Railfreight

Jamie2k9

There is 2 services between Ballina and Dublin Port most days, if I'm not mistaken the second was added when the DFDS liners to Waterford stopped in July.

It could be to do with the bank holiday weekends...

Good Friday and Bank Holidays are normal days for freight operations.

Rud

Anybody have any idea what times the timber trains or DFDS liners would be in Kildare tomorrow?

Jamie2k9

Rud wrote: »

Anybody have any idea what times the timber trains or DFDS liners would be in Kildare tomorrow?

Don't know exact times but I think the DFDS departs around 16.45 or whenever the 14.50 from Waterford arrives and the Timer to Ballina is there at lunchtime around 13.45 or slightly lather.

kc56

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Don't know exact times but I think the DFDS departs around 16.45 or whenever the 14.50 from Waterford arrives and the Timer to Ballina is there at lunchtime around 13.45 or slightly lather.

That's about right. Yesterday the empty timber was in Kildare around 1400-1430.

On Easter Monday, a totally empty container train on flats was in Kildare (perhaps after the holiday weekend there were no containers for Waterford?)

101sean

Four page feature in next month's Railway Magazine on Irish railfreight inc a cab ride on the Tara mines run.

roundymac

Heard on the one o clock news that Ireland could be getting back it's beet quota 2017. Planting would start in 2016. A new company Beet Ireland I think the name was will use the beet for a varity of uses,ie; sugar, bio fuels, methane, etc. The question is where will the new factory be and will it be rail connected?

topnotch

roundymac wrote: »

Heard on the one o clock news that Ireland could be getting back it's beet quota 2017. Planting would start in 2016. A new company Beet Ireland I think the name was will use the beet for a varity of uses,ie; sugar, bio fuels, methane, etc. The question is where will the new factory be and will it be rail connected?

If a new plant is built it would probably be in Carlow, Kilkenny or Wexford so Mallow would then become the loading point.

dowlingm

Presumably the beet wagons are razor blades at this point?

No doubt the WIRC are already lobbying for Tuam

I'd rather see the plant built close to the growers with rail transport of containerised end product for export markets. Means you could only restart in one region of the country but that might be as much quota as is available. Hauling the beet around the country seems like less value added to me.

{EDIT: wherever production restarts I hope it doesn't end up lining Greencore's pocket with their rush to close their facilities and try to make property plays out of them}

corktina

topnotch wrote: »

If a new plant is built it would probably be in Carlow, Kilkenny or Wexford so Mallow would then become the loading point.

it's not logical to load in Mallow when the road system is so bad in North Cork. I well remember the misery of being stuck behind a tractor hauling beet and no chance to overtake for 15 miles

cbl593h

http://corkindependent.com/20130228/news/no-new-sugar-beet-factory-for-cork-beet-ireland-factory-set-for-tipp-announcement-S60443.html

Put this in another thread yesterday, fits here too.

Captain Chaos

cbl593h wrote: »

http://corkindependent.com/20130228/news/no-new-sugar-beet-factory-for-cork-beet-ireland-factory-set-for-tipp-announcement-S60443.html

Put this in another thread yesterday, fits here too.

Not a hope of this going by rail. I doubt there is any rolling stock left to move it and not a hope of any rail spurs being built to facilitate it either. IE don't want any more freight business and it's very clear in hope they operate and maintain or lack there off of unused sidings, spurs and yards.

kc56

topnotch wrote: »

If a new plant is built it would probably be in Carlow, Kilkenny or Wexford so Mallow would then become the loading point.

Indo had a report it was going to be Lisheen.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beet-ireland-to-set-up-home-at-lisheen-mines-29093690.html

Judgement Day

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not a hope of this going by rail. I doubt there is any rolling stock left to move it and not a hope of any rail spurs being built to facilitate it either. IE don't want any more rail business and it's very clear in hope they operate and maintain or lack there off of unused sidings, spurs and yards.

FYP.

sporty56

Not exactly Lisheen but original Galmoy facility( in Laois ?) Lisheen now own Galmoy's ore body and don't need the extensive surface facilities already in place as they will access the ore underground. It's a similar set up to Tara Mines taking over Bula's ore body but in Bula's case no surface facilities had been constructed.

pigtown

Does anyone have an idea what IÉ's intentions are for the Mungret Railway line in Limerick. They have recently paved over the level crossings so it's no longer passable, but according to this article: http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/development-and-planning/crescent-wins-with-playground-pitch-to-council-1-4800740 , IÉ refused to provide permission for the construction of a pedestrian bridge over the line. Why would they refuse if the line is no longer in use?

rainbowdash

pigtown wrote: »

Does anyone have an idea what IÉ's intentions are for the Mungret Railway line in Limerick. They have recently paved over the level crossings so it's no longer passable, but according to this article: http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/development-and-planning/crescent-wins-with-playground-pitch-to-council-1-4800740 , IÉ refused to provide permission for the construction of a pedestrian bridge over the line. Why would they refuse if the line is no longer in use?

I can't see the line ever being used again. Reading the article it seems the pedestrian overbridge was requested in 2008, when the line was still in use.

I would guess that road access to the proposed playing fields would have been across the track using a level crossing hence Irish Rail said no.

dowlingm

Sugar processed on a heavy metal mine site, mmmm... why not put it on the old Irish Steel plant altogether? I wonder if the current owners are trying to avoid having to remediate the land back to the way it was by touting it as an industrial site.

Lisheen/Galmoy should have been rail connected from day one anyway, given its relative proximity to both the Dublin Cork and Dublin Waterford lines, rather than batter the roads of the midlands with ore trucks.

dowlingm

Annual Report 2013 p38

Railfreight lost 1.638m Euro (after track charges and exceptionals) compared to 1.776m Euro in 2012.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Annual Report 2013 p38

Railfreight lost 1.638m Euro (after track charges and exceptionals) compared to 1.776m Euro in 2012.

so the losses are getting smaller thankfully, hope this will continue and the sector grows again (it should have never been let go down in the first place but whats done is done)

davidlacey

end of the road wrote: »

so the losses are getting smaller thankfully, hope this will continue and the sector grows again (it should have never been let go down in the first place but whats done is done)

why would it be at such a loss with so little of it at this stage!

relaxed

davidlacey wrote: »

why would it be at such a loss with so little of it at this stage!

Off the top of my head are there about 40 freight train journeys a week, call it €350 per wagon thing and 20 wagons per train, so ballpark 50 weeks is roughly €14 million a year - pretty small!

So where are the losses given the customer charters the train and carries all the risk in the event of wagons being empty?

L1011

Full cost accounting of maintenance to track etc even though they're also used for other purposes (passenger and/or PW trains etc) I'd imagine.

corktina

MYOB wrote: »

Full cost accounting of maintenance to track etc even though they're also used for other purposes (passenger and/or PW trains etc) I'd imagine.

that they would not get away with....the loss would be far bigger if they did that.

So wlll they be putting up the prices for the few trains that do run to eliminate the loss?...or is it a case that the trains are not really viable and would cease to run if they didn't run at a loss?

davidlacey

MYOB wrote: »

Full cost accounting of maintenance to track etc even though they're also used for other purposes (passenger and/or PW trains etc) I'd imagine.

other than drogheda to tara mines and dublin port

GBOA

In answer to davidlacey, It's economies of scale.

Put as simply as possible with a few basic assumptions, if you have a loco hauling 10 wagons with a full container on only one, there will be a more or less fixed operating cost. The revenue from the single container will not cover that cost so you have a net loss.

The same train with 10 full containers generates 10 times as much revenue however, the operating cost is highly unlikely to also increase by a factor of 10 so the theory is you get a net profit working based on the assumption that the cargo revenue surpasses the operating cost somewhere before reaching capacity.

That's probably a bit utopian though.

corktina

But isn't it the case that IE operate these services on behalf of a third party at , presumably, a fixed price and that 3rd party takes the risk of a loss. In that case why are IE subsiding the 3rd party by pricing the services at a loss?

GBOA

I don't know the answer to either question nor would I attempt to answer same.

All I posted was a very much simplified model to demonstrate economy of scale.

Jamie2k9

so the losses are getting smaller thankfully, hope this will continue and the sector grows again (it should have never been let go down in the first place but whats done is done)

While IE were not very good in this area the economic problems would of resulted in services cuts and frequency changes no matter what IE did or didn't do.

But isn't it the case that IE operate these services on behalf of a third party at , presumably, a fixed price and that 3rd party takes the risk of a loss. In that case why are IE subsiding the 3rd party by pricing the services at a loss?

Hard to judge but I expect that the agreement between both sides has clauses for changes. example if fuel prices increased X amount or IE fail to deliver services.

On last years losses, one might expect that DFDS service resumption may of received some sort of reduced rates as increased IWT liners could of so that could be a factor into the losses while the upkeep of rolling stock (including preparing for DFDS restart) probably plays a big role. Surly some level of 071's overhaul are included in freight financials.

On a general note Limerick J-Waterford has being cleared for CPW operations so Limerick-Waterford transfers can operate instead of via Kildare.

Victor

Irish Rail may have priced it on a whole-enterprise basis. While the freight business lost €1.6m, this was after it paid €2.4m to the infrastructure side.

Was there really a €2.4m cost to the infrastructure side in extra costs?

davidlacey

Victor wrote: »

Irish Rail may have priced it on a whole-enterprise basis. While the freight business lost €1.6m, this was after it paid €2.4m to the infrastructure side.

Was there really a €2.4m cost to the infrastructure side in extra costs?

They were probably adjusting a few figures to make passenger rail look slightly better and add costs to rail freight division as no one pays much attention to diminished railfreight which is small change in the grand scheme of things