Joanna Mills exclusion

Run4YourLife

Team named on AAI website. Why already...and why C. Cuddihy?!

thirtyfoot

Shocked at the exclusion of Joanna Mills.

Statistically it makes no sense.
Intuitively it makes no sense.
Developmentally it makes no sense.

No matter how many ways you put this scenario in a funnel, it should come out Joanna Mills. Bitterly, bitterly disappointing for her. Her and Cuddihy would have been the 6th, the non running sub. It had to be Mills as she would have gained so much from this. A bad day. They should have raced next Sunday.

runjb

I don't know about calling it a bad day. While the decision was always going to be tight and result in heart break for one of the two athletes, there is very little between the two of them, Mills and Cuddihy. Cuddihy in her defense has shown remarkable improvements this year and could in no way be classed as an old athlete! I'm not trying to defend any decision by the AAI but I'm just seeing it as a very close call!!

Joanna Mills has qualified for the World Juniors and I'm sure is targeting that event, would that have any bearing on the decision? For example would she not be available for a training stint with the team etc?

Mills didn't travel with the team to Belgium last week, which was strange! Results from that race were:
400 METRES DAMES Finale: A
1 HEFFERNAN MARIAN ‘53″19 SEND 1982 IRL
2 BARR JESSIE ‘53″70 SEND 1989 IRL
3 CAREY MICHELLE ‘53″71 SEND 1981 IRL
4 BERGIN CLAIRE ‘53″91 SEND 1985 IRL
5 CUDDIHY CATRIONA ‘54″62 SEND 1986 IRL

thirtyfoot

runjb wrote: »

I don't know about calling it a bad day. While the decision was always going to be tight and result in heart break for one of the two athletes, there is very little between the two of them, Mills and Cuddihy. Cuddihy in her defense has shown remarkable improvements this year and could in no way be classed as an old athlete! I'm not trying to defend any decision by the AAI but I'm just seeing it as a very close call!!

Joanna Mills has qualified for the World Juniors and I'm sure is targeting that event, would that have any bearing on the decision? For example would she not be available for a training stint with the team etc?

Mills didn't travel with the team to Belgium last week, which was strange! Results from that race were:
400 METRES DAMES Finale: A
1 HEFFERNAN MARIAN ‘53″19 SEND 1982 IRL
2 BARR JESSIE ‘53″70 SEND 1989 IRLJ
3 CAREY MICHELLE ‘53″71 SEND 1981 IRL
4 BERGIN CLAIRE ‘53″91 SEND 1985 IRL
5 CUDDIHY CATRIONA ‘54″62 SEND 1986 IRL

This was not a tight decision. Do the selectors not know the athletes. EYOF medalist in a relay. 4th in European juniors. Commonwealth games. Her PB is faster than Cuddihy by over half a second, a full half second. Her SB is faster. She is 19, she has 2 or 3 Olympic cycles left in her. This is a no brainer. Perform on demand, Mills has done it. This really brings the selection committee into focus. If she can appeal she should. I could see logic in the Chesser and Murphy thing, there is no logic here. If an appeal is heard and Mills is selected, the HP position will be untenable in my opinion.

Pisco Sour

Article about it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/18707394

Agree with thirtyfoot. This exclusion is baffling. I have seen Catriona Cuddihy run down here in Melbourne, and while she has made great progress this year she is simply not at the level of Joanna Mills.

With this, the omission of Chesser and Murphy from the Europeans, and the completely stubborness towards sending in form, proven championship performers on B-standards (Barr, Gregan) to the Olympic Games, you'd be tearing your hair out with how sport in Ireland is run. It is just one complete frustration after another!

Dan man

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Article about it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/18707394

Agree with thirtyfoot. This exclusion is baffling. I have seen Catriona Cuddihy run down here in Melbourne, and while she has made great progress this year she is simply not at the level of Joanna Mills.

With this, the omission of Chesser and Murphy from the Europeans, and the completely stubborness towards sending in form, proven championship performers on B-standards (Barr, Gregan) to the Olympic Games, you'd be tearing your hair out with how sport in Ireland is run. It is just one complete frustration after another!

That email explanation is disturbing if true. How could they say to Joanna Mills that one of the reasons you aren't being selected is because they are looking for athletes with potential to improve? Such a nonsense of an explanation to give to a 19 year girl on the up, and with faster times than another who is older and not as fast on record.
Also a shockingly poor decision to demand she makes the trip to Helsinki, disrupting her World Junior prep in the process, don't select her to run, then tell her that it's all been in vain.
I'm angry on behalf of that poor girl, after being messed around like that, they now expect her to run well in Barcelona....beggars belief.

loghlin

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/olympics-2012/irish-news/athletics-mills-appeals-against-her-exclusion-from-irish-olympic-relay-squad-3159280.html

I cannot for the life of me understand why Caitriona Cuddihy was picked over Joanna Mills.
Joanna Mills has a faster PB.
Joanna Mills has a faster SB.
Joanna Mills has shown more potential (4th in European Juniors)
Joanna Mills is 19 and a potential star for the future.

Caitriona Cuddihy left the sport. She has only returned this year. I am speculating that there was the lure of a (soft) Olympic berth??

I cannot understand the logic of this selection. Was Joanne Cuddihy on the team an influencing factor?

thirtyfoot

loghlin wrote: »

Caitriona Cuddihy left the sport. She has only returned this year. I am speculating that there was the lure of a (soft) Olympic berth??

I cannot understand the logic of this selection. Was Joanne Cuddihy on the team an influencing factor?

I think that is unfair regarding her sister. Also, doesn't matter whether she left or not, you could argue Mills quit long jump because she saw an easy relay berth down the line, Its a stupid argument. What matters is that based on selection criteria, Mills wins on all criteria.

Pherekydes

They could have included both, if they bothered to take heed of this post of mine.

Dan man

Pherekydes wrote: »

They could have included both, if they bothered to take heed of this post of mine.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case....Joanne Cuddihy has to be included in the squad of 6.

IAAF rule:

A total of six athletes may be entered for a relay team. Should an NOC have entered individual athletes and a relay team in the same distance, the entered individual athletes (including the eventual reserve) must be included in the total of six athletes entered for the relay events.

But if they entered Jessie Barr in the 400m hurdles on her B-standard then they could enter both Catriona Cuddihy and Joanna Mills as Jessie doesn't need to be included in the squad of 6 named and yet can still compete in the relay team.

Pisco Sour

Dan man wrote: »

But if they entered Jessie Barr in the 400m hurdles on her B-standard then they could enter both Catriona Cuddihy and Joanna Mills as Jessie doesn't need to be included in the squad of 6 named and yet can still compete in the relay team.

Yep but they wont do that because they are fools with no common sense, foresight or eye for development.

notsofast

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Yep but they wont do that because they are fools with no common sense, foresight or eye for development.

A team of 15 is being sent to the World Juniors in Barcelona. There must be strains on the coffers this year. I don't know but maybe there are tradeoffs between sending athletes to the different competitions.

myflipflops

I can't wait to see how Patsy's 'matrix' will explain this one!

tendon

fair play to them for changing decision and doing right thing in the end.

notsofast

Joanna Mill's appeal upheld, she is now in squad at C Cuddihy's expense.
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=26427

Dan man

notsofast wrote: »

Joanna Mill's appeal upheld, she is now in squad at C Cuddihy's expense.
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=26427

Correct decision....now after their blunder which was in no way on the part of Catriona Cuddihy, instead of breaking her heart they should include both in the relay and drop Jessie Barr. Barr of course should then be sent in the 400m hurdles with her B-standard and this would make her elligible to compete in the relay anyway without being named in the squad of 6 relay runners.

myflipflops

I hope there is an inqu as to how the inexplicable selection decision was made in the first place. I would love a transcript from the appeal committee meeting. I bet it took about 30 seconds to realise they had no choice but to send Mills.

I agree with this:

thirtyfoot wrote: »

If an appeal is heard and Mills is selected, the HP position will be untenable

Ankrom is facing some serious questions after some of decisions made this summer. I would have thought that one of his remits was to remove all ambiguity and subjectivity from the selection process for major champs. It seems to me that he has simply created more confusion.

thirtyfoot

Some credit must be given to the appeals committee who had the balls to do the right thing. It was an easy decision to make but would have a huge fallout. The voice of the 99% has been heard.

myflipflops

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Some credit must be given to the appeals committee who had the balls to do the right thing. It was an easy decision to make but would have a huge fallout. The voice of the 99% has been heard.

They do. The correct athletes will travel.

tHE vAGGABOND

While I agree 100% that this is the right decision, you have to feel sorry for Catriona Cuddihy - sorta caught in the middle of this storm and would have went from all time high to all time low you would think

AAI have been taking professionalism lessons from the FAI it seems :P

YFlyer

Dan man wrote: »

Correct decision....now after their blunder which was in no way on the part of Catriona Cuddihy, instead of breaking her heart they should include both in the relay and drop Jessie Barr. Barr of course should then be sent in the 400m hurdles with her B-standard and this would make her elligible to compete in the relay anyway without being named in the squad of 6 relay runners.

You would think they would.

RayCun

and now Cuddihy has appealed to the OCI, who have asked the AAI to explain the thinking behind their original selection and backtracking
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0710/1224319719363.html

fiddy3

I think a clue might be in her last name. Can't wait to see the explanation for this one.

crazyjav101

very sticky situation for athletics ireland to have gotten themselves into. very cruel what they did to Caitriona but in fairness Joanna is the better athlete. on a human level the disappointment must be crushing for Cuddihy. To have her hopes dashed like that, i can't imagine anything worse.

Burgman

crazyjav101 wrote: »

on a human level the disappointment must be crushing for Cuddihy. To have her hopes dashed like that, i can't imagine anything worse.

Your imagination must be somewhat limited.

Sonia O'Sullivan's father had the right response to one of Sonia's disasters: "No-one died."

crazyjav101

obviously there are worse things out there in life but i was speaking in the context of her athletics career. to have her place to the greatest sporting event on earth taken away from her like that was terrible

runjb

And the saga rolls on...The Olympic Sports Council have not ratified Joanna Mills as of yet, as they are still waiting for information to be sent from AAI.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0711/1224319790316.html

Krusty_Clown

Well, hopefully they reach a decision before Friday!
(though it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't).

Pisco Sour

runjb wrote: »

And the saga rolls on...The Olympic Sports Council have not ratified Joanna Mills as of yet, as they are still waiting for information to be sent from AAI.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0711/1224319790316.html

This is something that could so easily have been avoided by simply picking the top 6 based on season's bests. This is not fair on the other 5 girls either.

Common Sense

So it's now 11.10pm. What's the story? Any decision?

Truman Burbank

Common Sense wrote: »

So it's now 11.10pm. What's the story? Any decision?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/other/2012/0716/1224320244572.html

myflipflops

Eamonn Sweeney smashed the nail on the head in the Independant yesterday.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/mills-only-victim-in-selection-farce-3168548.html

gombeen99

Noone on this forum has mentioned geography but if you read the BBC article, they mention "Northern" (as in NI) 4 times in a short article, and even the photo of Mills is of her racing for NI in the Commonwealth games, thereby subtly emphasising the fact the Mills is from NI, and Cuddihy from ROI. The Irish Indo article barely makes any reference to geography. I don't know anything about AAI politics but is there a perception up north that there is a bias against northern athletes?

YFlyer

gombeen99 wrote: »

Noone on this forum has mentioned geography but if you read the BBC article, they mention "Northern" (as in NI) 4 times in a short article, and even the photo of Mills is of her racing for NI in the Commonwealth games, thereby subtly emphasising the fact the Mills is from NI, and Cuddihy from ROI. The Irish Indo article barely makes any reference to geography. I don't know anything about AAI politics but is there a perception up north that there is a bias against northern athletes?

That's BBC for you. In GAA they only mention about the Ulster counties.

ChickenTikka

gombeen99 wrote: »

I don't know anything about AAI politics but is there a perception up north that there is a bias against northern athletes?

Who would blame anyone who had such a perception. As others have noted, Joanna Mills has the fastest PB and the fastest SB so there was no logical reason for not selecting her.

Even today's article in the Indo (http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/olympics-2012/irish-news/athletics-anxious-wait-for-cuddihy-as-appeal-date-fixed-3171141.html), while I'm sure its unintentional, doesn't mention the logic for selecting Mills and by its omission the article could be interpreted as favouring Caitriona Cuddihy ahead of Mills.

thirtyfoot

gombeen99 wrote: »

Noone on this forum has mentioned geography but if you read the BBC article, they mention "Northern" (as in NI) 4 times in a short article, and even the photo of Mills is of her racing for NI in the Commonwealth games, thereby subtly emphasising the fact the Mills is from NI, and Cuddihy from ROI. The Irish Indo article barely makes any reference to geography. I don't know anything about AAI politics but is there a perception up north that there is a bias against northern athletes?

There was a three man selection panel that picked Cuddihy (ROI) over Mills (NI). One of those was from ROI, one was from NI and one was from USA. Unlikely there was a ROI bias in that.

The appeal committee that consisted entirely of people from the ROI, choose Mills (NI) over Cuddihy (ROI).

Selection committee with 33% ROI rep choose ROI athlete.
Appeal committee with 100% ROI rep choose NI athlete.

This is not a "NI/ROI" issue, its a "people who are out of touch and use poor metrics in their selection procedures" issue. Introducing a NI/ROI factor to this is ignoring the facts and the stats, something that the selection committee with 33% ROI rep are also guilty of.

thirtyfoot

I might add, if Mills is not sent I will be very depressed. It can only be on a technicality at this stage due to poor process. If that is the case then the problem will be with the person who drew up that selection/appeal process. Classic!

robinph

YFlyer wrote: »

gombeen99 wrote: »

Noone on this forum has mentioned geography but if you read the BBC article, they mention "Northern" (as in NI) 4 times in a short article, and even the photo of Mills is of her racing for NI in the Commonwealth games, thereby subtly emphasising the fact the Mills is from NI, and Cuddihy from ROI. The Irish Indo article barely makes any reference to geography. I don't know anything about AAI politics but is there a perception up north that there is a bias against northern athletes?

That's BBC for you. In GAA they only mention about the Ulster counties.

Reporting on the people from the area that pay their licence fee ahead of people from elsewhere, how dare they. There is no conspiracy.

YFlyer

Never said or implied.

gombeen99

robinph wrote: »

There is no conspiracy.

I certainly didn't imply that there was any conspiracy, merely asked (as someone living in ROI and with absolutely no connection whatsoever to AAI) if there was a perception among northern athletes that it's harder for them to get picked? I have no idea if that perception exists or not, hence asking the question.

Truman Burbank

The Tribunal's decision was due to be communicated to the athletes by 6pm today, at the latest. Anyone?

asimonov

I just read on facebook that they have allowed Cuddihy's appeal. Happy for her tbh. Very hard going on Mills but hopefully her time will come.

nerraw1111

What a mess. 4 days till the Games.

Pisco Sour

Absolutely appalling the whole thing.

downthemiddle

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Absolutely appalling the whole thing.

A complete and utter mess from beginning to end. This fiasco will, I'm sure, lead to another resignation and large payout from the AAI.

MrCreosote

This just gets more and more ridiculous.

I'm having mixed feelings about the whole Irish athletics team now. Obviously I want them to do as well as possible, but the downside of that is that if they do, the High Performance crowd at AAI will be patting themselves on their backs and claiming they are the best thing that happened to Irish Athletics etc etc

ThisRegard

Yeah, RTE are reporting that her appeal was successful at the expense of Mills, they're looking for some one to come on around 8 to clarify what's happening.

average_runner

What do you expect from Irish Athletics, they always arse up on something.

Pisco Sour

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18966792
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/kilkenny-city-harriers-runner-caitriona-cuddihy-is-definitely-going-to-the-olympics-after-stunning-appeal-win-1-4086695

Truman Burbank

Pisco Sour wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18966792
http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/kilkenny-city-harriers-runner-caitriona-cuddihy-is-definitely-going-to-the-olympics-after-stunning-appeal-win-1-4086695

"Caitriona’s appeal lasted four and a half hours on Thursday and her solicitor, Michael Lanigan, who spoke for almost two hours, reminded the three court appeal panel that it was a team event and not an individual one." The baton handover. Gets you ever time...................

Here's The OCI statement. Basically, they went for experience. Maria McCambridge must be scratching her head this morning.
http://www.olympicsport.ie/sports/athletics/5818-cuddihy-appeal-successful.html

Pisco Sour

Truman Burbank wrote: »

"Caitriona’s appeal lasted four and a half hours on Thursday and her solicitor, Michael Lanigan, who spoke for almost two hours, reminded the three court appeal panel that it was a team event and not an individual one." The baton handover. Gets you ever time...................

Here's The OCI statement. Basically, they went for experience. Maria McCambridge must be scratching her head this morning.
http://www.olympicsport.ie/sports/athletics/5818-cuddihy-appeal-successful.html

Experience? I would have thought Joanna Mills would have more major championship experience also given her European and World Junior exploits. Whatever criteria you pick Mills wins. It's a terrible decision completely lacking in fairness.