Bin tag increase?

timbel

Anyone notice the Panda black bin tags going up to €8.75?
Just got charged this in my local Spar - they said the price went up last Monday.
Nothing on the Panda website..

Kev.

http://www.herald.ie/news/families-hit-by-more-bin-charge-hikes-3161361.html

Orobhsa

So much for Fingal guarantee.

8. Will the new service cost me more?
The Council worked hard to ensure that Panda has guaranteed to freeze the
annual charge and tag/lift charge at the current price for all existing Fingal
County Council customers for 2012.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Files/Environment/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions%20Waste%20Collection%20Service.pdf

Same rubbish commitment on Panda

Existing Fingal County Council customers will experience no disruption to service whatsoever during the transition. Collection days, tags and prices will remain unchanged and Panda are freezing prices for existing Fingal customers until at least 2013.

http://www.panda.ie/news/duplicate-of-fingal-wins-dlrd-waste-collection-tender/panda-wins-dlrd-waste-collection-tender.html

timbel

Orobhsa wrote: »

So much for Fingal guarantee.

8. Will the new service cost me more?
The Council worked hard to ensure that Panda has guaranteed to freeze the
annual charge and tag/lift charge at the current price for all existing Fingal
County Council customers for 2012.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Files/Environment/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions%20Waste%20Collection%20Service.pdf

Same rubbish commitment on Panda

Existing Fingal County Council customers will experience no disruption to service whatsoever during the transition. Collection days, tags and prices will remain unchanged and Panda are freezing prices for existing Fingal customers until at least 2013.

http://www.panda.ie/news/duplicate-of-fingal-wins-dlrd-waste-collection-tender/panda-wins-dlrd-waste-collection-tender.html

Yeah, I remember those promises, that's why I was surprised:rolleyes:
I just dropped the coco and panda an email, not that it will make any difference...

spooky donkey

So we can take it that its gone be 10 yoyo come January, since 75c is not an increase and Jan is 2013....

For a service that was free in the last ressision, when our taxes aparently paid for it.

MrJoeSoap

Orobhsa wrote: »

So much for Fingal guarantee.

8. Will the new service cost me more?
The Council worked hard to ensure that Panda has guaranteed to freeze the
annual charge and tag/lift charge at the current price for all existing Fingal
County Council customers for 2012.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Files/Environment/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions%20Waste%20Collection%20Service.pdf

Same rubbish commitment on Panda

Existing Fingal County Council customers will experience no disruption to service whatsoever during the transition. Collection days, tags and prices will remain unchanged and Panda are freezing prices for existing Fingal customers until at least 2013.

http://www.panda.ie/news/duplicate-of-fingal-wins-dlrd-waste-collection-tender/panda-wins-dlrd-waste-collection-tender.html

Well done to all involved. Another f*cking shambolic Irish failure story, right here.

Birdie Num Num

Yeah it's a disgrace. The price isn't even on the tags. I am sure it should be and I am pretty certain it was. Apparently it's because landfill prices have gone up, but that shouldn't be an excuse when they promised no price increase. Surely they would have factored in that there would be increases in fuel, electricity, landfill rates or whatever else before promising no price increase before January 2013. One thing you can be sure of is the likelihood of another increase come January 2013. I am sure it will have a negative effect all round, including for Panda.

markas

oh, do not complain yet - the program to charge refuse collection by its weight is on the way.. (there was some info on their website about pilot programs somewhere in Dublin).. and it does not work out to be cheaper, of course. But thats next year, maybe.

sparky28

People need to understand what actually happened here. When Fingal COCO were providing the service throughout the areas, Panda moved in and offered a cheaper alternative. Numerous people very stupidly switched over to Panda without looking at the big picture. Fingal lost so many customers that it then became uneconomic for them to continue to provide the service. Panda knew that people would be stupid enough to fall for this old trick. They now have control of the contract and can increase prices if and when they choose. People really need to think things through and stop falling for these scams.

MrJoeSoap

sparky28 wrote: »

People need to understand what actually happened here. When Fingal COCO were providing the service throughout the areas, Panda moved in and offered a cheaper alternative. Numerous people very stupidly switched over to Panda without looking at the big picture. Fingal lost so many customers that it then became uneconomic for them to continue to provide the service. Panda knew that people would be stupid enough to fall for this old trick. They now have control of the contract and can increase prices if and when they choose. People really need to think things through and stop falling for these scams.

I might be wrong on this, but I don't think my area was given a choice in the move. I seem to remember being told that this was happening and that there would be no price increases, which subsequently turned out to be untrue.

glossy

Sorry going of topic...

We normally get our bins picked up on Mondays, we still waiting !! plus no calendar
anyone got this problem

Zaph

Somebody mentioned recently that Panda weren't sending out calendars, you're expected to print one from their website instead. Obviously this isn't practical for a lot of people, so if they have a policy of not automatically sending out calendars it's pretty shoddy. I rang them the other day to request one and they said they'd post one out.

glossy

Thanks Zaph, i forgotten my pin number to print it out, will phone them as it will be quicker then waiting for the payment issue.

Might have to scan and copy and print a few for a couple of elder neighbours as i know it will be very impractical for them.

Zaph

I had no idea what my PIN was, but they gave it to me when I rang. I agree, there are many elderly customers who just wouldn't have any way of getting a calendar. Absolutely ridiculous from Panda.

glossy

bin men came,,, wonder did they get my email already lol...

I know Zaph, but i don't mind printing a few out for them,

Morag

Strange we got a calendar.

wildlifeboy

is there a grace period for paying. i may switch to citybin when i get paid.
i have the bins out but havent paid yet

sparky28

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I might be wrong on this, but I don't think my area was given a choice in the move. I seem to remember being told that this was happening and that there would be no price increases, which subsequently turned out to be untrue.

When Panda initially moved in and undercut Fingal a couple of years ago everyone had a choice. Unfortunately a lot of people stupidly thought they would save money by switching from Fingal to Panda. Panda knew this would happen. With so many people switching over to Panda, Fingal were left in a situation where it could no longer provide the service for those remaining customers. Panda now have complete control over the prices and will charge as they like.

timbel

I also got a calendar a while back in the post.

sparky28 wrote: »

When Panda initially moved in and undercut Fingal a couple of years ago everyone had a choice. Unfortunately a lot of people stupidly thought they would save money by switching from Fingal to Panda. Panda knew this would happen. With so many people switching over to Panda, Fingal were left in a situation where it could no longer provide the service for those remaining customers. Panda now have complete control over the prices and will charge as they like.

Sorry, but I dont agree with this at all.
Fingal CoCo sold their service to Panda, and in so doing created a monoply in some estates which are not covered by City Bin (I think?).

I asked Fingal CoCo how the decision was made to sell to Panda (tender?, other?) but got no reply.

Fingal should have sold their service to another operator to preserve the competition.

sparky28

Fingal did indeed sell their service to Panda but only after Panda had initially moved in to offer "cheaper" prices. When Fingal eventually sold, Panda had already taken a large amount of their business anyway as a result of people switching. We live in Littlepace and had a situation over a couple of years where more and more people we moving from Fingal to Panda. Eventually Fingal had no choice but to sell. Panda knew this would happen.

Turbulent Bill

sparky28 wrote: »

People really need to think things through and stop falling for these scams.

It's not a scam, at least not from Panda's perspective. They provided they same service cheaper than Fingal, so of course many people moved to them. If there is a scam, it's Fingal's lack of regulation of private refuse companies, and their weak tender process when they were selling their service.

No connection to Panda BTW, just a customer who was transferred from Fingal.

sparky28

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

It's not a scam, at least not from Panda's perspective.

What I meant by scam was that Panda moved in offering a cheaper service in the full knowledge that people would switch. When enough people switched over, Fingal could no longer make sufficient profit from the service and therefore sold the remaining business to Panda. Now Panda are now in full control of the price setting. Regarding the tendering process, Panda bid more than other competitors according to Fingal.

Shane O' Malley

sparky28 wrote: »

What I meant by scam was that Panda moved in offering a cheaper service in the full knowledge that people would switch. When enough people switched over, Fingal could no longer make sufficient profit from the service and therefore sold the remaining business to Panda. Now Panda are now in full control of the price setting. Regarding the tendering process, Panda bid more than other competitors according to Fingal.

Got to agree. We tend to be too quick to go for the cheapest price ignoring any other motive the seller might have.

Lots of examples of low prices to get us hooked and then it gets increased later. No real excuse in allowing that to happen with Bin collections if there is no decent competition around to keep suppliers honest.

timbel

sparky28 wrote: »

Regarding the tendering process, Panda bid more than other competitors according to Fingal.

So I guess the tendering process should have taken more into consideration then just the amount bid.

We went from having 3 providers (CoCo, Panda and City Bin) to 2 providers.
As CoCo served all areas, there was always an option.
It should've been at least a prerequisite for the licence that both remaining operators provide service to all areas.

Murt10

I tried to change over from Panda to Citybin.

They couldn't accomodate me despite the fact that their big bin lorry actually comes to a stop outside my house, in order to reverse down a cul de sac opposite me. There are two people with red bins down the cul de sac out of a total of about 60 - 70 houses.

Very bad customer service if they unreasonably refuse customers willing and able to pay for their services. By the time they get round to offering it to me, I will no doubt have had to pay my annual charge to Panda, so it won't be worth my while to change.

Turbulent Bill

sparky28 wrote: »

What I meant by scam was that Panda moved in offering a cheaper service in the full knowledge that people would switch. When enough people switched over, Fingal could no longer make sufficient profit from the service and therefore sold the remaining business to Panda. Now Panda are now in full control of the price setting. Regarding the tendering process, Panda bid more than other competitors according to Fingal.

Of course Panda offered cheap introductory prices as a carrot - how else would they get customers? I'm not sure they knew that Fingal would eventually get out of the business, and whether their introductory pricing was sustainable in the long term.

The tender should have taken into account more that just the bid, e.g., levels of service, linking prices to waste disposal costs etc. If Panda provided these undertakings and didn't follow up on them, they should be fined.

Shane O' Malley wrote: »

Got to agree. We tend to be too quick to go for the cheapest price ignoring any other motive the seller might have.

Lots of examples of low prices to get us hooked and then it gets increased later. No real excuse in allowing that to happen with Bin collections if there is no decent competition around to keep suppliers honest.

Paying more now for a utility that may or may not be cheaper from the same supplier in the future is madness IMHO. Waste disposal is just another utility these days, and should be regulated in the same way that electricity, gas etc. are. The big mistake was not regulating before the CoCos left the market.

You can be sure that if Panda increase prices that CityBin (or someone else) will come in and compete. Monopoly players should have the same regulation that ESB, Bord Gais etc. are subject to.

markas

Not that is is sooooo expensive, but to be honest I do not like the idea paying fixed charges for something I do not need. I could fill in a Black Bin in two month on average, green waste and recycleble waste (green bin) more often, but it can be disposed FREE of charge at recycling centers!

The only problem is I do not know what to do with that black 'general waste'. I have noticed more people are disposing it on bus stops, along the roads, in green areas.. is that the only alternative in Ireland???

Shane O' Malley

markas wrote: »

Not that is is sooooo expensive, but to be honest I do not like the idea paying fixed charges for something I do not need. I could fill in a Black Bin in two month on average, green waste and recycleble waste (green bin) more often, but it can be disposed FREE of charge at recycling centers!

The only problem is I do not know what to do with that black 'general waste'. I have noticed more people are disposing it on bus stops, along the roads, in green areas.. is that the only alternative in Ireland???

As far as i am aware the Recycling centres are financed by the money for the Black Bin collections. It may be free to you, but it is not a free service and has to be paid in some way.

All waste operators pay a levy to cover the cost of it so in effect you are paying a fixed fee for something you do use.

daymobrew

markas wrote: »

The only problem is I do not know what to do with that black 'general waste'.

You can bring it to a recycling centre and pay e8 for a car boot load.

markas

Shane O' Malley wrote: »

All waste operators pay a levy to cover the cost of it so in effect you are paying a fixed fee for something you do use.

So even if I limit my waste production to few plastic bags a year, I have to pay ca. 250 for disposing it. That basically means that saving on waste production does not make economical sense. Too bad.

markas

daymobrew wrote: »

You can bring it to a recycling centre and pay e8 for a car boot load.

Are you sure they take all, including usual content of Black bin?

Shane O' Malley

markas wrote: »

So even if I limit my waste production to few plastic bags a year, I have to pay ca. 250 for disposing it. That basically means that saving on waste production does not make economical sense. Too bad.

Do you not pay a set fee plus a fee every time your black bin is collected.

markas

Shane O' Malley wrote: »

Do you not pay a set fee plus a fee every time your black bin is collected.

Miscalculated, sorry - 6 lifts/year cost ca. 160 to Panda, but would be much more awkaward to do to the rec. centre even if cost 110 euro less. That means no option really.
Unless... can share bin with the neigbour (which is probably illegal from Panda point of view)

Shane O' Malley

I doubt it would be illegal.

They would still only be picking up the same number of bins. If they have to do a bit more black bin collections then they would be getting €8 a time.

markas

Shane O' Malley wrote: »

I doubt it would be illegal.

They would still only be picking up the same number of bins. If they have to do a bit more black bin collections then they would be getting €8 a time.

yea, but they loose 110 per household doing it - money free of any collction work. I am pretty sure you cannot do that without breaching some point in the contract

daymobrew

markas wrote: »

yea, but they loose 110 per household doing it - money free of any collction work. I am pretty sure you cannot do that without breaching some point in the contract

It would be a private agreement between you and your neighbour. I wouldn't utter a word to Panda.

markas wrote: »

Are you sure they take all, including usual content of Black bin?

I don't know.

Turbulent Bill

markas wrote: »

Are you sure they take all, including usual content of Black bin?

I'm nearly sure they don't take general black bin waste - it must be either separated recyclable waste (that can generally go into the green or brown bins anyway) or electrical/chemical waste (oil, paint etc.) that needs specialist disposal.

It's a great facility, but not a replacement for a black bin.

Shane O' Malley

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I'm nearly sure they don't take general black bin waste - it must be either separated recyclable waste (that can generally go into the green or brown bins anyway) or electrical/chemical waste (oil, paint etc.) that needs specialist disposal.

It's a great facility, but not a replacement for a black bin.

According to Fingal website they dont accept refuse at the recycling centres. http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Environment/WasteManagementandRecycling/RecyclingFacilities/EstuaryRecyclingCentre/

daymobrew

markas wrote: »

Are you sure they take all, including usual content of Black bin?

No one here knows for sure so I recommend contacting the Coolmine Recycling Centre.
Of course, they may *say* No but if you turned up and paid 8 euro they may say Yes.

Gaspode

I've spent more time than I care to admit up in that recycling place and I've never seen a spot for general 'black bin' non-recyclable rubbish.

daymobrew

Gaspode wrote: »

I've spent more time than I care to admit up in that recycling place and I've never seen a spot for general 'black bin' non-recyclable rubbish.

The bulky waste bins on the right would work.

I had a wooden floor installed in my hall and I threw the excess cuttings in there.

markas

Gaspode wrote: »

I've spent more time than I care to admit up in that recycling place and I've never seen a spot for general 'black bin' non-recyclable rubbish.

oh , it doesn't matter now.. I am reading "Living without waste" ;-)