Remote 3G Installation

CDSM101

Hi All,

I'm new to boards so go easy on me

I just wanted to share a 3G installation I built in order to improve my desperate Three signal.

Like a lot of People on the NB Scheme, I was sold a contract by Three promising that my area was covered. Maybe I was silly for signing up so easily, but I hadn't much choice given there was no chance of dsl or fixed wireless in my area.

Sure enough my signal was crap since the get go and I was just another angry Three customer!

Anyway long story short I built one of these:




I haven't looked back since!

Without getting into the detail of how it works, I now have excellent signal strength all the time. My only limit is contention really.

I achieve speeds between 1M (peak time) to 5+M (off peak)



So after all that gloating I was wondering are there many people out in the sticks with 3g signal problems or was I just living in a black spot or what!?

I've had a couple of people interested in one of these for their own place and that got me thinking.. €€ :cool:

Wireless net

nice setup, how does the b260A router connect to the antenna at the top of the pole? surely the connector lead running from the back of the modem, to the antenna must be long?


if you had the 3 broadband with the 60gb cap and leave the modem on all the time, do you know if the net connection stays open all the time, so always connected to the internet? or do you just power on the modem when you want to use it? is that POE i see you using too?

the three B260A modems come unlocked, i have a few here and they are all unlocked.. would you mind posting up the kit list, and prices of the stuff you bought for this setup?


thanks

-=al=-

Good for you taking it into yer own hands! here's what i had before my router went kaputt



Stuck it on the roof then ran a cable from it into the main router in the house so had 2 routers with wifi going on... used them both for wifi and worked great

as for keeping the router on, it pretty much stayed connected the whole time i had it on almost 24/7 and it was decent and reliable enough it disconnected the odd time but is reasonably reliable for what your getting

jbkenn

Fair play, for the laugh, you should send these pictures and detail your outlay to Communications Minister Pat "Rabbitte in the headlights" and the assorted deadbeats in Comreg, you never know, there might be some change left over from the €78 million 3 got for this fiasco, or even better still they might give you a consultancy job instead of Analysis Mason,
http://www.analysysmason.com/about-us/news/Newsletter/Delivering-on-the-Digital-Agenda-for-Europe-lessons-from-Ireland/

We might actually see some results.

Amalgam

CDSM101 wrote: »

Anyway long story short I built one of these:

I haven't looked back since!

Very nice. Where did you source the main box with the clear side?

Edit: I love -=al=-'s solution too. A fine bit of tech bodging.

-=al=-

jbkenn wrote: »

Fair play, for the laugh, you should send these pictures and detail your outlay to Communications Minister Pat "Rabbitte in the headlights" and the assorted deadbeats in Comreg, you never know, there might be some change left over from the €78 million 3 got for this fiasco, or even better still they might give you a consultancy job instead of Analysis Mason,
http://www.analysysmason.com/about-us/news/Newsletter/Delivering-on-the-Digital-Agenda-for-Europe-lessons-from-Ireland/

We might actually see some results.

Free waterproof tupperware box and ladder with each NBS contract... They'd do it and all I bet!

iwantbroadband

Awesome post CDSM101. I have a 11dbi directional aerial on the chimney with 5m of cable running into a Huawei E156G, plugged into a Dovado UMR router for wifi. Took the signal from 11% with constant dropouts to 43% and rock solid.

You can't underestimate the power of a good aerial if you're in a poor signal area. The NBS money would have been better spent on decent aerial installations instead of useless 3G repeaters.

-=al=-

Yeah the three huawei's are still unlocked.. excellenteeeeeeeeeeeeee

Instead of putting the router on the roof I may just sort out an antenna and see what the story is, I'd rather keep the router indoors but meteor service works far better indoors than 3 ever did

One of the best things is having the extra network features but the fact it can connect automatic to the network instead of on demand, speeds it up slightly

CDSM101

Hi All,

Few more details on my 3G solution. The pole in the picture above is actually 200m from the house.

I can't get a good signal at the house because I'm on the shadow side of a hill from the base station. I'd have to go very high up to get over that hill!

I used the fresnel zone calculations to pick the optimal spot to place the mast where I could get true line of sight. Google earth is great for this stuff.

There's a 5GHz wireless link between the house and mast using two Mikrotik SXTs http://www.irishwireless.net/289-mikrotik-sxt-5hnd-5ghz-cpe.html




With a zoomed in shot you can see the other router just below the crow!



Oh and thats not a natural gap in trees. What a pain that was to cut back :rolleyes:

The B260A is mounted in a box I got here: http://cpcireland.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=EN82000

The picture was before I put the mast up. That box is high up away from any grubby hands!

eirator

OP, few questions, how do you power the remote connection and what does the three coverage map indicate?

Great set up - I have something similar but can't get line of site to a mast anywhere so have to make do with a sweet spot 200m from the house, (10% signal strength showing on the router) no idea how it gets a signal because nearest mast is the other side of a hill as are the next too nearest. Three still insist that coverage is good in the area but have to say there no coverage from anyone else either at least vodafone admit there is no coverage here on their maps.

I'm using a 3G router and have just put a high gain (18db ?) directional antenna on it for the Wireless link and use a cheap (12db ?) desktop omnidirectional antenna at the home end (Windows shows 3 bars for the connection). All very cheaply done, and everything bought from eBay and amazon for well under 100euro including dongle. Dongle is in a plastic bag on the end of 4m USB cable which allows for the best positioning of the dongle. Location is limited somewhat by the nearest power supply.

So that takes me from no connection in an area (not nbs) to 10% signal strength and 1.5 -2 mbps speeds late at night and around 400 kbps during the day but rarely anything at peak times during the evenings.

CDSM101

Hi eirator. Power is a big challenge alright. The cheapest option for me was to just run low voltage cheap cable along an electric fence.

Solar panels would be nicer but very expensive!

I'm turning on and off the power to the mast as I need the internet. The power is switched on and off via a keyfob remote.

I have a yagi antenna pointing directly at the three mast 2km away.

Your setup is very similar alright. Good job!

The house end of my 5GHz link is connected to a wireless router. As far as the wireless router is concerned, it doesn't "see" the link between the house and B260A.

eirator

CDSM101 wrote: »

Hi eirator. Power is a big challenge alright. The cheapest option for me was to just run low voltage cheap cable along an electric fence.

Solar panels would be nicer but very expensive!

I'm turning on and off the power to the mast as I need the internet. The power is switched on and off via a keyfob remote.

I have a yagi antenna pointing directly at the three mast 2km away.

Your setup is very similar alright. Good job!

The house end of my 5GHz link is connected to a wireless router. As far as the wireless router is concerned, it doesn't "see" the link between the house and B260A.

I use a neighbors power, thought I was going to lose it when the neighbors changed a few months back but the new guy there seems to be a frustrated Electical Tradesman. He only went and rewired all the garden wiring (including the excessive outside lighting :rolleyes: ) and put me in a waterproof socket on its own circuit (old one was mixed up with the outdoor lighting, house heating and septic tank pump) right next to my routers waterproof box . He even put in a socket with a neon power indicator so I could check the power was on from my side. Good Man!

One upgrade I was going to make on mine as the router is in a massive waterproof box was put in a cheap lidl type remote power switch as I need to walk around to the neighbors house and through their garden 2 or 3 times a week to reboot the system when the dongle hangs and a reboot won't get a connection - I try and time that when they are out so they don't see me too often.

I'm still thinking that I'd pick up the same sweet spot at the top of a 20ft telegraph pole but at less than 100m from the house so PoE would work but at that distance I could run mains all the way to the unit and put a home plug at each end - another project . I've even an idea of running a bits box set up (ie cheap and expendable) on the nearest Eircom pole using PoE . I've some other possible locations now I know how far I can bounce a signal but need to catch the relevant landowners at the right time when they are in a good mood. I've proof of concept from a really good location about 400m away in the oposite direction to the one I use at the moment but I can't expect everyone to give me free access to power although I don't know why as I'm expected to run a local farmers electric fencer in my garage free of charge.

My nearest mast is over 5km away, and no LOS so bit of a miracle I get any signal at all. Although I get some real strange sh!t when I go around the area testing signal strength and get a full 5 bars 400m from the house (no where near a power source so can't make use of it ) and the nearest mast to that location is about 8km away LOS . To get LOS from the house I'd need a 300ft high pole :rolleyes:.

The current set up probably suffers from cell shrinkage issues in an area with very few users any more and I'm screwed. Luckly after 3 blitzed the area with door to door sales a few years back they got a really bad reputation so now most of the people I know that had a contract have given up with 3 and my connection has become viable for longer each day. At worst two years back it was only useable at night and early morning now its only really bad after about 4pm and often just useable (but not much faster than dialup) even then.

btw Your setup looks 100% more professional than mine

Wireless net

I have the nextivity RS2 3g signal booster, it is the brand new model designed to boost 3g speeds for mobile broadband and phone usage too,

comprises of two boxes, smaller than the original nextivity RS1.


the RS2 is meant to cover 13,000 or so square feet.. you place one unit at the window, or sweet spot, and then the other unit, where you want the improved signal.

there is a 5GHZ link then created between the 2 boxes, and the signal is then rebroadcast on 3g, from the second box..

works great on the iphone 4s , and turns 1 bar signal into 5 bars signal,
assuming that you can get a reasonable signal at a window or sweet spot.. it does a reasonable job on mobile broadband usage also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqILclBCeZ0

Wireless net

CDSM101 wrote: »

Hi eirator. Power is a big challenge alright. The cheapest option for me was to just run low voltage cheap cable along an electric fence.

Solar panels would be nicer but very expensive!

I'm turning on and off the power to the mast as I need the internet. The power is switched on and off via a keyfob remote.

I have a yagi antenna pointing directly at the three mast 2km away.

Your setup is very similar alright. Good job!

The house end of my 5GHz link is connected to a wireless router. As far as the wireless router is concerned, it doesn't "see" the link between the house and B260A.

you could sort power quite easily for these devices, do they operate at 12v? a good deep cycle lead acid battery, and solar panel ( about €100) with a charge regulator, would keep that battery topped up , as the comms gear wouldn't draw that much power.

the b260A's ac charger output is 5v at 2A so its doable, i got my solar panels in maplins, and they have a good range of them.

CDSM101

Yeah I considered asking for power from the house that the mast is just behind, but its a parochial house to complicate matters. I think some donations would have been required! :rolleyes:

Cell breathing is pretty annoying alight. I had big problems with that before I put up the mast. Used to drop to edge on a busy evening :mad:

Found that once I moved from a dongle to the B260A there was big improvements. I would recommend it.

Never liked the Idea of the 3G boosters really. It's handy if you have more than one 3g device in your house or use a dongle, but otherwise I prefer just picking up the signal and dispensing the Internet through wifi.

you could sort power quite easily for these devices, do they operate at 12v? a good deep cycle lead acid battery, and solar panel ( about €100) with a charge regulator, would keep that battery topped up , as the comms gear wouldn't draw that much power.

the b260A's ac charger output is 5v at 2A so its doable, i got my solar panels in maplins, and they have a good range of them.

There was two reasons why I didn't use solar panels. One was that it would be easy to power the B260A and SXT in the sumer, but to get enough power in winter would be a struggle. I calculated I'd need a minimum 60W solar panel. The price of that and a battery could buy me a lot of electricity off the ESB!

The second reason is that I don't want to put too much money sitting up in a field out of site, free for anyone to take. Unfortunately it's a big problem in Ireland. Leave anything shiny lying around and it won't last long!

cuculainn

Hi Guys,

Have been reading your posts with interest as it looks like I will be going down the 3g NBS road.

I know before I even start that it is going to be frustrating.

So am planning on setting up as best a system as possible from the outset.

So I have a few questions and hope you can help


I plan on putting the directional aerial on my shed, but am just wondering how I connect this to the dongle?

Also there are currently only two options for dongles on Three a usb stick and the wifi dongle. What is the best dongle to use? should I buy an unlocked one separately?

I plan to have the dongle in the shed connected to something like the Dovado router. From this router I would bring the signal wired (cat 6) into the house and connect another router for wireless/wired in the house

What do people think of this setup?

Is there anything I should/should not do?

I know I will still be getting crap midband and probably only able to use one device at a time but at least I might get a reasonable service


Your help

Would be appreciated

eirator

tbh I'd want to get it working first before spending any serious money on the installation.

Check 3g-modem.wetpaint.com for 3G Dongle unlocking and antenna locations on dongles, many have the connector but its often hidden under the plastic on the main board so you can't use it unless you bust the modem open. Keep the antenna lead as short as possible with the minimum number of adaptors (pref none) and use good quality cable (not the thin stuff most ebay antennas come with). In a shed use a long USB cable to put the dongle near to the antenna.

A suggested cheap setup is TP-Link or Edimax router located as near the best signal as you can get, you might need waterproof box if this is outside. Then put the dongle on a 4m long USB extension cable and mount it for the strongest signal again waterproofing may be necessary (plastic bag is often all it needs). Connect the router back to the house with home plugs - total cost around 120euro.

If you are doing CAT5 to a shed then PoE (Power over Ethernet) might be a good idea as then you can switch the power off and reset the router and dongle without going out to the shed, so replace the home plugs in my cheap setup suggestion with PoE.

cuculainn

Eirator,

Thanks for the reply,

from looking at it I think The USB stick e353s would be an ok option.

I would just need to confirm that the router would be compatible with it.

As for my set up in the shed, I would mount the aerial on the external wall, ( I think I know the direction of the 3mast) and have the USB/router on the internal wall with a short a cable as possible. Then I would run from the router with cat 5 into the house.
The power over ethernet sounds like a good option for remotely resetting the router.

I was going to put a timer switch on the router to automatically restart at like 5am everynight!!

eirator

Try again, the e353 that 3 supply doesn't work with any 3G router and never will.

3 will never give you your money back (at least not without a fight) so thats why I say use a cheap unlocked dongle to start with, anything that will do up to 7.2Mbps should be fine. Also a prepay SIM is a good start and leaves your options open.

Edit:Last post on page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79770061 which came from http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1924498

cuculainn

eirator wrote: »

Try again, the e353 that 3 supply doesn't work with any 3G router and never will.

3 will never give you your money back (at least not without a fight) so thats why I say use a cheap unlocked dongle to start with, anything that will do up to 7.2Mbps should be fine. Also a prepay SIM is a good start and leaves your options open.

Are you kidding? do they do something to it to prevent it from being used with 3g router?

I was checking out the zoom 3g router and the E353 is listed as compatible with certain versions of router firmware. This is the link


I better pick up an old unlocked one so!


Thanks for your help and sorry for all the questions

eirator

cuculainn wrote: »

Are you kidding? do they do something to it to prevent it from being used with 3g router?

The excuse would be that the e353 is an easier user experience when used in a computer, see the link I added in the edit above.

To make matters worse there are about 4 versions of the e353 some of which work but the HiLink version that 3 sell is one that definitely won't work with any router.

Orrid

B260A is a very good box. It's being discontinued, so buy it while you can!

As rough rule a decent router + external aerial up high should improve your signal. Not always a faster speed but usually gives more stability, less drop outs etc.

The thing about boosters is that they have to have a signal to work with..no signal no boost!

bijou

-=al=- wrote: »

Good for you taking it into yer own hands! here's what i had before my router went kaputt



Stuck it on the roof then ran a cable from it into the main router in the house so had 2 routers with wifi going on... used them both for wifi and worked great

as for keeping the router on, it pretty much stayed connected the whole time i had it on almost 24/7 and it was decent and reliable enough it disconnected the odd time but is reasonably reliable for what your getting

Hiya -=al=-

I have a question about this set-up if you don't mind.

I'm planning on doing something similar with my router & dongle (and running a cat5 cable from them down to another router in the house) and was wondering how the equipment might cope with the cold/freezing weather??

bijou

eirator

bijou wrote: »

Hiya -=al=-

I have a question about this set-up if you don't mind.

I'm planning on doing something similar with my router & dongle (and running a cat5 cable from them down to another router in the house) and was wondering how the equipment might cope with the cold/freezing weather??

bijou

Cold weather is not a bother, mine was working oustide all through the bad winter the year before last and is still working fine.

Damp and condensation are your biggest problems.

I found the boxes that they sell for keeping the power sockets dry when used outside for Christmas lights very handy but a bit more expensive than a plastic cornflakes box

Edit> This is the sort of waterproof enclosure I was thinking of http://www.festive-lights.com/accessories/dribox-weatherproof-connection-box.html I think Woodies had them for 20euro or less and was thinking of using one if anyone asked me to do another remote install. Only downside is the box isn't designed to be screwed down (or up).

bijou

eirator wrote: »

Cold weather is not a bother, mine was working oustide all through the bad winter the year before last and is still working fine.

Damp and condensation are your biggest problems.

I found the boxes that they sell for keeping the power sockets dry when used outside for Christmas lights very handy but a bit more expensive than a plastic cornflakes box

Edit> This is the sort of waterproof enclosure I was thinking of http://www.festive-lights.com/accessories/dribox-weatherproof-connection-box.html I think Woodies had them for 20euro or less and was thinking of using one if anyone asked me to do another remote install. Only downside is the box isn't designed to be screwed down (or up).

Thanks eirator,

I'm gonna give it a try.....

Was thinking about condensation too and thought about those little bags you get when you buy electronics etc... the ones with the little balls in - aren't they supposed to draw moisture away??

http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=desiccant+bag&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&rlz=1C2GGGE_enIE351&biw=1333&bih=770&tbm=isch&tbnid=Fcy21l1URi65YM:&imgrefurl=http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/7304598/silica_gel_desiccant_bag_package.html&docid=VgNHQPPtb2qMxM&imgurl=http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/1198193/14490283/0/1283159298/silica_gel_desiccant_bag_package.jpg&w=1024&h=768&ei=44XwUIr5JoKShgeb3oCgDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=811&vpy=123&dur=89&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=127&ty=106&sig=108122822598851547111&page=1&tbnh=134&tbnw=163&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0,i:94

eirator

Difficult to know how to deal with damp and condensation because there are lots of little tricks that can help but all situation dependent. I always try and mount a waterproof box on a vertical surface and mount the devices inside (using small amounts of non conducting foam as spacers) so any condensation will not affect them much and end up in the bottom of the box away from the electrics. Some boxes benefit from have a small drainage hole in the bottom but with the DriBoxes I suggested not making any extra holes and keep them totally sealed. My expreince of an always on 3G router system is that the router and PSU are creating a bit of heat in a very small space so there isn't any condensation, if you are switching off say at night it might be worth monitoring more for condenstation just in case.

I like the DriBox as its a get you up quick and safe way of working, I might not use one in the long term but might be handy to protect your gear during a proof of concept phase while you decide if its worth spending money on an expensive mountable waterproof housing (about €100 for the unit I'd like to have) or you can go the other way and keep it cheap and simple like -=al=-.

I have the dongle outside the waterproof box on a USB cable and its just inside a plastic bag ( I change the bag every couple of months) and taped to a pole.

bijou

Thanks for that eirator.

Well I'm going to have a go at this and see what happens.... Have been hanging outside the bedroom window upstairs most of the afternoon/evening :eek: and been getting really good results:

http://speedtest.net/result/2429994232.png

http://speedtest.net/result/2429980759.png

Never seen anything like these before!!! And I ain't complaining lol

CDSM101

Hi Everybody,

Just thought I'd let you know that I have moved house recently and my 3G equipment is sitting Idle. Brought it with me to new house. Everything still works well (see pictures from first post).

Thinking of selling it as I now have UPC.

I know some of you want to keep the cost down, but if anyone is looking for a robust setup, let me know.

I'll probably put an ad up on Adverts.

Oh and as for moisture building in a box, the best thing to do is to drill 3 or 4 small wholes in the bottom of the box, where any water could build. It will drain any water from condensation etc. It's also best to leave the modem on all the time, as its heat will help keep it dry.

bijou

Well, we have given it a try......... we'll see how it goes

[URL="[URL=http://www.speedtest.net][IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/2466623328.png[/IMG][/URL]"][/url]

CDSM101

Just in case any of you are interested, I'm going to try to find a new home for my setup: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=80281800

It did damn good while it was in service. :cool: I shed a tear to see it go!

-=al=-

bijou wrote: »

Hiya -=al=-

I have a question about this set-up if you don't mind.

I'm planning on doing something similar with my router & dongle (and running a cat5 cable from them down to another router in the house) and was wondering how the equipment might cope with the cold/freezing weather??

bijou

Never had a problem with the weather once the box is waterproof and can't move... It's on 24/7 and never had issues with the heat or cold... I think the last router I had went awol cause the power supply got wet, which was housed rather lamely on my part separately... But it's all in a new box with the power inside... much better set up.. I'll get a new pic if I can

And yep I run a cable from the router on the roof into the LAN of a TP-Link router and works perfectly. The Huawei router on the roof is set up to 192.168.1.1 as an open network for guests to the house or whatever and the main router at 192.168.1.2 as my own secured network for devices, laptops and pcs etc with static ips

It's Very cheap viable option and easy to set-up for a more consistent 3g setup. I just drilled 2 holes in an airtight box I got for storing rashers or some sort of Tupperware thing Galtee had for Rashers ages ago and works good!

I toyed with the idea of running an external antenna from the roof and keeping the router inside but never got around to it... The Huawei router on the roof is basically a glorified antenna