Does the local church bell infringe my friends human rights?

speaking

I have a friend who works nights. He gets in at 9am goes to bed at around 10 and is woken up by the sound of a church bell at 12. He has does everything possible to reduce the sound even to the extent of getting triple glazing in.

He cant get back to sleep from 12 for a few hours and its really getting to him.

Are his human rights being infringed?

Should he make a complaint to someone and if so who?

Lapin

Don't be silly.


Welcome to Boards.

MagicMarker

Doubt it, he's just unfortunate. It must be a pretty big bell if it wakes him up through his triple glazing. Also it's not the bell's fault that he can't get back to sleep.

Try earplugs.

blindside88

First world problems. I don't see how your friend thinks this is infringing on his human rights

speaking

Lapin wrote: »

Don't be silly.


Welcome to Boards.

Thanks.

I though so to, but the more I think about it the more I am thinking there is something wrong with this.

Why should he have to put up with the sound of this bell disrupting his sleep. If a house alarm went off for a minute at 12 would he be silly to complain?

Whats the difference?

byhookorbycrook

What right exactly ??

MagicMarker

speaking wrote: »

Why should he have to put up with the sound of this bell disrupting his sleep. If a house alarm went off for a minute at 12 would he be silly to complain?

Whats the difference?

There is no difference, because neither are infringing on your human rights.

christmas2012

its not just a first world problem its a problem in the third world too,and the quaran ones are even worse,putting up with our own one is bad enough,they should scrap them,why should anybody have to hear that insulting ring ring as if we have to remember our own morality,we have morality we dont need the church to teach us that,we see how churches interfere in politics to a disasterous end in other countries where they have hangings and beheadings for innocent people,thats what happens when you give religions power..that ring should be stopped at all costs,its a nuisance..if everybody turned away from the church we would lead much better lives..

speaking

MagicMarker wrote: »

Doubt it, he's just unfortunate. It must be a pretty big bell if it wakes him up through his triple glazing. Also it's not the bell's fault that he can't get back to sleep.

Try earplugs.

In fairness he lives next door to the church. He has tried ear plugs but he says he can still hear the vibrations (seriously).

christmas2012

he should complain to the council about it..

MagicMarker

speaking wrote: »

In fairness he lives next door to the church. He has tried ear plugs but he says he can still hear the vibrations (seriously).

He probably shouldn't have bought a house next to a church then.

byhookorbycrook

It's during the day. My neighbours mow their lawn on a Sat, is this an infringement of my human rights??I don't think right to uninterrupted daytime sleep makes it to any human rights charter.

K.Flyer

I am sure that the church bell has been ringing for many years longer than your friend has been hearing it. Doubt he would have any hope of it being stopped as it would now be a locally accepted norm for the area for many years.

speaking

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

What right exactly ??

Article 12 and 24 of the universal declaration

Or simply the right to a good nights (days) sleep free from religious interference.

speaking

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

It's during the day. My neighbours mow their lawn on a Sat, is this an infringement of my human rights??I don't think right to uninterrupted daytime sleep makes it to any human rights charter.

Yes but your neighbors are mowing the lawn not trying to constantly impose their religion on to your life every day.

Now if they were to mow their lawn every day at 12????

jhegarty

speaking wrote: »

Article 12 and 24 of the universal declaration

Or simply the right to a good nights (days) sleep free from religious interference.

Don't see how either apply. Neither mention sleep.


12
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

24
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

speaking

MagicMarker wrote: »

He probably shouldn't have bought a house next to a church then.

Its not his house its his wifes, she had it before married and he moved in. He does have a house that he rents out but thats another story I suppose.

byhookorbycrook

speaking wrote: »

Yes but your neighbors are mowing the lawn not trying to constantly impose their religion on to your life every day.

Now if they were to mow their lawn every day at 12????

eeerrrr, a ringing bell is hardly imposing religion on someone.

speaking

jhegarty wrote: »

Don't see how either apply. Neither mention sleep.


12
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home .................Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Interference with his family home.................... Protection from interference or attacks (church bells)

24

jhegarty wrote: »

Everyone has the right to rest.

Being picky I know but I think there is something there

byhookorbycrook

So the icecream van that drives into our estate every day at 5 is infringing my rights?C'mon, let's take a case to the U.N.

speaking

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

eeerrrr, a ringing bell is hardly imposing religion on someone.

tell my friend that

Im sorry but I would have to disagree with you there. A ringing bell in the context of a church bell is imposing religious belief of someone. If one does not want to or choose to hear it, if it is ritualistic and symbolic and constant over a sustained period of time I would say it is being imposed.

BunShopVoyeur

Ridiculous.

speaking

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So the icecream van that drives into our estate every day at 5 is infringing my rights?C'mon, let's take a case to the U.N.

If it is very loud, if you have asked for it to be turned down and they have refused, if the vibrations also effected your sleep then I would say it impinged on your human rights yes.

recedite

The thing about the bells is that the sound is very established and predictable. Similarly with the sea and waves; don't buy a house near the sea if the sound of the pounding surf annoys you (and don't try to sue the sea either).

speaking

BunShopVoyeur wrote: »

Ridiculous.

In other circumstances I would agree with you. But this guy is suffering, seriously.

I understand people not in the position would take your view.

speaking

recedite wrote: »

The thing about the bells is that the sound is very established and predictable. Similarly with the sea and waves; don't buy a house near the sea if the sound of the pounding surf annoys you (and don't try to sue the sea either).

He didnt buy the house.
Lots of things have been established (the church itself) does not give it inherent credibility)

The waves are nature a church bell is religous imposition. I am surprised at some of the attitudes on this.

neemish

Kind of living beside a fire station and asking that they not ring the sirens when there's an emergency. You know what you're getting into when you move there

MagicMarker

I live next to a road, the cars annoy me. I think the road should be moved.

I live near an airport, the planes annoy me, can the airport be moved?

The above scenarios are as ridiculous as your friend's. Especially when your friend has a solution staring him in the face, move out and live in his own house.

speaking

neemish wrote: »

Kind of living beside a fire station and asking that they not ring the sirens when there's an emergency. You know what you're getting into when you move there

He moved in with his wife. A fire brigade is for the protection of all of society, it is there for all religions and none.

A church bell is the imposition of one belief all others. there is a difference.

speaking

MagicMarker wrote: »

I live next to a road, the cars annoy me. I think the road should be moved.

I live near an airport, the planes annoy me, can the airport be moved?

The above scenarios are as ridiculous as your friend's. Especially when your friend has a solution staring him in the face, move out and live in his own house.

roads are for all people, airports too. Church bells are an imposition

He cant move back to his own house for reasons I dont want to go into. Very messy situation actually there.

zenno

I live close to a church as well and the noise of this bell would give you a headache. I suppose the bouncing up and down priests on the bell leaver need to remind the brainwashed sheep that it's time for their daily brainwashing lessons. Anyway a petition was signed not too long ago to shut them up making noise pollution banging their bell all day but they started it off again so county council again it is, noise pollution that is causing me a headache. At least i can turn the sound off at 6 0 clock news angeles.

Also ice-cream vans for some reason don't bother me it's just the loud banging noise from the metal bell, so it will be stopped here soon again i'm sure. Complain to the county council and also get some petitions before hand to shut them up banging their crapcan all day.

neemish

What about the noise that comes from Croker on a Sunday? I hate sport! Cant stand it. Those people are infringing on my right to a quiet weekend. cancel the Championship!

MagicMarker

speaking wrote: »

roads are for all people, airports too. Church bells are an imposition

I don't drive or fly, they are an imposition on me, the people using those services are imposing their transportation beliefs on me.

golden lane

if they refuse to stop.....don't sit there wringing your hands in frustration.....make an a ap-peal....

swampgas

I doubt you'd get far with it as a human rights issue, a better approach would be to see if there are local ordinances about noisiness that might be applied. Mybe this is a question for one of the legal forums?

byhookorbycrook

same old ding-dong...

zenno

The church is destroyed and falling into oblivion anyway so it won't be long till their noise is stopped completely, hopefully. And hopefully we can remove the lines...'and the bells are ringing out for christmas day' from the pogues song as well, lets go the full hog on this.

robindch

speaking wrote: »

Are his human rights being infringed?

No, but it sounds like a public nuisance.

speaking wrote: »

Should he make a complaint to someone and if so who?

The local town council would be a good start.

Otherwise, well, in the UK, complaining about this kind of public nuisance can produce positive results:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134905/Church-bell-chimed-world-wars-silenced-complaint-village-newcomer.html

Another alternative is to buy a large sound system and broadcast the islamic call to prayer just after the bell has sounded. If one religion can be a public nuisance, then another one should be allowed to be too.

Lapin

If public bells infringed anyones human rights the MPs in Westminster would have enacted a law to stop them by now.

After all, it must be annoying trying to get some sleep in the House of Commons with Big Ben creating a racket every 15 minutes.

K.Flyer

speaking wrote: »

Are his human rights being infringed?

On what grounds does he feel his human rights are being infringed, On the basis of his religious belief / faith or disruption of peace due to noise? Or both?

mikemac1

neemish wrote: »

What about the noise that comes from Croker on a Sunday? I hate sport! Cant stand it. Those people are infringing on my right to a quiet weekend. cancel the Championship!

Funny you should say that

I used to be a resident in the area and was there when the planning permission went in for the floodlights

One of the residents committees went on Newstalk Radio and argued some UN statute/declaration/whatever about the right to free movement and that evening matches would infringe this

Though one day they were testing the lights and knocked out the power to half of Drumcondra :pac:

zenno

robindch wrote: »

No, but it sounds like a public nuisance.The local town council would be a good start.

Otherwise, well, in the UK, complaining about this kind of public nuisance can produce positive results:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134905/Church-bell-chimed-world-wars-silenced-complaint-village-newcomer.html

Another alternative is to buy a large sound system and broadcast the islamic call to prayer just after the bell has sounded. If one religion can be a public nuisance, then another one should be allowed to be too.

Jeez don't be giving them ideas.

GarIT

This may be helpful.

K.Flyer

robindch wrote: »

Another alternative is to buy a large sound system and broadcast the islamic call to prayer just after the bell has sounded. If one religion can be a public nuisance, then another one should be allowed to be too.

There has been no mention of Islam in any of the OP posts, why bring Islam into it.

patspost

Maybe if your friend wepunt to bed a bit later he would be more tired when the bell rings and be better able to fall back asleep.

fifi234ie

I'd say your friend is lucky that it only rings at 12.
I have a friend who lives in a small town and the bell rings automatically every hour of the day.

jhegarty

robindch wrote: »

Otherwise, well, in the UK, complaining about this kind of public nuisance can produce positive results:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134905/Church-bell-chimed-world-wars-silenced-complaint-village-newcomer.html

Another alternative is to buy a large sound system and broadcast the islamic call to prayer just after the bell has sounded. If one religion can be a public nuisance, then another one should be allowed to be too.

Still wouldn't help the op as that only applied to between 11pm and 7am.

zenno

Maybe the church can install a humane bell just like the ones people install in their house, even though it will be louder at least it will have a nice chime so it won't be so inhumane. This draconian banging from metal balled bells is just too loud so there's their option or else they will use no bell.

im invisible

why does he not stay up another couple hours, do a bit of excercise, or cleaning the house, or something,
he'll be ready for sleep at a minute past 12 then, and get a good days sleep....

Lapin

..... Well, a good 6 hours until the Angelus in the evening.

zenno

im invisible wrote: »

why does he not stay up another couple hours, do a bit of excercise, or cleaning the house, or something,
he'll be ready for sleep at a minute past 12 then, and get a good days sleep....

That's mad, the guy is probably knackered and can't stay awake so needs sleep. Stay awake for another couple of hours when he's probably too tired to do so, nah that's not a solution.

I suppose you could take a trip over to the church and have a word with one of the priests and explain it to him and who knows they might stop it at that time.