Criticism of female politicians.

lazygal

I've been browsing around the politics section. There's a current thread about Ivana Bacik and David Quinn debating same sex marriage. More than one most refers to the poster's dislike of Ivana Bacik. I'm kind of going on my own musings here but I've noticed a lot of comment on female politicians refers to their personality or appearance. I'm aware this goes for men too but i don't think they attract the same level of personally based criticism. Like David Cameron and his 'calm down dear' comment-would he have told a man to 'calm down dear'? And the Miss Piggy comments about Mary Mitchell O'Connor and tan comments about Mary Lou McDonald-would a male politician ever receive a comment on his appearance in the Dail or Seanad Chamber?

Fluorescence

Yeah, female politicians are judged on appearance far more harshly than their male counterparts. I think it may be a general trend though, not exclusive to politics.


Men aren't immune to it either. Cowen got a fair amount of flak for his weight, and Kenny gets plenty for his lack of personality and bent nose.

Duggys Housemate

The Mary Harney is fat jokes were ten a penny in AH for months. True that Cowen got it as well though. Almost as bad, but not quite.

Sonics2k

I'll admit that female Politicians tend to get a bit more of a running commentary based on their looks, but a lot of males get it too, from Cowen to Ming.

I basically ignore anyone's opinion in discussions who feel the need to resort to physical appearance comments, especially in Politics. It's a non-issue really.

As for the Mary Harney comments, I think a fair bit of that (even from myself) was going along with the irony that she was the Minister of Health and was clearly not *ahem* healthy in many ways.

FizzleSticks

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Stheno

FizzleSticks wrote: »

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Do you know in a sense I'd call bull**** on that and this entire thread.

Now my involvement in politics was at student level, and that's it, but key requirements to get your voice heard were good communication skills, belief in your views, the ability to engage, and to generate an audience/support base.

Supreme self belief was probably the most important even in student/baby politics.

How you looked regardless of gender was a side issue to be considered but not a key factor.

O'Reilly is from my constituency, and while I despise a Minister of Health who looks like a heart attack about to happen, if as has been proposed today, they break down the siloed structure of the HSE and bring it back under control of the Dept. of Heath and achieve the likes of their equivalent in the North which has been written about and commented on worldwide, I couldn't give a crap.

At least when he keels over, he'd then get decent care, unlike now.

I suspect it's the same for our rather larger population who vote these people in, yet it's the media, social media and third parties who make a big deal of it, like the posters in AH on about Harney and O'Reilly?

Do you seriously think the electorate think "I like that petite blond over that ugly hulk" and influence their votes on that basis?

And after politicians get in, I personally will vote on their record, how they have performed and how true to the ideals I voted for they were.

That however is compromised by party objectives unless they are an independant, so you have to consider that.

LittleBook

Sonics2k wrote: »

As for the Mary Harney comments, I think a fair bit of that (even from myself) was going along with the irony that she was the Minister of Health and was clearly not *ahem* healthy in many ways.

A criticism I've seen roundly levelled at Reilly over the past months too, particularly lately with his presentation of the FSAI report on calorie labelling to prevent obesity.

EricPraline

lazygal wrote: »

I've been browsing around the politics section. There's a current thread about Ivana Bacik and David Quinn debating same sex marriage. More than one most refers to the poster's dislike of Ivana Bacik. I'm kind of going on my own musings here but I've noticed a lot of comment on female politicians refers to their personality or appearance. I'm aware this goes for men too but i don't think they attract the same level of personally based criticism. Like David Cameron and his 'calm down dear' comment-would he have told a man to 'calm down dear'? And the Miss Piggy comments about Mary Mitchell O'Connor and tan comments about Mary Lou McDonald-would a male politician ever receive a comment on his appearance in the Dail or Seanad Chamber?

I agree that some female politicians do appear to be held to a higher standard, in terms of their appearance, relative to their male counterparts. Whatever about her policies, Mary Harney was a particular target of abuse in that regard. Whereas James O’Reilly, who is not necessarily a picture of health himself, rarely receives the same level of vitriol (for his appearance at least). In terms of personality, I'm not sure there is such a difference. Rightly or wrongly, male TDs such as Mick Wallace, Luke Ming, Bertie Ahern and so on, are often painted as caricatures in the media.

Regarding your example, I cannot remember ever reading or hearing any comments regarding Ivana Bacik's appearance. In the thread that you reference, the vast majority of objections seemed to be based on her policies (e.g. support for gender quotas, which is a different matter) or her political history. There are some comments regarding her debating style (and that of her opponent), but I think that's not unfair considering that public speaking is such a key element of her profession.

Ash.J.Williams

lazygal wrote: »

I've been browsing around the politics section. There's a current thread about Ivana Bacik and David Quinn debating same sex marriage. More than one most refers to the poster's dislike of Ivana Bacik. I'm kind of going on my own musings here but I've noticed a lot of comment on female politicians refers to their personality or appearance. I'm aware this goes for men too but i don't think they attract the same level of personally based criticism. Like David Cameron and his 'calm down dear' comment-would he have told a man to 'calm down dear'? And the Miss Piggy comments about Mary Mitchell O'Connor and tan comments about Mary Lou McDonald-would a male politician ever receive a comment on his appearance in the Dail or Seanad Chamber?

Mary Mitchell O'Connor drove her car down a stairs, hard to take seriously after that!

flyswatter

It's not exclusive to either sex. See comments about Mick Wallaces shaggy hair and pink airtex t shirt, Mings hemp jacket. Males are parodied and satirized more.

Sea Filly

Sonics2k wrote: »

As for the Mary Harney comments, I think a fair bit of that (even from myself) was going along with the irony that she was the Minister of Health and was clearly not *ahem* healthy in many ways.

True but James O'Reilly is very overweight too. Does he get as much flak?

Ah, nevermind:

LittleBook wrote: »

A criticism I've seen roundly levelled at Reilly over the past months too, paticularly lately with his presentation of the FSAI report on calorie labelling to prevent obesity.

Tabitha Tusdar

Fluorescence wrote: »

and Kenny gets plenty for his lack of personality and bent nose.

and lack of testicles when it comes to standing up to merkel

strobe

lazygal wrote: »

And the Miss Piggy comments about Mary Mitchell O'Connor

Weren't Luke 'Ming' Flanagan and Mick Wallace the two guys involved in that thing?
I remember at the time someone posting on here about "you never hear male politicians being criticised on their appearance... when Ming Flanagan and Mick Wallace's names were right there in the OP... the mind boggles.

PrincessLola

I prefer if people keep their criticisms of female polititions more gender neutral, i.e. calling them a c*nt or a b*tch isn't really on, those terms are so loaded. Just call them ar$eholes.

Tigger99

Im female and Im much more interested in the appearance of women than men and am more likely to comment on a females appearance. Do I hold female politicians in less high regard than male ones? Nope.

PrincessLola's comment is interesting. If I'm cursing about a female politician I call her a b*tch and if its a male one I'd tend to call him a p*ick or something similar. I don't think gender specific curses necessarily are loaded, but maybe Im just an equal opportunities curser.

Ellsbells

My only issue with any female politician is that aine Collins one who can't afford to live on €90k+ per annum. The absolute obnoxiousness of it

Dolbert

There's a good article about this phenomenon in the Guardian today:

I have written before about how female politicians can't win where their appearance is concerned. Too much grooming and they're dismissed as dolly birds, desperate, or both; too little, and they're damned as sexless munters, who've let themselves go.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/barbara-ellen-cecile-duflots-dress

Tropheus

As near as dammit, half the population of Ireland are women. Why aren't half our politicians women?

Galwayguy35

ksimpson wrote: »

As near as dammit, half the population of Ireland are women. Why aren't half our politicians women?

Probably 3 reasons:
They don't want to enter politics.
They didn't get nominated at the party conventions.
The public didn't vote for them.

Fenian Army

Most political party cumanns etc are dominated by men and certain families and always have been, thus women can't break in.

Sinn Féin would be an exception since there isnt these long standing political dynasties and candidates are being chosen to run in places were SF have not run for decades... ditto for other small or new parties.

Mary Lou in particular gets tons of comments about her appearance, I think its because they cant debate or address what she says so they take the easy option

Fluorescence

Fenian Army wrote: »

Most political party cumanns etc are dominated by men and certain families and always have been, thus women can't break in.

I don't think that's true. I just think more men are interested in politics than women are. Nothing so sinister as being denied entry.

Sonics2k

Fenian Army wrote: »

Most political party cumanns etc are dominated by men and certain families and always have been, thus women can't break in.

Sinn Féin would be an exception since there isnt these long standing political dynasties and candidates are being chosen to run in places were SF have not run for decades... ditto for other small or new parties.

Mary Lou in particular gets tons of comments about her appearance, I think its because they cant debate or address what she says so they take the easy option

There's also the simple issue that you have less women moving into a career in politics, just like with some of the sciences.

Blowfish

Fluorescence wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I just think more men are interested in politics than women are. Nothing so sinister as being denied entry.

Indeed. The obvious evidence for this is in the last election. The group which had the least representation of women was actually the independents, which by definition have no barrier to entry. Every single party is in fact encouraging more women to stand than would stand without party support.

It seems that for whatever reason rather than being prevented from doing so, there are simply less women putting themselves up for election than men. Why this is the case is definitely worth looking into.

shoos

Dolbert wrote: »

There's a good article about this phenomenon in the Guardian today:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/barbara-ellen-cecile-duflots-dress

I really love this line and think it could be equally applied to the Olympics:

It's the female politician's lot to be seen and not heard. Or, at least, seen (judged, objectified, mocked) much more than she is ever allowed to be heard.

Fenian Army

And why is that... because it has been the exclusive domain of men for so long.

But women are denied entry, many local branches of political parties are pretty much little fiefdoms, if anyone threatens to shake things up, especially a woman, they will be got rid of (generally excluded, ignored etc until they get the message - I've seen it happen.)

There's also the simple issue that you have less women moving into a career in politics, just like with some of the sciences.

Politics isnt a career like being a scientist, you dont go study it for xyz. Anyone who wants to be a politician for the sake of it, shouldn't be imo.

I think there are many women out there with political opinions, who want to make a difference. They seem to be shunted sideways into political pressure groups rather than active politics.

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

Most political party cumanns etc are dominated by men and certain families and always have been, thus women can't break in.

Sinn Féin would be an exception since there isnt these long standing political dynasties and candidates are being chosen to run in places were SF have not run for decades... ditto for other small or new parties.

Yet 2 of their 14 TDs are women, pretty much par for all the parties.

Wonder83

Men or women - both should be criticized. Central government will never be fair.

Fenian Army

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet 2 of their 14 TDs are women, pretty much par for all the parties.

Look at their candidates, MLAs etc many of them are women. You'll have around 30% of candidates in the locals being women come 2014.

The point I was making is that Sinn Fein, or parties like the ULA etc are running in places for the first time, or the first tome in a long time hence there isnt the same barrier to entry for women (or indeed any new people).