Irish Rail - frustration dealing with fixed penalty

DixNeuf

I'm struggling with a fixed penalty myself at the moment.

I have an annual ticket and arrived in Connolly a few months ago but couldn't find my ticket. I explained to the man in the box there and he just asked my details and wrote out a script. I duly sent in a copy of my id and the script as requested. He never asked me to buy an additional ticket. Given that the station where I got on there is no ticket office, there is no conductor on the train and that on arrival I wasn't asked to buy an additional ticket I feel quite angry really to be treated as a criminal.

They remain adamant that I pay both for the ticket I apparently dodged, but had no opportunity to purchase, and a fine.

IR website states that the purpose of the fixed penalty is to prevent loss of revenue and ensure a better service for customers. Well, I think in this case it has failed miserably. There is no loss of revenue here, and the service has far from been enhanced by this episode.

Quite frankly, the aggressive nature of this pursuit and the reluctance to apply a bit of human understanding has, rather than protected revenue, led me to a position where I am very doubtful as to whether I will renew my annual ticket when the time comes. Which is a shame, as the vast majority of IR/IE staff I've dealt with over my near decade using their service have been friendly and courteous, and usually pretty efficient despite the reputation they have.

Angry and frustrated at the minute.

Losty Dublin

DixNeuf wrote: »

I'm struggling with a fixed penalty myself at the moment.

I have an annual ticket and arrived in Connolly a few months ago but couldn't find my ticket. I explained to the man in the box there and he just asked my details and wrote out a script. I duly sent in a copy of my id and the script as requested. He never asked me to buy an additional ticket. Given that the station where I got on there is no ticket office, there is no conductor on the train and that on arrival I wasn't asked to buy an additional ticket I feel quite angry really to be treated as a criminal.
.

If you have an annual ticket and receive a fixed penalty ticket then you should contact the RPU and bring this to their attention. Once they can establish that you have a valid annual ticket then they may be more flexible with you.

DixNeuf

Hi Losty,

Thanks for that. Sadly, they are well aware that I have an annual ticket. At least everyone I've dealt with so far at RPU is aware. Although the letter I received yesterday looks like it is an automated response and makes no reference to the fact that I am an annual ticket holder.

I really wish they had a different process in place for holders of valid tickets in this situation. RPU sees no difference between someone who pays almost 2k a year for an annual ticket and travels without it on rare occasion through genuine error and someone who deliberately avoids paying fares all together.

It's a daft policy and will only serve to alienate existing paying customers. I really love travelling by rail and have enjoyed it over many years, but I feel so unvalued as a customer. The money I've spent on annual tickets would have put a lovely motor under my bum, and paid for running it, but I feel so harassed at this stage.

schemingbohemia

Send your response to Dick Fearn, CEO Irish Rail, repeating that no loss of income occurred.

However, playing Devil's advocate, and not suggesting it is the case with you, but it would be quite easy for someone to give their annual ticket to someone else to use though IE should be able to find out if the ticket was used elsewhere that day.

Losty Dublin

DixNeuf wrote: »

Hi Losty,

Thanks for that. Sadly, they are well aware that I have an annual ticket. At least everyone I've dealt with so far at RPU is aware. Although the letter I received yesterday looks like it is an automated response and makes no reference to the fact that I am an annual ticket holder.

Aware as in you said it to them or aware as in you sent into them a photo/copy of your valid pass?

Bear in mind that you need to prove to them that you have an annual pass and not the other way around so if that's it's what it takes to sort this out, then that's what you need to do. There has been mention here a few times of people who were in the same boat as you and that was their course of action; on the surface I can't see why this shouldn't apply to you either unless there are other factors at play.

GreenLady

DixNeuf wrote: »

I'm struggling with a fixed penalty myself at the moment.

.

I think there is a real problem in Connolly - other stations seem to have more understanding staff and my husband was simply waved through in Pearse in a similar situation. In Connolly one at least one member of staff certainly made me feel like a criminal in a similar situation.I would suggest that your next move should be to go into the office at Connolly with all the paperwork - and ask them to explain, to your face, why they are charging you for something you have already paid for. Print off the screen shot of their website. If they are obdurate explain politely that you feel that a court would be more understanding.

But it would be foolish not to renew the annual ticket since it saves so much money because it comes from pre-tax income.

Hilly Bill

Its simple and no need for the dramatics. If you dont have your ticket with you at the time of travel then you are liable for the full fare regardless of what type of ticket you forgot. If you can prove that you wasnt able to purchase a ticket because of no ticket machines or booking office at your starting station then you may or should have a better chance of winning your case.
I would imagine that the chaps on the barriers have heard all the excuses everyday and by a passenger arguing that they have a yearly ticket but forgot it they wouldnt be able to confirm it at that moment and especially if its busy.
Its not the fault of Irish Rail if passengers forget their tickets but the passengers themselves.

GreenLady

True but it is possible to talk to passengers who have forgotten tickets in a sympathetic way instead of an accusatory one in a loud voice intended to be heard by the whole queue which is what happened to me. And in my case this was done despite a call to my nearest large station confirming that the station was unmanned and the ticket machine out of order. I was reduced to tears and threatened with arrest on the spot after I walked up to the desk before the barrier and tried to pay the fare I hadn't been able to pay before boarding the train.

As I said, at most stations staff appear to be able to handle this sympathetically - my husband manages to leave his wallet in the wrong jacket a couple of times a year out of the 230 or so days he travels and there has never been a problem on arrival at either Tara or Pearse in thirty years. Recently saw a season ticket holder arrive home at our unmanned station without her ticket to be greeted by the full inspection team of three which was one more than the number of passengers on the train that evening. They told her to be more careful next time.

it is never necessary to make a customer feel humiliated and it is, as the original post made clear, bad for business

GreenLady

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Send your response to Dick Fearn, CEO Irish Rail, repeating that no loss of income occurred.

However, playing Devil's advocate, and not suggesting it is the case with you, but it would be quite easy for someone to give their annual ticket to someone else to use though IE should be able to find out if the ticket was used elsewhere that day.

No it wouldn't - annual ticket has a photo on it

goingnowhere

Not all annual tickets have embedded photographs (depends on the issuing company) and the quality is not exactly brilliant especially after a few months use.

And for the daily peak hour commuter, odds of a ticket check are what 5-10% and even then, if your ticket works the gates you won't be going head to head with the inspector, they are waiting for your ticket to fail or to catch someone tail coating

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its simple and no need for the dramatics. If you dont have your ticket with you at the time of travel then you are liable for the full fare regardless of what type of ticket you forgot. If you can prove that you wasnt able to purchase a ticket because of no ticket machines or booking office at your starting station then you may or should have a better chance of winning your case.
I would imagine that the chaps on the barriers have heard all the excuses everyday and by a passenger arguing that they have a yearly ticket but forgot it they wouldnt be able to confirm it at that moment and especially if its busy.
Its not the fault of Irish Rail if passengers forget their tickets but the passengers themselves.

That's a great way to hang onto a valuable customer who has spent thousands on your company, How can any company with this attitude towards loyal customers survive?

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

That's a great way to hang onto a valuable customer who has spent thousands on your company, How can any company with this attitude towards loyal customers survive?

State monopolies don't need to do customer service.

DixNeuf

Wow. A lot of responses. Thank you all so much.
I'll go through and reply where I can.

DixNeuf

Schemingbohemia: Playing devil's advocate is a good way to test the legitimacy of the issue. There is no way my ticket could have shown up as being used that day if it was not used by me. I may have had the ticket in my laptop bag, helpfully put there so Daddy wouldn't forget it (and as such, in fact travelled with a valid ticket) or else it was on the shelf in my bathroom where I always put it when I get in from work.

Losty Dublin: When I got to the booth in Connolly, I explained the situation to the gentleman in there and he immediately asked for my details and told me to wait until after the Easter holidays and then send in a copy of my ticket and a copy of the slip he gave me which I duly did. Purchasing a ticket at that point was not discussed.

Green Lady: I have been in this position on 3 other occasion in the past 7 or so years. I learned that going to the booth rather than the turnstyle meant dealing with a generally understanding person, who in each occasion behaved as outlined to Losty above. The last time this happened I was told by email that should it occur again I would face the full fine. It is still an outrageous way to treat a paying customer.

Hilly Bill: I'm not much one for dramatics. Thanks for your opinion on this. I'm trying to see it from all sides. Liable for the full fare is not something I agree with, since I've already paid. However, given a choice between paying the fare there and then or being fined without appeal or consideration of circumstance, I'd pay the €13. As you allude to, there are no barriers, ticket office or ticket machines where I get on, no conductor on the train either. When I got Connolly, I went straight to the desk and explained the situation. The guard simply took my details and said to send in a copy of my id. That's it. I appreciate that he couldn't have known that I have a history of 'trying to get away with' this before in that it has happened 4 times (including this time) over about 3000 journeys. I don't blame anyone for my not having my ticket that day but myself, but still object to being criminalised like this.

goingnowhere: my ticket is a smart card with a (slightly blurry, rather unattractive, but silk purse, sows ear) photo of me on it. All movements in Connolly station are recorded on the database when I pass through the electronic barrier.

Foggylad/n97mini: I agree this is poor in terms of customer service. I'm sure that most of the time the Revenue Protection Unit are tested to the limit by the chancers out there ( I see guys fare dodging regularly) but I'm so frustrated and quite angry at this point. Pursuing me for €50 will most likely result in losing €2k when renewal time comes up in January. I'm a paying customer who does my absolute level best to play by their rules and feel utterly alienated by being threatened with €1,000 fine and up to 3 months jail time for this!

As I said before, many thanks all. I really appreciate people taking the time to consider my difficulty with this treatment.

lil5

Doesn't help you much, but in Germany, if you're controlled by revenue protection, you don't have to pay a fine immediately, but they'll issue with a 'penalty fare'-ticket if you have no valid ticket for your trip.

If you can subsequently prove that you were in possession of a (non-transferable) valid ticket you'll only have to pay a handling charge of about 5-7 Euro (instead of the full 'penalty fare') with most operators.

Revenue protection + customer retention

DixNeuf

Hi Lil5,

Thanks for that. Yep, I would have absolutely no problem with that sort of set up. It makes a lot of sense. Why apply exactly the same process to paying customers who make the occasional error as to those wilfully trying to commit ticket fraud?

lil5

Sense + CIE = unknown territory

schemingbohemia

GreenLady wrote: »

No it wouldn't - annual ticket has a photo on it

Yes and how many times has your ticket been visually checked by an Inspector in the last year? Mine never has.

n97 mini

I got on the train at a station last night that has no ticket machine (at present - it usually has). When I got off in Connolly I went straight to the chap at the barrier and told him I wanted to buy a ticket. This is not the first time this has happened, and I always buy a ticket from there. Last night he just said "top right" and waved me on towards the main door, along with 2 or 3 other people who also wanted to buy tickets.

When I got to the main door, beside which is the ticket area, there was one hatch open and a queue of 15 people at it.

So I had a choice between walking out the door and being on time for my appointment (by about 5 mins), or queueing for maybe 15 minutes to pay for a journey I had already made. How many customers are going to opt to queue to pay money or not queue to not pay money, and just walk out the door?

IE's attitude towards revenue protection is extremely inconsistent.

JayRoc

This is actually something I'd be curious about myself....
I've been delayed several times while disembarking at city centre stations- when staff at the booths have refused my offer of the correct fare and instead insisted I cross the station and queue to purchase a ticket at the ticket office.

The reason I'd no ticket on these occasions was that the ticket office at my outgoing station was closed and no ticket machines were available (behind locked shutters).

The last time I got frustrated (without being rude) and said that the chap at the barriers could take my money or not- but I was leaving without being delayed any further. Incredibly, a plain-clothes garda was around and got involved.

foggy_lad

JayRoc wrote: »

This is actually something I'd be curious about myself....
I've been delayed several times while disembarking at city centre stations- when staff at the booths have refused my offer of the correct fare and instead insisted I cross the station and queue to purchase a ticket at the ticket office.

The reason I'd no ticket on these occasions was that the ticket office at my outgoing station was closed and no ticket machines were available (behind locked shutters).

The last time I got frustrated (without being rude) and said that the chap at the barriers could take my money or not- but I was leaving without being delayed any further. Incredibly, a plain-clothes garda was around and got involved.

Did you check the garda's warrant card? What was their take on the situation?

Paparazzo

They have some of the most idiotic policies in place in Irish Rail that really beggar belief, I hope you have luck dealing with them.
My ticket got stuck in a machine and the irish rail guy couldn't find it. My options were to buy a new ticket (i got it mine on the internet for cheap, but if I got a new one I would have had to pay normal price they were offering in station) or get on the train and hope someone dislodged my ticket when their one went through the machine and they handed it to the ticket inspector.

I asked what happens if he doesn't have it, will the rest of the printout be enough for the return from belfast? The guy turned around and walked off! Mid conversation! It was like something from the simpsons. Half expected him to walk behind something and pretend he was walking down stairs into a basement.

JayRoc

foggy_lad wrote: »

Did you check the garda's warrant card??

Of course!

foggy_lad wrote: »

What was their take on the situation?

Nothing earth-shaking. Just sighed and told me to just go to the booth and buy a ticket. I know better than to waste my breath reasoning with a copper who just wants a quiet life (If it came to it I'd walk past a ticket inspector without being concerned he'd rugby tackle me, but arguing the toss with police is a waste of time).

I got the impression he was stationed there (Pearse ) for the day.

It's the second time I've seen plain-clothes gardaí get involved in arguments with RPA/ticket inspectors at that station.

foggy_lad

JayRoc wrote: »

Of course!


Nothing earth-shaking. Just sighed and told me to just go to the booth and buy a ticket. I know better than to waste my breath reasoning with a copper who just wants a quiet life (If it came to it I'd walk past a ticket inspector without being concerned he'd rugby tackle me, but arguing the toss with police is a waste of time).

I got the impression he was stationed there (Pearse ) for the day.

It's the second time I've seen plain-clothes gardaí get involved in arguments with RPA/ticket inspectors at that station.

I would have thought they have no business getting inolved unless called by Irish Rail or a passenger?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

That's a great way to hang onto a valuable customer who has spent thousands on your company, How can any company with this attitude towards loyal customers survive?

What attitude Foggy? As usual you havent a clue what you are moaning about.

Hilly Bill

DixNeuf wrote: »

Schemingbohemia: Playing devil's advocate is a good way to test the legitimacy of the issue. There is no way my ticket could have shown up as being used that day if it was not used by me. I may have had the ticket in my laptop bag, helpfully put there so Daddy wouldn't forget it (and as such, in fact travelled with a valid ticket) or else it was on the shelf in my bathroom where I always put it when I get in from work.

Losty Dublin: When I got to the booth in Connolly, I explained the situation to the gentleman in there and he immediately asked for my details and told me to wait until after the Easter holidays and then send in a copy of my ticket and a copy of the slip he gave me which I duly did. Purchasing a ticket at that point was not discussed.

Green Lady: I have been in this position on 3 other occasion in the past 7 or so years. I learned that going to the booth rather than the turnstyle meant dealing with a generally understanding person, who in each occasion behaved as outlined to Losty above. The last time this happened I was told by email that should it occur again I would face the full fine. It is still an outrageous way to treat a paying customer.

Hilly Bill: I'm not much one for dramatics. Thanks for your opinion on this. I'm trying to see it from all sides. Liable for the full fare is not something I agree with, since I've already paid. However, given a choice between paying the fare there and then or being fined without appeal or consideration of circumstance, I'd pay the €13. As you allude to, there are no barriers, ticket office or ticket machines where I get on, no conductor on the train either. When I got Connolly, I went straight to the desk and explained the situation. The guard simply took my details and said to send in a copy of my id. That's it. I appreciate that he couldn't have known that I have a history of 'trying to get away with' this before in that it has happened 4 times (including this time) over about 3000 journeys. I don't blame anyone for my not having my ticket that day but myself, but still object to being criminalised like this.

goingnowhere: my ticket is a smart card with a (slightly blurry, rather unattractive, but silk purse, sows ear) photo of me on it. All movements in Connolly station are recorded on the database when I pass through the electronic barrier.

Foggylad/n97mini: I agree this is poor in terms of customer service. I'm sure that most of the time the Revenue Protection Unit are tested to the limit by the chancers out there ( I see guys fare dodging regularly) but I'm so frustrated and quite angry at this point. Pursuing me for €50 will most likely result in losing €2k when renewal time comes up in January. I'm a paying customer who does my absolute level best to play by their rules and feel utterly alienated by being threatened with €1,000 fine and up to 3 months jail time for this!

As I said before, many thanks all. I really appreciate people taking the time to consider my difficulty with this treatment.

Its simple. if you had used your ticket to go through the barrier then you wouldnt have this issue. Failing to have a valid ticket at the time of travel means you were issued with a fine and its then up to you to appeal it. Its no use saying to the chap on the barrier that you have a ticket but left it at home . Like you said, it was your fault and nobody else so why be angry at Irish Rail . Its like paying for a parking ticket and keeping it in your pocket and then complaining that you have been unfairly clamped when you come back.
What i dont understand is that you knew that you didnt have your ticket before boarding the train so why didnt you go back and get it?

Hilly Bill

lil5 wrote: »

Doesn't help you much, but in Germany, if you're controlled by revenue protection, you don't have to pay a fine immediately, but they'll issue with a 'penalty fare'-ticket if you have no valid ticket for your trip.

If you can subsequently prove that you were in possession of a (non-transferable) valid ticket you'll only have to pay a handling charge of about 5-7 Euro (instead of the full 'penalty fare') with most operators.

Revenue protection + customer retention

Isnt that the same as whats happening here, people being fined for not being in possession of a valid ticket for the trip?

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

I got on the train at a station last night that has no ticket machine (at present - it usually has). When I got off in Connolly I went straight to the chap at the barrier and told him I wanted to buy a ticket. This is not the first time this has happened, and I always buy a ticket from there. Last night he just said "top right" and waved me on towards the main door, along with 2 or 3 other people who also wanted to buy tickets.

When I got to the main door, beside which is the ticket area, there was one hatch open and a queue of 15 people at it.

So I had a choice between walking out the door and being on time for my appointment (by about 5 mins), or queueing for maybe 15 minutes to pay for a journey I had already made. How many customers are going to opt to queue to pay money or not queue to not pay money, and just walk out the door?

IE's attitude towards revenue protection is extremely inconsistent.

Would you have prefered to have been issued with a fine there and then? You cant say that its Irish Rail's attitude from one chap who decided to let you decide for yourself how honest you are. Im sure that if you were issued with a fine at the barrier then you would have posted a bigger rant on here They cant win can they.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Did you check the garda's warrant card? What was their take on the situation?

Are you for real ?

Hilly Bill

JayRoc wrote: »

This is actually something I'd be curious about myself....
I've been delayed several times while disembarking at city centre stations- when staff at the booths have refused my offer of the correct fare and instead insisted I cross the station and queue to purchase a ticket at the ticket office.

The reason I'd no ticket on these occasions was that the ticket office at my outgoing station was closed and no ticket machines were available (behind locked shutters).

The last time I got frustrated (without being rude) and said that the chap at the barriers could take my money or not- but I was leaving without being delayed any further. Incredibly, a plain-clothes garda was around and got involved.

If you knew the story from previous times then why didnt you just head for the ticket office first ? You were only delaying yourself by giving the poor chap at the barrier attitude.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What attitude Foggy? As usual you havent a clue what you are moaning about.

The awful attitude of Irish Rail and many of their staff towards people who spend massive amounts of money with their company

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you for real ?

Would you trust some strange man in a railway station was a garda just because he said so? I have seen RPU staff flash their work ID as if they were on-screen detectives in some drama, not fast enough to identify them leaving people wondering are they a Garda or just some tool pretending to be one.

You can multi-quote people and reply to several posts in one reply, the button to use is highlight below.



It may not be possible on some mobiles though or on the touch version of boards?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

The awful attitude of Irish Rail and many of their staff towards people who spend massive amounts of money with their company

You mean by issuing a fine for not being possession of a valid ticket for that journey? You just have an issue with Irish Rail full stop Foggy judging by all the posts you thank just because they are negative towards Irish Rail . Did they steal your crisps when you were a child or something

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Would you trust some strange man in a railway station was a garda just because he said so? I have seen RPU staff flash their work ID as if they were on-screen detectives in some drama, not fast enough to identify them leaving people wondering are they a Garda or just some tool pretending to be one.

Do you get paid by someone to hang around train stations Foggy? or do you just hang around looking for something juicy to post on here?

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You mean by issuing a fine for not being possession of a valid ticket for that journey?

By continuing to threaten someone who has already paid for a full year of travel with prosecution through the courts for evading a fare that has already been paid for!

You just have an issue with Irish Rail full stop Foggy judging by all the posts you thank just because they are negative towards Irish Rail . Did they steal your crisps when you were a child or something

I have issue with any company that takes taxpayers money and then treats the same taxpayers like something they stepped in! The op had a yearly ticket and made IR aware of this! Are Irish Rail so broke they have to pursue every avenue to make a few bob and keep the bailiffs from the door??

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Do you get paid by someone to hang around train stations Foggy? or do you just hang around looking for something juicy to post on here?

You mean like the many Irish Rail Gardeners staff who get paid to hang around stations?

lil5

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Isnt that the same as whats happening here, people being fined for not being in possession of a valid ticket for the trip?

The similarity is the issuing of a fine, but the subsequent handling (specifically for holders of valid non-transferable tickets) is very different indeed.

I had a look at the 'No Ticket, No Travel, No Excuse'-pdf-file (Fares & Tickets'-page on the Irishrail-website - http://www.irishrail.ie/faresandtickets ), but I can't see anywhere that the penalty will be waived or replaced by a nominal handling charge if a valid annual or monthly ticket is presented subsequently.

It mentions a 'right to appeal'(in writing), but doesn't specify any details.

You should be able to just call to a ticket counter or specified customer service office, produce your ticket and pay the reduced fine/charge.


It's different on Dublin Bus as you can't board without validating or paying cash. If you forget your pre-paid ticket you realise it when you board and it's a case of paying cash.


But it seems to be a regular enough occurance that Irishrail-customers can access stations and/or board trains without validation being required. The customer mightn't realise until they get off the train that they have forgotten their ticket.

If and when they realise (ticket check at barrier) they'll be told different things (pay at barrier, pay at counter, pay fine) depending on
- the employee/s present
- the number of customers arriving at the same time
- the time of the day
- the weather on the day
- any other reason

foggy_lad

lil5 wrote: »

But it seems to be a regular enough occurance that Irishrail-customers can access stations and/or board trains without validation being required. The customer mightn't realise until they get off the train that they have forgotten their ticket.

If and when they realise (ticket check at barrier) they'll be told different things (pay at barrier, pay at counter, pay fine) depending on
- the employee/s present
- the number of customers arriving at the same time
- the time of the day
- the weather on the day
- any other reason

This is a very serious issue for a company who insists that every passenger even free travel pass holders using the dart MUST have a ticket before entering any train yet they have stations with no gates or other barrriers as well as stations with no staff or even ticket office or ticket machine and even some stations with no ticket validators!

yet they regularly try to fine people who board at such stations for the crime of boarding without a valid ticket when they offer no possible way for tickets to be bought or validated!

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

By continuing to threaten someone who has already paid for a full year of travel with prosecution through the courts for evading a fare that has already been paid for!

I have issue with any company that takes taxpayers money and then treats the same taxpayers like something they stepped in! The op had a yearly ticket and made IR aware of this! Are Irish Rail so broke they have to pursue every avenue to make a few bob and keep the bailiffs from the door??

You mean like the many Irish Rail Gardeners staff who get paid to hang around stations?

Have you missed the point that the chap didnt have the ticket on him at the time? Whats with the continuing bit? stick to the facts Foggy instead of trying to stir the pot.
Irish Rail staff get paid to hang around stations Foggy so whats your point?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

This is a very serious issue for a company who insists that every passenger even free travel pass holders using the dart MUST have a ticket before entering any train yet they have stations with no gates or other barrriers as well as stations with no staff or even ticket office or ticket machine and even some stations with no ticket validators!

yet they regularly try to fine people who board at such stations for the crime of boarding without a valid ticket when they offer no possible way for tickets to be bought or validated!

Name me a few of those stations.

The rules regarding this issue has been posted several times on the board Foggy yet you still try to stir the pot .

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Would you have prefered to have been issued with a fine there and then?

Would Irish Rail pefer if I used another mode of transport?

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You cant say that its Irish Rail's attitude from one chap who decided to let you decide for yourself how honest you are.

He wasn't testing my honesty, he was displaying his laziness. I've bought tickets from the same chap before. He had the book in front of him. He decided not to work.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Im sure that if you were issued with a fine at the barrier then you would have posted a bigger rant on here They cant win can they.

A fine for what? Under the bye-laws it's permissible to travel when it is not possible to buy a ticket.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have seen RPU staff flash their work ID as if they were on-screen detectives in some drama, not fast enough to identify them leaving people wondering are they a Garda or just some tool pretending to be one.

Indeed Foggy,in exactly the same manner as many of my DSP Free Travel Pass holding customers.....;)

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

Would Irish Rail pefer if I used another mode of transport?

He wasn't testing my honesty, he was displaying his laziness. I've bought tickets from the same chap before. He had the book in front of him. He decided not to work.

A fine for what? Under the bye-laws it's permissible to travel when it is not possible to buy a ticket.

"Would Irish Rail pefer if I used another mode of transport?"
Best ask them that.

" he was displaying his laziness."
Or just making it easier for you instead of delaying you at the barrier.

If he delayed you at the barrier you would have complained about his attitude ( going by some of your previous posts in C&T) but when he lets you through you call him lazy. Its a no win situation for them isnt it.

keith16

Ah the old Irish rail no ticket thread!

I think it's pretty pathetic that the first things that passengers see in a lot of train stations these days is a big poster saying "SEE YOU IN COURT".

Says a lot about the default position of Irish Rail - guilty until proven innocent.

Until Irish rail come up with a fool proof system where genuine mistakes are difficult to make and aren't treated with contempt then we will continue to see stories like this.

Hilly Bill

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed Foggy,in exactly the same manner as many of my DSP Free Travel Pass holding customers.....;)

Ye, i see that on the buses often, the driver doesnt have a chance to see it .

Hilly Bill

keith16 wrote: »

Ah the old Irish rail no ticket thread!

I think it's pretty pathetic that the first things that passengers see in a lot of train stations these days is a big poster saying "SEE YOU IN COURT".

Says a lot about the default position of Irish Rail - guilty until proven innocent.

Until Irish rail come up with a fool proof system where genuine mistakes are difficult to make and aren't treated with contempt then we will continue to see stories like this.

Its already fool proof , its called buying a ticket and not chance your arm at the barrier and then whinge on here when you get fined.

Im suprised Foggy hasnt thanked your post yet

he just did

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

" he was displaying his laziness."
Or just making it easier for you instead of delaying you at the barrier.

He was making it easier for him! He could have done it there and then, but he chose to send me to a queue of 15 people.

Honestly, there's spinning the facts, and then there's just plain making up stuff!

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its already fool proof , its called buying a ticket

And in some cases it's perfectly legal to travel without one!

4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

He was making it easier for him! He could have done it there and then, but he chose to send me to a queue of 15 people.

Honestly, there's spinning the facts, and then there's just plain making up stuff!

So your complaint is that you had to queue but chose not to and walked straight out without paying is that it?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed Foggy,in exactly the same manner as many of my DSP Free Travel Pass holding customers.....;)

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Ye, i see that on the buses often, the driver doesnt have a chance to see it .

Then the driver should call the person back and demand to see the pass, otherwise the driver is not doing their job properly, don't bother going on about how the person will complain etc as if you do your job properlythe complaint is only a moan and not relevant at all, unless the driver is somehow treating those with free travel differently to other passengers with passes that have to be viewed by the driver.

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

And in some cases it's perfectly legal to travel without one!

Thats what i was referring to in post 39.

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

So your complaint is that you had to queue but chose not to and walked straight out without paying is that it?

You know that my complaint is about the couldn't give a toss attitude. No-one said anyone walked out, as easy and all as he made it.