quick DoE and road tax question

outstation42

Sorry I am looking for the answer also but I'm a bit green wrt vehicles.

If a registered camper is taxed until the 31/03/2012 does that mean that it had a DoE/ CRW in order to get taxed?

Thanks

cipro 55

outstation42 wrote: »

Sorry I am looking for the answer also but I'm a bit green wrt vehicles.

If a registered camper is taxed until the 31/03/2012 does that mean that it had a DoE/ CRW in order to get taxed?

Thanks

No, You don't need a test to grt it taxed.

outstation42

Thank you.

Irishgoatman

Anyway, if the vehicle was taxed in 2011, the DOE tests were not required at that time.
It only came into force from the 1st March 2012.

outstation42

OOOPS, I meant its taxed until 31/03/2013!

Irishgoatman

So, depending on its age, it needs a DoE.

outstation42

Yes, it does need one, its 11 years old. I think converted this year. I just wondered about the tax as I read in this forum elsewhere, previously, that DoE would be required to get taxed- but it does seem otherwise!

outstation42

Searching for this again and it seems I have asked before! Think this has changed now (apparently since March 2012), is this definitely applied and you need to have valid DOE to get motor tax?

piuswal

Just brought in a Hymer from NI, has road tax and their DOE (MOT) still valid but have to pay;

1. VRT, 13.3% on their estimate of the value, not what you paid for it if less(only EU country as far as I know that's effectively double taxed)

and

2. Must get DOE test done or else the tax, (which must be paid from the time I bought the vehicle) will be €952, not €105 or thereabouts.

outstation42

Could the tax issue possibly be specific to an import (ie 900something to pay tax for foreign vehicle not tested here)? Quite likely rules now changed but it would be great if we could tax vehicle now. Are only just out of tax and DOE but sadly it looks like DOE could take longer than anticipated.

piuswal

outstation42 wrote: »

Could the tax issue possibly be specific to an import (ie 900something to pay tax for foreign vehicle not tested here)? Quite likely rules now changed but it would be great if we could tax vehicle now. Are only just out of tax and DOE but sadly it looks like DOE could take longer than anticipated.

It seems the punitive tax relates to not having a DOE test done.
Once VAT is paid you then get your new licence plate, then get your DOE test and then get your tax cert.
When I applied to get the DOE I was told by the test centre that it would take Revenue 2 weeks to input my information into the relevant system and the test could not be done before that..
It was then that I attempted to tax the MH and found the charge was €952.
The tax office in Shannon said that the DOE had to be done before the low tax applied, I'm trying to clarify if it only applies to imports.
They also said that the first taxing would have to be done at my local office though I'm attempting to clarify that also.

Irishgoatman

piuswal wrote: »

Just brought in a Hymer from NI, has road tax and their DOE (MOT) still valid but have to pay;

1. VRT, 13.3% on their estimate of the value, not what you paid for it if less(only EU country as far as I know that's effectively double taxed)

and

2. Must get DOE test done or else the tax, (which must be paid from the time I bought the vehicle) will be €952, not €105 or thereabouts.

1. No we are not the only EU country that has an import tax of this type. I did look it up on line but can't remember the other countries.

2. If this vehicle is old enough to require a test surely you won't be able to tax it without one. As long as you have an appointment for the test, and are going to tax the 'van from the date you imported it, you should find the the gardai will turn a blind eye to you driving it to the test centre without tax or test papers. I checked this with them when I had a similar situation.

niloc1951

piuswal wrote: »

It seems the punitive tax relates to not having a DOE test done.
Once VAT is paid you then get your new licence plate, then get your DOE test and then get your tax cert.
When I applied to get the DOE I was told by the test centre that it would take Revenue 2 weeks to input my information into the relevant system and the test could not be done before that..
It was then that I attempted to tax the MH and found the charge was €952.
The tax office in Shannon said that the DOE had to be done before the low tax applied, I'm trying to clarify if it only applies to imports.
They also said that the first taxing would have to be done at my local office though I'm attempting to clarify that also.

Motor Caravan Road Tax is €102 per year, so what is the other €850 for

piuswal

niloc1951 wrote: »

Motor Caravan Road Tax is €102 per year, so what is the other €850 for

Not having a DOE I assume.

Anyone know the outcome of;

http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/last-lap-for-vrt-challenge-219275.html

and from Wikipedia

Other countries[edit]
Similar taxes are in place are the Netherlands which has the BPM (Belasting Personenauto’s Motorrijwielen) tax. This tax is 45% of the selling price of the car and gives a discount or punishment based on the CO2 emission. The tax is supposed to disappear by 2018, but the government has said it would introduce a similar tax but then solely based on CO2 emissions.

Finland also operates a system which charges a separate vehicle tax in addition to VAT. This system has also attracted controversy. This due to a heavy car tax. Finnish cars are the oldest in Europe and the death rate is highest in Scandinavia. The government also saturates the writing of car taxes. The system is illegal in the EU.[1]

Denmark has the heaviest vehicle tax in Europe (the second heaviest in the world after Singapore). The tax is 105% of the first €8000,- (ca.) and 180% of the rest. The tax is calculated after the VAT (25%), so it's also double taxing. [2]

Other European countries which have registration tax: Austria, Portugal, Greece, Norway (heavy, similar to Denmark) and Iceland.

SO, maybe we are not so much out on a limb after all but so much for harmony across the EU.

niloc1951

piuswal wrote: »

Not having a DOE I assume.

Anyone know the outcome of;

http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/last-lap-for-vrt-challenge-219275.html

...............................

The only penalty for not having a CRW (DOE) is if the vehicle is caught being used without one and this is a matter for the Gardai, not the Motor Tax Office. So the mystery of the €850 remains

As regards the VRT case, this challenge was lost. However it was not about the VRT being in existence, the challenge was about how it affected the profits of the second hand vehicle importer.
VRT is a tax we just got to suck up until the EU direct it be stopped, when that happens you can bet the boys in Kildare Street will replace it with a tax by another name just like they did when we were told to stop the Excise Duty on imports in 1992 which they replaced with the VRT
The real problem with VRT is the opaque and haphazard way it is calculated for motorhomes, being based on an unrealistic and inflated Open Market Selling Price and with no reference to the actual price paid for the vehicle.

reelkidmusic

niloc1951 wrote: »

The only penalty for not having a CRW (DOE) is if the vehicle is caught being used without one and this is a matter for the Gardai, not the Motor Tax Office. So the mystery of the €850

I'm assuming that the Motor Tax office are treating it as a private vehicle and charging tax based in engine size. Will be interesting to hear back from OP

piuswal

reelkidmusic wrote: »

I'm assuming that the Motor Tax office are treating it as a private vehicle and charging tax based in engine size. Will be interesting to hear back from OP

Yes, that is exactly what they are doing.
I need to have the DOE done before taxing and once that is done I then must go to my local tax office for the initial tax cert after that it can be done online.

piuswal

reelkidmusic wrote: »

I'm assuming that the Motor Tax office are treating it as a private vehicle and charging tax based in engine size. Will be interesting to hear back from OP

Yes, that is exactly what they are doing.
I need to have the DOE done before taxing and once that is done I then must go to my local tax office for the initial tax cert after that it can be done online.

piuswal

reelkidmusic wrote: »

I'm assuming that the Motor Tax office are treating it as a private vehicle and charging tax based in engine size. Will be interesting to hear back from OP

Yes, that is exactly what they are doing.
I need to have the DOE done before taxing and once that is done I then must go to my local tax office for the initial tax cert after that it can be done online.

Irishgoatman

So once it has a DOE/CRW as a camper, tax will only be 102 euro.

piuswal

Irishgoatman wrote: »

So once it has a DOE/CRW as a camper, tax will only be 102 euro.

That is my understanding. Hope to be able to confirm same in the coming weeks. DOE tester I contacted said there is no point iin booking a test for at least two weeks after paying VAT as it takes Revenue that long to upload the relevant information onto the system the DOE testers use.

Irishgoatman

piuswal wrote: »

That is my understanding. Hope to be able to confirm same in the coming weeks. DOE tester I contacted said there is no point iin booking a test for at least two weeks after paying VAT as it takes Revenue that long to upload the relevant information onto the system the DOE testers use.

I was assuming that you had already re-registered it, as you are supposed to do so with in a very short time from bringing it into the country.

niloc1951

piuswal wrote: »

Just brought in a Hymer from NI, has road tax and their DOE (MOT) still valid but have to pay;

1. VRT, 13.3% on their estimate of the value, not what you paid for it if less(only EU country as far as I know that's effectively double taxed)

and

2. Must get DOE test done or else the tax, (which must be paid from the time I bought the vehicle) will be €952, not €105 or thereabouts.

What you say above says that the vehicle is already registered and classified within The EU as a motor caravan and it has the documents to prove it, it therefore must be accepted here as such and there is no basis in law for anything different.
The road tax for motor caravans in this country is E102 and there is no basis for categorising the vehicle as anything else within the regulations governing out motor tax laws.
Whoever you are talking to at the motor tax office do not know their job, surprise! surprise!

piuswal

niloc1951 wrote: »

What you say above says that the vehicle is already registered and classified within The EU as a motor caravan and it has the documents to prove it, it therefore must be accepted here as such and there is no basis in law for anything different.
The road tax for motor caravans in this country is E102 and there is no basis for categorising the vehicle as anything else within the regulations governing out motor tax laws.
Whoever you are talking to at the motor tax office do not know their job, surprise! surprise!

Yes it was already classified as a motor caravan. Revenue have calculated the VRT and issued a receipt/ document to that effect and explicitly stating it's a motor caravan. So, if I now go to my local tax office the charge should be €102 irrespective of the DOE?

reelkidmusic

piuswal wrote: »

So, if I now go to my local tax office the charge should be €102 irrespective of the DOE?

Yes it should be €102. However, if they do not allow you to tax it, I think you would be justified in bringing it for DOE untaxed. I am open to correction on this but I think there is leeway for purpose of Doe to drive vehicle untaxed when travelling to and from the DOE centre.

Irishgoatman

reelkidmusic wrote: »

Yes it should be €102. However, if they do not allow you to tax it, I think you would be justified in bringing it for DOE untaxed. I am open to correction on this but I think there is leeway for purpose of Doe to drive vehicle untaxed when travelling to and from the DOE centre.

See my post #12.

Above all do make sure that you have an appointment for the DOE.

reelkidmusic

Irishgoatman wrote: »

See my post #12.

Above all do make sure that you have an appointment for the DOE.

Apologies, I had not seen that post!

Irishgoatman

reelkidmusic wrote: »

Apologies, I had not seen that post!

No problem, just as long as piuswal sees it.

piuswal

Thanks Irishgoatman.

Almost there.

Got DOE cert. Test centre about 3km away, luckily.

Realised the cert only covered a few months up to end of the NI cert in fact.
Test Centre said I'd have to sort it out with RSA.

RSA said that Test Centre had instructions as to how to input info to ensure I'd get a 2 year cert; it had been the other way it seems, and that they obviously did not follow the new instructions but that they would ensure I got the 2 year cert. I'd get the short one first and the 2 year some weeks later.

Used DOE receipt to get taxed; no problem, €102.

2 year cert arrived about 2 weeks ago.

Queried Revenue valuation, they had used my receipt and 2 valuations, much higher, which they got on the web.

No comparable MH on sale here so I got 3 others from different parts of the EU averaging out about 10% less than Revenue valuations..

Almost by return of post all documentation was returned with a curt note saying it was incomplete as I did not include a valuation from a dealer here..

I responded by pointing out that their online instructions said evidentiary documentation "may" not "must" include a dealer valuation and if they used overseas valuations I should be able to do the same.

This time I got an acknowledgement letter, almost by return of post, daying the Appeal was being considered.

I'm awaiting the response.

Irishgoatman

Hi piuswal, sounds good so far. Keep us informed plse.

piuswal

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Hi piuswal, sounds good so far. Keep us informed plse.

No problem bringing it for DOE untaxed.
Had to bring it for Revenue Valuation as very first step untaxed.
Used it a bit in fact as processes were in train.

Will let final outcome be known.

piuswal

piuswal wrote: »

Thanks Irishgoatman.

Almost there.

Got DOE cert. Test centre about 3km away, luckily.

Realised the cert only covered a few months up to end of the NI cert in fact.
Test Centre said I'd have to sort it out with RSA.

RSA said that Test Centre had instructions as to how to input info to ensure I'd get a 2 year cert; it had been the other way it seems, and that they obviously did not follow the new instructions but that they would ensure I got the 2 year cert. I'd get the short one first and the 2 year some weeks later.

Used DOE receipt to get taxed; no problem, €102.

2 year cert arrived about 2 weeks ago.

Queried Revenue valuation, they had used my receipt and 2 valuations, much higher, which they got on the web.

No comparable MH on sale here so I got 3 others from different parts of the EU averaging out about 10% less than Revenue valuations..

Almost by return of post all documentation was returned with a curt note saying it was incomplete as I did not include a valuation from a dealer here..

I responded by pointing out that their online instructions said evidentiary documentation "may" not "must" include a dealer valuation and if they used overseas valuations I should be able to do the same.

This time I got an acknowledgement letter, almost by return of post, daying the Appeal was being considered.

I'm awaiting the response.

October 6th response from Revenue finally arrived.

They have accepted my examples of the MHs value as opposed to theirs,

Getting a few hundred euro back.


Their initial response to my claim was that I should have enclosed a dealers valuation. It was this I queried on the basis that the appeals documentation process said that supporting evidence "may" include a dealers valuation.

Given that an "expert" advised me to accept Revenues valuation, based on their trawl for comparable vehicles I'm glad I searched that little bit deeper and challenged their interpretation of what was required as supporting evidence.