The Butter Road Ultra Fun-Run

b.harte

http://connect.garmin.com/course/1636567

I was promising myself that I would give this a go later in the year, after Dingle Ultra.
There has been some behind the scenes messaging and general chatter, and a surprising amount of interest, so I've decide to start a thread on it.

This, as you can see is a 100km (ish) route from Tralee Co. Kerry to The Butter Museum (stop sniggering) in Cork City.
It isn't flat.

It is a road that has historical significance and is a nice place to run with some fantastic scenery along the way.

My idea is to get a few like minded people to join me, it's not a race, there is no entry fee, no medals, no tech-tees and no chip timing, no AAI certification for the course, no goodie bags, no sponsorship and no easy way to Cork.
You will have to carry your own water / fuel.
I can organise bag drops every 25km or so, I can mark out the route and I've asked a local bike club to provide out-riding.

But, it is certainly a challenge.

The provisional date is Saturday 29th September, although this clashes with the Carlow / Kilkenny Marathon which some interested parties are doing.
This is midway between Dingle and DCM.
But this date is not fixed in stone, if there is enough interest for an alternative date then why not?

If anyone would like to give it a go please express your interest here.

I'll have a chat with the local Guards and Civil Defence / St. John's ambulance to see what advice they can offer.
I'm also going to contact the local clubs along the way to see if any of their members would be interested in dropping on or off the route to keep the full distance runners company / motivated.

And finally, I'll lay my cards out, I will start it, I will have trained for it, but I'm not sure if I have the legs to finish it, all I do know is that I will give it a go.
And there is no shame in not finishing, only shame in never trying.

So, who's in?

Bertie

TLDR; Version, I'm too chicken to tackle 100km on my own, I need a few others to keep me company. You in?

TFBubendorfer

You can put my name down; tentatively at the moment, I'd say there's a 75% chance of me doing it.

Would that count towards the 100 marathon club?

RacoonQueen

Agh I'd totally consider it if it was a bit later in the year. September is too soon for me to get myself together.

b.harte

The date is flexible, even the 29th doesn't suit me fully as I am working that weekend, I'll have to arrange swaps and stuff, work up holidays etc.
But it is midway between two big events and allows a recovery between them. (pure speculation on my behalf, I've never tested my recovery from a 50mile event)
The only negative I can see with moving it to later in the year is shortage of daylight hours, I'm not bothered about night running but I know the stretch from Rylane to Cork isn't a road I'd be comfortable on at dusk, even with outriders.
If you are interested we can try to agree another date, I'm hopeful that others may input as well.

TFB, I don't think so, I remember reading something about 100M club that they have to be "official" in order to count.

b.harte

I'll throw these out for anone who isn't keen on doing the full 100ish km.
Alternative starts.
Castleisland, 83km to Cork.
Rathmore 57km to Cork.
Millstreet 46km to Cork.

Bertie

belcarra

I'd love to give this a go but rather than starting from one of those points I'd prefer to start in Tralee and see how far I could go.
Unfortunately for me though I am pretty taken up for the rmainder of the year so ideally for me this would take place during the first couple of weekends in March - a couple of weeks after the Donadea 50k but 4/5 weeks before Connemara.
But bang away with this Autumn if that suits people better...we can do a repeat in the new year!

TFBubendorfer

Sorry guys, but I have to cry off. I'm not recovering anywhere near as well as I hoped from my last race and the last thing I should be doing now is to run ultra after ultra on top of that.

Having said that, I still really like the idea. If it could be repeated at a later stage I'd definitely be interested.

b.harte

That's no problem Thomas.
Currently the consensus seems to favour a date later in the year, I'm okay with that.
The only problem would be shortening days. See here:
http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/cork.html
Another alternative might be to run it in 2 legs, Tralee to either Rathmore or Millstreet, and a 2nd leg from Rathmore / Millstreet to Cork.
Again, I've no problem with this, and it might interest a few more people, approx 50km each leg.
My wife is currently not too impressed with my plan, getting a bit of a cold shoulder at the minute so I'll have to see how she feels after Dingle, my long runs are beginning to annoy her.
On a lighter note, I ran (actually walked most ) the section from Millstreet up over mushera a few weeks ago, I hit it after 20km, not sure how it would feel after 50km but I've a whole litany of swear words to describe it.
It's the bit from 20-30km this route:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/202695161
I also had to run the top off-road bit blind because of low cloud, couldn't see any further than 20mtrs.

So, shall we reschedule a split version later in the year?

RacoonQueen

Would definitely be more interested if it were later in the year.

b.harte

Slightly off topic:
There is a talk as part of heritage week by a local historian on the 19th, if you are into that sort of thing, (I read the book about it, kind of interesting) More details here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11ldZAdRHFD2pZh2w8jYgVjmzIz3e03mE2wK9RDNSZRY/edit
Bertie

b.harte

Time to make a call on this:
Think of it as a training run for the Eddie Murphy 30mile or Double Marathon in November.
Following some soul searching and my run in Dingle I think the full 100km might not be the best idea at this point.
Lack of daylight and running into Cork with a setting sun on my back are my biggest concerns. (has nothing to do with all the climbs in the tail end)
So, a 2 stage run might be the better option.
Sat 29th September 11:00 leave Tralee (Kerry county museum) run to Millstreet. 55-58km.
I'll be getting the train from Millstreet.
Self sufficient is the order of the day carry your own water / fuel.
Soup and Hang Samiches in the Wallis arms afterwards, I'm trying to get the okay for showers in the community center.
Might be a solo run, but anyone who wants to join me is welcome.
2nd part Millstreet to Cork the following week. (TBC)

Bertie

RJC

I stumbled across this yesterday evening and was sorely tempted to have a crack off of it.

I scraped the willpower together to not run it but it was a close run thing.

I think an 11:00am start is cutting it fine for a 60km run in terms of light and the time of year. It's fine if you're fast enough to do 60km in 4 or 5 hours but for most ppl that will be a 6 - 8 hr run if not 9 hrs (allowing for terrain, fade in pace and elevation gain).

If you were serious about hosting an event then I think you have to start it at a time that allows the average plodders to make it to the finish in daylight.

Best of luck with it though - I think we're on the cusp of moving into the scenic ultra scene in Ireland.

b.harte

RJC wrote: »

I think an 11:00am start is cutting it fine for a 60km run in terms of light and the time of year. It's fine if you're fast enough to do 60km in 4 or 5 hours but for most ppl that will be a 6 - 8 hr run if not 9 hrs (allowing for terrain, fade in pace and elevation gain).

Yeah, I've concerns about that myself, I suffered a lot of fade in Dingle at around 50-60km. The original start time was 0600 but now that it is shortened I am getting a lift to Tralee or the Train, (which gets in just before 1100). I would prefer to be on the road for about 9 but that would mean an earlier start from home, which mrs. b.harte isn't impressed about already. At the minute it looks like this will be a solo run as a test so I can juggle the time a bit.

RJC wrote: »

If you were serious about hosting an event then I think you have to start it at a time that allows the average plodders to make it to the finish in daylight.

1000% agree, July would be the optimum time, start at 0600 and run all day. The full distance of 100ish Km with all the elevation gain would take me personally an estimated 12 or 13 hrs (going on my Dingle times / condition). I'm very much an average plodder. As for the serious about hosting this in the future? I prefer the low key approach, where a group of people who like long distance runs would pull together, I enjoy the comradeship of the long runs, but the training can be lonely, so this is a semi formal long training run/low key race.

RJC wrote: »

Best of luck with it though - I think we're on the cusp of moving into the scenic ultra scene in Ireland.

Thanks and I'd agree, I like the idea of point to point runs or runs on established walking routes. The blackwater way over a few days would be great, same as the recent non-stop kerry-way.

Also, I've a live gps tracking app tested and working with a map overlay, I'll post the link on Saturday Morning so anyone interested can check where I am and how I'm doing.

Bertie

RJC

I've run some of the Scottish ultras and they are nearly all done off-road and on old drover or walking routes. They are all low-key (relatively speaking) and are all (with the exception of Glasgow to Edinburgh) run on a not-for-profit basis by runners.

Compared to Ireland the scene in Scotland is very well-developed and is made up, for the most part by 35 year+ runners who have had their fill at trying to shave 5 minutes off their marathon PB. As a result the middle of the pack is well represented. As an on-the-road runner I have found that the off-road stuff is much easier on the joints and you suffer much less collateral damage - with the exception of your feet, but that is inevitable anyway.

The way they structure their scene is that the off-season (beer season) is Dec. - Feb with the 30-35 mile ultras taking place either side of this in November and March. This allows for a taper to the season and a build up to the coming season.

Either side of these 50 - 60k races are the 40 - 50 mile races (Highland Fling in April, River Ayr Way in September) and then in the height of the summer you have a smattering of everything to allow people at various levels of ability and achievement to keep going (Catern trail (55m), Clyde Stride (40m), Speyside Trail (35m), Devil O'The Highlands (43m)).


Their main long distance race (west highland way - 95m) takes place on the longest saturday of the year with a 01:00hrs start (3 hrs of darkness and the about 19 hrs of daylight).

You can see that they structure their races around the training cycle and the amount of daylight you have available. This is sensible and allows for the least amount of fuss in regards to prepping the events.

I think things in Ireland are starting to go down the adventure race route as opposed to the long picnic/ultra marathon route. I think this is because of commercial involvement in the racing scene. I have no problem whatsoever with this and if somebody is willing to take a punt on creating a race then fair dues to them.

The only off-road ultra I've run in IRL is the Wicklow Way Ultra. The shopping list of equipment is amazing. I was running past 12-year-old scouts on that route who had to carry less than I had to.

I agree with your strategy of a slow organic build up. A few years of between 5 - 25 friends/like-minded idiots would be the best way to iron out the potential problems with various routes.

In terms of routes there are the point-to-point and looped routes. The peninsulas are the best example of the loops (Sheeps Head, Beara, Dingle, Kerry ways). Point-to-points that are mainly off-road are a bit harder (In Munster). St. Declan's way from Ardmore to Cahir would be a good point-to-point. Elevation profile and cut-off times are the two other things to consider in terms of making the routes a fun-run/death-march-from-hell.

I certainly think that rather than whinge about not having a good off-road ultra scene in Ireland we'd be better off just getting on an doing it for ourselves - at least until some insurance/health&safety nazi told us that we were breaking some law- and it is here that I applaud what you're doing. I'd be up for helping develop this scene as I can't keep driving over to Scotland.

b.harte

^^^^^^^^^
So at least I've got some ideas for next years holidays :D:D
Not been to Scotland in years.
Kids will like it, Mrs. B. Harte may not be so impressed.
I'll see how Saturday goes and we can start another thread about your ideas (see what I did there )

mr.wiggle

Especially for all us running voyeurs,
http://www.greenalp.com/RealtimeTracker/index.php?guestmode=1&viewuser=bertieharte

(He was in a nervous state this morning & forgot to post it.)

Good luck Mr.H, hope you enjoy the trek...

( Half way to Castleisland as I post )

b.harte

Nervous state my a*s!
(Actually the word order could be changed a bit :eek:)
Home, safe and sound, sore and tired.
Linky
It was fun, a bit lonely , very very quiet, and very hilly in places.
I altered the final portion on the fly because I just didn't have the legs for the last climb so took a flatter option into millstreet.
I'll post more later after a soak a feed and a sleep in that order.
And I have work tonight :eek:

Bertie

Keep the middle of July next year clear, the gathering is coming to Millstreet and they would like to host an Ultra :D:D

eliwallach

Well done!
I think this is a brilliant idea and would love to be part of it, but alas mt poor legs have trouble with the standard marathon.
Did you take a ride in a helicopter at mile 15?

b.harte

eliwallach wrote: »

Well done!
I think this is a brilliant idea and would love to be part of it, but alas my poor legs have trouble with the standard marathon.
Did you take a ride in a helicopter at mile 15?

Thanks.
Sure, it was only a few km longer than a standard marathon, you'll be grand
No helicopter at mile 15, an escalator would have been more appropriate, as I was approaching it the road looked as if it went straight up, a daunting sight indeed. Didn't take any photos which I regret but i was trying to conserve the battery on the phone for the GPS tracking app (ended up with 3% and most other apps shut down).
Now that I've had some no time to mull it over I will certainly do it again, I've 8 mins odd to find to get under 6 hours.
The route was fantastic, the scenery in places was jaw dropping (if you're into bog ) and no problems with traffic volumes or dogs. Lots of friendly locals and lots of cyclists saying a bemused hello.
A few close calls on the main Rathmore to Millstreet road with idiot drivers but otherwise a great day out.
So RQ pick the date later in the year for a re-run.

got this from googlemaps, mount eagle is to the left you can see how straight the road is in the distance cutting through the trees mid frame.
http://goo.gl/maps/Lx28l

All welcome.

Bertie

Oh yeah, I'm working next weekend so the 2nd leg to Cork might have to wait a bit longer, another training run for the Eddie Murphy Memorial?

RJC

Well done, You got a grand day for it.

I still think some off-road stuff would work well but it would require a winter of plotting routes and testing them....................idea hatches............

Oisin11178

Well done buddy, decent effort.

b.harte

RJC wrote: »

Well done, You got a grand day for it.

I still think some off-road stuff would work well but it would require a winter of plotting routes and testing them....................idea hatches............

Idea has hatched.......
My local (as in out the gate, across the road and over a ditch) trail run is Mt. Hilary full loop. it's 17km including the road section where me and Mr. Wiggle run from. It's one of the national looped walks so multiple times would make for a fun and challenging day and make it easier to manage water / gels etc.
Mt. Hillary
Each or the loops (the map make it easier to see) is 11.5km so 4 x 11.5 plus the start and finish bits 5km ish is a scenic hilly 50km, and your'e only ever about 6km from the car park. It's also gravel forrest roads so not too harsh.
Sounds like fun :D
only about 215mtr of climbing, but you get to come down again each time! :D:D
So, some time in December?

Bertie

b.harte

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Well done buddy, decent effort.

Decent?

Course record I'll have you know

PaulieC

I have an idea. Schedule it for January, call it the Ultra Gathering. Get sponsorship from Discover Ireland, invite lots of rich people from foreign and Bob's your uncle. I believe Jurek and Krupicka are old Irish names...

belcarra

cambo_gueno wrote: »

I have an idea. Schedule it for January, call it the Ultra Gathering. Get sponsorship from Discover Ireland, invite lots of rich people from foreign and Bob's your uncle. I believe Jurek and Krupicka are old Irish names...

Kilian Jornet must be Irish!!

PaulieC

belcarra wrote: »

Kilian Jornet must be Irish!!

Definitely half Irish...

mr.wiggle

D-oh, dont know how I missed that, sorry.
Think I got away with it though, as long as no smart-arse goes out of his way to highlight it ! ;-)

b.harte

Second leg:
Millstreet to Cork Butter Museum (Stop Sniggering!!).
Sunday 14th October 08:30.
Start outside the Wallis Arms.

ROUTE MAP

Anyone fancy joining me?

Bertie

ray lanigan

id love to be doing these,but im fecked with no transport

b.harte

Well that's done.
The First leg was so much easier, I suffered lots today.
LINK: Garmin connect
Felt as if I was out of steam from 30km on, didn't enjoy today a whole lot if I'm honest, pity as the scenery was fantastic for most of the route.

A big thanks to Mr.Wiggle and Charlie Byrd for joining me for some of the way, sorry about the negative mind-set lads, my wall today came early and hit me hard.

Will I do it again?

Not sure, I would gladly choose the Tralee to Millstreet leg over this leg any day.
I might feel differently tomorrow or I might just run up Mushera a few more times so it doesn't sap me as much. :D:D

High points: My family meeting me at the end, Wiggle and Charlie trying to encourage me, the views from Rylane across green rolling countryside.

Low-points: Low cloud on Mushera and stupid drivers, my lack of energy spoiling my enjoyment of the run.

Until next time :eek:

Bertie:

TFBubendorfer

Fantastic, well done!

Now make it an organised event ...

b.harte

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Now make it an organised event ...

Wheels are in motion, the local committee are having a meeting soon about ides for the gathering.
My current sentiment is that while do-able a one day misses the point of the journey along the historic road. a two-day event Tralee-Millstreet [rest overnight] Millstreet-Cork is closer in spirit to the original trade use of the road. (and better for the local economy)
Despite the pain the road left a lasting (positive) impression on me, It's nice to slow down and take in the countryside. :D:D (I was incapable of running fast today, as like most days )

Looking forward to a few weeks of low mileage speed work now before ramping again for the Eddie Murphy Memorial.

Bertie

eliwallach

Fair dues Bertie.
Was thinking of you this morning as I was doing a 14 miler. Weather was perfect, but I wasn't feeling the running love either.
Well done in getting to the Firkin Crane Centre in one piece.

b.harte

Thanks everyone.

Now that I've had a few days rest I'm itching for a re-run :eek:

This may sound a bit strange but I feel as if I have a score to settle with leg 2.

I am delighted with my time but sort of angry with my performance / behaviour.
My original idea for this was that running this particular route was a reach out to the past, a time to reflect on the hardship faced by the original users, and a time to reflect on the sheer magnitude of forging the route through the countryside, and to realise our current position isn't the worst we've been in. (It helps to have read the historical publications)

The first leg definitely felt this way, I felt humbled to be doing it, it was a nice experience and I felt as if I had a connection with the road.

I was so wrapped up in my own demons on the 2nd leg that I forgot to take stock and take in the fabric of the road, and as such felt like an interloper chasing a "completed" box on the bucket list rather then being part of the experience.

It might sound like a load of old clap-trap but I really feel as if the 2nd leg bested me in a different way, so like I said I would like a re-run to pay my respects.

And I will be doing it at a slighty slower pace with a working camera.

But not this year

Bertie

mr.wiggle

b.harte wrote: »

Now that I've had a few days rest I'm itching for a re-run :eek:

But not this year

Give me a couple of weeks notice and I'll do it with you,
see if I can conquer Mushera !!??
( and only if you promise not to O.D. on the gels!!! )