World Handball Championships, Dublin, October 2012

Tombo2001

Well the Olympics are on in London, we've got the World Handball Championships.

Myself, I'm really looking forward to this.

Those who follow the sport are well used to hearing about the exploits of Irish players in North America; it will be great to see those characters coming over here.

http://worldhandball2012.com/players/

Leading back to the opening comment, there was an application made for Handball to be recognised as an olympic sport back in the 1930s, but it was rejected. Not sure why, probably as not played in enough countries. It was a close call apparently. Paddy Perry said it was the biggest disappointment of his career.

How different the Irish sporting landscape might look if this Irish game had been accredited as an olympic sport.

Anyway, I hadnt seen a thread on this, so thought it deserved one.

Grudaire

I hope it runs smoothly, the Yanks and Canadians have set the bar high in terms of how these types of competitions should be run. To compound this there is a lack of facilities here. The tempory complex they're making is possibly their best idea but I think it will still be tough to manage the spread of alleys.

What're the odd's on Paul Brady I wonder ;-)

irish147

does anyone know what time play does start tomorrow, cant find any info out about times....

The_Kew_Tour

I hear there talks that Handball could be Olympic Sport

Tom Joad

irish147 wrote: »

does anyone know what time play does start tomorrow, cant find any info out about times....

10am start on Thursday - Paul Brady is in action at 5.15 Thursday in the Showdown vs Sean Lenning - Ducksy Walsh is playing the doubles in this competion at 7pm.

Stage looks good in the photos and hopefully this is a sucess. Paul Brady is obviously the Irish start to watch and with his doubles partner Michael Finnegan will be worth watching.. Both represent the Kingscourt handball club in Cavan which is sending 15 handballers.

One of the most progressive clubs in Ireland and has phenomenal facilities which are well worth visiting..

Mardy Bum

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I hear there talks that Handball could be Olympic Sport

The Olympic panel is coming over the judge these games to see if it is a viable option.

Im going to call a Brady-Moreno final. Brady winning in 3 tight games.

megadodge

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The Olympic panel is coming over the judge these games to see if it is a viable option.

Im going to call a Brady-Moreno final. Brady winning in 3 tight games.

Assuming his body holds up, I really can't see anyone taking a game off Brady.

Moreno is a bit overrated in my opinion. I'd fancy McCarthy over him and Lenning on a 'switched on' day.

Grudaire

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The Olympic panel is coming over the judge these games to see if it is a viable option.

Is this true? :-o

Tombo2001

Are the best americans at the event?

Mardy Bum

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Are the best americans at the event?

Yes everyone in the RACE4EIGHT (American League) apart from Alan Garner a previous finalist.

Mardy Bum

RYDER CUP of Handball:

Paul Brady dft. David Fink 21-5
Luis Moreno/Andy Nett dft. Robbie McCarthy/Brian Carroll 21-18
Sean Lenning dft. Michael Gregan 21-19
Naty Alvarado/Luis Cordova dft. Ducksy Walsh and Tom Sheridan 21-18

The USA are victors on a 3-1 scoreline.

Mardy Bum

Brady, Lenning, Moreno and Alvarado have a big advantage as due to the way the show court is constructed their serves will be near impossible to return as shown in tonight's games.

Tom Joad

Fair play to you Mardy for keeping us updated - are you out at it?? How does the glass court look up close?

Mardy Bum

Im not up but have seen some action and chatted to a few. Heading up shortly when the real action starts. Brady has said tracking the ball around the glass is difficult because the crowd are that side and its doesnt seem to be very bright. I thought the same from the picture when I seen it too. The show court is built on top of the other 21 courts. Its an amazing set up but that left side will cause a lot of trouble when the seats fill up and the ball is hit hard at that wall.

Tombo2001

How would you rank the Irish players in small court....?

If Brady is number one, who else would make the top 5?

celt262

Is this going to be streamed live anywhere?

signostic

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Im not up but have seen some action and chatted to a few. Heading up shortly when the real action starts. Brady has said tracking the ball around the glass is difficult because the crowd are that side and its doesnt seem to be very bright. I thought the same from the picture when I seen it too. The show court is built on top of the other 21 courts. Its an amazing set up but that left side will cause a lot of trouble when the seats fill up and the ball is hit hard at that wall.

Looks like the court that I seen at the US Open Racquetball Championships in Memphis a few years ago. (not sure if its the same one)
(p.s went to see the 40x20 court at Gracelands, the walls were decorated with all the gold and platnium discs that belonged to Elvis)

Mardy Bum

celt262 wrote: »

Is this going to be streamed live anywhere?

The WPH are webcasting it here www.race4eight.com.

Mardy Bum

Tombo2001 wrote: »

How would you rank the Irish players in small court....?

If Brady is number one, who else would make the top 5?

Personally it would be Brady, Moreno, Lenning, McCarthy, Shanks would be my top 5 in the competition.

Top 5 Irish would also include Nash (but hes not entered in the Open) and Gregan or Kennedy(not sure how hes been playing since his break from small alley).

feargale

I understand that 23 countries are represented at City West, but I can't find a list of them. Can anybody help, please?

Mardy Bum

feargale wrote: »

I understand that 23 countries are represented at City West, but I can't find a list of them. Can anybody help, please?

http://worldhandball2012.com/2012/09/record-entry-list-for-worlds-2012/
Collated entry list in the above link at bottom of page.

Tombo2001

Went out last night and tonight; its some set up.
Saw a good close game last night between Shane O'Neill and a Puerto Rican chap Cesar Sala. Tonight, of the games I saw I thought Eoin Kennedy was playing very well, Luis Moreno wasnt as strong as i thought he'd be against Danny Bell, though Bell played well. Also, the guy playing Tony Healy looked very good.....Tyler Bastidas I think. Will be interesting to see how he goes against Moreno in the next match.

feargale

Mardy Bum wrote: »

feargale wrote: »

I understand that 23 countries are represented at City West, but I can't find a list of them. Can anybody help, please?

http://worldhandball2012.com/2012/09/record-entry-list-for-worlds-2012/
Collated entry list in the above link at bottom of page.

Thanks Mardy, but I can't bring up the list. A meeting in Spain last year established a new international federation of 33 countries. Do you know what the new federation is called, or is there anything about it online? Thanks again in anticipation.

Mardy Bum

The last 16 and quarters were played today with Paul Brady, Michael Finnegan, Luis Moreno and Robbie McCarthy winning through. Brady was as imperious as ever. Finnegan is playing the tournament of a lifetime as he made some huge upsets beating Lenning and Alverado. Moreno beat an excellent Charly Shanks in the quarters so he is beginning to bring back some of the form that seen him beat Brady four years ago. McCarthy overcame Kennedy in a close quarter final in a tiebraker 11-7.

Brady V Finnegan will be an interesting match up but I can only see Brady winning.

Moreno V McCarthy will be enthralling. Very hard to call but I would say Moreno has the ability to win through.

Mardy Bum

feargale wrote: »

Thanks Mardy, but I can't bring up the list. A meeting in Spain last year established a new international federation of 33 countries. Do you know what the new federation is called, or is there anything about it online? Thanks again in anticipation.

Download the excel file and there is a list of players and their countries. There is probably a list in the programme of events but I never bought one. I dont have the name of the federation off the top of my head but I'll try to recall it.

feargale

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Download the excel file and there is a list of players and their countries. There is probably a list in the programme of events but I never bought one. I dont have the name of the federation off the top of my head but I'll try to recall it.

Thanks

Tombo2001

Interesting profile on Cesar Sala who Brady beat in the second round.

http://nymag.com/news/sports/58186/

Mardy Bum

World Semi Final Results
P. Brady dft. M. Finnegan 21-10 21-6
L. Moreno dft. R. McCarthy 21-18 21-8

Brady's semi was very one sided but Finnegan put up a big fight with a lot of lengthy rallies. Brady was too strong and pulled away in the second.

As I called it from the start Moreno dispatched of McCarthy in what can only be described as the best game of the tournament. Game one was a torrid affair with the ref making bad calls but the players were simply magnificent. Moreno's power coupled with McCarthy's gets made it enthralling viewing for the spectators. Moreno held his nerve close to the end of game one and finished McCarthy off with some aces. Game two saw Moreno fight his way to dominance , controlling the front court and pushing McCarthy back with powerful drives. McCarthy's head dropped as his legs began to weaken and the realisation that Moreno was of superior fitness overcame him. Moreno pushed on and finished the game with the help of his hop serves.

The final will take place tomorrow at 5.30 in the Citywest and from what I have seen has the potential to be one of the best games ever. The last person to defeat Brady on the pro circuit was Moreno four years ago when Moreno was still a teenager. This is the coming together of the present and future colossus' of the game.

zymar

Mardy Bum wrote: »

World Semi Final Results
P. Brady dft. M. Finnegan 21-10 21-6
L. Moreno dft. R. McCarthy 21-18 21-8

Brady's semi was very one sided but Finnegan put up a big fight with a lot of lengthy rallies. Brady was too strong and pulled away in the second.

As I called it from the start Moreno dispatched of McCarthy in what can only be described as the best game of the tournament. Game one was a torrid affair with the ref making bad calls but the players were simply magnificent. Moreno's power coupled with McCarthy's gets made it enthralling viewing for the spectators. Moreno held his nerve close to the end of game one and finished McCarthy off with some aces. Game two saw Moreno fight his way to dominance , controlling the front court and pushing McCarthy back with powerful drives. McCarthy's head dropped as his legs began to weaken and the realisation that Moreno was of superior fitness overcame him. Moreno pushed on and finished the game with the help of his hop serves.

The final will take place tomorrow at 5.30 in the Citywest and from what I have seen has the potential to be one of the best games ever. The last person to defeat Brady on the pro circuit was Moreno four years ago when Moreno was still a teenager. This is the coming together of the present and future colossus' of the game.

seen the quarter finals on sunday. brady will not be beaten.Final on Tue 9.30 mens open.Ladies open final 7.30

nice_guy80

Mardy Bum wrote: »

World Semi Final Results
P. Brady dft. M. Finnegan 21-10 21-6
L. Moreno dft. R. McCarthy 21-18 21-8

Brady's semi was very one sided but Finnegan put up a big fight with a lot of lengthy rallies. Brady was too strong and pulled away in the second.

As I called it from the start Moreno dispatched of McCarthy in what can only be described as the best game of the tournament. Game one was a torrid affair with the ref making bad calls but the players were simply magnificent. Moreno's power coupled with McCarthy's gets made it enthralling viewing for the spectators. Moreno held his nerve close to the end of game one and finished McCarthy off with some aces. Game two saw Moreno fight his way to dominance , controlling the front court and pushing McCarthy back with powerful drives. McCarthy's head dropped as his legs began to weaken and the realisation that Moreno was of superior fitness overcame him. Moreno pushed on and finished the game with the help of his hop serves.

The final will take place tomorrow at 5.30 in the Citywest and from what I have seen has the potential to be one of the best games ever. The last person to defeat Brady on the pro circuit was Moreno four years ago when Moreno was still a teenager. This is the coming together of the present and future colossus' of the game.

very unusual for Robbie to lose out in the fitness stakes.
Moreno must be some player

Mardy Bum

zymar wrote: »

seen the quarter finals on sunday. brady will not be beaten.Final on Tue 9.30 mens open.Ladies open final 7.30

Finals of the Mens' Open is scheduled for half 6.

Tombo2001

nice_guy80 wrote: »

very unusual for Robbie to lose out in the fitness stakes.
Moreno must be some player

Didnt Robbie havea tough match the previous day too, maybe that was a factor.

Tombo2001

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Finals of the Mens' Open is scheduled for half 6.

Odd and awkward time to stage the match, from a spectator point of view.

Anyone travelling from city centre Dublin would have to leave work early and negotiate rush hour traffic.....

Tombo2001

stunning finals in womens and mens, exceptionally high standards in both.

megadodge

Brady is simply incredible.

Down 12-2 and 19-12 in the first, looking nervous, playing poorly (by his standards) and up against inspired opposition, he still wins 21-19!!

It had to have been a complete sickner for Moreno, who played some sensational handball in the first and yet when he gave Brady just a little sniff... BOOM!!

Although the second started tight and Brady still had to work tremendously hard, it was obvious from a good way out that there was no way he was losing.

For quite some time I have believed Paul Brady is the greatest sportsman Ireland has ever produced and this evening has only reinforced that view.

I also have to take my hat off to Moreno, who I earlier referred to as "overrated". Not anymore. Fantastic player.

feargale

Tombo2001 wrote: »

stunning finals in womens and mens, exceptionally high standards in both.

Pity there's been absolutely nothing live on tv. Some of us live far from Dublin.

feargale

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The Olympic panel is coming over the judge these games to see if it is a viable option.

Perhaps we Irish should begin by discontinuing to refer to the other handball ( the arriviste that hi-jacked the name ) as "Olympic Handball." The Americans have the right idea, calling it Team Handball, and ours Wall Handball. These little things matter.

Tombo2001

feargale wrote: »

Pity there's been absolutely nothing live on tv. Some of us live far from Dublin.

to be fair it would have been a difficult event to stream live....

for starters, the womens final took a long time so the mens didnt start until well after 8 (versus schedule 6.30)....now I know they could get around that issue.

But during the game there were several breaks for time-outs and also to dry the courts, change gloves and so on.....wouldnt have sat well with live telly.

It will be on TG4 Friday night.

munchkin_utd

feargale wrote: »

Perhaps we Irish should begin by discontinuing to refer to the other handball ( the arriviste that hi-jacked the name ) as "Olympic Handball." The Americans have the right idea, calling it Team Handball, and ours Wall Handball. These little things matter.

when the english stop calling soccer "football" then maybe we can start negotiation on the olympic handball term

rollout

The WPH were showing it live on their race4eight website, a subscription was needed though.

There is a show tonight on TG4 from the Worlds but I don't believe the finals are included. The show on Friday will have some of the finals.

Sky Sports are showing a rolling featurette on Brady over the next few days.

As regards the final yesterday, it was a fantastic comeback from Brady in the first game. I can't remember seeing him go down 9-1 before. He looked very nervous but Moreno came out playing outstanding. His own serve was devastating but he was returning balls off Brady's serve which I considered unreturnable.

I felt the crowd were visibly shocked at the scoreline as Moreno went ahead. But really got behind Paul as he slowly came back. It must have been an intimidating atmosphere for Moreno. Even at 20-19 i wasn't sure that Brady would finish it out, Moreno was playing so well.

Tom Joad

megadodge wrote: »

Brady is simply incredible.


For quite some time I have believed Paul Brady is the greatest sportsman Ireland has ever produced and this evening has only reinforced that view.

While some may argue that one with you he is a phenomenal athlete and trains like a pro - he is certainly in my view the greatest sportsman ever produced by Cavan. He was also man of the match in the county final a few weeks ago..

Tombo2001

One of the great things about last night was that I guess in the past a lot of great handball performances would have gone unrecorded, but last night was probably the biggest ever handball game played in this country, arguably the highest standard match ever played in this country and it attracted I would think the largest crowd to watch a handball game here, or perhaps anywhere. (I'm assuming the crowd last night was larger that what would have fit into the big court viewing gallery at Croke Park, though I might be wrong there).

It was a brilliant showcase. The RTE guy did very well also to be fair to him, he wasnt reading it off a script, he had done his homework well. The music before the game, while it can be a pain in the backside at somewhere like Croke Park, here it really added to the tension. As live sporting events go, definitely one of the best I've been to.

As for the game, the first thing that struck me was the warm up. Brady was flinging the ball around, was much more structured in his drills. He looked ready and focussed. Just on that, it was interesting to watch him throw the ball during the warm up, his wrists especially are like rubber bands. So I thought Brady would start the better, but that wasnt the case. After a a few changes of serve, Moreno got into a rhythym that Brady couldnt break. Moreno's passing shots in particular were fantastic during that first game, really accurate and consistent, and he was dominating the middle of the court.

It was interesting that one point Brady seem to lost confidence in his normal serve, the low drive down the left or right and tried a few higher serves, but they didnt work either. Moreno led 13-2 and as an earlier poster said, the crowd was stunned into silence. To be fair to the crowd, they were respectful of Moreno, there was no hostility to him. Brady got back into the game, but Moreno's confidence didnt dip. I think at one point Brady got back to 16-14, but then Moreno hit a superb kill of the back wall to the right. It was a real pressure shot if ever there was one. At that point I thought Moreno would win the first match. He stretched the lead to 19-14. At 19-14 down, Brady took a time-out. I thought he was doing so needlessly, that it was a bit of a desperate measure. But no. The rest as they say is history...won serve back and seven points in a row, if memory serves me right, he came in a like a train.

Mardy Bum

Highlights of the worlds start tonight on TG4 at 9pm.

feargale

munchkin_utd wrote: »

when the english stop calling soccer "football" then maybe we can start negotiation on the olympic handball term

"Football" can mean any one of about 5 or 6 different codes, depending on where you live. To my knowledge, this has never led to any practical problems for any one of them. As one who has played and enjoyed both forms of handball, I would love to see our code in the Olympics. My point is that you are getting off to a very weak start in that quest if you describe the other code as "Olympic Handball."

Mardy Bum

feargale wrote: »

Thanks Mardy, but I can't bring up the list. A meeting in Spain last year established a new international federation of 33 countries. Do you know what the new federation is called, or is there anything about it online? Thanks again in anticipation.

The World Wall Ball Association was formally introduced on Thursday with 33 countries joining the effort to have Wall Ball (One-Wall big ball) included in the Olympics. The first hurdle has been cleared in that Wall Ball will be an exhibition sport at the World Games in Cali, Columbia next summer (2013).
Former GAA Handball President Tony Hannon will serve as the first president of the group that will office in Dublin, Ire.

Mardy Bum

World Championship Doubles Final
Moreno/Nett dft Brady/Finnegan.

Moreno and Nett had too much fire power. Brady and Finnegan were flat but as I predicted Luis Moreno made a big impression and finally got his just deserts, the most naturally talented player in the world by a long way.

Brady and Moreno will no doubt meet again next week in the Simple Green US Open of Handball in Orange County, California, most probably in the finals. I predict three close games there.

P Brady has done Ireland proud. Katy Taylor and Donegal got huge celebrations this year one can only hope the country will do one of their greatest sportsmen some act of generosity when he returns from the US.

zymar

U.S. were the better team. totally agree moreno is a class player and for sure what a truly great sportsman and role model brady is.

Tombo2001

Did anyone see any of the one wall championship? Would love to have watched it......

megadodge

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Moreno and Nett had too much fire power. Brady and Finnegan were flat but as I predicted Luis Moreno made a big impression and finally got his just deserts, the most naturally talented player in the world by a long way.

I don't want to go too far off-topic here but I'm quite interested in hearing how you can actually quantify that.

"Naturally talented" is a term usually used by people championing those, who, for whatever reason, haven't achieved as much as they were expected to.

There are a number of books out there which make compelling arguments about the myth of "talent" and how if you look deeply enough every elite performer works incredibly hard and their success has little to do with "talent".

Alex Higgins was for many years regarded as "the most naturally talented snooker player ever". However, the interesting thing about Alex is, for most of his formative and earlier competitive snooker years he practiced NINE HOURS A DAY!!! Think of how your game (or anyone's) would improve with that sort of preparation year in, year out.

Look at Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy and how young they were when they started and how they were pushed/encouraged/coached for virtually their entire lives. Then you hear people talking about their "talent"!!

Luis Moreno works very, very hard at his game (that was even referred to by a commentator in one of his recent games) and that's why he's such a good player.

Tombo2001

megadodge wrote: »

I don't want to go too far off-topic here but I'm quite interested in hearing how you can actually quantify that.

"Naturally talented" is a term usually used by people championing those, who, for whatever reason, haven't achieved as much as they were expected to.

There are a number of books out there which make compelling arguments about the myth of "talent" and how if you look deeply enough every elite performer works incredibly hard and their success has little to do with "talent".

Alex Higgins was for many years regarded as "the most naturally talented snooker player ever". However, the interesting thing about Alex is, for most of his formative and earlier competitive snooker years he practiced NINE HOURS A DAY!!! Think of how your game (or anyone's) would improve with that sort of preparation year in, year out.

Look at Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy and how young they were when they started and how they were pushed/encouraged/coached for virtually their entire lives. Then you hear people talking about their "talent"!!

Luis Moreno works very, very hard at his game (that was even referred to by a commentator in one of his recent games) and that's why he's such a good player.

I would take your point.

The most naturally talented player in the world probably doesnt even play the game, if you look at it that way.

However I'd say in this case the phrase "natural talent" refers to skill set, and variety of skills, and the variety of shots that player can see and play.

To make an anaology with another discussion on boards right now, Joe Canning is probably more "naturally talented" then Henry Shefflin.

Clearly an important attribute of a great player is mental strength. My guess is that in this case, Brady (or Shefflin) would be the strongest players mentally or psychologically in their sport; both displaying this trait in their respective key games this year.

Tombo2001

megadodge wrote: »

Luis Moreno works very, very hard at his game (that was even referred to by a commentator in one of his recent games) and that's why he's such a good player.

Just on this point, I thought it was poignant when Moreno said after the game "Paul is a great champion, I wish I could play against him more".

I can imagine how he feels......Brady would be a guy who arrives over to the US once or twice a year, hammers everyone or nearly everyone, and then isnt seen again until the following year.

For the likes of Moreno, I'd imagine Brady is a real enigma.

I've never met Brady, and I've only seen him play a handful of times.

One thing I've always wondered about him is how does he get match fit.

You always hear in Rugby or Soccer that say if a player comes back after pre-season, they can get their physical fitness back but they arent "match fit" until they've had a few tough games.

Who does Brady play against to get match fit, especially given that (I think its fair to say) their is a fair gulf between himself and most of the other Irish players.

Who does he train with and how does he train?