Most-Wanted Nazi War Criminal Located in Hungary

Chucken

Laszlo Csatary, the Nazi war criminal who tops the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s most-wanted list, has been living peacefully in Hungary for the past 17 years, and under his own name.

But this weekend the past caught up with him in the shape of reporters from the British tabloid The Sun knocking on the door of his Budapest apartment and confronting him.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/international/most-wanted-nazi-war-criminal-located-in-hungary/530873


In 1948, a Czechoslovakian court condemned Csatary to death in absentia but he had made it to Canada.

He's now 97. What should be done?

Personally I dont care what age he is, it doesn't diminish what he did.

Hande hoche!

Some of those Nazis were very good at hide and seek.

Nodin

They'd want to hurry....

woof im a dog

how is it that the sun found him but no one else managed to find him for so many years

Didnt The Sun break this?

Would be some craic if they tapped his phone and he is acquitted on all charges because of it

Chucken

woof im a dog wrote: »

how is it that the sun found him but no one else managed to find him for so many years

From the article:
The reporters were acting on information provided to Hungarian authorities by the Nazi-hunting Wiesenthal Center last September obtained in what it calls “Operation: Last Chance.”

Chucken

Nodin wrote: »

They'd want to hurry....

Come on Nodin, I expect better answers from you

bijapos

woof im a dog wrote: »

how is it that the sun found him but no one else managed to find him for so many years

It's been known for a long time who he is and where he lives, bit of an exaggeration to say The Sun found him. There have been moves on a diplomatic front for some time to have him face trial but the Hungarians don't want it for their own reasons.

More here, the article is from 1997.

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1086962.html

paddyandy

Edz87 wrote: »

Didnt The Sun break this?

Would be some craic if they tapped his phone and he is acquitted on all charges because of it

There is no Craic about him at all .We Irish were never highly regarded by the Furher .
Good fighters but that's all .Nothing else .

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dont think they can still carry out the death penalty and life in prison isn;t really going to be much a deterrent.

Pottler

It would be Goulash in the extreme if they pressed ahead with a trial and punishment - but some victims relatives will still be hungary for justice. The fecker is 97, sure if they got a balloon and burst it behind him he'd probably keel over on the spot - justice served, go "hunt" the next one - I thought these lads were good at tracking people down, seems not quite so.

Calibos

As if more proof was needed about the non existance of God, but what the hell is it with all the Nazi War Criminals down through the years living into their late 90's ???

Pottler

Calibos wrote: »

As if more proof was needed about the non existance of God, but what the hell is it with all the Nazi War Criminals down through the years living into their late 90's ???

Waits for someone to insert some sort of sick joke , .....or maybe not....

Wibbs

paddyandy wrote: »

There is no Craic about him at all .We Irish were never highly regarded by the Furher .
Good fighters but that's all .Nothing else .

What in god's name are you on about(or on)? Your posts are often like trying to work out some obscure haiku.

Calibos wrote: »

As if more proof was needed about the non existance of God, but what the hell is it with all the Nazi War Criminals down through the years living into their late 90's ???

Pure dumb statistical luck most likely C, though as you say an awful lot of them did make it great ages. Maybe a mixture of zealotry and being on the run might actually make for longevity? Odder things have. People in some ex communist regimes lived much longer under often heavy oppression than when their country's became free and independent. Wartime though obviously increasing the death rate also seems to raise overall health and longevity. One notion put forward is that lower calorie intake may influence this, that and a feeling of shared community against the "enemy". Both of these tend to be also in place in oppressive regimes.

As for this nazi fcukwit? Sure a show trial might have some value, but it would be a pretty blind revenge and show going on. The post war punishment of such creatures tended to vary a lot depending on their origins. German scumbags were hunted down and if captured were imprisoned and often executed, yet the vast majority of Japanese scumbags from the common infantry man all the way up through generals and the emperor himself died of old age in their beds and in China alone they're estimated to have killed up to 20 million Chinese in consistent and sanctioned outbursts of near unbelievable "ethnic cleansing" savagery. An odd double standard going on. Almost racist in my humble. IE the "yellow nip" was expected to be a savage, but we can't countenance and condone white Europeans being so inclined, so they have to be excised. What many in the Soviet armies did in the eastern European countries and Germany at the end of the war is well morally repugnant. Hell what the same Soviets did to their own troops and people was morally repugnant and again Stalin et all usually died in their beds unpunished. This moral stuff can be quite the minefield.

saintsaltynuts

Calibos wrote: »

As if more proof was needed about the non existance of God, but what the hell is it with all the Nazi War Criminals down through the years living into their late 90's ???

Cause there was so many of the feckers.

squod

Shure he was only a frontline nazi. Not like he worked 'upstairs'. Some lad sub contracted by someone else to detain people. He was just doing his job.


etc, etc, etc.........

Ronin247

I would like to see a few of the allied war criminals named and tried as well but that will never happen.Certain organisations made massive profits off the war and whoever ordered Hiroshima and Nagasaki should surely be tried as a war criminal for deliberately targetting civillians? Of course there were only ever war criminals on the losing side.

General Zod

If I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists.

RobbingBandit

Lock him in a room with some Burzum records playing at the highest volume. See if he enjoys what he is responsible for creating.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Try the murdering bastard.. This animal and people like him should not know a minutes peace until their dying day.

jmayo

Wibbs wrote: »

As for this nazi fcukwit? Sure a show trial might have some value, but it would be a pretty blind revenge and show going on. The post war punishment of such creatures tended to vary a lot depending on their origins. German scumbags were hunted down and if captured were imprisoned and often executed, yet the vast majority of Japanese scumbags from the common infantry man all the way up through generals and the emperor himself died of old age in their beds and in China alone they're estimated to have killed up to 20 million Chinese in consistent and sanctioned outbursts of near unbelievable "ethnic cleansing" savagery. An odd double standard going on. Almost racist in my humble. IE the "yellow nip" was expected to be a savage, but we can't countenance and condone white Europeans being so inclined, so they have to be excised. What many in the Soviet armies did in the eastern European countries and Germany at the end of the war is well morally repugnant. Hell what the same Soviets did to their own troops and people was morally repugnant and again Stalin et all usually died in their beds unpunished. This moral stuff can be quite the minefield.

Supposedly Stalin did not have such a nice end.
I recall seeing an interview given by his daughter complaining that they left him to die as they did not want him to survive.
She should have known better seeing what the fooker actually did to his own family never mind the entire population of USSR and Eastern Europe before she opened her trap.

As regards the Japs, well the Allies even covered up the fact they engaged in cannibalism even when they weren't starving.
And it is not that they were Asian that got them off, it was fact they often did the worse sh** to other Asians.
Oh and fact their scientific experiments (ala Mengele) helped the US.

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would like to see a few of the allied war criminals named and tried as well but that will never happen.Certain organisations made massive profits off the war and whoever ordered Hiroshima and Nagasaki should surely be tried as a war criminal for deliberately targetting civillians? Of course there were only ever war criminals on the losing side.

Oh FFS.
Here we go.

How many fooking civilians would have died if there had to be a full scale invasion of the Japanese home islands?
Look up a history book and see what the civilian casulties on Okinawa and Saipan were like.
Or better still explain how the emperor had encouraged civilians to committ suicide rather than be taken prisoner ?

Then work how if dropping atom bombs ultimately saved more lives than it cost.

At least you didn't mention Dresden. :rolleyes:

strobe

Pfft... Thread Godwinned in the first post.

johngalway

Chucken wrote: »

What should be done?

he helped organize the deportation to the Nazi death camp Auschwitz of approximately 15,700 Jews from Kosice and the vicinity in the spring of 1944, it says.

He would also beat women with a whip he carried on his belt and force them toe dig holes with their bare hands.

Shoot him.

paddyandy

Wibbs should read up some history ....you still smarting from a previous skirmish .

A Disgrace

If we can allow the men responsible (or at least those who were part of the organisation that was responsible) for thousands of murders in this country, to become elected politicians, then I see no issue with this guy being allowed live out his life.

Justice is one thing, but a 97 year old man, 70 years after his crime, being 'shot' isn't going to fix a thing. There is a thing called reconciliation you know, and while it's a bit far fetched to assume that Jews will forgive and forget those who carried out the atrocities etc, they should take a leaf from other countries - such as ourselves, when we recently welcomed the Monarch who represents a country that once sent Oliver Cromwell to systematically wipe out as much of our population as possible. It's in the past, yes, but so is this

Border-Rat

paddyandy wrote: »

There is no Craic about him at all .We Irish were never highly regarded by the Furher .

Which you just made up.

Hitler has only been known to mention the Irish 3 times. i) During a speech in 1939 where he laughed off American threats on not harming Ireland, Hitler said Ireland's main threat/fear was England, ii) Denying his Generals permission to draw up a plan to invade Ireland, saying that a landing in Ireland could only happen by request and iii) congratulating Sean Dempsey on being a wonderful musician.

up for anything

Pottler wrote: »

It would be Goulash in the extreme if they pressed ahead with a trial and punishment - but some victims relatives will still be hungary for justice. The fecker is 97, sure if they got a balloon and burst it behind him he'd probably keel over on the spot - justice served, go "hunt" the next one - I thought these lads were good at tracking people down, seems not quite so.

Great puns or are you just a crap speller?:D

He's had over 50 years of life that he, in my opinion, doesn't deserve. It would do no harm to cut short the few he has left both to show him that he didn't get away with it and to show others that punishment can catch up with them even if it takes a long time.

I'm sure it's not just his victim's relatives that would wish for justice but his actual victims that survived.

Jaafa

The post war punishment of such creatures tended to vary a lot depending on their origins. German scumbags were hunted down and if captured were imprisoned and often executed, yet the vast majority of Japanese scumbags from the common infantry man all the way up through generals and the emperor himself died of old age in their beds and in China alone they're estimated to have killed up to 20 million Chinese in consistent and sanctioned outbursts of near unbelievable "ethnic cleansing" savagery. An odd double standard going on.

I'd imagine were it not for the vested interests of Israel, the hunt for German war criminals would also have petered out long ago.

SafeSurfer

paddyandy wrote: »

There is no Craic about him at all .We Irish were never highly regarded by the Furher .
Good fighters but that's all .Nothing else .

Why would anyone consider the Irish good fighters? Unless your talking about drunken brawls amongst ourselves.

Where is the Irish empire?

800 years to "liberate" the island?

Come on, the Irish are terrible fighters.

ottostreet

Calibos wrote: »

As if more proof was needed about the non existance of God, but what the hell is it with all the Nazi War Criminals down through the years living into their late 90's ???

Superior genetics? Maybe Hitler was right.

Riddle101

97 years old. Whatever happens to him, is irrelevant now because he lived a full life. If he died tommorrow, he still managed to live a supposedly happy life which is more then I can say for the people he killed.

ArtSmart

Wibbs wrote: »

German scumbags were hunted down and if captured were imprisoned and often executed, yet the vast majority of Japanese scumbags from the common infantry man all the way up through generals and the emperor himself died of old age in their beds and in China alone they're estimated to have killed up to 20 million Chinese in consistent and sanctioned outbursts of near unbelievable "ethnic cleansing" savagery. An odd double standard going on. Almost racist in my humble. IE the "yellow nip" was expected to be a savage, but we can't countenance and condone white Europeans being so inclined, so they have to be excised. What many in the Soviet armies did in the eastern European countries and Germany at the end of the war is well morally repugnant. Hell what the same Soviets did to their own troops and people was morally repugnant and again Stalin et all usually died in their beds unpunished. This moral stuff can be quite the minefield.

well the standard Allied nazi hunters stopped searching soon after the war ended. the hunt was taken up be specific parties, invariably led/ supported by Jewish societies or funding. In other words, nazi hunting wasn't a 'Western' action - it was a specific action by a specific group and a fully justified one.

so the analogy doesnt really translate.

what Is interesting however, is the lack of mention of how Allied POW troops were treated by the Japanese. In that, your point definitely holds.

Calibos

saintsaltynuts wrote: »

Cause there was so many of the feckers.

So its confirmation Bias you reckon? Could be I suppose.

ArtSmart

Riddle101 wrote: »

97 years old. Whatever happens to him, is irrelevant now because he lived a full life. If he died tommorrow, he still managed to live a supposedly happy life which is more then I can say for the people he killed.

It aint 'bout the man, or any individual. It's about stating that the elimination of a race of people cannot be allowed to go unresponded to at any time , in any circumstances.

i have to laugh at the vested interest by Israel comment someone made.

fuking sure, they've a vested interest.

If the Nazis or similar goons decided that the Irish were the cause of the worlds ills and attempted to exterminate the entire race, dont you think we'd be pretty damned fuking certain we'd do exactly the same as the nazi hunters?

charlemont

Lock him up, Let him die in captivity, He will be kept busy pondering the fate that awaits him when he dies.

Locking him up sends out the message to any wannabe genocidal maniacs that you can't kill people and expect to live out your own life without getting caught eventually.

meoklmrk91

ottostreet wrote: »

Superior genetics? Maybe Hitler was right.

Nah I would say its more the fact that you can't kill a bad thing.

I do believe that he should be tried regardless of his age, although I am sure he won't be, I really don't understand why a person can be considered too old to face the punishment for crimes they committed, surely he a murderous Cnut 60 odd years ago he still is now, if he dies during the trial or in captivity then well he met a better end than many of his comrades.

Father Damo

Wibbs wrote: »

d, yet the vast majority of Japanese scumbags from the common infantry man all the way up through generals and the emperor himself died of old age in their beds and in China alone they're estimated to have killed up to 20 million Chinese in consistent and sanctioned outbursts of near unbelievable "ethnic cleansing" savagery. An odd double standard going on. Almost racist in my humble. IE the "yellow nip" was expected to be a savage, but we can't countenance and condone white Europeans being so inclined, so they have to be excised. What many in the Soviet armies did in the eastern European countries and Germany at the end of the war is well morally repugnant. Hell what the same Soviets did to their own troops and people was morally repugnant and again Stalin et all usually died in their beds unpunished. This moral stuff can be quite the minefield.

Very good point, I have never once heard of an elderly Jap being investigated for war crimes even though they commited an awful lot of them. Statistically Japan has one of the oldest life expectancys in the world, if you consider the youngest people to serve in the war and commit crimes are 85 now, even in 20 to 30 years some will still be alive given the age some live to in Japan.

gobnaitolunacy

Father Damo wrote: »

Very good point, I have never once heard of an elderly Jap being investigated for war crimes even though they commited an awful lot of them. Statistically Japan has one of the oldest life expectancys in the world, if you consider the youngest people to serve in the war and commit crimes are 85 now, even in 20 to 30 years some will still be alive given the age some live to in Japan.

Some of the top brass were dealt with in the immediate aftermath of the war, but I don't recall any of the rank and file being made an example of. Was is resources or record keeping that prevented any pursuit? Certainly the Jewish lobby has some serious funding and support. It wouldn't have been very hard to track Japanese war criminals down, I'd say the most of them went back home afterwards.
Strangely enough, the Death Railway is regarded as something of an engineering feat in Japan, in spite of what it better known for in the Western world.

Father Damo

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Strangely enough, the Death Railway is regarded as something of an engineering feat in Japan, in spite of what it better known for in the Western world.

Sure Cromwell routinely gets voted to the top of those Greatest Briton type polls despite being the closest thing to Hitler they ever produced (invasion of neighbouring lands, mass murder of civillians, deportation of civillians from prime agricultural land to the barren West to allow for British settlement, there really is little difference between Cromwell in Ireland and Hitler in Eastern Europe)

Wibbs

paddyandy wrote: »

Wibbs should read up some history ....you still smarting from a previous skirmish .

Again with the odd (wildly inaccurate)statements. Maybe try to y'know debate? Just try once. Pretty please?

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would like to see a few of the allied war criminals named and tried as well but that will never happen.Certain organisations made massive profits off the war and whoever ordered Hiroshima and Nagasaki should surely be tried as a war criminal for deliberately targetting civillians? Of course there were only ever war criminals on the losing side.

Oh god not this old saw.:rolleyes: Difference between Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden and say the "final solution"? The second the armies of those countries surrendered, the bombings stopped. If Germany or Japan had surrendered in say 43 those events wouldn't have happened If the Jews, Gypsies, Russians, disabled and various other "enemies of the state" surrendered they would have kept on killing them and that's the moral difference.

I agree massive profits were made from the war, especially in the US. What people often forget is the same massive profits made in Germany by numerous companies and businessmen that helped Hitler to power and helped him prosecute the war. Companies and businessmen who continued on after the war down to today and very very few were brought to task.

ArtSmart wrote: »

well the standard Allied nazi hunters stopped searching soon after the war ended. the hunt was taken up be specific parties, invariably led/ supported by Jewish societies or funding. In other words, nazi hunting wasn't a 'Western' action - it was a specific action by a specific group and a fully justified one.

so the analogy doesnt really translate.

Forget the later hunts, the standard scumbag hunters didn't search in the first place in the far east, even though they had names and evidence. The POW's you mention were another group who lobbied who they could to bring some of these scumbags to trial, but to little avail. Interestingly the Chinese, who had the most to feel bitter about didn't go very vengeful at all when the dust had settled and repatriated the vast majority of Japanese servicemen, including self confessed war criminals.

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Some of the top brass were dealt with in the immediate aftermath of the war, but I don't recall any of the rank and file being made an example of. Was is resources or record keeping that prevented any pursuit?

Oh they had the records alright, just the will seemed lacking compared to the Nazi trials in Europe.

Certainly the Jewish lobby has some serious funding and support.

Not so much at the time though. They barely had a country at that stage and then spent the next decade(and beyond) fighting over it.

Strangely enough, the Death Railway is regarded as something of an engineering feat in Japan, in spite of what it better known for in the Western world.

Yep, though to be fair to the current Japanese they know very very little of their wartime history. Your average Japanese wouldn't have much of a clue about the atrocities perpetrated by their great grandfathers in Manchuria. Those questions have been avoided like the plague. They certainly never had the historical exposition and guilt educated into them that Germans had.

Einhard

Wibbs wrote: »

As for this nazi fcukwit? Sure a show trial might have some value, but it would be a pretty blind revenge and show going on. The post war punishment of such creatures tended to vary a lot depending on their origins. German scumbags were hunted down and if captured were imprisoned and often executed, yet the vast majority of Japanese scumbags from the common infantry man all the way up through generals and the emperor himself died of old age in their beds and in China alone they're estimated to have killed up to 20 million Chinese in consistent and sanctioned outbursts of near unbelievable "ethnic cleansing" savagery. An odd double standard going on. Almost racist in my humble. IE the "yellow nip" was expected to be a savage, but we can't countenance and condone white Europeans being so inclined, so they have to be excised. What many in the Soviet armies did in the eastern European countries and Germany at the end of the war is well morally repugnant. Hell what the same Soviets did to their own troops and people was morally repugnant and again Stalin et all usually died in their beds unpunished. This moral stuff can be quite the minefield.

Excellent points there Wibbs, but I think you'll probably agree with me when I argue that justice should in no way be relative. I don't think that lack of vigour in prosecuting Japense war criminals should affect the process of going after those of a Nazi hue. Also, I'm no expert on the situation that pertained after the surrender of Japan, but from what I understand, the atrocities of the Nazis were in many ways more apaprent to the allies than those perpetrated by Hirohito's troops. In Europe, the concentration camps were liberated by allied soldiers with allied reporters in their wake. They were concentrated near population centres, and were easily accessible. The horrors of the Nazi regime perpetrated by dehumanised minions like this Csizsik-Csatary fellow were apparent to all. In contrast, and correct me if I'm wrong, but such a situation did not pertain in the Far East, particulary in China where the most inhuman crimes took place. (It's sobering to think that, such was the barbarity of the Japanese troops in China, Nazi envoys sent horrified reports back to Berlin on their actions against the civilian population- and yet, very few Westerners appreciate the scale of the horror perpetrated by Imperial Japan). I'm not altogether certain therefore, that one can ascribe racist motivation, or even an undercurrent of such, to the failure to prosectute known Japanese war criminals.

As for the Soviets, who committed terrible crimes in their push towards Berlin, well just as history is written by the victor, so justice is administered. The Soviets were never going to prosecute their own (and neither, incidentally, were the British, French, or Americans). Having said that, partial justice is better than no justice IMO.

As an aside, it's interesting to note how Japan and Germany's respective handling of their actions in that period have shaped their relations in the world today. I'd argue that Germany, through acknowledging her historical crimes, by prosecuting and abbeting the prosecution of known war criminals, and by paying reparations, has largely owned up to the legacy of that era, and this has been cathartic. Germany has good relations with practically every nation, including those such as Poland and France who bore the brunt of Nazi-era aggression. In repeated polls, she is found to be respected by both political leaders in Europe, and by citizens of most European countries.

The opposite is true for Japan. The inability (or obstinate refusal) to own her past actions, the honouring of dead war criminals at the national shrine, and the re-writing of school textbooks to shine a more positive light on her imperial history, has consistently stoked tensions with her neighours, and frequently provoked furious outbursts of ant-Japanese violence.

So perhaps, one could argue that not only is moral justice good for the soul, but that it is good in an entirely pragmatic sense too!

Einhard

jmayo wrote: »

Oh FFS.
Here we go.

How many fooking civilians would have died if there had to be a full scale invasion of the Japanese home islands?
Look up a history book and see what the civilian casulties on Okinawa and Saipan were like.
Or better still explain how the emperor had encouraged civilians to committ suicide rather than be taken prisoner ?

Then work how if dropping atom bombs ultimately saved more lives than it cost.

At least you didn't mention Dresden. :rolleyes:

People might find it odd, but while I don't consider Hiroshima or Nagasaki to be war crimes because they hastened the end of the war, and thus saved countless lives, I don't feel the same about Dresden, or say, the firebombing of Tokyo. They seemed much more like revenge to me, and that, IMO, puts them in a different sphere than the dropping of Little Boy and Fat Man.

Einhard

Jaafa wrote: »

I'd imagine were it not for the vested interests of Israel, the hunt for German war criminals would also have petered out long ago.

Hmmm...so that's what you call a desire for justice then?

Damn crime victims and their vested interests.

gobnaitolunacy

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh they had the records alright, just the will seemed lacking compared to the Nazi trials in Europe. QUOTE]

A lot of records were destroyed prior to the Allied takeover of Japan, the Japanese didn't really know what the Allies had in store for them, even schoolkids were trained in hand to hand combat. Apart from the Bombs, maybe they may have been a little surprised how leniently they were treated?

Jaafa

Einhard wrote: »

Hmmm...so that's what you call a desire for justice then?

Damn crime victims and their vested interests.

A poor choice of words perhaps, it wasn't my intention for it to come across like that.

biko

****ing nazi scum. Try him, convict him and hang him.

gobnaitolunacy

biko wrote: »

****ing nazi scum. Try him, convict him and hang him.

That's never going to happen, ie that end result, no matter how deserved.
Most likely a low-security prison more like a B&B to live out the rest of his days.

karma_

Einhard wrote: »

People might find it odd, but while I don't consider Hiroshima or Nagasaki to be war crimes because they hastened the end of the war, and thus saved countless lives, I don't feel the same about Dresden, or say, the firebombing of Tokyo. They seemed much more like revenge to me, and that, IMO, puts them in a different sphere than the dropping of Little Boy and Fat Man.

They were of course war crimes. The Japanese were already defeated and there was never any need to have a land invasion of an island nation. What's worse in fact, is that they were dropped to show the world and particularly the Russians what America was capable of. There's plenty of testimony from many of the US top brass at the time showing their disapproval of the dropping of the a-bombs.

It's actually still relevant today, because as much as the US still go on about others obtaining WMD's, they are the only ones to have ever used them on actual targets.

getz

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Some of those Nazis were very good at hide and seek.

and there is me banking he would be found in ireland

karma_

getz wrote: »

and there is me banking he would be found in ireland

Damn man... you really do have issues about being from Ireland.

DEFTLEFTHAND

A couple of years ago The Sun 'exposed' a former concentration camp guard who was back living in Germany. Nothing ever came of it, he died recently. Any of these people still living are not long for this world anyway. I don't think we'll ever see another person charged with war crimes in relation to Nazi Germany.