Irish Rail Mk3's, your photos

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There is between 10-15 Gen vans if my estimate is correct.

There were 13 Mk3 EGVs built. Good estimate.

Captain Chaos

end of the road wrote: »

how many generator vans are their? why weren't they kept for the enterprise? 3 is hardly good enough is it?

13 built and the best 4 were converted. 4 is all that is needed for the Enterprise as there are 4 DD DVTs. There can be 4 sets in theory and that was the plan in 1996 but that was revised to 3 sets and enough for a spare maintenance set short one standard coach.

goingnowhere

15 Gen vans, 13 Buffet

Captain Chaos

goingnowhere wrote: »

15 Gen vans,

I stand corrected. Right you are, 7601-7615.

Temp101

Is it the case now that due to the introduction of the EGV, platform length requires the removal of one standard (leaving four)? In which case there may be a full 7-piece set nominally spare?

In addition, are the EGV's selected for the DD sets only from the pool that was modified to work with Mk.3 Push-Pulls?

Jamie2k9

Is it the case now that due to the introduction of the EGV, platform length requires the removal of one standard (leaving four)? In which case there may be a full 7-piece set nominally spare?

In addition, are the EGV's selected for the DD sets only from the pool that was modified to work with Mk.3 Push-Pulls?

There has being no reduction in enterprise after EGV interduced. Still 7 coaches+EGV+Loco. There is an enterprise set of 7 lieing about but for spare usualy. A few years ago the enterprise was in sets of 8 coaches which ment the other set coudln't be used.

The Gen Vans selected have nothing to do with PP setup as it wasn't revelent to Mark 3 sets. Mark 3 PP sets are different to the current enterprise as they don't have a generator van but a smaller one under one of the carrages which limited the sets to 5 coaches but one had 6 and had no air con windows that could open instead etc. Any of the Gen Vans could of being used on Belfast line.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Mark 3 PP sets are different to the current enterprise as they don't have a generator van but a smaller one under one of the carrages which limited the sets to 5 coaches but one had 6 and had no air con windows that could open instead etc.

i thought all carriges in a pushpull set had their own underfloor generators and opening windows? definitely open to correction on this but was under the impression that was the case.

Jamie2k9

No just in the control car and thats why 6 was the max per set but most had a limit of 5 coaches. The reason being that its unable to power more than 6 coaches. The normal generator vans on other sets had two generators which allowed more carrages. All had windows that could be opened except for the Cafe/Bar that was interduced around late 2004.

Now does anyone know if the 5 PP sets will be kept, if wikipida is correct it says that they will be retained to operate Belfast line if a improved schedule was interduced. I can't see them being kept but if they were it would be good. Anyone know?

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No just in the control car and thats why 6 was the max per set but most had a limit of 5 coaches. The reason being that its unable to power more than 6 coaches. The normal generator vans on other sets had two generators which allowed more carrages. All had windows that could be opened except for the Cafe/Bar that was interduced around late 2004.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

ah okay

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

does anyone know if the 5 PP sets will be kept, if wikipida is correct it says that they will be retained to operate Belfast line if a improved schedule was interduced. I can't see them being kept but if they were it would be good. Anyone know?

i thought they were all scrapped all ready? or at least the control cars? if not i doubt they will be kept to be honest, after all doing so would make sense so forget about it.

end of the road

as i've said before many times the mark 3s should be doing the hourly cork and an hourly bellfast service but i suppose knowing irish rail had they gone down the refurbishment route the cost of such refurbishment would be over inflated deliberately to stop it from happening, their idea seems to be shiny new trains will solve all our problems, guess what lads, no it won't, should have got all the speed improvements done first, no excuse not to get the money during the good times, you didn't try hard enough, if needed be you should have got non-essential staff out blocking/delaying the motor way constructions until the government gave you the money, after all they don't want their precious motor ways being delayed any further as they need them for their state cars so they would have eventually given in and given the money, i know i'm wasting my time but i may as well get it off my chest.

Jamie2k9

as i've said before many times the mark 3s should be doing the hourly cork and an hourly bellfast service but i suppose knowing irish rail had they gone down the refurbishment route the cost of such refurbishment would be over inflated deliberately to stop it from happening, their idea seems to be shiny new trains will solve all our problems, guess what lads, no it won't, should have got all the speed improvements done first, no excuse not to get the money during the good times, you didn't try hard enough, if needed be you should have got non-essential staff out blocking/delaying the motor way constructions until the government gave you the money, after all they don't want their precious motor ways being delayed any further as they need them for their state cars so they would have eventually given in and given the money, i know i'm wasting my time but i may as well get it off my chest

There is the cost of refurbishment then there is the running cots have a generator running 24/7 and a loco. The fuel costs with the current prices would be massive and then there is the 201 wear on the tracks. The being unable to match capacity with demand would result in service cuts.

i thought they were all scrapped all ready? or at least the control cars? if not i doubt they will be kept to be honest, after all doing so would make sense so forget about it.

Not sure but I think there is some left in N Wall, Dubdalk and over at Heuston.

Captain Chaos

There is one, possibly 2 Mk3 DVTs left. One is at North Wall and the other if it still exists is in Inchicore. There are a good few of the 63xx series, which are the Mk3 PP standards at Dundalk mixed in the with the normal Mk3s and they are in very poor shape.

It would be good if a Mk3 PP set could be kept as a spare backup or for specials but it does not look good at this stage.

Judgement Day

It's a pity that they don't get a set for the New Ross preservation scheme, they would look well regauged and hauled behind a Bord na Mona diesel loco.

Cookie_Monster

demanufactured wrote: »

Can't be bought.....
Different braking system....aircon...
They are wrecks now from sitting getting damp and vandalised

considering there are 201s going spare and 071s no doubt due for the scrap heap soon enough they should be buying them in anticipation of compatible locos becoming available in the next few years.

They'd make millions from the hardcore locosexuals, mk3s behind an 071!! :eek::eek:!! what more could you want. :pac::pac:

DannyGrey

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

A set of 8 was moved today.

Where was it moved to, is there any photos of the mk3s at Waterford getting moved about in the last few days

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There is the cost of refurbishment then there is the running cots have a generator running 24/7 and a loco. The fuel costs with the current prices would be massive and then there is the 201 wear on the tracks. The being unable to match capacity with demand would result in service cuts.

they would only run cork and bellfast though (if i had my way) between both services being hourly their wouldn't be much left i'd say, a spair rake for each service, personally in my opinion when the carriges were built they should have went with power cars something like the class 43 but lighter if possible, the 201s are to heavy and can't go around all the network, had the mark 3s been paired up with power cars once the a-class were retired their would most likely have been and still be enough locos to go round as mass amounts of rail freight are unlikely to happen for the forseeable.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not sure but I think there is some left in N Wall, Dubdalk and over at Heuston.

i think the carriges at heuston were moved? the ones at dundalk are apparently so bad they will be scrapped on site but as usual i'm open to correction.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

i think the carriges at heuston were moved? the ones at dundalk are apparently so bad they will be scrapped on site but as usual i'm open to correction.

The ones in Heuston were moved to North Wall when the new batch of ICRs arrived.

Jamie2k9

Where was it moved to, is there any photos of the mk3s at Waterford getting moved about in the last few days

When I say moved they were moved the with of 3 tracks, nothing major. The sets in Waterford are begining to rust at this stage, being near the sea dosn't help.

The ones in Heuston were moved to North Wall when the new batch of ICRs arrived.

When you say Heuston do you mean the ones behind Plt 10?

Jamie2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

When you say Heuston do you mean the ones behind Plt 10?

Yes, they were in the old Guinness yard.

dowlingm

Have always thought the Mark 3 locations set up for destruction by corrosion. That said, is there anywhere inland was there space to store a decent number of carriages? Limerick Junction maybe? Mallow?

demanufactured

dowlingm wrote: »

Have always thought the Mark 3 locations set up for destruction by corrosion. That said, is there anywhere inland was there space to store a decent number of carriages? Limerick Junction maybe? Mallow?

Hammond lane.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Have always thought the Mark 3 locations set up for destruction by corrosion.

well you would be right, IE thought that by getting shiny new trains that all their problems would be solved without doing enough to improve speeds on all lines, now that their waking up to the fact they need to improve speeds its to late as the money isn't there.

dowlingm wrote: »

is there anywhere inland was there space to store a decent number of carriages? Limerick Junction maybe? Mallow?

i'm sure if they really wanted to keep them they would find a place.

LeftBlank

Karsini wrote: »

Yes, they were in the old Guinness yard.

There are still some in Inchicore.

Jamie2k9

IRN reports Waterford sets to be cut up next week.

LeftBlank

LeftBlank wrote: »

There are still some in Inchicore.

Indeed there are. One of the push-pull DVTs is there.

This list was posted on IRN a while back. Obviously anything listed as being in Heuston is now in North Wall.

Inchicore: 6101, 6307, 7125, 7133, 7136, 7138, 7139, 7145, 7151, 7161, 7162, 7164, 7409, 7609, 7610.

Heuston: 6105, 6402, 7106, 7114, 7116, 7122, 7123, 7130, 7137, 7142, 7147, 7158, 7166, 7169, 7406, 7412, 7413.

Dundalk: 6301, 6305, 6306, 6308, 6313, 7101, 7131, 7141, 7153, 7154, 7156, 7159, 7170, 7401, 7601, 7612.

Waterford: 7108, 7110, 7117, 7124, 7126, 7127, 7152, 7155, 7165, 7167, 7403, 7606, 7607, 7611.

North Wall: 7102, 7103, 7104, 7109, 7113, 7115, 7120, 7121, 7128, 7129, 7132, 7140, 7143, 7144, 7146, 7149, 7150, 7157, 7160, 7163, 7168, 7171, 7172, 7404, 7407, 7408, 7411, 7602, 7603, 7614, 7615.

The following have been scrapped: 6102, 6103, 6104, 6302, 6303, 6304, 6309, 6310, 6311, 6312, 6314, 6315, 6316, 6317, 6318, 6319, 7105, 7107, 7111, 7112, 7118, 7119, 7134, 7135, 7148, 7402, 7405, 7410 (total scrapped: 28).

Note: 7111 was scrapped in 1997, after being destroyed by fire at Inchicore Works in 1997.

Captain Chaos

So looking at that list there are 2 Mk3 DVTs left intact and 6 PP standards out of the 19 built. So there is still stock to make up 2 pushpull Mk3 sets of 4 coaches each if they could be saved.

I take it all the 62xx series Mk3As were scrapped and there are no survivors of the international set. I only found out the other day that the Internationals were PP compatible.

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos wrote: »

So looking at that list there are 2 Mk3 DVTs left intact and 6 PP standards out of the 19 built. So there is still stock to make up 2 pushpull Mk3 sets of 4 coaches each if they could be saved.

I take it all the 62xx series Mk3As were scrapped and there are no survivors of the international set. I only found out the other day that the Internationals were PP compatible.

Yep, they were push-pull compatible but it was never used. All of the 62xx coaches were sold, scrapped or blown up!

One of the coaches sat abandoned in Inchicore because they had intended to convert it to a DVT but it never happened. They just seemed to use it for livery tests - one side had the orange/black livery with a bit of the Enterprise livery. The other side still had the original BREL InterCity livery.

Since it's the Mark 3 photo thread I should post some more:

DSC00367.JPG
DSC00370.JPG
DSC00371.JPG
DSC00372.JPG

This is the coach I mentioned in my last post. It was quite hard to get a shot of the far side, would have liked to get a better one.

Captain Chaos

Your first photo looks like a very bad photoshop with the condition that Mk3 is in. A lick of paint will blend those 4 sections in together though.:D I've never seen a Mk3 with the underframe compartments removed before. It relates more closely with a Mk2F in that state.

Here's a photo of it in better days. From http://www.traintesting.com/International_train.htm

It was 99520 in its BR days.