Brothers with the same Christian names??

Elizabetha

Would parents have given siblings the same christian names?
So for example....

Michael Muldoon marries Cecelia Geoghagan
Their childrens names are as follows

Margaret Muldoon b 24 Nov 1844
Anne Muldoon b Feb 1847
James Muldoon b 1851
James Muldoon b 1852
Catherine Muldoon b 1852
Michael Muldoon b 1859
David Muldoon b 1859
Michael Muldoon b 1863

Ok maybe if a child died and they decide to name the next one after the deceased child, I could understand that but if both are still alive?? as I think is the case of the two lads called Michael. The Michael of 1863 married a Frances Thornton and the 1859 Michael, I think, married Anne donoghue

Could this happen??

shanew

There's two James also ... I'd say the first died, and they reused the names. I've seen this a number of times, including in a grandfather's family... there was a gap of (8 years) in that case.


Shane

Elizabetha

I dont think one of the michaels died though as the 1863 Michael went on to marry my Great Great grandmother and the 1859 one went on to marry a Ann Donaghoe..... really confusing....

shanew

problem with early RC records is that they dont include deaths - so difficult to find out for certain, but I dont think it's very likely that they had living children with the same names.


If you have two Michael Muldoon marriages, the I think you might be dealing with two different families..


S.

Elizabetha

You're most likely right Shane, maybe cousins

jeni

ive heard somewere before, that people used to go by their second names (christening name) i actually know a few people who actually still do, maybe it could be that ????

Elizabetha

Thats true aswell Jeni.... frustrating trying to work it out!

leeroybrown

Two children with the same first name would strike me as very unusual. As pointed out above the more likely answer is the infant deaths and the re-use of the first name. Infant deaths would have been quite common and until the latter part of the 20th century it would have been common practice in a lot of Ireland to effectively forget about the child and never talk of them again. Re-using the first name for the 'replacement' son or daughter would have been quite common.

shanew

leeroybrown wrote: »

Two children with the same first name ....
Re-using the first name for the 'replacement' son or daughter would have been quite common....

especially if the name was in honor of an ancestor i.e. a naming pattern. Not always strictly followed, but if it was, then then sons would be named after father's father, mother's father then the father etc - so wouldn't have been good to leave someone out..



S.

Elizabetha

Siblings using the same names for their own children really adds to the puzzle too.... 3 siblings from the one family could have each called one of their sons 'Michael' so you get 3 cousins called Michael..... makes it very difficult

P. Breathnach

Elizabetha wrote: »

Siblings using the same names for their own children really adds to the puzzle too.... 3 siblings from the one family could have each called one of their sons 'Michael' so you get 3 cousins called Michael..... makes it very difficult

That's very common. I'd suppose the father of those siblings was also a Michael.

Elizabetha

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's very common. I'd suppose the father of those siblings was also a Michael.

Yes, just makes it sooo hard lol

VicWynne

Just to make it more confusing - I have two aunts, sisters of my father, with the same name registered.
The older aunts birth was registered, with her name, before my great-grandmother came over form the UK. That aunt was then christened using her grandmothers name.
Some years later, my younger aunt was born. My grandmother liked the name so much she reused it, both in the civil registration and the baptism. :eek:

Therefore, it is possible, though unlikely, that there were two Micheals alive in the same family.;)

binxeo

The only thing I can think of is that they were both christened Michael but one could have been known by his second name. I know my father was christened, John Denis but has always been called Denis and he uses Denis on all his legal documents, so maybe one of the Michaels was Michael John but he was know as John and the other know as Michael. Just my thinking on it but I could be way off.

Elizabetha

Thats possible too Binxeo, the more I research my family the less this sort of things surprise me..... it really was a different world back then

R.Dub.Fusilier

my mother had 3 sisters called Mary. one was Mary Josephine known as Josie born 1928, next Mary born 1936 known as Mary , or big Mary and next born was Mary born in late 1940s known as little Mary. All lived. my mother also had 2 brothers called Robert , both died young.

testicle

Could be something like Patrick Joseph and Patrick, one being PJ and the other being Pat ?

annieoburns

The marriage record of the two Michaels would give details incl address and occupation of their respective fathers so might show if cousins rather than brothers.

The use of Mary was a religious thing to give the protection of Mary, mother of Jesus to the person so common to have it somewhere in the christian name, even boys could have Mary as a second name. A confirmation name was another name taken by a person (but never used again! Mine was Mary Bernadette!) Again a religious thing to reuse name of deceased child to give the second child the protection of the sibling already in heaven etc.

MMUldoon5

Hi Elizabeth,
I am currently working on the Muldoon family tree and the James Muldoon born 1852 was my grandfather. From research in Mountmelick Church I was given to understand (maybe incorrectly) that when a baby died the following surviving baby was given the same name so I assumed therefore that James (1851) & Michael (1859) died in infancy. James married my grandmother Honoria Mooney in 1890 & died in 1935. They lived in Cappabeg, Rosenallis and 10 of their 15 children survived to adulthood. I understand Margaret married Robert Martin and lived in Derry, Rosenallis. I also have a list of godparents for all the [EMAIL="1840/60@0"]1840/60[/EMAIL] Muldoons except the aforementioned James & Michael. Any additional information on the family would be appreciated. Godparents for 1863 Michael were John Boland & Abigail Dunne.


in for

Elizabetha wrote: »

Would parents have given siblings the same christian names?
So for example....

Michael Muldoon marries Cecelia Geoghagan
Their childrens names are as follows

Margaret Muldoon b 24 Nov 1844
Anne Muldoon b Feb 1847
James Muldoon b 1851
James Muldoon b 1852
Catherine Muldoon b 1852
Michael Muldoon b 1859
David Muldoon b 1859
Michael Muldoon b 1863

Ok maybe if a child died and they decide to name the next one after the deceased child, I could understand that but if both are still alive?? as I think is the case of the two lads called Michael. The Michael of 1863 married a Frances Thornton and the 1859 Michael, I think, married Anne donoghue

Could this happen??

MMUldoon5

P.S. Do you happen to know who their parents were??

MMUldoon5 wrote: »

Hi Elizabeth,
I am currently working on the Muldoon family tree and the James Muldoon born 1852 was my grandfather. From research in Mountmelick Church I was given to understand (maybe incorrectly) that when a baby died the following surviving baby was given the same name so I assumed therefore that James (1851) & Michael (1859) died in infancy. James married my grandmother Honoria Mooney in 1890 & died in 1935. They lived in Cappabeg, Rosenallis and 10 of their 15 children survived to adulthood. I understand Margaret married Robert Martin and lived in Derry, Rosenallis. I also have a list of godparents for all the [EMAIL="1840/60@0"]1840/60[/EMAIL] Muldoons except the aforementioned James & Michael. Any additional information on the family would be appreciated. Godparents for 1863 Michael were John Boland & Abigail Dunne.


in for

MMUldoon5

According to Family Search, Catherine Muldoon, daughter of Michael Muldoon & Anne Donohoe was born in 1871. Having regard to the dates it's extremely unlikely that Michael (1859-son of Michael & Cecelia) is the father as he was just 12 years old in 1871. I'm still of the opinion that 1859 Michael died in infancy.

Elizabetha

MMUldoon5 wrote: »

According to Family Search, Catherine Muldoon, daughter of Michael Muldoon & Anne Donohoe was born in 1871. Having regard to the dates it's extremely unlikely that Michael (1859-son of Michael & Cecelia) is the father as he was just 12 years old in 1871. I'm still of the opinion that 1859 Michael died in infancy.

Sorry MMuldoon5, Ive been away on hols and didnt have internet connection.... bear with me a few hours and I will get all my muldoon info together and give you all I have found.......

Elizabetha

PS MMuldoon5
The Michael born in 1863 was my G.G grandfather....

MMUldoon5

Elizabetha wrote: »

PS MMuldoon5
The Michael born in 1863 was my G.G grandfather....

Thanks for getting back to me & I look forward to receiving information on your great grandfather Michael Muldoon. His brother James Muldoon was my grandfather and I have compiled a fair bit of information on him and his family and can forward copies if you are interested.

Elizabetha

Yes am very interested to see what you have found.....

Elizabetha

MMUldoon5 wrote: »

Thanks for getting back to me & I look forward to receiving information on your great grandfather Michael Muldoon. His brother James Muldoon was my grandfather and I have compiled a fair bit of information on him and his family and can forward copies if you are interested.

Hi,
Bear with me as I try to get as much of the info as I have to you over the next few messages....

Michael Muldoon & Cecelia Geoghagan

Their children.....

Margaret Muldoon b 24th November 1844
Anne Muldoon b 11 Feb 1847
James Muldoon b 22 April 1851
James Muldoon b 10 June 1852
Bridget Muldoon b 29 August
Michael Muldoon b 13 November 1859
David Muldoon b 13 november 1859
Michael Muldoon b 1863
Catherine Muldoon june 1852


Michael Muldoon (b 1863) I believe to be my GG grandfather and he married Frances Thornton in 1894.

Their children were

Cecelia b 1896 (she lived at my house with us when I was a child)
Frances 11 september 1897
Michael 13 feb 1899 (he died in 1902)
Annie 1901

In the 1901 census the little family are Residents of a House 7 in Ballylea (Rathsallagh, Wicklow). Michael Muldoon was a railway signal man then and the house they are living in comes with the job I think.

Frances or Fanny (the mother) died just after Annie was born. We believed at first she died in chidbirth because of what my g aunt Cecelia who lived with us said but she was very young when she died so we dont really know what happened. I thought I found her registered death in 1903 but after I spoke to BDM Im not so sure. I do have a coppy of her birth cert though....

Heres the sad bit...... after Fanny Muldoon nee Thornton died, the father Michael Muldoon put the 3 remaining children into Birr orphanage, thats where they are in the 1911 census. Was Michael so unable to cope after Fannys death that the girls were put into an orphanage? In the same census there is a Michael Muldoon of the right age with the same birth place (queens county) living in Fleet street dublin working as a caretaker, I think this is the girls father, the census also states that he is a widower. I cant help but wonder why instead of the girls being put in an ophanage could extended family not have helped Michael Muldoon cope.... his siblings or even Frances Thorntons siblings or cousins.... I know things were hard and 3 extra mouths would have been a burden....


I have records of lots of Muldoons at the same time and same place though as Michael Muldoon and Frances Thornton, there seemed to be a lot of michael muldoons.....

I hadnt got any Godparent names for the Michael of 1863.... I have John Coffey and Anne Thompson for the Michael of 1859

For James 1852 I have Con Malone and Mary Reynolds but none for the James of 1851

Do you know where Honoria Mooney was born?

My research shows me that Celia Muldoon (nee Geoghagan) died 11 Jan 1885 with cirrhosis of the liver, her husband was still alive. Also I have a Michael Muldoon in cappabeg laois who died in 1894 from heart disease, he was a widower. Could these be our Michael Muldoon and Cecelia Geoghagan?

I also have a Catherine Muldoon born 1st June 1852 in Mountmellick father is Michael Muldoon and mother is Cecilia Muldoon, did your James Muldoon have a twin? My G aunt who lived with us (Michael Muldoon of 1863 daughter) often spoke about an aunt Kate, could this be Catherine Muldoon?

MMUldoon5

Hi Elizabeth,
Will get back to you soon as I've had a chance to study, analyse & compare the information you sent. Thank you.

MMUldoon5

P.S.
Apologies, but due to circumstances it will probably be next week before I get around to studying and absorbing all the info you sent. I will also need to compare it with what I have here. Incidentally, it is my husband Tom Muldoon who is grandson of James Muldoon but it's me who's doing the research etc. Slán.

MMUldoon5

Hi Elizabeth,
I sent a private reply last week but have no way of knowing if it reached you
Margaret M

MMUldoon5

Hi Elizabeth,
Apologies but I pressed the send button in error. As I said in my Private reply, a lot of my information was contributed by cousins who like to retain their privacy but if you contact me privately I will forward what I have.

MMUldoon5

P.S. It appears you are second cousin, once removed to my husband, Tom Muldoon

Elizabetha

Hi Margaret, I didnt notice I had a PM, sorry, I will have a read of what you have sent me and PM you back!

MMUldoon5

Thank you.

MMUldoon5

Hi again,
A few minutes ago an e-mail address popped up on my screen but disappeared (or more likely I deleted) before I had a chance to respond. I think the name Karen appeared somewhere in the address. Is that you?? If so please, please send again and I will be more careful.

Elizabetha

Done!

GerardKeating

Elizabetha wrote: »

Would parents have given siblings the same christian names?
So for example....

Michael Muldoon marries Cecelia Geoghagan
Their childrens names are as follows

Margaret Muldoon b 24 Nov 1844
Anne Muldoon b Feb 1847
James Muldoon b 1851
James Muldoon b 1852
Catherine Muldoon b 1852
Michael Muldoon b 1859
David Muldoon b 1859
Michael Muldoon b 1863

Ok maybe if a child died and they decide to name the next one after the deceased child, I could understand that but if both are still alive?? as I think is the case of the two lads called Michael. The Michael of 1863 married a Frances Thornton and the 1859 Michael, I think, married Anne donoghue

Could this happen??

I have a sister in Law (not Irish) whom names her two sons the same first name, but differnt middle names, they are known by their middle names.

irish_bhoy09

MMUldoon5 wrote: »

Hi Elizabeth,
I am currently working on the Muldoon family tree and the James Muldoon born 1852 was my grandfather. From research in Mountmelick Church I was given to understand (maybe incorrectly) that when a baby died the following surviving baby was given the same name so I assumed therefore that James (1851) & Michael (1859) died in infancy. James married my grandmother Honoria Mooney in 1890 & died in 1935. They lived in Cappabeg, Rosenallis and 10 of their 15 children survived to adulthood. I understand Margaret married Robert Martin and lived in Derry, Rosenallis. I also have a list of godparents for all the [EMAIL="1840/60@0"]1840/60[/EMAIL] Muldoons except the aforementioned James & Michael. Any additional information on the family would be appreciated. Godparents for 1863 Michael were John Boland & Abigail Dunne.


in for

hi,i live in cappabeg rosenallis,i knew jack muldoon but he died a few years ago,nobody lives in that house now

blt1953

Hi all

I don't know if you are all still around on the boards. I have just found this thread as I am also researching Michael Muldoon and Fanny Thornton. Thank you for all the info about the family.

I am helping a friend who is the great grandson of Francis aka Fanny Muldoon born 1897 who was shown in the children's home in 1911. Small world.

Elizabetha

Hey blt, Frances was my Great granny, lived to 104, PM me

MMUldoon5

Hello blt, I have done a fair bit of research on Muldoon Family and am more than willing to share. If you send me a private message, including your e-mail address I will forward whatever I have. My research is really confined to the Muldoon family. I expect Elizabetha will have lots on the Thorntons. Good to see your name again Elizabetha. Hope all's well with you.