US laws prevent the use of welfare in liquor stores and gambling establishments

crapmanjoe

USA has passed a federal law requiring all states to come up with system / laws / legislation to prevent the use of welfare in liquor stores, gambling establishments and adult entertainment businesses by 2014.

Do not want to get into a dole bashing argument here but if this can be implemented in the US across 50 different states surely it can be implemented here.

Social welfare can be lodged into a special account for the recipient, cash withdrawals are prevented, receipents just use their card (or wire transfers for bills, rent etc) and the cards use is banned in certain locations.

Anyway brief highlight of the story and a link to the full article

"Under a new federal law, all states must prevent the use of cash benefits in liquor stores, gambling establishments and adult entertainment businesses by 2014. States that fail to establish policies face cuts in federal support.

Welfare recipients use debit cards to buy things or get cash at ATMs. A report by the House Ways and Means committee cited news reports in eight states about people with welfare debit cards withdrawing thousands of dollars from ATMs in casinos, liquor stores and strip clubs. The report did not estimate how often that happened or how much money was involved




http://content.usatoday.com/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=hattiesburgamerican&sParam=56100508.story

Biggins

Yay for America!

"...But America's bad!"

O' :eek:

...Boooo for America!

Tombi!

So all it does it creates more crime and people selling food stamps (I assume it's that) to get cash for alcohol?

Or even if it's a kind of "spend these magical dollars on food only" all the welfare folks do is buy whatever, sell that for cash and buy booze.

Jesus Shaves

How would I get drunk everyday then?

Dartz

Yet again, the idiotic minority and the self rightepous right ruin everything for the rest of us who just want to have five minutes to ****ing relax with the cash we've managed to save at the end of the week, either through careful purchases or good bloody luck and chance..

Nothing about this law will stop someone on welfare from gambling, enjoying adult entertainment, or drinking..... it'll just make it far more expensive.

Prohibition doesn't work. It just makes arrogant politico's feel better about themselves.

It's also a bit **** if the only working ATM is the one in the off license, isn't it?

christmas2012

Do not want to get into a dole bashing argument here but if this can be implemented in the US across 50 different states surely it can be implemented here.

Are you proposing welfare supermarket stamps like walmart etc,where some supermarkets have the gravy train of welfare customers,while others lose out?Not to mention taking someones dignity of choice away..

El Weirdo

Fuck it, lets just let the dole scum live on Soylent Green and have it done with.


:rolleyes:

Sunnyisland

christmas 2012 wrote: »

Are you proposing welfare supermarket stamps like walmart etc,where some supermarkets have the gravy train of welfare customers,while others lose out?Not to mention taking someones dignity of choice away..

Christmas2012 I am getting addicted to your posts,Fair play to ya

Lapin

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

How would I get drunk everyday then?

Easy -

Use your welfare card to get your neighbours weekly shopping.

Your neighbour gives you cash in return.

You then head to the pub with the cash for ales and jigs.

Horse...stable door.....

golden lane

crapmanjoe wrote: »

USA has passed a federal law requiring all states to come up with system / laws / legislation to prevent the use of welfare in liquor stores, gambling establishments and adult entertainment businesses by 2014.

Do not want to get into a dole bashing argument here but if this can be implemented in the US across 50 different states surely it can be implemented here.

Social welfare can be lodged into a special account for the recipient, cash withdrawals are prevented, receipents just use their card (or wire transfers for bills, rent etc) and the cards use is banned in certain locations.

Anyway brief highlight of the story and a link to the full article

"Under a new federal law, all states must prevent the use of cash benefits in liquor stores, gambling establishments and adult entertainment businesses by 2014. States that fail to establish policies face cuts in federal support.

Welfare recipients use debit cards to buy things or get cash at ATMs. A report by the House Ways and Means committee cited news reports in eight states about people with welfare debit cards withdrawing thousands of dollars from ATMs in casinos, liquor stores and strip clubs. The report did not estimate how often that happened or how much money was involved






http://content.usatoday.com/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=hattiesburgamerican&sParam=56100508.story[/QUOTE]


great idea in theory....but it leave open a lot of avenues for misure......and for sharks to make a killing...

gaffer91

What if someone on the dole just enjoys a few cans at the weekend? Depending on the drink that could be easily under €10. Should this not be allowed? Or someone on the dole who is going to meet a girl/boy for dinner and wants to bring a bottle of wine or the like?

****ing stupid law. The way some people look down their noses at people on the dole is pathetic.

V_Moth

El Weirdo wrote: »

Fuck it, lets just let the dole scum live on Soylent Green and have it done with.


:rolleyes:

Even better, turn them into Soylent Green to feed our Entrepreneurs.

Biggins

I just wish they would own up and tell us that little aliens are amid us!

* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/08/roswell-ufo-cia-agent-chase-brandon_n_1657077.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2170831/Roswell-UFO-landing-CIA-agent-Chase-Brandon-speaks-65th-anniversary.html

Chuck Stone

Bastards.

They're trying to police the behaviour of the poor while the robber baron scum who almost collapsed the world economy get away scot free.

The US needs a fucking revolution.

mattjack

realies wrote: »

Christmas2012 I am getting addicted to your posts,Fair play to ya

Thank fuck , I'm not the only one.

Red Crow

Welfare money shouldn't be used for alcohol or gambling anyway.

Our system is a joke anyway. When a man is better off living off the state than working in it there is something horribly wrong.

The system allows itself to be abused. A rigorous means test should be involved and anybody under 23 living with there parents should get less than 50 euro a week.

I hope the welfare is slashed.

vard

I can't believe there are people beginning to defend dole money being spent on drink.

I'm self employed; I can't afford nights out. I can just about afford food and transport. I'm one of many, yet still an insanely delusional few believe that their drinking habits should be paid for by people like us who can't afford the same luxuries they treat as entitlements.

There is a serious problem with this mentality in Ireland. With attitudes like this becoming the norm, I'm beginning to fear for the little chance we have of recovery.

Red Crow

gaffer91 wrote: »

What if someone on the dole just enjoys a few cans at the weekend? Depending on the drink that could be easily under €10. Should this not be allowed? Or someone on the dole who is going to meet a girl/boy for dinner and wants to bring a bottle of wine or the like?

****ing stupid law. The way some people look down their noses at people on the dole is pathetic.

No, the state should not have to pay for alcohol for people. This country is embarrassing with attitudes like this.

mattjack

Eli Manning wrote: »

Welfare money shouldn't be used for alcohol or gambling anyway.

Our system is a joke anyway. When a man is better off living off the state than working in it there is something horribly wrong.

The system allows itself to be abused. A rigorous means test should be involved and anybody under 23 living with there parents should get less than 50 euro a week.

I hope the welfare is slashed.

Are you telling me I've to be sober collecting the dole .

Jesus Shaves

vard wrote: »

their drinking habits should be paid for by people like us

:rolleyes:

Pedant

If it were me who has the say I would limit welfare (especially dole) to coupons for various essentials, like food coupons, medical care and stationary coupons to help with writing up CVs. The degree of freedom one has with their dole would be relative to their PRSI contribution.

mattjack

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I'll see your one and raise ya two..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

starviewadams

Pedant wrote: »

If it were me who has the say I would limit welfare (especially dole) to coupons for various essentials, like food coupons and medical care.

Well thank christ it isn't you then!

Lyaiera

Pedant wrote: »

If it were me who has the say I would limit welfare (especially dole) to coupons for various essentials, like food coupons and medical care.

Medical care!?! If they're not working they're not contributing so why should they be entitled to a healthy life?

Ellis Dee

Why not just lock them up in workhouses and control every morsel they eat, every drop (of water only, naturally) they drink, what rags they wear, how often they wash and with what kind of soap, make them sleep in gender-segregated dormitories ---:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yessir, the USA can play a pioneering role here and we'll all line up to follow their example.;);)

--- And wonder why no one ever thought of it before.:):)

Jesus Shaves

mattjack wrote: »

I'll see your one and raise ya two..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'll see your 2 and offer you 2 food vouchers in lieu of 1 rollseyes smiley

Red Crow

Lyaiera wrote: »

Medical care!?! If they're not working they're not contributing so why should they be entitled to a healthy life?

Good point. They'd only trade it off for drugs anyway.

Lyaiera

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why not just lock them up in workhouses and control every morsel they eat, every drop (of water only, naturally) they drink, what rags they wear, how often they wash and with what kind of soap, make them sleep in gender-segregated dormitories ---:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yessir, the USA can play a pioneering role here and we'll all line up to follow their example.;);)

--- And wonder why no one ever thought of it before.:):)

I'm way ahead of you Ellis. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79506663

Fight_Night

It is policing the way people(usually from disadvantaged areas) live which OK is wrong, but on the other hand, social welfare isn't huge, surely the money could be better spent?

gaffer91

Eli Manning wrote: »

No, the state should not have to pay for alcohol for people. This country is embarrassing with attitudes like this.

An attitude that we should maintain a basic sense of decency to people less fortunate than us? It's a small comfort, and it's putting money back in the economy, don't see the big problem. Just because someone is on the dole and enjoys a few drinks a week doesn't make him/her an alcoholic "scrounger" who has no intention of working again.

Just because you are paying tax and a jobseeker temporarily isn't doesn't mean you have a right to control his or her life.

Red Crow

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Why not just lock them up in workhouses and control every morsel they eat, every drop (of water only, naturally) they drink, what rags they wear, how often they wash and with what kind of soap, make them sleep in gender-segregated dormitories ---:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yessir, the USA can play a pioneering role here and we'll all line up to follow their example.;);)

--- And wonder why no one ever thought of it before.:):)

Storing them in warehouses may accrue the state with storing charges and such so don't be so ridiculous.

It's not a ridiculous suggestion actually.

Sulla Felix

Doesn't work. People buy stuff like pampers and sell them door to door for little or nothing to buy a bit of booze. Was tried before in Philly in the eighties.

Dartz

Eli Manning wrote: »

When a man is better off living off the state than working in it there is something horribly wrong.

I'll agree with that part.

It says something about the accumulated costs of working, such as car ownership or public transport, doesn't it? Like maybe, the cost of living in this country might be a little too high?


On the other hand, the dole isn't just for week-to-week living. I've also used my dole money to replace a mobile phone that broke on me (Which I use to speak with employers), and have ordered a laptop computer which I will need for an internship I am due to start (My current machine has a faulty screen.).

Some would call these luxuries. But considering that I missed out on a job interview because my phone dropped the call, I wouldn't.

And if I managed to arrange my finances and budget so I can spend a little more on things that might make the dull drudgery of existance that little more bearable, bollox to anyone being a self-righteous git taking it away.

mattjack

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

I'll see your 2 and offer you 2 food vouchers in lieu of 1 rollseyes smiley

Let me see, I don't think you can beat my social welfare buggy and a bus pass.

Red Crow

gaffer91 wrote: »

An attitude that we should maintain a basic sense of decency to people less fortunate than us? It's a small comfort, and it's putting money back in the economy, don't see the big problem. Just because someone is on the dole and enjoys a few drinks a week doesn't make him/her an alcoholic "scrounger" who has no intention of working again.

Just because you are paying tax and a jobseeker temporarily isn't doesn't mean you have a right to control his or her life.

It's not decent to provide someone who is living off the state free drink.

and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.

starviewadams

Will just lead to a massive black market and increased crime rates.America seem to love locking their citizens up so I can see why they'd be interested in introducing this system,but our economy/Gardai/prisons are at breaking point already so this system would be a disaster if brought in here,which it won't be anyways.

Jesus Shaves

mattjack wrote: »

Let me see, I don't think you can beat my social welfare buggy and a bus pass.

I'll take your buggy and get a handout for my youngests communion to be paid for

Jesus Shaves

Eli Manning wrote: »

and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.

I think you'll find that all the money a person on social welfare receives goes back into the economy

Tombi!

Eli Manning wrote: »

It's not decent to provide someone who is living off the state free drink.

and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.

You're being sarcastic, right?

My name is URL

At least they can still buy guns

Sinfonia

Land of the free indeed.

How ridiculous that anybody would support this idea. Those who work and complain about how the recipients of 'their' tax money spend it should consider how very, very little an individual actually contributes. The purpose of social welfare is that we, as a supposedly civilised society, help each other rather than simply allow the unemployed to die. If you work your fingers to the bone 70 hours a week running your own business and can't afford a few drinks, you are either bad with money, or bad at running your business. Or lying.

(As is common in AH threads) if one thinks that being unemployed and on the dole is a better life than yours, go on the dole. If one thinks that prisoners have a better life than you, go to prison. If one thinks foreigners have it better than you, move. If you're not happy with how your country operates, find another one. You have options. Don't just **** all over everyone else if you're unhappy with your station in life. Don't worry about the fiver some unemployed person spends on a few cans of Tyskie.

Some of the people who post here are so right wing it's ****ing scary.

vard

gaffer91 wrote: »

An attitude that we should maintain a basic sense of decency to people less fortunate than us? It's a small comfort, and it's putting money back in the economy, don't see the big problem. Just because someone is on the dole and enjoys a few drinks a week doesn't make him/her an alcoholic "scrounger" who has no intention of working again.

Just because you are paying tax and a jobseeker temporarily isn't doesn't mean you have a right to control his or her life.

Then scrap the dole and there you go - control your own life. That's not a viable alternative though is it?

People on welfare are better off than those working. There's the problem. Justify that without using some silly squiffy eyed smiley face.

You don't get to demand tax funded party time while the majority of people who pay for it can't afford the same thing through working.

If (it's an utter disgrace if it's the case) dole money is high enough that people are able to save up and get sloshed at the end of the week it should be chopped, slashed and redistributed so that those who really need it get the support they need. I work with people who have become homeless; have had to go without food; have lost their jobs - too many other scandelous situations to mention; Pints are the last of their worries.

People are struggling to survive. If there's money left in the pot it should be put to use in subsidising employment and saving the dwindling industrious minority this country needs if it's to find a way towards recovery. Or - since you probably don't care about recovery - let's put it another way: The people you need if you want to keep going out and getting hammered every weekend.

Chuck Stone

vard wrote: »

People on welfare are better off than those working.

Ah yeah, stagnating on the dole, having your confidence sapped away and becoming socially isolated is better than having a weekly wage, being involved with your colleagues, progressing in your career/life, adding value to your CV and skills.

Such astounding ignorance.

Nodin

crapmanjoe wrote: »

USA has passed a federal law requiring all states to come up with system / laws / legislation to prevent the use of welfare in liquor stores, gambling establishments and adult entertainment businesses by 2014.

Do not want to get into a dole bashing argument here ......

....then you're going a very strange way about it.

vard

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ah yeah, stagnating on the dole, having your confidence sapped away and becoming socially isolated is better than having a weekly wage, being involved with your colleagues, progressing in your career/life, adding value to your CV and skills.

Such astounding ignorance.

Right back at you.

Whatever about all the lovely little friends you might make while working, my point - as I'm sure you're aware - was in reference to money.

However, you seem to neglect the significant amounts of playfully regarded "work-shy" people who have never worked and have no intention of ever doing so. Sure why would they need skills? A CV... !? Social isolation - No worries there! Sure, according to this thread, since it's entirely impossible to socialise without alcohol, that's what the dole is for!

Jester252

I think that people on the dole need to donate blood before getting their money.
One it will help blood supply in the country
Two they will get drunk quicker so less money is spend on drink that day

Jesus Shaves

Jester252 wrote: »

I think that people on the dole need to donate blood before getting their money.
One it will help blood supply in the country
Two they will get drunk quicker so less money is spend on drink that day

If there was a competition for idiotic post of the day the winner would definitely be in this thread

gaffer91

Eli Manning wrote: »

It's not decent to provide someone who is living off the state free drink.

and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.

Right so should anything you consider "not decent" be prohibited for jobseekers? Sure GAA matches aren't a necessity, I suppose you think people on the dole shouldn't be allowed to go to them either. It's not free either, it's not like the government is giving them a quota of alcohol for their dole.

Explain the "lol" comment as well, while you're at it.

vard wrote: »

Then scrap the dole and there you go - control your own life. That's not a viable alternative though is it?

When someone proposed scrapping the dole, it is difficult to take them seriously and approach the rest of their post with an open mind. But no, it is not a viable alternative.

vard wrote: »

People on welfare are better off than those working. There's the problem. Justify that without using some silly squiffy eyed smiley face.

No they are not. While I do think the cost of working is too high, people on the dole are not better off. I'm sure you will pull out some highly selective example comparing a rare case with the minimum wage while not factoring in benefits the worker might also be getting but to say that people on the dole are better off is untrue. It has been debunked. Many times.

vard wrote: »

You don't get to demand tax funded party time while the majority of people who pay for it can't afford the same thing through working.

As had been explained, excluding people who have large families/unaffordable debt, people working should indeed have enough money for a few drinks at the weekend, if they are careful with money.

vard wrote: »

If (it's an utter disgrace if it's the case) dole money is high enough that people are able to save up and get sloshed at the end of the week it should be chopped, slashed and redistributed so that those who really need it get the support they need. I work with people who have become homeless; have had to go without food; have lost their jobs - too many other scandelous situations to mention; Pints are the last of their worries.

Getting drunk is not particularly expensive if you don't want it to be so "saving up" shouldn't be a problem. And people on the dole are the people who really need it.

vard wrote: »

People are struggling to survive. If there's money left in the pot it should be put to use in subsidising employment and saving the dwindling industrious minority this country needs if it's to find a way towards recovery. Or - since you probably don't care about recovery - let's put it another way: The people you need if you want to keep going out and getting hammered every weekend.

I'm not on the dole. And yes I do care about recovery. But this is not the way to go about it. I actually am in favour of modest cuts to the dole, not out of some misguided right wing principles, or because I think jobseekers are scroungers, but because I am a realist and I realise that JSA at its current level is not sustainable. But I still don't think this US proposal is a good idea.

Question-how much are you in favour of limiting what a jobseeker should be able to spend money on? Anything you don't consider "essential" or is it just alcohol you have a particular bee in your bonnet about?

Chinasea

isn't welfare supposed to be stopping the wolf from coming to the door?

Nodin

Chinasea wrote: »

isn't welfare supposed to be stopping the wolf from coming to the door?

I thought it painted a sign outside peoples gates saying "Angry Mob - Please assemble here".