Taxi Fare Review 2012

wexford12

The taxi fare is under review this year. There is call for a 10% increase since the last rise in fares was in 2008 which was about 8%.What do you guys think I know lots of people don't like paying to get home but we have to be realistic with the cost of fuel and all the other costs that have gone up.
The regulator has over the years increased the costs of renewing licence and PSV licence has gone from about €12 to €250. So here goes let us know what your thoughts are

foggy_lad

Cut the costs charged for the regulatory stuff like meter seals and info cards and all those extras the regulators screw the taxi drivers with! Stuff like meter seals should be almost free! Then have a local fare option of €5 which will cover a 4-5km distance from where the passenger is picked up. For the standard fares leave the initial charges for the firsk km etc and have an 8% increase in the normal fare per km and 10% increase in premium fares per km.

bk

With some taxi companies now offering discounts of between 20 and 25% it doesn't seem like a good idea to increase fares by another 10%.

Yes costs may have increased, but if the price increase drives away passengers and they seek alternatives like Nitelink, etc. then what good is a price increase to you?

wexford12

Its a catch 22 but looking back at my accounts over the last few years its going south with little if no profit for wages at the end of the year. We should not be out there as a free ride home is it to much to ask to make a wage.
Iv seen guys down here doing the €5 around town and even at that they have been dropping like flies when their car need repairing etc there is no money to fix the problem.Speaking to drivers that have left and all have been because they couldn't afford to fix or change the car are better if not the same off on the dole.

markpb

wexford12 wrote: »

We should not be out there as a free ride home is it to much to ask to make a wage

I won't argue with that but perhaps if the prices were lowered, more people might use taxis? Increasing the price might help offset your increasing cost base but it'll also put off some prospective passengers. Personally I won't bother taking a taxi for most trips unless it's absolutely necessary (going home after a night out or if I'm late going somewhere). It's not that I'm short on cash (I'm lucky to have a decent job) but justifying the price is getting harder.

Also I can't understand the reasoning for the booking charge. I pay extra even though (in my head) it's much more efficient for a taxi driver to sit somewhere and go directly to a fare than cruise around aimlessly hoping to be in the right place at the right time.

wexford12

markpb wrote: »

Also I can't understand the reasoning for the booking charge. I pay extra even though (in my head) it's much more efficient for a taxi driver to sit somewhere and go directly to a fare than cruise around aimlessly hoping to be in the right place at the right time.

Your right I would never charge the pick up if someone has been good enough to ring you and book you why would any driver charge them for a booking its off the wall stuff....

Having said that if the booking is for a very short trip lets say 3km and its a 5km journey to pick them up then yes I would charge it if there was no extra passengers to bulk up the fare a bit

mikemac1

Plenty of taxis but still difficult enough to get wheelchair accessible taxis at times

Maybe they need some VRT rebate or fuel rebate or some incentive, more are needed

Bit offtopic

Sure maybe if a driver bought one they could make contacts and do deals with nursing homes and HSE and locals who need them

the groutch

the problem isnt the pricing, it's the over-saturation of the market.
when you have taxis queuing by the dozen in the ranks, and/or repeatedly circling towns and villages looking for customers, of course they're going to need bigger fares just to make ends meet.

what is needed, at least in Dublin is for no new licences to be issues for at least a decade, til they get back down to a realistic level.

AlekSmart

It seems some of the Taxi representative groups have been lobbying the NTA to have Discounting made illegal.....can any of the Taxi Drivers comment as to whether this is true....?

Outkast_IRE

the groutch wrote: »

the problem isnt the pricing, it's the over-saturation of the market.
when you have taxis queuing by the dozen in the ranks, and/or repeatedly circling towns and villages looking for customers, of course they're going to need bigger fares just to make ends meet.

what is needed, at least in Dublin is for no new licences to be issues for at least a decade, til they get back down to a realistic level.

This i truely belive is the best soloution with a medium term view, its obvious the market is past saturation in many areas, i would say for every new licence given out another taxi driver ends up jacking it in and on the dole.

Thes guys want to work not to be sitting on ranks all day , with others circling blocking traffic, if the regulator had any clue whatsoever it would try and stop new licences being issued, and spend its time doing more enforcement and weeding out some of the bad apples.

foggy_lad

mikemac1 wrote: »

Plenty of taxis but still difficult enough to get wheelchair accessible taxis at times

Maybe they need some VRT rebate or fuel rebate or some incentive, more are needed

Bit offtopic

Sure maybe if a driver bought one they could make contacts and do deals with nursing homes and HSE and locals who need them

Those wheelchair taxis are awful yokes though, most are perfectly good 9 seaters which have had the front seats moved forward restricting legroom in the front just to accommodate the door width for the wheelchair. the normal seats are replaced with hard uncomfortable taxi-proof seats which are hard to sit back into once the vehicle is moving and getting to the door at journeys end whilst crouched over is a pain, They are also very noisy and too high off the ground for anyone with a mobility impairment to use without help and there are plans afoot to raise the floor height even more for new vehicles, wheelchair taxis should be standard or low floor vehicles designed to carry a wheelchair or designed to be easily converted! There are several Fiats Citreons VW and other cars on the road which easily fit the bill with little modification.

As for deals with the local HSE etc these are usually done already on a local level but journeys would be much better value for money if the wheelchair taxis felt as comfortable as a car instead of the back of a builders transit van.

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

It seems some of the Taxi representative groups have been lobbying the NTA to have Discounting made illegal.....can any of the Taxi Drivers comment as to whether this is true....?

Well I know if they do this in conjunction with a 10% decrease, then my taxi use will go down to 90%, to only what is absolutely necessary.

To be honest, like markpb, despite being pretty lucky with a good job I've felt taxis are just too expensive. The 20% off companies have allowed me to use taxi's more often then I would otherwise.

If Taxis go up 30% for me, you can kiss my ass goodbye as a customer.

Losty Dublin

wexford12 wrote: »

Your right I would never charge the pick up if someone has been good enough to ring you and book you why would any driver charge them for a booking its off the wall stuff....

Having said that if the booking is for a very short trip lets say 3km and its a 5km journey to pick them up then yes I would charge it if there was no extra passengers to bulk up the fare a bit

The call out charge was there to make good to a driver who may miss fares en route to a pick up. It would work a little different in the city where you'd not have regular passengers compared to a driver out in the sticks.

@Mike; most hospitals and HSE facilities would have accounts with radio firms or despatch firm so a solo driver wouldn't get work from them as a rule. That said, there is a greater need for WAT's to do such work but them wagosn cost a lot more than a conventional vehicle to buy and run

wexford12

AlekSmart wrote: »

It seems some of the Taxi representative groups have been lobbying the NTA to have Discounting made illegal.....can any of the Taxi Drivers comment as to whether this is true....?

Seems that this is true it was in the Indo paper last week there is some sence to this as if you get on a bus train or luas you can't haggle the fare.I know that we are all in competition with each other but to discount at this stage is madness. Some companies are offering a 20% discount on fares if pre booked so on this they add on the €2 booking fee and then knock of the discount €10 fare = €8 same as if you don't charge the booking fee.
I have just had my last years accounts done and my accountant rang me to ask was I kidding him was that really what i earned last year his advice is to pack it in. Be better of flipping burgers in a Mc D'S.

bk

wexford12 wrote: »

I have just had my last years accounts done and my accountant rang me to ask was I kidding him was that really what i earned last year his advice is to pack it in. Be better of flipping burgers in a Mc D'S.

I'm sorry to hear that, but do you honestly think raising prices by as much as 30% during a recession is going to help?

Many people don't have a job at all, 15% of people in fact. Increasing fares like this is just going to drive those left with jobs away from using taxis.

As others have said, the problem with the taxi industry isn't fares (well actually they are probably too high in todays economy), rather it is that there are simply too many taxis and not enough work.

Increasing fares and thus reducing the amount of work isn't going to fix that.

Terrontress

I've never booked a taxi which hasn't added on the booking fee. This is going back years. I booked 2 journeys last week from IFSC to Cabinteely and return. Both added on the fee.

I can't see why any taxi driver would not add it. You've got the choice to make a legitimate extra 2 quid or not to. Which do you take?

So if these 20% discount companies are just discounting the booking fee then that is fine by me as I don't think many taxis are discounting the fee without it. Plus any taxi journey I take In Dublin is usually more than €10.

monkeypants

If I'm in the city centre over the weekend, I'll get the Nitelink. It requires a 100 yard walk to my house from the bus stop and a wee bit of time awareness to catch it, but it costs €5. A taxi costs approximately €30.

I'm employed and paid reasonably well. I just can't justify the expense.

Putting the price up will not make me a customer. I doubt I'm the only one.

Jaysoose

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The call out charge was there to make good to a driver who may miss fares en route to a pick up. It would work a little different in the city where you'd not have regular passengers compared to a driver out in the sticks.

This is twisted logic that has no place in the current market, little extra charges like this only serve to frustrate and alienate the customers taxi's do have.

markpb

Jaysoose wrote: »

This is twisted logic that has no place in the current market, little extra charges like this only serve to frustrate and alienate the customers taxi's do have.

It doesn't alienate me, it just means I'll never book a taxi. Instead, I'll just let taxi drivers drive around aimlessly, wasting petrol until they find me.

Uriel.

the groutch wrote: »

the problem isnt the pricing, it's the over-saturation of the market.
when you have taxis queuing by the dozen in the ranks, and/or repeatedly circling towns and villages looking for customers, of course they're going to need bigger fares just to make ends meet.

what is needed, at least in Dublin is for no new licences to be issues for at least a decade, til they get back down to a realistic level.

I don't necessarily agree. I am not a taxi driver of course, though I have no particular problem with taxi drivers, except for individuals who provide a poor or dangerous service (but that would be the same in any sector).

If a small street has 5 coffee shops, all selling the same things, more or less, something eventually has to give, if footfall does not provide enough business for 5 shops. 1,2, maybe even 3 may eventually fall out of business.

I really see no reason why the taxi industry should be any different to be honest.

Losty Dublin

Jaysoose wrote: »

This is twisted logic that has no place in the current market, little extra charges like this only serve to frustrate and alienate the customers taxi's do have.

You want a taxi to pick you up, it comes to you instead of you looking for it so a fee is allowed for the convenience availed of.

Why is that twisted logic?

markpb

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You want a taxi to pick you up, it comes to you instead of you looking for it so a fee is allowed for the convenience availed of.

Why is that twisted logic?

Surely it's more efficient for taxi drivers to go directly to customers (in suburban areas, not in the city centre) rather than drive around aimlessly hoping to come across someone looking for a taxi?

foggy_lad

Weed out the criminals fcukwits and general wingers, moaners and racists and there will be more work to go around for honest decent drivers.

Marcusm

Supposed open access (no restriction on licence numbers) together with a largely fixed fare structure will never allow a market to operate. Perhaps each taxi should have a ticket on the window stating the %age of the meter he's prepared to work for. That way if you've had a quiet day you can drop your price to get customers and vice versa if you need to maintain prices. It's like market traders selling tomatoes, some will price owner to get rid of tstock that's going off. Likewise the 100 or so taxi drivers on Dame St on a Friday/Saturday night have a perishable commodity - their time. Let them set the prices themselves subject to an upper limit (the regulated fare) but do this openly with no requirement for haggling.

Losty Dublin

markpb wrote: »

Surely it's more efficient for taxi drivers to go directly to customers (in suburban areas, not in the city centre) rather than drive around aimlessly hoping to come across someone looking for a taxi?

You are booking a service to come to you and not you to it, hence a call out/booking fee. When a cab is booked, he isn't available for hire to others until your trip is finished so the call out charge part compensates for this as well. I take on board what you are saying but there are two sides to this. If you don't agree to it then make your views known to the powers that be and maybe they will take them on board .

While I think of it, a charge should also be made to people who call out cabs and whom don't honour the booking; many a driver has wasted time on bogus bookings and with no comeback.

hardCopy

Uriel. wrote: »

I don't necessarily agree. I am not a taxi driver of course, though I have no particular problem with taxi drivers, except for individuals who provide a poor or dangerous service (but that would be the same in any sector).

If a small street has 5 coffee shops, all selling the same things, more or less, something eventually has to give, if footfall does not provide enough business for 5 shops. 1,2, maybe even 3 may eventually fall out of business.

I really see no reason why the taxi industry should be any different to be honest.

Sad to say, but it's not the regulator's job to protect income. If drivers can't make a living they should do something else. When enough drivers realise this it'll balance out.

Jaysoose

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You are booking a service to come to you and not you to it, hence a call out/booking fee. When a cab is booked, he isn't available for hire to others until your trip is finished so the call out charge part compensates for this as well. I take on board what you are saying but there are two sides to this. If you don't agree to it then make your views known to the powers that be and maybe they will take them on board .

While I think of it, a charge should also be made to people who call out cabs and whom don't honour the booking; many a driver has wasted time on bogus bookings and with no comeback.

This argument would hold water if every taxi was constantly in use and they were turning away work when en route to a fare, we all know the reality is quite the opposite. So a taxi that has been sitting idle and driving around all day is suddenly turning away custom in the 5 minutes it takes to pick up a booked fare? Its a charge dreamt up when taxis were like hens teeth and could dictate conditions and has no bearing whatsoever in the current market conditions.

hardCopy

Jaysoose wrote: »

This argument would hold water if every taxi was constantly in use and they were turning away work when en route to a fare, we all know the reality is quite the opposite. So a taxi that has been sitting idle and driving around all day is suddenly turning away custom in the 5 minutes it takes to pick up a booked fare? Its a charge dreamt up when taxis were like hens teeth and could dictate conditions and has no bearing whatsoever in the current market conditions.

There is some truth to it in that they really need to knock off 20-30 minutes beforehand in case they pick up a long fare just before the one they've booked.

Losty Dublin

Jaysoose wrote: »

This argument would hold water if every taxi was constantly in use and they were turning away work when en route to a fare, we all know the reality is quite the opposite. So a taxi that has been sitting idle and driving around all day is suddenly turning away custom in the 5 minutes it takes to pick up a booked fare? Its a charge dreamt up when taxis were like hens teeth and could dictate conditions and has no bearing whatsoever in the current market conditions.

The busy time for booked cabs are about the same as those on the street; ie weekend nights, Xmas, match or festival days or bad weather so it holds up that you would reasonably turn down fares to get to them.

The other mainstay of booked cabs are for account fares or for hospital runs, runs to transport hubs and/or when people have a lot of bags, workers going to meetings/interviews, people going to parties or weddings and are dolled up that have stuff to carry or documents that needs safer carrying, parcel deliveries etc. These would be some types of fares that can't exactly hail one on the street as easily or even not at all so you are paying for convenience.

bk

This is why I use the 20% off guys. I get the convenience of having the taxi come to me, with non of the cost of it.

To be honest I agree that this booking charge is nonsense. In the overcrowded market we have with a taxi no more then 5 minutes away from one of the large radio companies, I think there is zero chance that a taxi would have picked up another fare in that 5 minutes heading to the call.

If this charge was done away with, then people would be much more likely to book a taxi rather then go out on the street to hail one down. Therefore taxi drivers could remain parked up, waiting for a booking, rather then driving around wasting petrol, hoping to be hailed.

Would be better for both taxi drivers and customers.

Jaysoose

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The busy time for booked cabs are about the same as those on the street; ie weekend nights, Xmas, match or festival days or bad weather so it holds up that you would reasonably turn down fares to get to them.

The other mainstay of booked cabs are for account fares or for hospital runs, runs to transport hubs and/or when people have a lot of bags, workers going to meetings/interviews, people going to parties or weddings and are dolled up that have stuff to carry or documents that needs safer carrying, parcel deliveries etc. These would be some types of fares that can't exactly hail one on the street as easily or even not at all so you are paying for convenience.

Maybe ten years ago you would have a point, have you seen the amount of cabs sitting waiting around dublin city centre on a saturday night? Its a practice that may have made sense a few years ago but there is no way it can be justified at present.

Losty Dublin

Jaysoose wrote: »

Maybe ten years ago you would have a point, have you seen the amount of cabs sitting waiting around dublin city centre on a saturday night? Its a practice that may have made sense a few years ago but there is no way it can be justified at present.

My point here was that booked and street hailed cabs have a common busy period; it's relevant regardless of how many cabs there is.

n97 mini

I don't use taxis unless it's really an emergency as they're just too expensive.

The fare structure doesn't help or instill confidence either. I only recently learned that once you go over 14km that the meter automatically flips to a 30% higher rate per km, and if you go more than 30km it flips up to a rate almost 75% higher.

This really punishes people living in the burbs.

Outkast_IRE

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't use taxis unless it's really an emergency as they're just too expensive.

The fare structure doesn't help or instill confidence either. I only recently learned that once you go over 14km that the meter automatically flips to a 30% higher rate per km, and if you go more than 30km it flips up to a rate almost 75% higher.

This really punishes people living in the burbs.

14km out shouldnt be considered the burbs in my view, it should be considered another town.

wexford12

Maybe its just me but most fares I get in Dublin rarely come to more than €10-15. In Wex you are lucky to get above €7 and on that your told I only pay €5 Lad lol the drivers down here have ruined it for everyone

n97 mini

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

14km out shouldnt be considered the burbs in my view, it should be considered another town.

Plenty of places outside a 14km radius of O'Connell Bridge.

If it has a regular Dublin Bus route, or a DART/Commuter rail service then it shouldn't incur a higher rate.

oisindoyle

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't use taxis unless it's really an emergency as they're just too expensive.

The fare structure doesn't help or instill confidence either. I only recently learned that once you go over 14km that the meter automatically flips to a 30% higher rate per km, and if you go more than 30km it flips up to a rate almost 75% higher.

This really punishes people living in the burbs.

You sure about that as in actual fact or myth

dorkacle

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

This i truely belive is the best soloution with a medium term view, its obvious the market is past saturation in many areas, i would say for every new licence given out another taxi driver ends up jacking it in and on the dole.

Thes guys want to work not to be sitting on ranks all day , with others circling blocking traffic, if the regulator had any clue whatsoever it would try and stop new licences being issued, and spend its time doing more enforcement and weeding out some of the bad apples.

I see the point being made here and also agree somewhat, but many also forget the nightmare it used to be to get a taxi in Dublin only a couple of years back.

Taxi men could pick and choose where and when they wanted to work as they were nearly guaranteed the work due to the shortage of taxis on the road. Arguably why so many licences have been given out in recent times, literally sometimes it was a joke trying to get a taxi.

On plenty of occasions I ended up walking home from the city centre as there was not enough taxi's available. It is a service and at the end of the day, and seeing as I am a consumer, I am also happy to have a choice of taxi's when I leave town. In that sense the service has improved dramatically.

Don't get me wrong however, I'm not trying to deny something has to be done to help these people make a living.

n97 mini

oisindoyle wrote: »

You sure about that as in actual fact or myth

I thought you worked in the industry?



Page 4
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/taxi-reg/review-national-maximum-taxi-fare.pdf

Outkast_IRE

dorkacle wrote: »

I see the point being made here and also agree somewhat, but many also forget the nightmare it used to be to get a taxi in Dublin only a couple of years back.

Taxi men could pick and choose where and when they wanted to work as they were nearly guaranteed the work due to the shortage of taxis on the road. Arguably why so many licences have been given out in recent times, literally sometimes it was a joke trying to get a taxi.

On plenty of occasions I ended up walking home from the city centre as there was not enough taxi's available. It is a service and at the end of the day, and seeing as I am a consumer, I am also happy to have a choice of taxi's when I leave town. In that sense the service has improved dramatically.

Don't get me wrong however, I'm not trying to deny something has to be done to help these people make a living.

Nobody wants to go back to those days of queueing for hours for a taxi, but to go to the complete opposite end of the spectrum altogether is madness. There has to be a favourable middle ground for all parties.

To me this middleground would be stop issueing new licences , start carrying out more inspections and taking complaints more seriously and weed out some of the badapples.

bk

Ironically the taxi drivers have no one but themselves and their unions to blame for the current mess.

In the past everyone knew that there weren't enough taxis. The government wanted to slowly and gradually increase the number of taxis to meet the demand.

However the taxi drivers and their unions were having non of it. They were making way too much money, with taxi plates changing hands for more then a house!!

So instead of a gradual and controlled increase in the number of taxis, the government was forced to deregulate the industry and the flood gates was opened to everyone.

Even more ironically many of the taxi drivers who complain actually became drivers after deregulation. They got in because of deregulation, but they now what the door closed behind them.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

So instead of a gradual and controlled increase in the number of taxis, the government was forced to deregulate the industry and the flood gates was opened to everyone.

There's a bit more to it than that.

11:30pm and public transport stopped. The taxi industry was deregulated to solve the problem, whereas there should have been an extension of public transport services and a controlled deregulation of the taxi industry, to best suit the needs of the consumer.

foggy_lad

n97 mini wrote: »

There's a bit more to it than that.

11:30pm and public transport stopped. The taxi industry was deregulated to solve the problem, whereas there should have been an extension of public transport services and a controlled deregulation of the taxi industry, to best suit the needs of the consumer.

But the extension of public transport such as buses and dart and trains would have cost the state a lot of money while deregulation of the taxi industry cost very little.

bk

I agree it is a disgraceful that we don't have a 24/7, normal priced, normal stopping bus service like most capital cities around the world have.

But as Foggy says, that would have cost the government a lot more then just deregulating the taxi industry to expensively handle the night time business :mad:

n97 mini

The public transport system could have been vastly improved for less than the cost of a 6-month budget over run in the HSE (€280m).

The exchequer had plenty of money, it was just wasted in the wrong areas.

wexford12

Yes you could lay the blame with Taxi drivers for this mess we are all in or you could blame the regulator for going from one extreme to another. Who with any brain in their head would let all these taxis out on the road of this small country.
As far as i can see it came down to money €6500. + every charge each year to keep taxi on the road which was not able to be claimed on your tax bill because its an assett and can be sold. Or so we thought I see they are now bringing in that all plates cannot be sold on of passed on etc.
I came into this business many years ago and its not my fault that they gave away thousands of plates to everybody who came into this land or social welfare system of ours That may sound harsh or even that I have something against coloured people " not true" I don't blame them I blame the system. I don't belive for one second most foreign drivers passed the test...

hardCopy

wexford12 wrote: »

Yes you could lay the blame with Taxi drivers for this mess we are all in or you could blame the regulator for going from one extreme to another. Who with any brain in their head would let all these taxis out on the road of this small country.
As far as i can see it came down to money €6500. + every charge each year to keep taxi on the road which was not able to be claimed on your tax bill because its an assett and can be sold. Or so we thought I see they are now bringing in that all plates cannot be sold on of passed on etc.
I came into this business many years ago and its not my fault that they gave away thousands of plates to everybody who came into this land or social welfare system of ours That may sound harsh or even that I have something against coloured people " not true" I don't blame them I blame the system. I don't belive for one second most foreign drivers passed the test...

But why do we need to put a limit on the number of taxis though? We don't need a limit on the number of newsagents, why should taxis be any different?

mickoneill30

hardCopy wrote: »

But why do we need to put a limit on the number of taxis though? We don't need a limit on the number of newsagents, why should taxis be any different?

The barrier to entry for a newsagent would be quite a bit more than the cost of starting as a taxi driver I'd say.

markpb

mickoneill30 wrote: »

The barrier to entry for a newsagent would be quite a bit more than the cost of starting as a taxi driver I'd say.

Does that make a difference? Why should the government regulate entry into one industry but not others?

mickoneill30

markpb wrote: »

Does that make a difference? Why should the government regulate entry into one industry but not others?

It's obviously making a difference. I haven't gone out recently to see 10 newsagents in a row. You asked why, when there's no limit on newsagents should there be a limit on taxis. The barrier to entry self regulates new newsagents setting up.

If taxis are making less than minimum wage or minimum wage because there are so many of them then I don't imagine the service to me (the customer) is going to be great.

markpb

mickoneill30 wrote: »

It's obviously making a difference. I haven't gone out recently to see 10 newsagents in a row.

What about waste collection companies? There are plenty of those around, should we regulate them so there aren't so many? Once you decide to regulate entry into an industry, where do you stop? Are there too many software developers?