Waterford City Council to vote on public drinking bye-laws

Sully

You may have spotted this a while ago, but its in the news again in Waterford today as the People Before Profit in Waterford are objecting to it because it "a vulnerable section of society".

Drinking in public is already illegal, but new bye-laws would allow the city to levy on the spot fines to offenders.Fine Gael City Councillor John Cummins says the laws are fair and equal.He also says they will assist in residential estates affected by anti-social behaviour.However the laws have been criticised by the People Before Profit organisation.Their spokesman John Cloono says it targets a vulnerable section of society.

Source: http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/156261.html

Personally, I fail to see how it does. How is one who drinks on the street part of a "vulnerable section of society"?! I don't see any problem with the Gardai telling people in Waterford to stop drinking on the streets or be fined Waterford is suffering a lot from anti-social behaviour, especially with students. These laws could only help curb the problem.

ziedth

I'd have two concerns:

Smoking areas like the Kazbar, would they be effected?

Things like BBQ's in an Estate if your walking between houses or with kids out the front and you have your bottle.

If both these aren't effected I'd be all for it. The vulnerable section of society line is both bewildering and nonsense....

calvin_zola

id like to see them try and enforce it during a festival like the tall ships etc when a lot including tourists etc are floating around with plastic cups and cans during the day...

Sully

calvin_zola wrote: »

id like to see them try and enforce it during a festival like the tall ships etc when a lot including tourists etc are floating around with plastic cups and cans during the day...

There are exemptions for festivals usually.

Professey Chin

calvin_zola wrote: »

id like to see them try and enforce it during a festival like the tall ships etc when a lot including tourists etc are floating around with plastic cups and cans during the day...

Theyre by laws and can be relaxed for public festivals like the tall-ships and spraoi.
Smoking areas are private property so wouldnt be affected.

I think theyre needed. Any sniff of sun and you automatically have scang shirts off in public greens like ballybricken just being an intimidating nuisance. And since we're not allowed shoot them this will have to do

S28382

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Any sniff of sun and you automatically have scang shirts off in public greens like ballybricken just being an intimidating nuisance. And since we're not allowed shoot them this will have to do

God yeah they have their shirts off trackie bottoms tucked into their socks, baseball caps barely on their heads all the while holding the same can of warm dutch gold for an hour.

Nypd

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

calvin_zola wrote: »

id like to see them try and enforce it during a festival like the tall ships etc when a lot including tourists etc are floating around with plastic cups and cans during the day...

Theyre by laws and can be relaxed for public festivals like the tall-ships and spraoi.
Smoking areas are private property so wouldnt be affected.

I think theyre needed. Any sniff of sun and you automatically have scang shirts off in public greens like ballybricken just being an intimidating nuisance. And since we're not allowed shoot them this will have to do

The Kazbar smoking area would be a public area wouldn't it ?
It's a foot path I'm fairness.

BlaasForRafa

I'd have two concerns:

Smoking areas like the Kazbar, would they be effected?

Things like BBQ's in an Estate if your walking between houses or with kids out the front and you have your bottle.

I'd hope that the cops would be able to use common sense in such situations. I doubt that they'd come in Judge Dredd style and start smacking heads at the local summer barbecue

If both these aren't effected I'd be all for it. The vulnerable section of society line is both bewildering and nonsense...

People before profit are just doing their usual protest for the sake of it shtick, "its a capitalist conspiracy against the workin class mate!"

Professey Chin

Nypd wrote: »

The Kazbar smoking area would be a public area wouldn't it ?
It's a foot path I'm fairness.

Its cordoned off so I would guess they have some control over the area like the front of revolution

Sully

Nypd wrote: »

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

calvin_zola wrote: »

id like to see them try and enforce it during a festival like the tall ships etc when a lot including tourists etc are floating around with plastic cups and cans during the day...

Theyre by laws and can be relaxed for public festivals like the tall-ships and spraoi.
Smoking areas are private property so wouldnt be affected.

I think theyre needed. Any sniff of sun and you automatically have scang shirts off in public greens like ballybricken just being an intimidating nuisance. And since we're not allowed shoot them this will have to do

The Kazbar smoking area would be a public area wouldn't it ?
It's a foot path I'm fairness.

Doubt it would apply to that area! Otherwise the bar would have been told to lockup along time ago!

THall04

If it goes through.......
(taken from www.waterfordcity.ie/documents/.../byelaws2012-draftdocument.doc)

Some places you won't be able to drink

(a) a place to which the public normally can and do have access, to include open spaces, public parks, green spaces and amenity areas, car parks, parking places, appointed taxi stand, including boardwalk’s, rivers, river banks and towpaths, playgrounds, pitches, walkways and such like places.
(b) any public highway, footpath, footway or road in the functional area

(c) any outdoor area, premises or other place to which members of the public have or are permitted to have access, whether as of right, as a trespasser or by express or implied invitation, permission or otherwise, or whether on payment or otherwise.

(d) any cemetery, church, churchyard or their curtilage

(e) any place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge

(f) anywhere else contiguous with any of the foregoing and/or as may be designated as a “public place” under any other enactment

(g) any part of the foreshore and any coastal waters within or adjoining the functional area

Some places you can have a drink

a) a private house or dwelling or the garden or curtilage of such house or dwelling only in so far as concerns any activity of the owner or occupier or of a person therein or thereon as of right or with the express or implied permission of the owner or occupier;

b) any premises licensed for the consumption of intoxicating liquor during the hours authorised for sale and consumption of Intoxicating Liquor pursuant to the Licensing Acts 1833 to 2008 as amended, adapted or extended by or under any subsequent enactment;


c) any tables and chairs outside a hotel, restaurant or public house or other such premises which are designated by the Minister as defined by the (Planning and Development) Act 2000

The fine
The amount of the fixed payment is €75.00 or such other sum as may be prescribed from time to time under Regulations by the Minister for the Environment, Community & Local Government in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by Sections 4, 200 and 206 of the Local Government Act 2001 and the said fixed payment must be paid within 21 days of the date of service of such notice in order to avoid prosecution.

Exceptions
11Notwithstanding the provisions of these Bye-Laws the City Manager (or such person(s) authorised by him ), on an application being made to him prior to the occasion of such occasion or event may at his discretion and after consultation with the Gardai relax the provisions of these Bye-Laws in whole or in part on the occasion of:


(i) major civic celebrations

(ii) major sporting events.

(iii) Special community events.

12 A person who contravenes a provision of these Bye-Laws shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction for that offence to a fine not exceeding €1,900.

Sully

The bits about where you can and cant drink - is that in addition to the existing laws which ban you from drinking on the street?

Professey Chin

Looks fine to me!

christmas2012

clean up the streets ya i think its a fair thing to do might cut out public order offences and minor scuffles or near to fatal ones if it does well then i would welcome it no end..

jayboi

what happens if they refuse to pay? a summons? or will the money be stoped out of their dole/college grant?

AdMMM

Cans in the park will soon be a thing of the past

TheGormog

Fair play to the City Council on this, long overdue. It's simply no longer acceptable to turn a blind eye to street drinking in the city centre when we're trying to establish ourselves as a genuine tourist destination. For a tourist visiting the city the sight (and indeed smell) of the seasoned street drinkers must be extremely unnerving to say the least. This is not to mention the shouting, fighting, abuse, urination, defecation, etc, etc.

Some of the scenes you'd witness in broad daylight would put the frighteners on Chuck Norris, nevermind your garden variety American tourist.

echosound

Sully wrote: »

How is one who drinks on the street part of a "vulnerable section of society"?!

I'm assuming they're probably thinking of the likes of pretty harmless winos and/or homeless having a few cans. Everyone seems to have a soft spot for the likes of Tawdy etc on this forum, people like that won't be able to continue to have a can or two sitting on the side of the road if this comes in.

Not much point fining someone who's not got much in the way of cash as it is, or who's address is a hostel or a doorway.That's the point they're making about vunerable sections of society, I would assume, rather than the "working class" or "students" or whatever.


On one hand, I can see the advantages to this - curb little pigeonchested scummers grabbing flagons and heading for greens/city centre whenever there's a bit of sunshine and acting the maggot, curb students causing disturbances in estates with parties spilling out onto the street, etc, but then again, it's a pity that a minority of idiots have to ruin things for the majority of normal well adjusted people who might simply like to have a cold beer or whatever sitting out having a bit of an aul' picnic or BBQ etc on a sunny Sunday or something.

jayboi

criticised by the People Before Profit organisation.Their spokesman John Cloono

A 'Kiss of Death' to any opposition

THall04

Sully wrote: »

The bits about where you can and cant drink - is that in addition to the existing laws which ban you from drinking on the street?

Don't know about the existing laws.....a while back I was surprised to find out that there is no national legislation prohibiting drinking in public.....each local authority has to make it's own laws.....so I had a look on the City Councils site...couldn't find anything (found the Dublin City by-laws OK.....the new Waterford law looks like a copy of it).

THall04

http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/17053-opposed-to-bye-law-prohibiting-on-street-drinking-17053.html

In the 27th June edition of Waterford Today , People Before Profit suggested a way the city councillors could help street drinkers........

" A start can be made by providing accomondation where people who wish to consume alcohol can do so under regulated conditions"

I think thats called a PUB.........:rolleyes:

nkay1985

So long as they don't enforce it during Spraoi, I'm happy with it.

spankmemunkey

Parents have alot to answer for when it comes to the current drink problems we have today,

Parents go to the pub regularly to consume alcohol and lets face it get drunk to some degree or another, kids see this when they get home, they also see parents drinking at home which is another no no, kids pick up on this and think its acceptable behaviour, pretty much in the same way as seing parents smoking, monkey see monkey do, how can you tell your kids not to drink when your sitting back of an evening drinking beer in front of them?
Parents these days give in to peer pressure and allow their kids drink before they are 18 i think cos other kids parents allow them to,

Ireland whole culture and society revolves around a drink culture.

Psychedelic

Do ye think the Gardai will enforce this bye-law? Because if they don't it won't make any difference. I can't see them fining the likes of "My Town" and his scummy friends no matter how much they go drinking and abuse passers-by. These drunken bozos are constantly reported to the Gardai but they are in the city centre nearly every day of the week openly drinking and shouting abuse at people.

I don't think people should be worried about Gardai fining a couple sharing a bottle of wine at a picnic in the People's Park or anything like that.

Discretion is the key word here - hopefully the Gardai use it and just fine the scummy old tramps and young chavs.

wellboytoo

I would like to think that this new law will enable the Gardaí to confiscate alcohol from offenders which would be enough of a fine for the winos etc and probably the underage kids on the park.the object it's to stop the rowdy behavior not to raise revenue.

Potential-Monke

Nypd wrote: »

The Kazbar smoking area would be a public area wouldn't it ?
It's a foot path I'm fairness.

They pay a certain amount to the city council to have that area cordoned off at certain times so that it's an extension to the premises, so while it's cordoned off it's property of the Kazbar. Same for coffee shops/restaurants that have seating outside, each table/chair has a set cost which has to be paid to the council. Well, that's the way it used to be when i was working in a restaurant, and it aint cheap!

As for this, it's a good thing, common sense would be used, and the ability to seize the alcohol would definitely deter some. Can't see any down side to it, and if the "vulnerable" want to drink, they should do so in the comfort of their own homes/gardens, not in the middle of a green/on someones wall.

Max Powers

Potential-Monke wrote: »

As for this, it's a good thing, common sense would be used, and the ability to seize the alcohol would definitely deter some. Can't see any down side to it, and if the "vulnerable" want to drink, they should do so in the comfort of their own homes/gardens, not in the middle of a green/on someones wall.

Pity the gardai are only interested in seizing booze from kids; but they dont go near any of the older alcos shouting abuse at passers by, urinating on the street, intimidating people/tourists etc

Potential-Monke

Max Powers wrote: »

Pity the gardai are only interested in seizing booze from kids; but they dont go near any of the older alcos shouting abuse at passers by, urinating on the street, intimidating people/tourists etc

When they come across kids under 18 with alcohol, not one of them will admit to owning the closed drink as they would then be admitting guilt, so the alcohol is taken off them. With adults, only open drinks can currently be taken, so the closed drinks cannot. As for the male you're referring to (we all know who), he has been arrested on numerous occassions, but like a bad cold you can't get rid of him.

And if you're referring to the recent case in the media, i'm sure you understand that it's not a common occurrence, as most of the Gardai i know would not drink cans taken from scummers, regardless of the brand.

xperi

so now any good day we get this summer & we bring a picnic to the park with the familyi cant have 1 bottle of beer or face a fine, typical of this country clobber everyone to get at a few scumbags causing trouble, thats why i wont ever holiday in this horrible country , had to leave a hotel bar at 9pm because i got 2 daughters under 18 that were sitting quietly while were all having dinner & a quiet drink, girls were having a cokes lol. then where do we go at 9pm ?. idiots running this place, spain here we come next week, spend my money where our family are welcome

spankmemunkey

I think the state of our drinking problems in Ireland no parents should drink in front of their kids! If you didnt want them to smoke you wouldnt smoke in front of them, You wouldnt do a line of coke in front of them!

Alcohol is a dangerous drug and Irish people have such a relaxed attitude towards it, I wouldnt drink alcohol in front of my kids, Parents have alot to answer for the current problem.

Potential-Monke

xperi wrote: »

so now any good day we get this summer & we bring a picnic to the park with the familyi cant have 1 bottle of beer or face a fine, typical of this country clobber everyone to get at a few scumbags causing trouble, thats why i wont ever holiday in this horrible country , had to leave a hotel bar at 9pm because i got 2 daughters under 18 that were sitting quietly while were all having dinner & a quiet drink, girls were having a cokes lol. then where do we go at 9pm ?. idiots running this place, spain here we come next week, spend my money where our family are welcome

Ah here, the one good thing to come out of the ban on under 18's in a pub is knowing that should i magically manage to lob the gob on some young wan while highly inebriated i can sleep (possibly with her) soundly knowing that she should be over 18!

deisedave

xperi wrote: »

so now any good day we get this summer & we bring a picnic to the park with the familyi cant have 1 bottle of beer or face a fine, typical of this country clobber everyone to get at a few scumbags causing trouble, thats why i wont ever holiday in this horrible country , had to leave a hotel bar at 9pm because i got 2 daughters under 18 that were sitting quietly while were all having dinner & a quiet drink, girls were having a cokes lol. then where do we go at 9pm ?. idiots running this place, spain here we come next week, spend my money where our family are welcome

Well, we cant have one law for you and another for young lads drinking so you need to just enjoy your picnic without a beer not that big of a deal. I would happily welcome the ban on drinking outdoors some people can do without causing trouble but we cant let some people drink and not others.

spankmemunkey

Irish People and Ireland are crippled by Alcohol problems, for the sake of our youth i think parents at least should be responisble and be able to go without a beer,

Its a CHRONIC problem, so parents just go without and try and break a habit of a lifetime for our kids sake.

Irish people use alcohol to socialize its a social lubricant, young men and women dont know how to speak to each other until they have a drink and its a choice that continues as they get older, take away the alcohol and they arent able to socialise on a normal basis.

Potential-Monke

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Irish people use alcohol to socialize its a social lubricant, young men and women dont know how to speak to each other until they have a drink and its a choice that continues as they get older, take away the alcohol and they arent able to socialise on a normal basis.

You seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet regarding alcohol?!

And not all young men/women go out and get plastered every weekend. Yes, there is a high percentage, but nowhere near levels that it used to be (one positive aspect of the recession). I know plenty of people who don't drink but socialise and do activites.

Hoffmans

did a group of vintners not lobby the councillers to pass this bye law, hoping it would help their failing businesses.............

well its passed now back to the 90s ques to get in to the "old rogue" and the like.....

nkay1985

This law is currently being enforced on The Plaza. Ridiculous.

Hoffmans

nkay1985 wrote: »

This law is currently being enforced on The Plaza. Ridiculous.

aah now its the law, lock em up i say, down with that sort a thing....

jennygirl

from what ive seen on the plaza, its the scumbags getting the drink taken and fined.....the respectable ppl lets alone to enjoy the gig

nkay1985

jennygirl wrote: »

from what ive seen on the plaza, its the scumbags getting the drink taken and fined.....the respectable ppl lets alone to enjoy the gig

Nope, she went around to anybody who had drink. And seemingly you get a warning before anything happens.

deisedave

nkay1985 wrote: »

Nope, she went around to anybody who had drink. And seemingly you get a warning before anything happens.

Good in fairness, I don't agree with drinking on the streets at all. Hopefully the law is upheld and people don't use the spraoi as an excuse to get wasted out in the streets.

Jason Todd

deisedave wrote: »

Good in fairness, I don't agree with drinking on the streets at all. Hopefully the law is upheld and people don't use the spraoi as an excuse to get wasted out in the streets.

Does this mean I can't drink in the open at Spraoi at all now? I was planning on bringing a large red plastic cup or two and just filling that with beer from my rucksack for the night.

Some pain in the hole if I can't even do that. The dopes are ruining it for the rest of us. I rarely ever drink, and the one weekend of the year I always like a few cans has been ruined now.

nkay1985

deisedave wrote: »

Good in fairness, I don't agree with drinking on the streets at all. Hopefully the law is upheld and people don't use the spraoi as an excuse to get wasted out in the streets.

I have to say I don't see the harm in sensible people having a couple of drinks while watching street acts. I have no problem with guards stopping people who have twenty cans or big groups of people who are potentially a nuisance but I think people should be allowed to have a couple of drinks on an occasion like this.

deisedave

nkay1985 wrote: »

I have to say I don't see the harm in sensible people having a couple of drinks while watching street acts. I have no problem with guards stopping people who have twenty cans or big groups of people who are potentially a nuisance but I think people should be allowed to have a couple of drinks on an occasion like this.

Why should they be allowed to drink at a family event, is there not something wrong if a event like this cant be enjoyed without alcohol?

Jason Todd

deisedave wrote: »

Why should they be allowed to drink at a family event, is there not something wrong if a event like this cant be enjoyed without alcohol?

Spraoi has plenty of family friendly events where drinking doesn't go on. Like I said earlier, I rarely drink, I rarely even go to town anymore, I find drunk people falling around more and more depressing as I get older, but... I still like a drink or two on Spraoi weekend, I do family things friday night and sunday night, so why shouldn't I have a drink on the Saturday? And in any event, street drinking happens all year round, not just at Spraoi, something should be done about that moreso, it's far more anti-social than public drinking at Spraoi.

deisedave

Jason Todd wrote: »

Spraoi has plenty of family friendly events where drinking doesn't go on. Like I said earlier, I rarely drink, I rarely even go to town anymore, I find drunk people falling around more and more depressing as I get older, but... I still like a drink or two on Spraoi weekend, I do family things friday night and sunday night, so why shouldn't I have a drink on the Saturday? And in any event, street drinking happens all year round, not just at Spraoi, something should be done about that moreso, it's far more anti-social than public drinking at Spraoi.

Your right it should be banned all year round

Paully D

I give it 6 months.

Hoffmans

dunno what that parade thing was all about, clowns dressed as the undertaker pouring water over the crowd,some child and its buggy got soaked just beside us ,the clown was lucky he kept running say he was a canditate for a conamara, the acrid smoke topped it all of pure weird
....

Jason Todd

Hoffmans wrote: »

dunno what that parade thing was all about, clowns dressed as the undertaker pouring water over the crowd,some child and its buggy got soaked just beside us ,the clown was lucky he kept running say he was a canditate for a conamara, the acrid smoke topped it all of pure weird
....

I know what you're saying, there didn't seem to be a definite 'theme' running throughout the parade, but I thought everything looked good and was finished to a high standard. It moved at the right pace and the music was great!Well done everyone involved!

Disclaimer: I maybe am drunk right now. :pac:

nkay1985

deisedave wrote: »

Why should they be allowed to drink at a family event, is there not something wrong if a event like this cant be enjoyed without alcohol?

Because it's a person's personal choice whether to have a drink or not. By that reasoning, parents should, by law, never be allowed to drink because they have kids to take care of. Or family parties should be non-alcoholic beverages only because there are kids involved!

It's not like people go to the juggling acts or stuff like that with a drink. It's watching the local bands on the Plaza, which is mainly adult-orientated.

I can enjoy things fine without drink but I don't see why I should have to instances like this. I don't really drink but I always love having a couple of pints sitting outside and listening to the bands. It does nobody any harm.

nicolaed

nkay1985 wrote: »

Because it's a person's personal choice whether to have a drink or not. By that reasoning, parents should, by law, never be allowed to drink because they have kids to take care of. Or family parties should be non-alcoholic beverages only because there are kids involved!

It's not like people go to the juggling acts or stuff like that with a drink. It's watching the local bands on the Plaza, which is mainly adult-orientated.

I can enjoy things fine without drink but I don't see why I should have to instances like this. I don't really drink but I always love having a couple of pints sitting outside and listening to the bands. It does nobody any harm .

Are you sure?

nkay1985

nicolaed wrote: »

Are you sure?

Thanks very much for your insightful contribution...