Can I opt out of Visa Debt card?

ArrBee

Hi,

1st of all, it's great to see BoI having a presence on sites like this. I hope more businesses follow suit.

I recently received a replacement debit card which is also a visa debt card and set up for contactless transactions.

My question is simple enough, How do I opt out or have the "added features" removed from my new card?

I do not require the ability for visa payments and would rather not have the security of my current debit card compromised if I don't need the feature.

Same goes for contactless transactions.

Kind of goes against the whole reason for a chip and pin, dont you think?

Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi ArrBee,

Thank you for the kind welcome.

Bank of Ireland will no longer be issuing Laser cards; you will not be able to opt out of receiving a Visa Debit card. The Visa Debit card will work the same way as a Laser. The reason we are changing to Visa Debit is that it provides some extra benifits for customers.

All our cards are enabled with the latest security features. If you use the contactless technology as an extra precaution, from time to time, you may be asked to enter your PIN to complete a transaction. You do not need to use the contactless technology, you should have no problem using your chip and pin at point of sale.

Thanks
Linda

ArrBee

Hi Linda, BoI

I am aware of the "extra benefits" which are of no benefit to me personally.
The problem is, I am also very aware of the extra risks.

I would have thought that if a customer was not wanting the benefits, there would be some way to opt out of the added risk.


From a technology perspective, there must be something in your back end systems that enables/disables the ability for a card to be used for contactless or visa transactions.
Are you able to find out if those features can be turned off from a card?


Also as a matter of interest, a couple of questions...

-When a disputed transaction is found how quickly does BoI refund the money?
On a proper credit card the dispute process is pretty straight forward, but on a debt card the customer is out of pocket immediately.

-when using a visa debit card overseas for example. how do I control if it is used as a visa vs as a normal debit card? or is this not possible and visa fees will start applying to transactions.

-does any of the transactional data collected leave BoI, for example going to Visa international?

Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi ArrBee,

As the card is a Visa Debit card all transactions will be Visa however, you can request a card without the contactless technology by contacting your branch here or Banking 365 on 0818 365 365.

ArrBee wrote: »

-When a disputed transaction is found how quickly does BoI refund the money? On a proper credit card the dispute process is pretty straight forward, but on a debt card the customer is out of pocket immediately.

Disputed transactions are based on a case by case basis.

ArrBee wrote: »

-when using a visa debit card overseas for example. how do I control if it is used as a visa vs as a normal debit card? or is this not possible and visa fees will start applying to transactions.

Bank of Ireland offer both credit and debit cards. Our debit card(previously Laser) is a Visa Debit card. This means when you use your Visa Debit card at home or abroad, the money in your current account is generally deducted from your available funds immediately. Our fees and charges have remained unchanged - so the fees and charges you would have paid for Laser remains for Visa Debit.

The fees for using your Visa Debit card abroad would be:
-At an atm machine is 3.5% and it does have a minimum charge of €3.17 with a maximum charge of €11.43 per transaction.
-At a point of sale, ie a retailer, is 1.75% and it has a minimum charge of €0.46 with a maximum charge of €11.43 per transaction.

I hope this answers your questions.
Thanks
Linda

ArrBee

Thanks for answering my questions.
It is good to see I can request a card without the contactless payment feature.


Are you saying that with a current laser card overseas ATM withdrawals have a 3.5% fee (min 3.17 and max 11.43), and PoS has 1.75% (min 0.46 max 11.43)
and that these same fees will continue with visa debit?

(I tried looking for the fee schedule for laser but couldn't find it, sorry.)

Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi ArrBee,

Please see the fees and charges here. It shows what the charges would have been for Laser and Visa Debit. Also the charges would be on the schedule of fees and charges here.

Thanks
Linda

fasttalkerchat

If you don't want a debit card just cut it up. The old lazer cards are finished now anyway.

Greenmachine

Sorry to hijack the thread...

Just a few related questions linda. I am a current BOI whose account has a laser card. Just wondering do I have to wait till my card expires before I will be given a Visa Debit card. Will there be a fee for changing the card early if it is at all possible?

Thanks

Bank of Ireland: Laura

Hi Greenmachine.

We are currently replacing all Laser cards with Visa Debit cards on a phased basis. We expect to have the roll-out complete by the end of September 2012. You will receive your replacement Visa Debit free of charge.

Outside of the roll-out, only Laser cards that are reported lost, stolen or damaged will be replaced with a Visa Debit card. A charge of €5.90 will apply.

Thanks for your query.
Laura

ArrBee

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If you don't want a debit card just cut it up. The old lazer cards are finished now anyway.

That's the problem. I do want a debit card.
I just don't want a visa debit card.

Its a shame that the old laser cards are finished as they provided what I needed.

Nonoperational

What difference does it make? Anyway the vast majority of customers want a visa debit and soon enough all banks will be issuing them as standard so there's nothing you can do about it.

ArrBee

Bank of Ireland: Linda wrote: »

Hi ArrBee,

Please see the fees and charges here. It shows what the charges would have been for Laser and Visa Debit. Also the charges would be on the schedule of fees and charges here.

Thanks
Linda

Hi Linda,

I found those fees alright.
What I didn't find was the standard laser card fees. or is it the same?


also, just wanted to check...
The fees table you linked looks like using the visa debit card carries no additional costs (just normal account transaction fees) if used within the EU.
Is that right?

Cheers,
Rb

ArrBee

gpf101 wrote: »

What difference does it make? Anyway the vast majority of customers want a visa debit and soon enough all banks will be issuing them as standard so there's nothing you can do about it.

You are right. Most customers do want one.
Although I don't understand why, nothing I am wanting should stop someone else from having one.

The difference between them is that right now if someone takes my laser card, there is not a lot they can do with it.
There are a few places that allow internet transactions with an unverified laser card, but not too many.
The flipside to that is there are millions of places which will accept visa online and allow your account to be cleaned out. Yes, there is a dispute process and I'm sure you'll get your money back but after how long?
With a credit card you are not out of pocket for fraudulent transactions. On a debit card you are.

If I won't be using the visa aspect of my debt card then all it does is sit there lessening the security of my money.
how is that a good thing?


The only benefit that I can see is for people who can't get or don't want a credit card. which is fair enough.
But I really don't understand why someone who already has a credit card would want one.

jameshayes

Bank of Ireland: Tara

ArrBee wrote: »

I found those fees alright.
What I didn't find was the standard laser card fees. or is it the same?

also, just wanted to check...
The fees table you linked looks like using the visa debit card carries no additional costs (just normal account transaction fees) if used within the EU.
Is that right?

Hi ArrBee,

Yes, the fees for using a Visa Debit card are the very same as the fees for Laser cards. If you are using either card within the EU or EEA the only fee applicable is the current account transaction fee of 28c.

ArrBee wrote: »

The difference between them is that right now if someone takes my laser card, there is not a lot they can do with it.
There are a few places that allow internet transactions with an unverified laser card, but not too many.
The flipside to that is there are millions of places which will accept visa online and allow your account to be cleaned out.

You also have the added benefit of 'Verified by Visa' when using your Visa Debit card for online purchases, this facility is not available on Laser cards.

Hope this helps but if you do have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks
Tara

ArrBee

Thanks Tara.

I was concerned that using a debit visa at a PoS which takes visa and laser would result in a visa transaction with different fee structure to laser. But it looks like that is not the case.
Great.

Unfortunately the Verified by Visa is not as secure as not having visa on my debit card, although it is better than nothing. The problem is that it has to be supported by the merchant for it to be of any benefit. So I can't see this being a practical fraud prevention until 90% of online merchants use the system.

There are 2 outstanding questions already asked above.
I hope that someone there can find the answers and report back?

1. Can the back end system at the bank remove the visa processing functionality from an individual card while retaining normal debit functionality? (Consider it like blocking all visa transactions if say the card was lost.)

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?


Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi RB,

ArrBee wrote: »

1. Can the back end system at the bank remove the visa processing functionality from an individual card while retaining normal debit functionality? (Consider it like blocking all visa transactions if say the card was lost.)

No, this cannot be done. Visa supports the debit functionality, without it you would just have an ATM-only card.

ArrBee wrote: »

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?

We'll need to look into this for you to see if we can get any further information. As soon as we have anything, we'll post back here.

Thanks for your queries,
Graham

fasttalkerchat

Graham, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't BOI provide an ATM only card?
I was given one up north a few years ago and it still works.

ArrBee

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Graham, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't BOI provide an ATM only card?
I was given one up north a few years ago and it still works.

From memory I think they do.
I'm sure BoI will give a proper answer though.

If only there was a ATM and PoS card which needed a pin number and couldn't be used online...
That would be perfect.

Bank of Ireland: Pat

Hi fasttalkerchat and ArrBee,

Bank of Ireland do provide an ATM only card. It doesn't however have Point of Sale capabilities.

If you decide that you do want to have your Visa Debit card cancelled and replaced with an ATM only card, just ring Banking365 on 0818 365 365 and they will be able to arrange it for you over the phone.

ArrBee wrote: »

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?

We're still looking into this query for you and will post back here when we have some more information.

I hope this helps.

Thanks
Pat

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi RB,

ArrBee wrote: »

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?

For security reasons, as this is business sensitive information, we can't provide any detail about the functionality of our systems.

Thanks again for your posts. If we can help you with anything else, please let us know.
Graham

ArrBee

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

Hi RB,



For security reasons, as this is business sensitive information, we can't provide any detail about the functionality of our systems.

Thanks again for your posts. If we can help you with anything else, please let us know.
Graham

Thanks for trying.

I am a little disappointed as it's actually my personal information rather than business sensitive information we are talking about.

In general the banking privacy policies I've seen here are very loose compared to those in other countries and I'd be concerned if the reason Visa Debt cards are so popular was because Visa are providing them free (banks cut costs) in exchange for all of the transactional data.

Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Greenmachine

Received my new card recently. Delighted to have it. Was sure I would be way down the list. It was due for renewal for ages.

Bank of Ireland: Tara

Hi Greenmachine,

Thanks for your post, delighted to hear you've received your new Visa Debit card.

Cheers
Tara

Rochester

My teenager got her visa debit and is delighted. Well done BOI

antomack

Just want to check on the earlier post from July 13th bu BOI-Pat that an 'ATM ONLY' card is still and will be for the foreseeable future an option for BOI customers.

I'm asking because I was earlier on to 0818-365365 and was told that from now on there is only a VISA Debit Card option available and there was no 'ATM ONLY' option. It was suggested that so long as I just use the debit card for ATM withdrawals and not for VISA debit transactions then I would only ever be charged the €2.50 government duty for ATM and not the combined €5 for ATM and debit card.

Bank of Ireland: Billy

Hi antomack,

Thanks for your question.

To add to Pat's earlier post, all Laser Cards are being replaced with Visa Debit and the rollout is on schedule and should be completed by the end of September. The reason we are changing to Visa Debit is that they offer more functionality than Laser which includes:

Greater worldwide acceptance
Wider online acceptance
Greater convenience when you shop
Verified by Visa – great security online
Greater consumer protection
Contactless payments

While it is possible to have a standard ATM card, please be aware that this card cannot be used outside Ireland and does not have Point of Sale capabilities.

As my colleague in Banking 365 suggested, it is possible to use the Visa Debit Card for ATM withdrawals only and only be charged €2.50 Government Duty.

We have just been notified of an option to have an ATM Card only.
If you would prefer to have the standard card, you will need to call Banking 365 again on 0818 365 355 and a representative will offer assistance.

Thanks

Billy

ArrBee

It's just a shame that your money is less secure with a visa debit card and that when you use it your transaction information is provided to Visa international.

Skerries

Can I ask about the contactless feature as I'm not sure about it
Where currently accepts this feature as in do current POS systems use it or do they have to get a new machine?
The only place I have used it was in McDonalds in Liverpool as I saw someone using it there

Bank of Ireland: Billy

Hi Skerries,

Thank you for your questions.

The Visa website here should should help with any questions you have about Visa Debit.
Thanks

Billy

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi RB,

Visa Debit incorporates additional advanced security features including 3DSecure, making transactions more secure. Customers have additional protection where products are ordered and are not delivered or are faulty. More detail on how secure paying with Visa is can be found on their website at http://www.visa.ie/visa_ireland/security.aspx

Thanks,
Graham

daheff

I've been told that I am being issued (on phased basis) with a visa debit card. I only have standard atm card at the moment and have no desire or need for a visa debit card...why is this being foisted upon me?

Bank of Ireland: Billy wrote: »

While it is possible to have a standard ATM card, please be aware that this card cannot be used outside Ireland and does not have Point of Sale capabilities.

This is as current standard ATM cards operate?

Bank of Ireland: Billy wrote: »

We have just been notified of an option to have an ATM Card only.
If you would prefer to have the standard card, you will need to call Banking 365 again on 0818 365 355 and a representative will offer assistance.

I think BOI should be getting explicit requests from customers to avail of a debit card and not having to ring to just have the 'standard' atm card.

Has the Financial Regulator approved issuing financial products in this way to customers without their explicit consent?

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi daheff,

I have forwarded your feedback on to our Visa Debit team. You are correct; that is the current procedure to keep your atm only card.

We provided advance notification to the Financial Regulator about our transition to Visa Debit cards. Bank of Ireland complied with the Financial Regulator and relevant legislation governing this process.

Thanks
Linda

smurfjed

As I have no desire to have a new credit card, is there anything stopping me from having the credit limit set to ZERO.

smurfjed

ArrBee

Hi Graham,

The less security I refer to is the fact that someone else can spend my money by supplying my card details online.
With a credit card this is not the case so offers some protection from fraud.
Unfortunately "verified by Visa" doesn't prevent the possibility of fraud as it requires the merchant to participate.

I'm sure you will agree that fraudulent access to an account is easier via a Visa Debit card than via a Laser card.
I understand that there is nothing that can be done to prevent all banks effectively outsourcing their electronic payment systems to Visa but it would have shown leadership in the industry and good customer relations to at least give your customers a choice along the lines of preventing Visa transactions on a particular card if requested to.

I'm sure the financial regulator has no issue with what is happening regarding the change over to visa debt cards.
But then again the financial regulator didn't seem to have much of a problem with many questionable practices in the banking sector over the last 9 years.

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi smurfjed,

The new Visa Debit card is not a credit card. It operates like a Laser card; you must have the money in your account to allow transactions through. There is no credit limit.

I hope this answers your question.
Thanks
Linda

smurfjed

Linda, thank you....smurfjed

daheff

daheff wrote: »

Has the Financial Regulator approved issuing financial products in this way to customers without their explicit consent?

Bank of Ireland: Linda wrote: »

We provided advance notification to the Financial Regulator about our transition to Visa Debit cards. Bank of Ireland complied with the Financial Regulator and relevant legislation governing this process.

Hi Linda,

Your answer isn't really answering the question I asked.

My question is not regarding the generic change to Visa Debit cards, its in relation to issuing debit cards to people (even if not activated) who have not requested this product.

Bank of Ireland: Billy

Hi RB,

We are not obliged to receive Financial Regulator approval however we do need to comply with the Financial Regulator and relevant legislation governing this process. Eg, We provided our customers with 2 months notification of our intention to move to Visa Debit by placing a notification in the national press. We also advised customers when they received their cards that they do not have to accept the new terms and conditions.

Thanks

Billy

Bob24

ArrBee wrote: »

Hi Graham,

The less security I refer to is the fact that someone else can spend my money by supplying my card details online.
With a credit card this is not the case so offers some protection from fraud.
Unfortunately "verified by Visa" doesn't prevent the possibility of fraud as it requires the merchant to participate.

I'm sure you will agree that fraudulent access to an account is easier via a Visa Debit card than via a Laser card.
I understand that there is nothing that can be done to prevent all banks effectively outsourcing their electronic payment systems to Visa but it would have shown leadership in the industry and good customer relations to at least give your customers a choice along the lines of preventing Visa transactions on a particular card if requested to.

I'm sure the financial regulator has no issue with what is happening regarding the change over to visa debt cards.
But then again the financial regulator didn't seem to have much of a problem with many questionable practices in the banking sector over the last 9 years.

Yes - we would agree that a visa card has more chances of being fraudulently used internationally that a Laser one.
Having said that, this is simply due to its wider acceptance and not to security flaws. We will probably agree that Visa cards have much more advanced security features that Laser ones (as Laser has much less resources to invest in this). Laser might look "safer" because it is smaller and not an attractive target, but your laser card can still easily be used to purchase stuff online from many UK websites which accept Switch card and possible in other countries with similar systems. It would be interesting to see statistics of fraudulent transactions from banks which have switched from Laser to Visa or Mastercard before BoI.
Also, regardless of this an Ireland-only system like Laser simply doesn't make sense nowadays - it is doomed to disappear. Even if Bank of Ireland (or other banks) was still willing to issue Laser cards for customers who want one; most customers would opt-in for Visa cards because they want to use them online or internationally. So now that most banks offer Visa or Mastercard debit cards, the amount of customers using Laser would anyway become a small minority. The organisation managing Laser would have to increase their transaction fees due to processing a much smaller number of transactions but still having to maintain their infrastructure. For shop owners it would stop making sense to pay these ever increasing fees just for a small amount of customers which can also pay cash or with their credit card. So in the medium term you would probably be in a situation where you have a Laser card but many shops don’t accept it anymore.

By stopping to issue any Laser card, Bank of Ireland is just killing them faster. But anyway if they were willing to issue one to you; you would probably see that by the time that one expires no-one accepts it anymore and you will be asking for a Visa. So Laser is dying either way …

daheff

Bank of Ireland: Billy wrote: »

Hi RB,

We are not obliged to receive Financial Regulator approval however we do need to comply with the Financial Regulator and relevant legislation governing this process. Eg, We provided our customers with 2 months notification of our intention to move to Visa Debit by placing a notification in the national press. We also advised customers when they received their cards that they do not have to accept the new terms and conditions.

Thanks

Billy

Again Billy you arent answering the question that is being asked (and i'm getting pretty fed up at you and your colleagues doing so)

in the case where somebody has not had a debit card(just a standard ATM card) and they are now being issued a debit card (without applying for the product). Have you approval to do issue a debit card without the account holders request?

Bank of Ireland: Laura

Hi daheff.

Apologies if our previous posts have been unclear.

We don't need to receive approval from the Financial Regulator, however we are acting within their requirements and regulations supplied by them and are abiding by our terms and conditions.

We are currently replacing Laser cards with Visa Debits therefore customers don't need to apply for them. You agree to the new terms and conditions when you activate your new card.
The ATM only card is remaining as a product and if you do not want a Visa Debit, please contact your account holding branch where a representative will be happy to make the necessary arrangements for you.

Hope this helps.
Laura

ArrBee

Bank of Ireland: Billy wrote: »

Hi RB,

We are not obliged to receive Financial Regulator approval however we do need to comply with the Financial Regulator and relevant legislation governing this process. Eg, We provided our customers with 2 months notification of our intention to move to Visa Debit by placing a notification in the national press. We also advised customers when they received their cards that they do not have to accept the new terms and conditions.

Thanks

Billy

Hi Billy,

I was only mentioning the financial regulator and their "approval" of the process because it was already mentioned by Linda when she said they had been notified and BoI complied with their regulations.
I understand you may not be obliged to have approval (so long as you are complying) but the point I was trying to make was twofold.

1. that "complying" is often doing the minimum required and that here is a chance for BoI to do more than the minimum, show leadership in the industry and meet a greater percentage of their customer needs than what they are currently attempting to do.
-offer a way to block all Visa transactions or all non-PoS (chip&PIN) transactions on a visa debit card on request.

2. that compliance with the financial regulations while legally sound, doesn't necessarily equal morally sound as we have seen in the past 9 years.
eg. using the claim that BoI is adhering to financial regulations doesn't mean the decisions taken are necessarily good.

Is there any way BoI may consider disabling the Visa part of a debit card if requested to do so?
This would seem to meet the needs of those who want a visa debit card and those who want a regular debit card on the +plus network

Cheers,
RB

ArrBee

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes - we would agree that a visa card has more chances of being fraudulently used internationally that a Laser one.
Having said that, this is simply due to its wider acceptance and not to security flaws. We will probably agree that Visa cards have much more advanced security features that Laser ones (as Laser has much less resources to invest in this). Laser might look "safer" because it is smaller and not an attractive target, but your laser card can still easily be used to purchase stuff online from many UK websites which accept Switch card and possible in other countries with similar systems. It would be interesting to see statistics of fraudulent transactions from banks which have switched from Laser to Visa or Mastercard before BoI.
Also, regardless of this an Ireland-only system like Laser simply doesn't make sense nowadays - it is doomed to disappear. Even if Bank of Ireland (or other banks) was still willing to issue Laser cards for customers who want one; most customers would opt-in for Visa cards because they want to use them online or internationally. So now that most banks offer Visa or Mastercard debit cards, the amount of customers using Laser would anyway become a small minority. The organisation managing Laser would have to increase their transaction fees due to processing a much smaller number of transactions but still having to maintain their infrastructure. For shop owners it would stop making sense to pay these ever increasing fees just for a small amount of customers which can also pay cash or with their credit card. So in the medium term you would probably be in a situation where you have a Laser card but many shops don’t accept it anymore.

By stopping to issue any Laser card, Bank of Ireland is just killing them faster. But anyway if they were willing to issue one to you; you would probably see that by the time that one expires no-one accepts it anymore and you will be asking for a Visa. So Laser is dying either way …

Hi Bob,

can I ask if you represent BoI?
It doesn't show as such.


the points you raise are valid.
I wasn't aware that even domestically, the visa debit cards would not use the laser network.

Does this mean then that Visa International will have a record of all electronic payments?

I am a little surprised that most people would opt-in for visa debit, but I fear you're probably right.
I would have thought that only those that either can't get, or don't want a proper credit card would get any use from a visa debit card which wouldn't be "most".

Is there any reason why I would use a visa debit instead of visa credit?

I'm beginning to think that the killing off of the laser network is not a natural evolution but a well executed plan from Visa to own a bigger piece for the interbank networks and possibly build an almighty transactions data warehouse.

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi RB,

I have forwarded your feedback and suggestions to our Visa Debit card team.

Bank of Ireland's debit card is now a Visa Debit card.

Bank of Ireland: Laura wrote: »

The ATM only card is remaining as a product and if you do not want a Visa Debit, please contact your account holding branch where a representative will be happy to make the necessary arrangements for you.

Thanks
Linda

Pablo Sanchez

ArrBee wrote: »

Hi Bob,

can I ask if you represent BoI?
It doesn't show as such.


the points you raise are valid.
I wasn't aware that even domestically, the visa debit cards would not use the laser network.

Does this mean then that Visa International will have a record of all electronic payments?

I am a little surprised that most people would opt-in for visa debit, but I fear you're probably right.
I would have thought that only those that either can't get, or don't want a proper credit card would get any use from a visa debit card which wouldn't be "most".

Is there any reason why I would use a visa debit instead of visa credit?

I'm beginning to think that the killing off of the laser network is not a natural evolution but a well executed plan from Visa to own a bigger piece for the interbank networks and possibly build an almighty transactions data warehouse.

Il be honest, im not sure you know what a debit card is. It will act exactly the same as your laser, but the scheme is run by VISA instead of Laser.

Put out of your mind that this is similar in anyway to a VISA credit card, except in the fact that it can be accepted anywhere VISA credit cards are, therefore making it a far more attractive (for the majority of people anyway) prospect then Laser.

él statutorio

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Il be honest, im not sure you know what a debit card is. It will act exactly the same as your laser, but the scheme is run by VISA instead of Laser.

Put out of your mind that this is similar in anyway to a VISA credit card, except in the fact that it can be accepted anywhere VISA credit cards are, therefore making it a far more attractive (for the majority of people anyway) prospect then Laser.

I'd be more worried about who owns (and who gets to see) the transaction data. Is it BOI or Visa or both?

MrO

ArrBee wrote: »

I am a little surprised that most people would opt-in for visa debit, but I fear you're probably right.
I would have thought that only those that either can't get, or don't want a proper credit card would get any use from a visa debit card which wouldn't be "most".

Is there any reason why I would use a visa debit instead of visa .

...because I wouldn't need to use a credit card to pay for goods online or at point of sale. Previously we didnt really have an option until laser which was a big leap ... But that was mostly limited to to Irish goods/sites. With visa debit I only need reach for credit card if I really need it.


I thinks it's great that the ATM card will double as a debit card...just makes things easier
I don't see an increased security risk beyond the contactless payments which is limited in spend and the pros outweigh the cons (in theory we should be able to do this with our phones soon anyway)
Privacy is a concern but I'd be kidding myself if though anything other than used note payments in a back alley were not recorded and analysed somewhere...

Bob24

ArrBee wrote: »

Hi Bob,

can I ask if you represent BoI?
It doesn't show as such.


the points you raise are valid.
I wasn't aware that even domestically, the visa debit cards would not use the laser network.

Does this mean then that Visa International will have a record of all electronic payments?

I am a little surprised that most people would opt-in for visa debit, but I fear you're probably right.
I would have thought that only those that either can't get, or don't want a proper credit card would get any use from a visa debit card which wouldn't be "most".

Is there any reason why I would use a visa debit instead of visa credit?

I'm beginning to think that the killing off of the laser network is not a natural evolution but a well executed plan from Visa to own a bigger piece for the interbank networks and possibly build an almighty transactions data warehouse.

Hi,

No I have nothignto do with BoI :-)

I am no specialist here, but yes I would assume Visa will have a view of all your transactions including local ones. One alternative would be to have hybrid Laser/Visa cards (the old Laser Cards were almost there with Maestro support, except Maestro is definitly not as widely accepted as regular Mastercard at POS or online in my experience). I am French (though in Ireland for a while ...) and this is what banks have been doing there for as far as I can remeber (20+ years). All debit cards both support the local Carte Bleue (CB) system and either Visa or Mastercard. So when you use the card in France it is managed by the CB organisation, and abroad it will go through Visa/Mastercard.
I think historically the main reason for CB to survive is that France has had chip and PIN cards for at least 30 years (probably more) and until fairly recently Visa and Mastercard could not handle that. If I look at the situation in Ireland today, I can't really see anything Laser provides that Visa can't provide. So probably it doesn't make sense for the banks to pay in order to keep it alive just for the sake of having a local electronic payment system ... though obviously your point that it means to move transactions data outside of the country is a valid one.

Personally, coming from this French system I was a bit surprise/annoyed when I came to Ireland that banks here were providing debit cards which only have local acceptance.
I have never had a credit card and have no interest in signing a credit agreement with anyone as I only buy what I can afford. Of course not all credit card holders in Ireland are crazy spenders; but then if you look at it: in that case why do they need a credit card except because they want to use it online and abroad; so nothing to do with credit. In that case why not put that function directly on their debit card and save them from entering a credit agreement they don't need and don't necessarily fully understand? I think many people are just conditioned to get a credit card for internationnal/online purchases, but actually they don't need it and it is a way for the bank to lure them into expensive credits (since the option of Visa/Mastercard debit has always been there in France; most people don't have a credit card - even though this is changing as banks are using marketing tricks to enable credit on their bank cards without them fully realising what they are getting into). So personally I see the Visa debit card as a very positive change for bank customers (even though yes, I am also concerned about my privacy and personal data :-)).

ArrBee

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Il be honest, im not sure you know what a debit card is. It will act exactly the same as your laser, but the scheme is run by VISA instead of Laser.

Put out of your mind that this is similar in anyway to a VISA credit card, except in the fact that it can be accepted anywhere VISA credit cards are, therefore making it a far more attractive (for the majority of people anyway) prospect then Laser.

Thanks for your concern, but I do understand the difference and always have.

ArrBee

él statutorio wrote: »

I'd be more worried about who owns (and who gets to see) the transaction data. Is it BOI or Visa or both?

Bingo!
and further to that, if Visa is an international company and have access to Irish transactional records, how will they respond to a request for information from a non-Irish authority?