cowboys

moonfish

Just venting here is it just me or is there a load of cowboy plumbers out there got my boiler serviced last week after they left my water stopped heating I thought that was a bit of a coincidence rang them back they came out and told me my 3 motorized valves were gone cost would be 120 each and god knows how much for labour my thermostat gone and wiring as well very big job could be over 400 like I can afford this .took a look.myself seen switch on motorised valve broken off got new valve in hardware store for 40 euro hey presto system is working ......

This is on top off last year had another chancer out for service he told me my system was plumbed wrong way could cause my tank to explode cost will be 400 if I want it done right I rang a second bloke who told me he was chancing his arm nothing wrong with my system.

moonfish

moonfish wrote: »

Just venting here is it just me or is there a load of cowboy plumbers out there got my boiler serviced last week after they left my water stopped heating I thought that was a bit of a coincidence rang them back they came out and told me my 3 motorized valves were gone cost would be 120 each and god knows how much for labour my thermostat gone and wiring as well very big job could be over 400 like I can afford this .took a look.myself seen switch on motorised valve broken off got new valve in hardware store for 40 euro hey presto system is working ......

This is on top off last year had another chancer out for service he told me my system was plumbed wrong way could cause my tank to explode cost will be 400 if I want it done right I rang a second bloke who told me he was chancing his arm nothing wrong with my system.

Sad but common, no cap on RGI's and no technical ability or experience required to be a RGI, this nonsense was planned and you are experiencing difficulties because of it, there are a lot of good RGI's out there but it is a lottery :mad:

moonfish

Ya there is good ones out there I've dealt with them but it is annoying to have some idiot talking complete crap god knows how many people are been conned

There is a installer removing copper pipework and cylinders, replacing it with plastic pipework and a combi, not because it's the best thing for his customer but because he can sell the copper, brutal:mad:.

moonfish

Thieves

K.Flyer

It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of pure Sh**e work being pawned off on unsuspecting people and the Bull that some people are being told by so called plumbers.
The amount of times I have been asked to price a replacement for someone who was told that their boiler has had it, only to find when I get there that a good service, maybe a new circulating pump, flush out and balance the system and everything is working fine again.
Like many here, we have many tales to tell, but I was wondering if a stickie thread could be started where we could post pictures of some of the Horrors we come across, no names or address' just pictures and a few lines for amusement.

DGOBS

I don't think a 'horrors' thread would achieve much, but I think a 'star rating' for installers and service engineers based on relevant (genuine) customer feedback could at least give the public a road map to decent RGIIs (and Oftec for oil)

Cerbera

There are good and bad people in every trade.

Also desperate people will stoop very low in search of money right now.

Ba5tards.

DGOBS

DGOBS wrote: »

I don't think a 'horrors' thread would achieve much, but I think a 'star rating' for installers and service engineers based on relevant (genuine) customer feedback could at least give the public a road map to decent RGIIs (and Oftec for oil)

We could use a online wall chart;)

DGOBS

Rate my plumber.ie?

Joey the lips

reputation says a lot. But with most people finding there favorite plumbers emergrating to oz or canada sometimes that small add in the free news paper is the only way to find a plumber and as plumbers will tell you. There not always plumbers there.

There is 2 things i do when getting an important job done in the house. For the purpose of explination imagine the company is called "Waterworks"

1. I call the company and ask for 3 references.Full name and address. This is why i dont mind giving a reference if i am happy with a job. Then i physically call to each reference. Be prepared. You might have caught the home owner at a wrong time.
I ask the home owner what work was done and were they happy. What aspect of there job were they not happy with. There is always one. So be careful. Its usually small stuff like carpets dirty. I finish by asking them how they found waterworks themselves and if they did not mind saying... How did they pay. Cash cheque or credit card. NEVER if you can help it pay for a job with cash. If the plumber insists on cash then have him sign the back of the cheque you made out to him. That way he is accepting the cash.

2. I then log onto the companies registration office or solocheck and check the company details. Here i should find company directors (Usually the plumber) and secratary. There registered addresses are also here. On cross referencing if there is any name on the references and the company website thats the same then i suspect a fraudalant reference. If the company has not itself registered in this manor then its most likely not trading according to standards. So be warned!

I have always givin a good trades person a reference or told them i would provide a reference to anyone on there behalf.

There is other things you can do. For example be away that john smith the plumber could give you his sister as a reference and she could be married to john jones and changed her name so they are related. This is why i always felt we should have a national register of references and if a reference was found to be provided by a relative then a fine imposed. If the plumbers are good then it would cost them little to register on the website because the references would come from good customers.


Anyway.... You catch my drift....


ps.the cro/solocheck report costs no more than 8 euro. Worth the money on a 2k and above job

Plombier

If the company has not itself registered in this manor then its most likely not trading according to standards.

If the plumber is a sole trader which most are you will not find any records in a company search.

The information you give here is totally wrong and I think you should rectify it.

Mutha

Sole traders are listed.

Joey the lips

Plombier wrote: »

If the plumber is a sole trader which most are you will not find any records in a company search.

The information you give here is totally wrong and I think you should rectify it.

Sole traders are listed. The information is not incorrect. I have been doing this years. Its a technique that was though to me so i am not the only one doing it.

Edit: Just checked again incase it changed. 3 plumbers i know are listed as "Individuals" which are sole traders.
Would you care to point out why all the information is totally wrong? I will put my hands up and apologiese if so.

Plombier

I am personally registered as a sole trader.

A search for my own name on the CRO returned this

Your Company search for "My Name" yielded no result.

A search for my own name on the solocheck returned this

Company Name Search Results
Sorry, your search returned no results.

Business Name Search Results
No business names matched your search query.

If I registered a business name it would show or if I had a limited company but
nothing as a sole trader.

As far as I know it would be illegal to put information regarding an individual on one of these sites.

A sole trader has the same rights as any PAYE worker in this regard.

Mutha

I'm a sole trader, I can find myself and others on both sites.

Plombier

With a limited company its accounts, directors names and lots of other information is available.

As a sole trader no information is available to search.

As a sole trader if you register a business name the name is available to search.(the only reason to register a name is to prevent someone else using it)no other information is available.

Joey the lips

Plombier wrote: »

With a limited company its accounts, directors names and lots of other information is available.

As a sole trader no information is available to search.

As a sole trader if you register a business name the name is available to search.(the only reason to register a name is to prevent someone else using it)no other information is available.

A sole traders name and address is available. You cannot trade as a sole trader if you were previously struck off. There for your company registered name would be displayed.

With due respect, You really are just playing with words. As i said there is enough information to check on what i said. I never mentioned company accounts etc.

I really cannot understand why you attacked the post and called it untrue. Its not the case.

K.Flyer

Something that I personally find myself being wary of are adverts for trades that only have a mobile ph number shown. I dont like taring all with the same brush but tbh I tend to be a bit more cautious when thats seems to be the only form of contact.

JohnnieK

I work from home so that's my registered address so the land line is also a contact number.
When I started out my sister in law suggested using both because it looks more honest and professional.

It was mentioned here that sole traders cant be traced.
The CRO have my home address as a registered address for the company so I'm quit traceable.

anthonyos

K.Flyer wrote: »

Something that I personally find myself being wary of are adverts for trades that only have a mobile ph number shown. I dont like taring all with the same brush but tbh I tend to be a bit more cautious when thats seems to be the only form of contact.

the old 085 numbers for some reason i dont like

Plombier

A sole traders name and address is available. You cannot trade as a sole trader if you were previously struck off.

As I said you are wrong regarding the Companies Registration Office(CRO) posting information about an individual(Sole Trader)

Joey what do you mean struck off ?

I work from home so that's my registered address so the land line is also a contact number.
When I started out my sister in law suggested using both because it looks more honest and professional.

It was mentioned here that sole traders cant be traced.
The CRO have my home address as a registered address for the company so I'm quit traceable.

As you point out yourself your you have a company registered, you are therefore not a sole trader.

Joey the lips

Plombier wrote: »

If the plumber is a sole trader which most are you will not find any records in a company search.

The information you give here is totally wrong and I think you should rectify it.

Plombier wrote: »

As I said you are wrong regarding the Companies Registration Office(CRO) posting information about an individual(Sole Trader)

Joey what do you mean struck off ?
.

As you can see thats not what you said and solocheck shows sole trader as i mentioned.

Plombier

You advised to people here

2. I then log onto the companies registration office or solocheck and check the company details. Here i should find company directors (Usually the plumber) and secratary. There registered addresses are also here. On cross referencing if there is any name on the references and the company website thats the same then i suspect a fraudalant reference. If the company has not itself registered in this manor then its most likely not trading according to standards. So be warned!

The only reason you will find a sole trader on these web sites is if they have a business name registered(ie; ABC Plumbing) a plumber as a sole trader(ie; John Smith) registered for vat,tax and as an employer will NOT be included on these web sites.

Your advise here will lead potential customers to believe the these plumbers are somehow fraudalant.

Joey the lips

Plombier wrote: »

You advised to people here


The only reason you will find a sole trader on these web sites is if they have a business name registered(ie; ABC Plumbing) a plumber as a sole trader(ie; John Smith) registered for vat,tax and as an employer will NOT be included on these web sites.

Your advise here will lead potential customers to believe the these plumbers are somehow fraudalant.

who are your defending here? I stand over what i said and there information is included once they register themselves as being self employed. I am out to protect joe public from cowboys I have never said i am out to attack someones name. PM me one name and contact detail for an RGI registered plumber that cannot be checked in this way.

The reason i need to see the plumber is RGI'D before you attack that is i need to be able to check he is actually registered as working for himself and not a firm. Which as you know can be checked.

Plombier

I stand over what i said and there information is included once they register themselves as being self employed

As you represents "Boards.ie" this is not acceptable!!

Joey the lips

Plombier wrote: »

As you represents "Boards.ie" this is not acceptable!!

Look. I am really tired of your ecletic way. PM me someone and i will happily pay the 8 euro to keep you quite. Now thats the last i have to say on the matter.

Plombier

Solocheck CRO
Eddie Lyons Edward Lyons No match No match
Patrick Moore Integrated Communications Ltd. No match No match
Michael Hayden Hayden & Murphy Solar Installation No match No match
Michael Nash Michael Nash No match No match
Joe Whelan Craigaaron Match Match
Thomas Maxwell M Flynn Heating & Plumbing Match Match
James Flynn M Flynn Heating & Plumbing Match Match
Larry Devereux Laurence Devereux No match No match
Michael Phelan Oil & Gas Boiler Services No match No match
John Kavanagh John Kavanagh Heating & Plumbing Match Match
David Fleming David Fleming No match No match
Gerard Kelly Gerard Kelly Plumbing&Heating No match No match
Johh O Hara John O Hara Electrical Plumbing & Heating Services No match No match
Michael Martin Mick Martin No match No match



This is a snapshot from the SEAI installers list all of these people must have a current Tax clearance certificate and be properly
trained to carry out their work they are registered to do, only 40% of these show up on solocheck or the CRO so
while you might be tired if someone follows the directions in your post 60% of the hard working honest people will be excluded
from getting any further work and be thought of as fraudulent as someone who is a moderator of this forum this is not acceptable.

slavetothegrind

have to back up plombier on this , i am not listed either despite being a registered sole trader and vat registered.

As for traceability it couldn't be simpler, it's all on my vat invoice, my vat number is also my rsi number as is the case for most sole traders so how could i hide?

If you purchase a service legitimately you have the security of insurance cover and backup

a nixer offers you neither.

Joey the lips

Plombier wrote: »

[ so
while you might be tired if someone follows the directions in your post 60% of the hard working honest people will be excluded
from getting any further work and be thought of as fraudulent as someone who is a moderator of this forum this is not acceptable.

Nothing fradulant in what i said nor misleading. I advised what i done to detere cowboys. It would be misrepresentation if i classed someone on your list as a cowboy and no fraud there. You need to choose your words. I agree however that i need to cross check as to why they are not appearing. Legally a tax complience cert only says you are that. Tax complient.

I need to cross check this information and if i does not apear then i need to establish why. Then if you are correct i can amend my mothods for checking but at the moment all my methods work fine.

If you feel that as a moderator i have mislead anyone or misrepresented any business you are free to contact hello@boards.ie to state your case but there has been no business mis-reprensentation on my part and finally while i welcome you attacking my post. I would like to draw your attention to

Whilst advice might be sought/given, posters should make every effort to verify advice expressed herein with an independent and knowledgeable third party. The advice and opinions expressed on this forum are not those of Boards.ie Ltd. and the management accepts no responsibility for what is written and posted here..

Which is what you would have signed up to when posting on the heating and plumbing forum and does not imply i have in any way infringed my role as moderator. Remember to attack the post and not the poster.

DGOBS

I have been following this thread with interest, as I always want to maximize my 'online profile' as a sole trader

Why would a sole trader not register a business name with the CRO (for €20) if there is a chance that some people may use this as a way to research a tradesperson before hiring their services?

I think the whole point Joey was making, it's a method that someone 'COULD' adopt to ensure a company is genuine and 'TRACEABLE' rather than a mobile number on a newspaper ad or flyer that may or may not be genuine. The fact that someone may not turn up using method does not detract from the method employed, as it only serves as an 'INDICATOR'

If 60% of people in the industry don't do it, well, IMHO more fool them!

anuprising

Specifically registration of a business name is required if:

an individual uses a business name which differs in any way from his/her true surname. It makes no difference whether the individuals first name or initials are added. So registration is required if, for example, Mr. John Murphy traded as Murphy Builders but NOT if he traded as Murphy or John Murphy);

http://www.cro.ie/ena/business-registration-business-name.aspx
from the cro website

if I register myself as self employed for vat and tax purposes I do so with revenue . nobody else . I am then legitimate .
if I want to trade under a different name ( business name ) or incorporate a company , then I must use cro ( company's registration office ) at this point I will then show up on the cro database but not before .

aditionally , if you search for a plumber on the rgii website you might not get him either , as only 3,300 are on the register and at present there is over 15000 registered plumbers .

so as good and indepth as joeys selection procedure is , it is flawed badly as it doesn't take into account a lot of factors

K.Flyer

I noticed a fairly fresh sticker on an old Prima from one of the companies that offer Special Offer Gas Boiler Servicing on one of the discount deal web sites.

I asked about the service, how much and long they took.
She said.. " He took the cover off, used my vacuum cleaner non it, said thats fine and stuck his sticker on it, it only took him about 15 minutes... was that not ok? she then asked. !!!!

35euro, 15mins tops, no receipt, no analysis reading, no paperwork of any sort.

DGOBS

Got deja vu when I read the last post! Did you not post that comment already elsewhere?

Joey the lips

I accept i was wrong with my assumption that every person in business could be checked. tbh I have never ran into the problem before. I need to look at the way i do things and see if i can do it better.

At this moment in time i cannot think of any other way to verify people as tbh references are not always trustworthy.

If i figure out how to do this i will let you know.

But really i was just showing a possible way to weed out cowboys and even it is not full proof.

On the subject of being a moderator with responsability. Yes maybe so. So i will be bending over the spire at some stage where 50 lashes can be given....

honestm8

Yes there are lots of dodgy plumbers about. i had some work done by the tile factory outlet. the plumber arrived days late and took days to do very little work. i also overheard him talking on the phone. he was talking about how he hasnt been paid and how the company didnt have money for materials needed to do the job. I was just have my bathroom replaced. a small job with and i paid 50% deposit!! I was so worried. 3 weeks later the job was finished. i was told it would be a 5 day job. tile factory outlet clodalkin AVOID!!!

jimjimt

All lists are flawed.

Take the SEAI list on #28.

I know of one person on that who is not a plumber electrician or other. 3 day Fetac course, tax clearance cert and you are on a SEAI installers list. So it gives the impression being on a SEAI list that you are an amazing certified genius and expert in your field because you are registered with the SEAI.

Even if that person was also on a CRO list what would it mean, nothing really still a 3 day wonder.

Also if you were to have a,
Rate my Plumber,
Rate my Oftec,
Rate my RGII,

the only way that would be fair is if you could have,

Rate my customer.

pache

Well Said!!