Giving up on diesel, going back to petrol

Stallingrad

I recently sold my diesel. While I really enjoyed the economy and torque I never warmed to the narrow power band, noise and inherent lack of refinement compared to petrol. My mileage is also around 12k a year so petrol was a viable option again. So I bought a b7 Passat 1.4TSi and it is a revelation. Ultra smooth, inaudible at idle, super quiet at cruise, quite swift when pushed, yet happy to amble around town at 2000 rpm and under all day. I'm getting 7.0l per 100 versus 6.6l per 100 in the diesel (Focus). No more concerns either about all the modern diesel related issues. Build quality and comfort are, to be expected, in a different league. So very happy to be back on petrol. The only problem now is to remember green pump, not black.

Fair play, the diesel boys will claim modern stuff is refined but in comparison to petrol engines diesels are anything but.

Anan1

Stallingrad wrote: »

The only problem now is to remember green pump, not black.

Just go for the clean, dry, not-stinking one.

MugMugs

Good call OP.

I however believe that if you can't hear your engine in traffic then you're doing it wrong though

Stallingrad

Glad to see I'm not alone!

deandean

Interesting thread OP, I feel there will be more people moving back to petrol for the type of reasons you mention.

I'm keeping an eye on the latest Ford Focus, it's a 3cyl 1.0L turbocharged petrol engine, the block apparently fits onto an A4 sheet of paper! 100 or 120HP, 55+mpg.


Review here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2012/0718/1224320295813.html

MuppetCheck

Diesel is only really viable at extremely high mileage in my opinion. A dmf or particle filter failing can wipe out any savings at a relatively moderate mileage. At 12k a year you are much better off in the petrol.

unkel

Stallingrad wrote: »

So I bought a b7 Passat 1.4TSi and it is a revelation. Ultra smooth, inaudible at idle, super quiet at cruise, quite swift when pushed, yet happy to amble around town at 2000 rpm and under all day. I'm getting 7.0l per 100 versus 6.6l per 100 in the diesel (Focus).

Had that engine in a rental Seat Leon on a recent holiday. Also had it a few years ago in a Touran MPV

Very impressive engine, very frugal for a petrol. And the 1.4 was easily powerful enough to keep both cars with 5 people and luggage in it going. The one thing I didn't like was the total lack of pull at very low revs. I'd say the 0-20km/h acceleration time is slower than a pushbike

unkel

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Diesel is only really viable at extremely high mileage in my opinion.

So who were the muppets who convinced 80% of Irish low miles drivers to buy diesel instead of petrol? :eek:

They must hate the environment. Oh wait.....

coolisin

Had an oul lad going nuts with his new diesel (well '11) in a petrol station lately, the regen light keeps coming up, he's only doing between 7-10,000km a year with lots of short hop's and wont drive it hard, as it'll kill the engine.

I suggested he should've got a petrol, but everyone is saying diesel to him.

Fairplay OP.

I personally dislike diesels for those exact reasons, naturally if i needed a diesel id get one.

Unless you've got the money for a nice BMW 535d/640d

dcr22B

Just done similar myself last week. Sold my 2005 Mondeo ST TDCi and bought a 2006 Nissan Almera 1.5 SXE.

Obviously miss the grunt of the Mondeo but it was bought to do daily 50 mile round trips to work for my wife but she only stayed in the job for 6 weeks after we bought it.

The main driver however were the constant big bills for drivetrain related items (will never go diesel again for that reason alone).

MugMugs

unkel wrote: »

So who were the muppets who convinced 80% of Irish low miles drivers to buy diesel instead of petrol? :eek:

They must hate the environment. Oh wait.....

Don't get you here.

Are the Diesels bad for the Environment on low mileage runs?

Big Nasty

Congrats OP!

BostonB

deandean wrote: »

Interesting thread OP, I feel there will be more people moving back to petrol for the type of reasons you mention.

I'm keeping an eye on the latest Ford Focus, it's a 3cyl 1.0L turbocharged petrol engine, the block apparently fits onto an A4 sheet of paper! 100 or 120HP, 55+mpg....

I seem to remember some comments on reviews where people weren't getting anything like the claimed fuel economy. I can't find them now.

recyclebin

Here is an article busting the diesel myth for the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175111/Great-diesel-myth-They-DONT-save-money-petrol-models-economical-makes-car.html

Anyone care to do the same for a few sample cars using irish prices and tax rates?

fletch

I have kinda done the same albeit I went from a simple diesel (no DPF but did have a DMF, 80k+ miles and still going strong on original clutch, over 30k of which was remapped) to a complicated petrol (supercharged, turbocharged, two clutches etc)

Pottler

I've 295000km up on my main car, a petrol 1.6 '04 Citroen, nothing bar servicing and belts. I have work gear in the boot and often drive it 5 up, it uses feck all more fuel than any of the diesels I've had, needs servicing less often and at less cost, apart from standard wear items on the front(drop links once, roll bar bushings once) and is nice to drive.

I'd probably rather a diesel car, but not at the cost of sliding into the sights of DPF, DMF etc etc. Also, just 1 high pressure pump failure with a diesel, and you can forget all about cost savings - you will limp out a sore puppy at the bill and savings will be a distant memory. I see the sore bills my mate hands out from his garage for major diesel engine farts on a daily basis and think I will stick with my "gas guzzler".

I've never, ever(and I've had loads) had a diesel car that met the claimed economy figures anyway, nor has any diesel I've had ever stunned me with their economy. A few have stunned me with just how quick they dispatch a tank of fuel though.

cadaliac

Pottler wrote: »

...........

I've never, ever(and I've had loads) had a diesel car that met the claimed economy figures anyway, nor has any diesel I've had ever stunned me with their economy. A few have stunned me with just how quick they dispatch a tank of fuel though.

I had a 406 HDi that did exactly what the manufacturer said it would do (and then some).
There is a market for Diesel cars, and there always will be.
New car owners that hold on to their cars for 1, 2 or 3 years. They pay less at the pump and usually get away without any nasty Diesel engine failures of the modern era.
I too however agree with the OP. When dealing in second hand cars over a certain age, petrol is the way to go. I have also migrated back to petrol 2 years ago. I just don't do the mileage any more.

stimpson

recyclebin wrote: »

Here is an article busting the diesel myth for the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175111/Great-diesel-myth-They-DONT-save-money-petrol-models-economical-makes-car.html

Anyone care to do the same for a few sample cars using irish prices and tax rates?

Diesel is more expensive than petrol on the UK. And VRT negates much of the difference in sticker price here.

If you save 3l/100 km then over 15000 km you save 450 litres. And diesel is 10c cheaper. And then there's road tax too. And better residuals.

I reckon if you had a large bill every 2 years in a diesel you'd probably still be ahead.

Veloce

Welcome back OP

ofcork

I think some of the new diesels are still noisy even though the technology meant they were supposed to be quieter,was beside a 12 astra coupe at the lights and could hear it loud and clear.

Leonard Hofstadter

ofcork wrote: »

I think some of the new diesels are still noisy even though the technology meant they were supposed to be quieter,was beside a 12 astra coupe at the lights and could hear it loud and clear.

They *are* still noisier than their petrol equivalents, despite what their fans say.

For me, modern diesels are just way too complex and too many of them are turning out to be potential ticking timebombs.

That said, petrol engines are getting increasingly complex so in the long term reliability of those is going to suffer as well.

I just prefer the sound of a petrol engine, plus the fact that they are much better for human health than diesel engines are.

MuppetCheck

The worst thing about diesels in my opinion isn't the narrow powerband (although some are almost petrol like at this stage) or the possible issues, its the sound when you turn the key on a cold morning. No amount of sound deadening can hide that.

MugMugs

MuppetCheck wrote: »

The worst thing about diesels in my opinion isn't the narrow powerband (although some are almost petrol like at this stage) or the possible issues, its the sound when you turn the key on a cold morning. No amount of sound deadening can hide that.

It's a country V8

MuppetCheck

Antares wrote: »

It's a country V8

Only if you have the country diesel to match;)

unkel

Antares wrote: »

Don't get you here.

Are the Diesels bad for the Environment on low mileage runs?

Diesel causes cancer

But the greens couldn't care less. They only care about bringing CO2 (a compeltely harmless gas) down. To save the planet. :rolleyes:

MugMugs

unkel wrote: »

Diesel causes cancer

But the greens couldn't care less. They only care about bringing CO2 down. To save the planet :rolleyes:

This came up over breakfast this morning.

To be fair, tuna fish out of a tin with blue wrapping on it gives you cancer at this stage but it's interesting nonetheless.

I also love the smell of the burnt diesel

unkel

Antares wrote: »

tuna fish out of a tin with blue wrapping on it gives you cancer

Did the World Health Organisation officially state that? Nah, didn't think so

shawnee

unkel wrote: »

So who were the muppets who convinced 80% of Irish low miles drivers to buy diesel instead of petrol? :eek:

They must hate the environment. Oh wait.....

The muppets were those who traded in decent petrol cars and spend 15 to 20 grand buying a diesel because of the lower tax bracket

shawnee

shawnee wrote: »

The muppets were those who traded in decent petrol cars and spend 15 to 20 grand buying a diesel because of the lower tax bracket

Don't forget these muppets....

captainspeed wrote: »

They *are* still noisier than their petrol equivalents, despite what their fans say.
...............

:pac:

volvoman480

Can't wait to get my 07 2litre crdi kia back from the garage complete with repaired DPF, new high pressure pump and new fuel rail. Should be back tomorrow so I can give them back the poxy, under powered, cramped, lifeless but extremely frugal 1.2 corsa they very kindly lent to me for the last few weeks.

There's diesel running in my veins, petrol is the p1ss of the devil!!!!!!

eaglebhoy

Jaysus lads I dunno, I'm not a fanboy of either but....

2 years ago I changed from a '00 1.6i Ford Focus Zetec petrol saloon to a '01 1.9Tdi Ford Focus Zetec hatchback and in all honesty both had 50 litre tanks and I can tell you I never got more than 400 miles on a full tank of petrol but I never get less than 450 miles on a full tank of diesel in fact I often break 500 miles depending on the type of drives I've had with my best milage on a full tank so far being 530, yes I am one of those guys who reset their trip counter after every fill up !

Also, as mentioned already, diesel is a nice bit cheaper than petrol here and always has been, unlike how it is in the UK, so therefore simple maths dictates that I am making savings given these facts and will do so until the fuel prices change rank in cost ! As for any cars running costs it's rather easy, keep them serviced regularly, it's not brain surgery ! :pac:

101sean

People look at me like I have two heads when I tell them I rebuilt the 3.5 V8 in my 101, most common question is "why don't you fit an oul daysul?" :mad:

Don't mind the clatter of my Td5 110 but I'd rather it was V8 as well, just couldn't afford to run it :rolleyes:

Diesels only sound good when they are V12 and pushing over 2500hp

eaglebhoy

eaglebhoy wrote: »

.................
2 years ago I changed .............. to a '01 1.9Tdi Ford Focus Zetec hatchback............................... it's not brain surgery ! :pac:

:pac:

Indeed

I have no doubt diesels are lighter on fuel, I've had three of them
It's the alleged refinement most folks in this thread have commented on

eringobragh

Welcome back to 'the dark side' OP

fletch

I agree that petrols are more refined at low speeds but on high speed trips I would much rather be in a diesel with its low revs and instantly available torque. I went from a 170bhp/400Nm diesel to a 180bhp/250Nm petrol and the diesel inspired so much more confidence when overtaking. It was great in the diesel being able to cruise behind a slower driver sitting bang in the torque band ready at any stage to overtake. If I try do that in the petrol the engine is screaming.
On a back road give me the petrol any day but the majority of our roads these days are boring motorways or N roads where overtaking ability is crucial

Blazer

recyclebin wrote: »

Here is an article busting the diesel myth for the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175111/Great-diesel-myth-They-DONT-save-money-petrol-models-economical-makes-car.html

Anyone care to do the same for a few sample cars using irish prices and tax rates?

seeing that it's about 6cent cheaper for diesel here than petrol it's a totally different ballgame.

eaglebhoy

RoverJames wrote: »

:pac:

Indeed

I have no doubt diesels are lighter on fuel, I've had three of them
It's the alleged refinement most folks in this thread have commented on

Yes but do use your quote of my post in proper context please, it should've been obvious that my 'it's not brain surgery' comment refers to the sentence which it ends ! Which is about keeping ones car serviced helps keep any running costs, outside of refueling, down not about the choice between either fuel !

Also there are plenty of posts here discussing the value for money and savings comparison not just the 'refinement' issue !

martyc5674

Is maith liom Petrol, Ach... Bear liom Daysul....:D:D:D

.... I was zoning in on the 1.9 bit

Voodoomelon

I'm often sitting in traffic and hear horrible noises and suddenly think "shít, whats wrong with the car" and look at the dash for lights/mirrors for smoke etc.

Then look infront of me or behind me to spot the Avensis/Golf/5 Series/Passat with the sack of spanners under the bonnet and breath a sigh of relief.

MugMugs

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'm often sitting in traffic and hear horrible noises and suddenly think "shít, whats wrong with the car" and look at the dash for lights/mirrors for smoke etc.

Then look infront of me or behind me to spot the Avensis/Golf/5 Series/Passat with the sack of spanners under the bonnet and breath a sigh of relief.

That's me. And I'll smoke you rightly next time...... literally !

eaglebhoy

eaglebhoy wrote: »

..................
2 years ago I changed from a '00 1.6i Ford Focus Zetec petrol saloon to a '01 1.9Tdi Ford Focus Zetec hatchback and in all honesty both had 50 litre tanks and I can tell you I never got more than 400 miles on a full tank of petrol but I never get less than 450 miles on a full tank of diesel in fact I often break 500 miles depending on the type of drives I've had with my best milage on a full tank so far being 530, yes I am one of those guys who reset their trip counter after every fill up ! .................

eaglebhoy wrote: »

Yes but do use your quote of my post in proper context please, it should've been obvious that my 'it's not brain surgery' comment refers to the sentence which it ends ! Which is about keeping ones car serviced helps keep any running costs, outside of refueling, down not about the choice between either fuel !

Also there are plenty of posts here discussing the value for money and savings comparison not just the 'refinement' issue !

Speaking of value for money, how much did it cost to change ?

BostonB

volvoman480 wrote: »

...complete with repaired DPF, new high pressure pump and new fuel rail. ...

I think they are getting you to buy a car in installments....

Bpmull

I suppose really it is all about preference some people just hate diesel cars and some hate petrols. But if you are going purely on cost generally diesel are way cheaper our 1.6 tdi octavia is doing 54mpg or 5.3l per 100 km around town. And that's actually calculating the litres used to kilometres from full tank not just reading it off the trip. There is no petrol would do this around town. However if buying and older car pre 2000 then petrol is the best option

eaglebhoy

RoverJames wrote: »

.... I was zoning in on the 1.9 bit

Yeah finances dictated the year hence the large engine, it was my first diesel but by the experience I've had so far I'd stick with diesel if I find myself in a position to buy a newer car again and a smaller engine along with it ideally !

Have to say though I do keep an interested eye on the developments in electric car and hybrid car technology, would prefer to be good for health and the environment too with my choice if feasible at the time !

My hope is these technologies will go the way of the mobile phone eventually and that they'll eventually be able to get the mileage on these type of engines like how battery life of mobile phones eventually became worthwhile unlike how the earliest phones/bricks were

JerCotter7

fletch wrote: »

I agree that diesels are more refined at low speeds but on high speed trips I would much rather be in a diesel with its low revs and instantly available torque. I went from a 170bhp/400Nm diesel to a 180bhp/250Nm petrol and the diesel inspired so much more confidence when overtaking. It was great in the diesel being able to cruise behind a slower driver sitting bang in the torque band ready at any stage to overtake. If I try do that in the petrol the engine is screaming.
On a back road give me the petrol any day but the majority of our roads these days are boring motorways or N roads where overtaking ability is crucial

Yeah I got the opposite impression from diesels. They seem like they are about to take off but then you really don't get anywhere fast. Give me a petrol for overtaking any day. I just found diesel to feel like it was going fast but really it wasn't. Petrol is the other way around IMO. And it's worse when your not used to it and find yourself caught overtaking outside the powerband.

eaglebhoy

RoverJames wrote: »

Speaking of value for money, how much did it cost to change ?

Oh strangely I got more for the petrol than I then paid for the diesel though a closer look explains why, I was only the 2nd owner of the petrol so it was in great nick and had all elecs and a multichange CD player and I only had 96,000 miles on it.

I am the 4th owner of the diesel it had 182,000 miles at the time but a genuine FSH and it's a little lower spec also !

MuppetCheck

Diesel for everyday driving are more usable and unless you are racing everywhere are a nicer drive. They do often require more use of the gears though but once you get used to it its fine.

But more spirited driving means a petrol is more enjoyable once you reach the limits of the diesels powerband. I would like to try out a 123d or 535d properly though to see of that would change my opinion.

I'd want to have been saving lots more than 20% of a fuel bill to have switched tbh. What miles are on the diesel Focus now?

maidhc

Went from a 1.8TDCi Focus to a 1.8VVti Celica. Same size tanks, generally got 450 to the light in the focus (44ish mpg), and 360-400 on the celica (avg 36mpg). I regularly drive my mothers 1.6 Focus and this does anout 52 mpg.

The petrol is far quicker. It doesn't have the torque, but is has a linear power delivery where more revs=more power and thus is easier to make swift progress with.

There is no reason to buy diesel except for economy imo.