there would be less people in the current school.
I do think the best option across the board won out but there is still a demand for more capacity in the current gael scoil and more then enough students for a colaiste.
Having an Irish stream is at least something but no match for an A school.

Absolutely not enough people would move over to a Gaelcholaiste - as those that would are the ones currently in the Irish stream as it stands...

A Gaelcholaiste would have been disasterous for choice in the town; an Irish stream to LC provides choice for everyone.

If in the future the town is big enough for 3 or 4 schools, and there is still demand for Irish language secondary teaching, then it should be considered. But not with 2.

n97 mini

Moonbeam wrote: »

There are more then enough students to warrant a Gael Colaiste in Maynooth as well as a higher capacity gaelscoil.

I can't comment on Maynooth specifically, but I would imagine there is demand for one between Celbridge/Leixlip/Maynooth.

Orion

From another thread that this was off topic in.

Councillor wrote: »

ORION. "The minister consistently says that parents should be involved in decisions on schools and the parents are 100% opposed to the current proposal so we'll see. If he digs his heels in it's going to get loud and nasty. "

The parents already voted for a second VEC operated school???????

The parents voted for either a Loreto or VEC school - which was the only choice they were given. The VEC originally wanted a single 2 stream school but the Department told them they were not allowed apply for patronage on that basis:

http://www.maynoothcampus.kildarevec.ie/faqs.html wrote:

Q. Is there any flexibility with the two school model proposed by the Department of Education and Skills?
A. Prior to the application for Patronage the Department directed all applicants for Patronage that the schools shall be a two 1,000 pupil linear model. This is still the situation. Co. Kildare VEC is bound by the decision of the Department and will operate both schools within the guidelines provided by them.

The VEC are constrained by their own boss (Minister Quinn) from pursuing the option for a single school. However, the parents still want a 2 stream model and are actively campaigning for this. To say that the parents voted for a second school is disingenuous at best as you are well aware of this campaign and a senior colleague of yours has attended meetings of the PTA chairs where this campaign is being organised.

For background to others on the thread who aren't aware of the latest information. The VEC were awarded a second school. They hired Dr. Jerry Jeffers from NUIM to meet with the parents of all feeder schools and the PP itself. The unanimous opinion from these parents was that this proposal is madness in its entirety and they want a single school with junior and senior cycles as separate entities within it. The chairs of the PAs have been meeting and have met with Emmet Stagg and Bernard Durkan with a view to meeting the Minister. Last weekend Quinn agreed to meet at an as yet unspecified date - this came through Stagg and not directly from the Minister so excuse my scepticism that this is merely a stalling tactic. The PAs will be calling a public meeting soon to start getting louder in the campaign for common sense.

Councillor

The only groups that applied for the patronage of the second school were the Nuns and the VEC. The Department did not stop anyone else from applying. Parents are about two years too late in objecting now. Also for your information when the Community Council and myself called for the second school to be on the south side we got nothing but dogs abuse.

Orion

What do you mean parents are too late in objecting now? They were given a choice of 2 options - both involving separate schools on the same premises. Whether nobody else applied is irrelevant. The DES made it quite clear that they would not entertain any applications for patronage that involved having 1 single school. The parents went for the VEC as the better of the two options available but always had a consistent message that they wanted senior/junior cycle schools. It is not too late for this to change.

I wasn't on the CC when that happened so I can't comment on the dog's abuse. For your information, the site of the ET school on the south of the town was originally supposed to be the site for an educational campus including a new post primary school - that was Hanafin's plan at the time.

Considering that there is a consensus among parents (aka voters) in Maynooth, Kilcock and Kilcloon on having a single school model I'd have thought elected officials like yourself and Stagg would be more supportive of it.

Councillor

What do you mean by me not supporting parents? I was 100% behind the school on the south side. It was Minister Hannifan who gave approval for the Moyglare site. Please send me your e mail address and I will give you some background info

Orion

I mean now with the campaign to have a junior/senior cycle campus. Stagg does not seem supportive of it at all and you just say that it's too late to complain now ...

I know Hanafin gave approval for Moyglare but her original plan was to have an educational campus on the southside at the site of the ET school. There was even an option for an extra 30 acres in the lease if I recall correctly.

I'll pm you my email address - I'd like to read that background.

Councillor

Both Deputy Stagg and myself fully supported Tom Ashe's efforts to have a junior and senior cycle school at Moyglare Hall and we so advised the Department. Unfortunately they turned down the proposal saying that there was no other such model in Ireland and the the maximum number of students permissible per school was 1,000. The 2,000 pupil school in Enniscorty has not worked according to the Department. Both Deputy Stagg and Deputy Durkan have made representations to the Minisiter on the views of parents and they have asked the Minister to meet the 10 reps from the Parents Associations.

Orion

Councillor wrote: »

Unfortunately they turned down the proposal saying that there was no other such model in Ireland

Gerry Jeffers repeated that department response too - it's a null argument. It's never been done before is a pure civil service response. If the pen pushers in Washington had said that in 1969 man would never have landed on the moon.

The 2000 pupil school is a different model - it's a single school with 2000 pupils. What the parents are looking for here is two 1000 pupil schools - 1 to Junior Cert and 1 to Leaving Cert. There is no reason why that can't work and has been done in other countries successfully. Each school would have its own principal with an overall campus manager/governor/ whatever who presumably would be Johnny Nevin who does such a great job as it is.

While both Stagg and Durkan have made representations to the Minister, for Durkan this was in the form of tabling a written question to him and that's it. Stagg spoke directly with him but reluctantly by all accounts. He also told the chairs that only one of them could meet him - which they rejected. Neither of these counts as full support to my eyes.

10 reps confused me for a minute - I forgot about Rathcoffey

Councillor

Orion, you are incorrect. Deputys Stagg and Durkan met the Minister on the matter.

Orion

Councillor wrote: »

Orion, you are incorrect. Deputys Stagg and Durkan met the Minister on the matter.

Fair enough. I had wrong information then - I was told Durkan had tabled a question.

donspeekinglesh

Orion wrote: »

The 2000 pupil school is a different model - it's a single school with 2000 pupils. What the parents are looking for here is two 1000 pupil schools - 1 to Junior Cert and 1 to Leaving Cert. There is no reason why that can't work and has been done in other countries successfully. Each school would have its own principal

Similar has been done in Ireland too, albeit privately. The Institute of Education has completely separate 5th and 6th years. Different principles and different buildings.

Moonbeam

It is not really the same though,I went to the institute for 5th and 6th year and it is completely different to secondary school.

I think a 2000 pupil school sounds a bit crazy but a brilliant opportunity to prove what can be done.

Hopefully by the time we get that far,providing we manage to get a primary school place there will be a proper gael scoil.

Estman

I see the planning application for the school is in with Kildare County Council. You can see the details of the planning application at:

http://webgis.kildarecoco.ie/PlanningEnquiry/
and search for file number 13828

The Application seems to suggest that there are currently no traffic issues in the Town and that the proposed school will have next to no traffic impact. Hard to believe that a school campus of 2,000 students won't cause traffic problems! The application also doesn't commit to providing any bus services (build it and they will come approach) and doesn't address any of the roads issues along Moyglare Road, i.e. no real improvements to footpaths or cycle facilities.