Getting Mad at the Starter

Kevinmarkham

Looking for some feedback from anyone who's interested. I've been having some debate with a few people about this blog I put up last night, laying in to the Starter at Enniscrone. My playing partners and I were stunned by his attitude when we turned up to play as part of the Atlantic Coast Challenge.

Put simply, we were late but he made a mountain out of a molehill.

Anyone else endured this sort of treatment? More to the point, anyone side with the Starter? My take on it is one-sided, I grant you, but my playing partners think I haven't adequately described just how rude he was.

Thanks

Whyner

Sounds like you played into his hands and made his day. Silent treatment would have done his head in.

Never had a problem with a starter myself.

Him as a person rather than a starter would be the bigger problem. Find out who gave him the job and have a word with them. Sure you're in with the captain and have some clout.

PARlance

Why did you turn up late Kevin???

Great blog, am fit to kill that starter myself now!
Can't believe you managed 3 linx rounds with the one ball

BoardsMember

I'd almost head down there to wind him up, he sounds like a complete twat.

GreeBo

In his defense, its his job to keep the competition running on time, for everyones sake. Its a thankless job as people dont realise that each group taking an extra minute fecking about adds up to an hour by the end of the day and its hsi fault.

You ringing the club explaining you are late has nothing to do with him. He gets sheet with times and names on it, you arrived after your time, thats all he knows.
I'd apologise for being late and just tee off and say nothing, you were in the wrong and he was doing his job (you could be the 20th group to be late that day for all you know)

BoardsMember

GreeBo wrote: »

In his defense, its his job to keep the competition running on time, for everyones sake. Its a thankless job as people dont realise that each group taking an extra minute fecking about adds up to an hour by the end of the day and its hsi fault.

You ringing the club explaining you are late has nothing to do with him. He gets sheet with times and names on it, you arrived after your time, thats all he knows.
I'd apologise for being late and just tee off and say nothing, you were in the wrong and he was doing his job (you could be the 20th group to be late that day for all you know)

His job is to keep the thing running, and yes they were late. The issue is how he handled the situation. Its not an easy job, and there are lots of people who are not suited to it. This fellow would appear to be one such person. As a member of staff of the golf club he also has a responsibility to comport himself in an appropriate manner. Poncing around, pointing pen or finger at people, and behaving in a way that is bound to piss people off is no good for anyone. He's probably one of two or three people employed by the golf club that visitors will meet, that should be taken into account in his behaviour if the club are aiming to leave customers with a positive experience. We had a starter in our place that we had to get rid of, he just didnt have the people skills, and would rub everyone up the wrong way. Its a tough job, but really important to get it right.

soundsham

Who knows what got up his ass, he could have came to work p1ssed off or perhaps a lot of you guys turned up late and worse for wear,someone may have grated him before ye arrived ,perhaps he was chopping and changing all morning which could be very annoying
Is the captain king ?
Do you know if your phone call was communicated on ?
Sounds a bit like handbags, I agree with silent treatment too.
Just stand up and tee off when ye were told to by the starter, rather than annoy each other

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

In his defense, its his job to keep the competition running on time, for everyones sake. Its a thankless job as people dont realise that each group taking an extra minute fecking about adds up to an hour by the end of the day and its hsi fault.

You ringing the club explaining you are late has nothing to do with him. He gets sheet with times and names on it, you arrived after your time, thats all he knows.
I'd apologise for being late and just tee off and say nothing, you were in the wrong and he was doing his job (you could be the 20th group to be late that day for all you know)

They apologized and mentioned that they rang clubhouse etc..
I'd consider it quite rude to apologize without at least giving some sort of explanation/actions taken to try to resolve the situation.
You're completely right saying it's nothing to do with the Starter, doesn't make his thankless job any easier etc.
However, it does show that the group were conscientiousness about the delay and that should have been taken on board.

He seemed completely out of order to take this situation and make an massive deal with it.

Part of his job as a Starter should be an ability to manage the time-sheet if/when delays occur. (why have a starter if everyone is guaranteed to turn up and tee off on time)
Part of his job as a Starter should be to represent the Club in good light

ssbob

First thing I would say is you never know what's going on in someones life, while that does not excuse his behaviour, you have to to allow people to have an off day, for all you know he may have got bad news or could have been an anniversary of someone's death. Give the man the benifit of the doubt once and if it happens again then I owuld mention it to the club.

From reading your blog and looking at the pictures, the Atlantic Coast Challenge seems to be a roaring success played over three great courses. Don't let this small blip get in the way of that.

charlieIRL

They are looking for feedback from everyone who took part. Want the email address Kevin?!!

liamos43

Hi Kevin - can you get his details - mobile phone no. / address etc as I would like to offer him job at my club........

WHIP IT!

liamos43 wrote: »

Hi Kevin - can you get his details - mobile phone no. / address etc as I would like to offer him job at my club........

Liamos, can u post up the name of your club so I'll know to avoid it (assuming this guy gets the starting job)? Nothing worse than handing over your hard-earned in exchange for having to listen to an earful from some chap on a power-trip...

1916

A memento photo of all 3 + Starter on 1st tee I suppose was out of the question?

thewobbler

I'd suggest that if a club is going to go to the bother of employing a starter, then he should be a stickler. Otherwise they might as well just put a computer in the 1st tee.

WHIP IT!

thewobbler wrote: »

I'd suggest that if a club is going to go to the bother of employing a starter, then he should be a stickler. Otherwise they might as well just put a computer in the 1st tee.

Absolutely. A stickler is one thing - an ignorant c*nt is another.

Kevinmarkham

GreeBo wrote: »

In his defense, its his job to keep the competition running on time, for everyones sake. Its a thankless job as people dont realise that each group taking an extra minute fecking about adds up to an hour by the end of the day and its hsi fault.

I agree with you GreeBo, and personally I get seriously hacked off when people don't turn up on time and mess up the schedule, but that wasn't really the issue. There were plenty of people waiting to go, so it's not as if the tee box was empty. Dave offered an easy solution and the guy just became dictatorial... and then rude to each of us. That was the problem.

I know it's a thankless task, but his attitude didn't leave a good impression of the club. All he had to do was say, 'sorry lads, I'll have to send you out in 30 minutes.'

charlieIRL wrote: »

They are looking for feedback from everyone who took part. Want the email address Kevin?!!

No worries, I'm on the case

liamos43 wrote: »

Hi Kevin - can you get his details - mobile phone no. / address etc as I would like to offer him job at my club........

Have you got a clipboard and a fluorescent jacket - he won't take the job without them.

MP62

Lesson learned is don't be late unless, you want to feel the wrath of the yellow coated, grey haired fire starter.

Dtoffee

I have encountered many such jobsworths over the years .... its in their nature and no amount of reasoning will change them. In my opinion, they only respond to their superiors at their clubs and definitely not some visitor.

They are convinced they are doing the right thing, so you quickly learn that arguing is a waste of time. I generally bite my tongue, smile as if I care and get their name as I head off and find a superior. It has two effects, 1 - they cannot accuse me of being angry and aggressive, 2 - having to give their name often scares the crap out of them as they start wondering who you are..... and more importantly who you know.

What happened after your round? did you look for the captain or complain to some club representative? the reason I ask this, is that although you had a bad experience ..... putting it on your blog and only naming the club is not hurting the starter only putting people off playing Enniscrone. I would send a formal complaint to the club and ask for their comment. To be fair I find every club has some fool who fails to see the bigger picture and the vast majority will respond in an understanding fashion as without visitors they are dead in the water.

stockdam

Calling the guy a muppet and a control freak on a blog is out of order. You have had one bad experience and have painted him in a bad light without knowing if he normally does a good job.

I like your site Kevin but I'd rather you stick to the beauty in the courses we have and not highlight one unfortunate incident.

And no I don't wear a yellow jacket nor carry a clip-board.

mike12

I have to say i arrived in time and was greeted and given my goodie bag everyone seemed really nice. Not really sure but i am guessing the guys are volunteers for the day.
Kevin i reckon there was a guy out a couple of groups in front of u loosing a ball with that marking on it every second hole. You must be one lucky guy or really straight hitter to get thru those 3 courses with the same ball, it deserves to be framed.
mike

my friend

Kevin, IMHO your ego and ID are seriously out of balance.

You make a lot of excuses for your actions yet make no allowances for an elderly volunteer (the starter)

You really have a high opinion of yourself, I cant see why.

Kevinmarkham

Thanks for the feedback - much appreciated, whether positive or negative. In response:

Dtoffee wrote: »

What happened after your round? did you look for the captain or complain to some club representative? the reason I ask this, is that although you had a bad experience ..... putting it on your blog and only naming the club is not hurting the starter only putting people off playing Enniscrone. I would send a formal complaint to the club and ask for their comment.

Yes, one of the guys found someone from the club to talk to. Excellent point about 'not hurting the starter' - the last thing I want to do is put people off playing Enniscrone.

stockdam wrote: »

Calling the guy a muppet and a control freak on a blog is out of order. You have had one bad experience and have painted him in a bad light without knowing if he normally does a good job.

I like your site Kevin but I'd rather you stick to the beauty in the courses we have and not highlight one unfortunate incident.

Fair enough Stockdam, but I don't pull punches in my course reviews and I don't do it on my blog - I have given other people a hard time over the years and I've called them worse than that.

my friend wrote: »

You really have a high opinion of yourself, I cant see why.

Thanks for that

stockdam

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Fair enough Stockdam, but I don't pull punches in my course reviews and I don't do it on my blog - I have given other people a hard time over the years and I've called them worse than that.

I've read your book and I don't recall any reviews that were harsh.

I'd be a bit annoyed if we ever met and our first meeting didn't go well and you posted about me on the blog.

You won't always meet nice starters and to be honest the best ones tend to be a bit sharp of tongue. He was trying to do his job but you've made him sound as bad as somebody who is a waste of space. The guy had given up his time to try to organise a lot of people to get off the first tee promptly.........he's hardly a thief who breaks into a car and steals golf-clubs etc.

I understand that you didn't like his tone or his manner but you have the "privilege" of having a good following on your blog and in my view you should avoid anything that is personal as it tends to detract from your honest opinion of the courses you have played.

the groutch

so OP, you were already late, and then you stood around chatting to the Captain?

heavyballs

Kevin,you should be hung by the balls for using the word 'muppet' in what is a decent blog imo.
Aside from that i think if you were really only 2 mins late he's being a bit pedantic unless especially as there were no groups standing waiting to play.

GreeBo

heavyballs wrote: »

Kevin,you should be hung by the balls for using the word 'muppet' in what is a decent blog imo.
Aside from that i think if you were really only 2 mins late he's being a bit pedantic unless especially as there were no groups standing waiting to play.

Your position is immediately in behind the group on front, not immediately in front of the group behind!
If everyone had this attitude the comps would never run on time.

+1 on the muppet thing, I think its an inappropriate description of a volunteer doing a horrible job.

PARlance

So we've established Kevin is human and prone to the odd rant!

All this talk of Kevin being an ego & that he is privileged to have a following is utter nonsense.

Last time I checked there was nobody forcing me to follow him.

On reflection, the blog doesn't sit well with all the other excellent blogs, but come on, we're all liable to blow up from time to time.
If you don't like it or can't accept it, there's no Starter holding you back...tee off!

Nedser101

Kevin ,you where right to call a spade a spade.

Kevinmarkham

heavyballs wrote: »

Kevin,you should be hung by the balls for using the word 'muppet'.

GreeBo wrote: »

+1 on the muppet thing, I think its an inappropriate description of a volunteer doing a horrible job.

I am genuinely surprised at the displeasure expressed towards the term ‘muppet’… so, in the search for clarification I looked up a definition and found these:

1. A person who is ignorant and generally has no idea about anything.
2. Someone who is useless until you shove your fist up them - just like Kermit!

Neither of these is how I define ‘muppet’ and it was not what I meant in my blog. This definition, however, is perfect:

A person who defies explanation with regard to common sense and logic.

So, if I called him an ‘awful eejit’, would that make things better or worse? I apologise if 'muppet' is seen as inappropriate - I was not looking to use a pejorative term.

stockdam wrote: »

I've read your book and I don't recall any reviews that were harsh.

You won't always meet nice starters and to be honest the best ones tend to be a bit sharp of tongue. He was trying to do his job but you've made him sound as bad as somebody who is a waste of space. The guy had given up his time to try to organise a lot of people to get off the first tee promptly.....

Stockdam, thanks for the feedback and very well put. No one wants to be shredded on a blog (or any media) based on one encounter, especially as he was doing a job that he volunteered to do. Then again, if you stay at a hotel and meet a rude or aggressive receptionist, it can ruin your stay and make you seethe. Chances are, when you get home you’ll be telling friends/family about your bad experience. That's the nature of bad service.

I don’t see him as a waste of space. I appreciate that he has an important role to fulfil and the he volunteered, but he managed to be rude to the three of us, individually. That was out of order and completely unnecessary. I agree with you that the best Starters tend to be a bit sharp of tongue… but I’ve never encountered a rude one before.

As for my book reviews – may I direct you to Elm Park, Mount Temple, Slievenamon and Dublin Mountain.

the groutch wrote: »

so OP, you were already late, and then you stood around chatting to the Captain?

The Captain was the guy in charge of the teams checking-in.

Paulusmaximus

did you give yourself a two shot penalty for a late start or should it have been disqualification becuase you were so late? :rolleyes:

Also are mobile phones banned on the course as a local rule? should this incur a penalty also? :rolleyes:

Entertaining him and challenging him was probably the one thing you shouldn't have done, only gave him what he wanted, a reaction.

Out of curiousity, where were the groups that were supposed to be between your original time and the 1.20 time?

Myksyk

Kevin, I think your mistake was personalising the incident and concentrating on the personal characteristics of the starter rather than solely on the performance of his job. He just did a very poor job of dealing with what one would have to consider to be an almost guaranteed aspect of that job ... delays. Excuses based on the guy's age or job status don't hold up for me and border on condescending. He had to deal with a delay and did so aggressively and to the detriment of the experience of the customers, who are king in these scenarios. He doesn't deserve the personal battering in my opinion, just a keen and firm assessment of his very poor customer care and inability to deal with predictable aspects of his job.

Johnny_Fontane

whatever about the starter, I have been down in Enniscrone twice in the last few years and luckily never met a starter.

The welcome received was really quite amazing and the staff are incredibly friendly. I had a green fee voucher purchased through another website, and they refunded me a section of the green fee (it was worth €60) as golf that day was only €50. I didn't ask them to, they had it behind the bar when I was having a bite afterwards and they discounted our food by that amount.

Incredibly nice people. Unfortunate for Kevin and his group, but it happens every now and then and it can be very frustrating!

m r c

I wouldn't go too hard on Kevin here. He was late and did try to make it ok by calling ahead, these things happen. To be honest if the starter had put them to the end of the sheet but did it in a sound way without shouting from his soapbox the lads would have taken their beating blamed whoever was holding them up most at the hotel and it would have never even got a mention on the blog.
But instead he chose to use his tiny square inch of power and just be a dog to the lads, I come across people like that far too often.
If I was starting it here's how I'd handle it.
If them being late really was going to screw the sheet iD be like sorry lads but I have to move ye back or if it wasn't the end of the world and there still was room I'd be like not cool but hurry up and enjoy. No need for handbags though.

cjc on the ball, pity it wasn't cjh. Sounds like that ball was of "some service" there Kevin :-)