Penalty points.

bridan90

My husband has just had 4 penalty points placed on his licence over a two month period. He now has six points. He drives for a living and spends much of his time on the road. He says it has become impossible for him to do his job because he is now paranoid and constantly watching his speed and looking out for the vans. He has been losing sleep over this and is very stressed out about it. He only has 6 points as of today but is really worried as if he ends up with 12 points he will lose his job. He is usually a very safe driver and the penalty points he has accumulated so far have been down to small increases in speed. He has slowed down so much that it is taking him longer and longer to get to jobs that he has a time limit for.

Can anyone tell us what the situation would be if he were to accumulate the 12 points? Would the courts show any mercy at all for a man who up until recently has had an extremely clean driving license. He has never been involved in an accident and he has been driving almost 40 years. We are at our wits end because if he loses his license it could push him over the edge.

Henry Ford III

12 points means a mandatory period off the road. No exceptions.

Lando Griffin

I have never got a penalty point since the system was introduced, if he can take the foot off the gas for a while he might sleep better.

MrDerp

I freely admit to speeding, and I have points myself, so don't take this the wrong way, I'm not being sanctimonious.

If your husband drives for a living he needs to slow down. It's far more important that he keeps to the limits and rules of the road than casual drivers, as he covers more miles so the law of averages says he'll get caught more often.

He needs to space his appointments further apart if he can't reliably get between appointments. Unfortunately this may mean he has to extend his working hours into his own time. If an employer is giving unrealistic expectations, he needs to say "I'm no good to you with a disqualification"

hondasam

If he gets 12 points he loses his license end off.
There is no need for him to speed constantly. He might need to change his attitude to speeding.

Kristopherus

Lando Griffin wrote: »

I have never got a penalty point since the system was introduced, if he can take the foot off the gas for a while he might sleep better.

+1. If he has been driving for 40 yrs, he's nearly 60years of age. Time he got a bag of sense tbh:(. Oh, and as Henry Ford III pointed out , 12 point and you're off the road, no ifs, buts, nothing will save you.

Anan1

Is he genuinely incapable of observing the speed limit? If so then lessons will help. Give this crowd a call, they have branches in Ireland: http://www.iam.org.uk/

markpb

Would cruise control help? I find it a bit help when observing 80/60 limits approaching urban areas (which is where I see most of the speed camera vans).

biko

Get him to use a GPS with the speeding alarm set to ON.
This will beep every time he speeds.

mitosis

He needs to slow down. Doing a bit over the limit makes negligible difference to travel time anyway - unless he drives very long distances without stopping. He won't want a suspension for a wee bit over the limit often.

hondasam

I have penalty points. I use cruise control for the go safe areas, it's handy until you have passed the zone. If you are travelling all the time you know where they are located.

Hay_man

bridan90 wrote: »

My husband has just had 4 penalty points placed on his licence over a two month period. He now has six points. He drives for a living and spends much of his time on the road. He says it has become impossible for him to do his job because he is now paranoid and constantly watching his speed and looking out for the vans. He has been losing sleep over this and is very stressed out about it. He only has 6 points as of today but is really worried as if he ends up with 12 points he will lose his job. He is usually a very safe driver and the penalty points he has accumulated so far have been down to small increases in speed. He has slowed down so much that it is taking him longer and longer to get to jobs that he has a time limit for.

Can anyone tell us what the situation would be if he were to accumulate the 12 points? Would the courts show any mercy at all for a man who up until recently has had an extremely clean driving license. He has never been involved in an accident and he has been driving almost 40 years. We are at our wits end because if he loses his license it could push him over the edge.

As a person with PP's I can completely see where your husband is coming from,

If a person breaks the speed limit by say 5 or 6% above the limit, give him a 80 euro fine, and no points, anything above 5% of the speed limit then slap on the points + fine,

A person travelling 2 or 3 km above a speed limit having PP's on their licence for 3 years is a joke IMO (apart from built up areas)

I find the current system very fustrating as a motorist:mad:

hondasam

Hay_man wrote: »

As a person with PP's I can completely see where your husband is coming from,

If a person breaks the speed limit by say 5 or 6% above the limit, give him a 80 euro fine, and no points, anything above 5% of the speed limit then slap on the points + fine,

A person travelling 2 or 3 km above a speed limit having PP's on their licence for 3 years is a joke IMO (apart from built up areas)

I find the current system very fustrating as a motorist:mad:

You don't get done for 2 or 3 km over the limit.

daveyboy_1ie

biko wrote: »

Get him to use a GPS with the speeding alarm set to ON.
This will beep every time he speeds.

This. If he needs help driving, and he clearly does then this is the way to go.

cojomo2

Henry Ford III wrote: »

12 points means a mandatory period off the road. No exceptions.

You sure? This has not always been the case. I worked as a rep on the road and it's so easy to build up points, I had 10 points over 2 yrs..I now don't drive for a living and haven't received any in around 5 years...

Anyway, there was another rep I knew, and only a judge can take your licence..so if your on 10 points and you get done again, it's off to court, and exceptions have been made for people(him) that would be out of a job and on the dole if their licence was to be revoked ..I can't remember if it's a case that the judge doesn't give you the final 2 points or that you do infact get them but your licence isn't revoked..

CreepingDeath

bridan90 wrote: »

My husband has just had 4 penalty points placed on his licence over a two month period. He now has six points. He drives for a living and spends much of his time on the road. He says it has become impossible for him to do his job because he is now paranoid and constantly watching his speed and looking out for the vans.

How can it be impossible for him to do his job?
Is he a rally driver ?

If he's constantly under pressure to meet delivery schedules, then he needs to go back to his boss/HR/trade union rep and say he can't complete his deliveries in time due to increasing traffic delays etc.

But this is exactly why penalty points were brought in, to change drivers attitudes.
Maybe give him a calming classical music CD to listen to daily to relax.

MugMugs

biko wrote: »

Get him to use a GPS with the speeding alarm set to ON.
This will beep every time he speeds.

Good idea actually. Or as already said, he'd sleep better with a lighter foot.

bridan90

I want to make this very clear. I am not in any way condoning speeding or dangerous driving of any kind. However, as I said previously my husband has always been a very safe driver. Speed limit signs can be missed. For instance when I am in the car with him I constantly warn him even before he comes anywhere near the sign. The last two penalty points allude to an occasion when I was actually in the car. He was doing 61 kms in an area we know to be 60 kms, I told him to slow down which he did. The notice claims that he was doing 61 in a 50 km limit. I certainly did not see that sign and I am TOTALLY preoccupied with the signs. However I did see the speed van sitting just after the 60km sign.

Speeding is of course a major problem on Irish roads and the cameras do reduce the number of serious injuries and deaths. However I do think there has to be better visibility of speed limit signs and better warning systems in place. My husband would very seldom go over 80 in a 100 km speed limit and up until now in all cases the speeds that he has been charged with have not been in anyway excessive.

The punishment should fit the crime. If someone drives at 70 in a 50 km limit then that person deserves to have the penalty points and the fine. I have seen people tail gaiting, dangerous overtaking, children unrestrained in the front seat of a car and people who are doing well over 100 in built up areas. In all these cases if someone is caught (which is highly unlikely) they can expect the same number of penalty points as someone who has went over the limit by 5 or 10 kms. That is unfair! If some one is a few kms over then surely the fine is enough? People should also be allowed to defend themselves. Often these notices do not arrive till over a month after the alleged offence has taken place and you will not necessarily remember where you were on that day or at that time.

The other point I wish to make is about the manufacture of cars that are essentially built for speed. Surely this is something that should be addressed?

coolisin

The worst part of driving around at the moment is trying to drive at or around the speed limit, you have people intimidating you no end, and im not talking about going 50kph according to the speedo, 50kph is approx 54kph on my van.

Last night i got beeped at because i stopped at a red light?! The guy then overtook me running the red light, all because we had gotten stopped at a sequence of red lights. The same white van man was tailgating me and "warming his tyres" I don't have points and I'm constantly under tight delivery times, but i try stick to the speed limit. I loose my license i will loose my job.

Tell your bloke to just stick to the limit and flip everyone else behind him.
But a satnav on speed alarm is a great idea.

Thatnastyboy

bridan90 wrote: »

The other point I wish to make is about the manufacture of cars that are essentially built for speed. Surely this is something that should be addressed?

Re the rest: I dont know, maybe he needs to pay more attention, by the sounds of it he's too preoccupied to notice speed limit signs, what else is he missing? the small child about to fall off the footpath in front of him? the cyclist on his left?


Now the bold part:

In what sense?

Addressed how?

Aren't all cars essentially built for speed?

Hay_man

hondasam wrote: »

You don't get done for 2 or 3 km over the limit.

What about the GATSO vans ??

bridan90

"The worst part of driving around at the moment is trying to drive at or around the speed limit, you have people intimidating you no end, and im not talking about going 50kph according to the speedo, 50kph is approx 54kph on my van."

This is exactly what I am referring to. My husband regularly has people tail gaiting and pushing him off the road in order to over take. This is the type of thing that causes most accidents.

Manufacturers could reduce the speed at which a car can drive by placing some kind of immobilizing device in the car. The only vehicles that should be capable of driving over 100kms per hour are emergency vehicles.

bridan90

bridan90 wrote: »

However, as I said previously my husband has always been a very safe driver.
For instance when I am in the car with him I constantly warn him even before he comes anywhere near the sign.

My husband would very seldom go over 80 in a 100 km speed limit and up until now in all cases the speeds that he has been charged with have not been in anyway excessive.

Look seriously at this stage you're making excuses for him.
He goes well below the speed limit in certain areas. He goes well above the speed limit in other areas. He has bad observation and can't see the speed limit signs and despite 6 points has not done anything to take more note of them.

Giving out about other people tailgating, manufacture of cars, is all excuses and nothing to do with him. If he's having that much trouble driving, then take a few lessons.
He is NOT a safe driver if he relies on you all the time to tell him what speed to do!

The speeds he has been charged with were presumably in excess of the speed limit so yes, they are excessive by definition.

This is exactly what I am referring to. My husband regularly has people tail gaiting and pushing him off the road in order to over take. This is the type of thing that causes most accidents.

Then maybe your husband should stop randomly doing 20 below the limit sometimes and higher than the limit other times and drive properly.

Thatnastyboy

bridan90 wrote: »

Manufacturers could reduce the speed at which a car can drive by placing some kind of immobilizing device in the car. The only vehicles that should be capable of driving over 100kms per hour are emergency vehicles.

:eek:

Ok so, sure why is there even different makes and models of cars, there should be just one, with one level of specification and one engine type, with 35bhp and a speed limit of 100km/h.

What about vehicles that are used on motorways where the speed limit is 120km/h

or on private roads? tracks?

OR

How about actually educating people on how to drive properly and that speed is not the only factor that causes accidents?

To be honest my head would be wrecked driving around Dublin all day where lets be honest 99% of the speed enforcement lies.

In general people drive slightly over the speed limit. Try stick to 50kph in a 50 and watch drivers up your arse the whole time . In well know speed enforced areas everybody will play nice.

Its also a mater of luck, for instance i got 4 points in 1 week driving places i wouldn't usually be as a favor to someone. 2 Garda vans cought me doing a negligible 54kph and 56kph in a 50. If i had not done the favor i would not have the points and i could be in here on my high horse like others in here.

bridan90

"Re the rest: I dont know, maybe he needs to pay more attention, by the sounds of it he's too preoccupied to notice speed limit signs, what else is he missing? the small child about to fall off the footpath in front of him? the cyclist on his left?"

In nearly forty years of driving he has never been involved in an RTA. He is NOT a speeder and I have yet to see him drive over 100 kms per hour AT ANY TIME. He has always been a very careful and courteous driver.

bridan90

bridan90 wrote: »

Manufacturers could reduce the speed at which a car can drive by placing some kind of immobilizing device in the car. The only vehicles that should be capable of driving over 100kms per hour are emergency vehicles.

Or your husband could learn to drive properly. Immobilizing devices at 100km aren't going to stop him going 60 in a 50, now are they?
Stop blaming everyone else or insisting stupid rules be brought in because of his penalty points, it's getting ridiculous
there's nothing unsafe about 120 in the right areas with good drivers, or faster still
Drive appropriately to the conditions at all times.

If he is losing sleep because he can't stop himself speeding, he has a problem and talking about immobilizing devices for everyone else is not helping.

bridan90 wrote: »

He is NOT a speeder

He has 6 points for speeding. Deal with it.

He has always been a very careful and courteous driver.

Not if he's driving at 80 in a 100 zone and causing buildups of traffic to the point where people are trying to overtake and getting impatient.

Thatnastyboy

bridan90 wrote: »

In nearly forty years of driving he has never been involved in an RTA. He is NOT a speeder and I have yet to see him drive over 100 kms per hour AT ANY TIME. He has always been a very careful and courteous driver.

Fair enough, how'd he get 6 points then?

Ive never been involved in an RTA either and I will admit to occasionally straying over speed limits, I have 2 points for speeding which I took on the chin and didn't blame anyone else for. (even though I was on an empty dualcarriageway at 7am on a sunday morning which had an 80kph speed limit :rolleyes:)

Because I was the person pushing the go-pedal so its my fault and noone elses; not mr.opel who built my car, not the county council who set the limit, not the crouching tiger-hidden cop who did me for it.

bridan90

cisk wrote: »

To be honest my head would be wrecked driving around Dublin all day where lets be honest 99% of the speed enforcement lies.

In general people drive slightly over the speed limit. Try stick to 50kph in a 50 and watch drivers up your arse the whole time . In well know speed enforced areas everybody will play nice.

Its also a mater of luck, for instance i got 4 points in 1 week driving places i wouldn't usually be as a favor to someone. 2 Garda vans cought me doing a negligible 54kph and 56kph in a 50. If i had not done the favor i would not have the points and i could be in here on my high horse like others in here.

Thank you. This is what I have been trying to get across. I am not making excuses for my husband. If he speeds he deserves the punishment same as everyone else but it should not be a fixed penalty, it should be stepped. It is not fair for someone who has been doing 100 in a 50 km limit to be given the same number of penalty points as someone who went over by a few kms.

Thatnastyboy

bridan90 wrote: »

Thank you. This is what I have been trying to get across. I am not making excuses for my husband. If he speeds he deserves the punishment same as everyone else but it should not be a fixed penalty, it should be stepped. It is not fair for someone who has been doing 100 in a 50 km limit to be given the same number of penalty points as someone who went over by a few kms.

Oh I totally agree with this,

But that's from a different hymn sheet to what you were singing from.

Somebody posted the (I think German) speed penalty system a while back, much more progressive than ours and is based on increments of speed not just breach of limit.

bridan90

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Fair enough, how'd he get 6 points then?

Ive never been involved in an RTA either and I will admit to occasionally straying over speed limits, I have 2 points for speeding which I took on the chin and didn't blame anyone else for. (even though I was on an empty dualcarriageway at 7am on a sunday morning which had an 80kph speed limit :rolleyes:)

Because I was the person pushing the go-pedal so its my fault and noone elses; not mr.opel who built my car, not the county council who set the limit, not the crouching tiger-hidden cop who did me for it.

This was his fault no one else to blame

His six points consist of:

2 points 18 months ago for doing 63 kms in a 60 km limit.

2 points two months ago for doing 82 kms in an 80 km limit

2 points yesterday for doing 61 in an alleged 50 kms limit.

hondasam

Hay_man wrote: »

What about the GATSO vans ??

They are all set for 8/9 km over same as gardai. Some traffic guys set them even higher.

bridan90

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Oh I totally agree with this,

But that's from a different hymn sheet to what you were singing from.

Somebody posted the (I think German) speed penalty system a while back, much more progressive than ours and is based on increments of speed not just breach of limit.

My original question was can anyone tell us what the situation would be if he were to accumulate the 12 points? Would the courts show any mercy at all for a man who up until recently has had an extremely clean driving license? He has never been involved in an accident and he has been driving almost 40 years.

My husband has only a few years left before he retires. He has worked non stop since he was 16. He has always been a law abiding citizen and a tax payer. I am not making excuses for him, he was caught speeding and I am not saying he shouldn't be punished although as said previously the fixed penalty system is unfair when you consider the number of offences that would attract the same number of penalty points. All I asked was should the situation arise that he does accumulate the 12 points is there any redress for him taking into consideration his long history of driving safely and no previous convictions. Seems there are a lot of folk out there ready to throw the first stone.

TwoShedsJackson

bridan90 wrote: »

Can anyone tell us what the situation would be if he were to accumulate the 12 points? Would the courts show any mercy at all for a man who up until recently has had an extremely clean driving license. He has never been involved in an accident and he has been driving almost 40 years. We are at our wits end because if he loses his license it could push him over the edge.

Courts won't care about that and I'm sure you can see why, otherwise everyone who hits 12 points would be saying 'Oh I'm special your honour, I don't deserved to be disqaulified'.

hondasam

bridan90 wrote: »

My original question was can anyone tell us what the situation would be if he were to accumulate the 12 points? Would the courts show any mercy at all for a man who up until recently has had an extremely clean driving license? He has never been involved in an accident and he has been driving almost 40 years.

You have to be trolling now. 12 points is an automatic ban. simple enough answer.

bridan90

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Courts won't care about that and I'm sure you can see why, otherwise everyone who hits 12 points would be saying 'Oh I'm special your honour, I don't deserved to be disqaulified'.

Yes I can up to a point but surely every case is different. If you have someone who has caused an accident or has been caught drunk driving do you think they should receive the same treatment as those who may have been caught driving a few kms over the speed limit?

bridan90

hondasam wrote: »

You have to be trolling now. 12 points is an automatic ban. simple enough answer.

What do you mean by trolling?

Thatnastyboy

bridan90 wrote: »

Yes I can up to a point but surely every case is different. If you have someone who has caused an accident or has been caught drunk driving do you think they should receive the same treatment as those who may have been caught driving a few kms over the speed limit?

Drink driving and causing an accident don't carry a penalty of 2 points and an 80e fine as far as I know.

I see where you're coming from but no matter what way you argue it the result is still the same:

Caught speeding = points

12 points = no more licence

Regardless of how good a family you come from, how much tax you pay, how courteous you are on the road and in court, you will be off the road, as an accumulation of 12 points over the relevant period means that you are deemed as a danger to yourself and other road users.

seamus

Look - plain and simple, it's very easy to not get points for speeding.

You get points when you take your mind off the road and don't watch your speed. I have two myself for doing exactly that.

The specific speeds your husband was doing are irrelevant. Like I say, it's easy to not exceed the speed limit. The car has a speedometer, there are signs on the road. You don't need superhuman concentration to see them, they're already in your field of vision. If your husband is having difficulty concentrating, then I suggest that it might be time for him to start the process of arranging to hang up his keys and stop spending such long hours on the road. It's not sustainable when you get into your later years.

In the case of the "alleged" 50km/h, I would guess that you're probably mistaken about where the incident occurred. If you knew that the sign said 60km/h, why didn't you go take a photo of it and dispute the notice?

Rob32

Hes only getting points as hes braking the law, i really dont see your husbands issue here? I know plenty of delivery/truck drivers who do there job successfully with no points obtained. Also if he is say 1-2km or whatever over the limit, if he doesnt see the big flourescent van parked up the road from him then what do you expect?

R.O.R

bridan90 wrote: »

This was his fault no one else to blame

His six points consist of:

2 points 18 months ago for doing 63 kms in a 60 km limit.

2 points two months ago for doing 82 kms in an 80 km limit

2 points yesterday for doing 61 in an alleged 50 kms limit.

Rather suspicious smell off the bolded bits..........

Having thousands of cars registered to the office, we get a fair few speeding fines in the post, and I don't remember ever seeing one for less than 8KM/h over the limit.

Thatnastyboy

Rob32 wrote: »

Hes only getting points as hes braking the law, i really dont see your husbands issue here? I know plenty of delivery/truck drivers who do there job successfully with no points obtained. Also if he is say 1-2km or whatever over the limit, if he doesnt see the big flourescent van parked up the road from him then what do you expect?

He's probably too busy texting to notice :pac:


* Joke

AltAccount

Can you post a scan of these notices? I don't believe the first two.

bridan90 wrote: »

This was his fault no one else to blame

His six points consist of:

2 points 18 months ago for doing 63 kms in a 60 km limit.

2 points two months ago for doing 82 kms in an 80 km limit

2 points yesterday for doing 61 in an alleged 50 kms limit.

TwoShedsJackson

bridan90 wrote: »

Yes I can up to a point but surely every case is different. If you have someone who has caused an accident or has been caught drunk driving do you think they should receive the same treatment as those who may have been caught driving a few kms over the speed limit?

Yes I do, because you have to set a limit somewhere and stick to it, or everyone will try and weasel their way out of it.

The limit is 12 points, if he hits that he gets a mandatory ban, he knows that and you know that, so all he needs to do is not hit it, which should not be that hard.

goldenhoarde

bridan90 wrote: »

This was his fault no one else to blame

His six points consist of:

2 points 18 months ago for doing 63 kms in a 60 km limit.

2 points two months ago for doing 82 kms in an 80 km limit

2 points yesterday for doing 61 in an alleged 50 kms limit.

if you believe that the one yesterday is wrong than head back to the area and look for the signs to prove its a 60-km zone and then head to court where the judge will throw it out but NB but 100% that you did not miss the sign. I'd work back from the spot he was caught at and find the first sign for speed - thats the limit! If thats 50 hard luck but if its 60 happy days!

Photos of it all will do the trick! Don't pay the notice and maybe head into the local guards and ask their advise if indeed its 60km

andyseadog

Rob32 wrote: »

Also if he is say 1-2km or whatever over the limit, if he doesnt see the big flourescent van parked up the road from him then what do you expect?

i would have thought that by the time you can see the van, its too late to slow.

MugMugs

bridan90 wrote: »

For instance when I am in the car with him I constantly warn him even before he comes anywhere near the sign.

I'd say he loves that !!

bridan90

goldenhoarde wrote: »

if you believe that the one yesterday is wrong than head back to the area and look for the signs to prove its a 60-km zone and then head to court where the judge will throw it out but NB but 100% that you did not miss the sign. I'd work back from the spot he was caught at and find the first sign for speed - thats the limit! If thats 50 hard luck but if its 60 happy days!

Photos of it all will do the trick! Don't pay the notice and maybe head into the local guards and ask their advise if indeed its 60km

Thank you I will do that.

knipex

hondasam wrote: »

You don't get done for 2 or 3 km over the limit.

I have twice

Once doing 3km over the limit on the dock road in Limerick.
Once doing 4km over the limit on the onramp to the southring road in cork coming from Ringaskiddy.

Both time by motorcycle cops.

Rob32

andyseadog wrote: »

i would have thought that by the time you can see the van, its too late to slow.

Every van ive seen anyway has been parked on the side of the road and has a bit of distance before you get to it, presumably so it can measure your speed, if the speed camera signs dont give you a hint to look out for a camera then I think your beyond helping TBH

knipex

hondasam wrote: »

They are all set for 8/9 km over same as gardai. Some traffic guys set them even higher.

Absolutely not true......