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Lab growled and nipped for 1st time

  • 03-07-2012 9:29pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13


    Hi, this is my 1st post on this forum and really need some advice. I have a 3 year old lab since he was 6 weeks. Until today he has been a gentle and affectionate dog. I have 4 kids and he has never even jumped on them as he has been thought from a pup not to.
    Well,this evening he was given his food,and my 3 year old was sitting beside him as she has done most evenings. She put her hand in his bowl to give him some food(also not unusual for her to do) and he growled at her and nipped her finger. He didn't break skin or anything,but there was a red mark on her finger. I am sick at the thoughts of it.
    Anyway,my question is,should we keep him and hope it doesn't happen again or get a new home with no kids????? It would break our hearts having to get rid of him as he is well loved,but I'm terrified he will do it again and next time we won't be as close by. Can he be trusted now?????
    Thanks.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭antocann


    all im gona say is , dont go near a dog and its food , even if she was only putting it in the dish , he may have taught she was taking his food


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭SillyMangoX


    Simple, don't let your kid put their hand into your dog's bowl while he's eating. That dog wasn't being aggressive, he was being protective.
    ''Piss off, I'm hungry, this is mine''.
    If you continue to leave your child to play with the dog's food, it's an accident waiting to happen. This was a warning, I'd advise you to heed it! Even if the child does this before, they shouldn't. A dog is a dog is a dog, and only has so much patience!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    1. Keep your child away from your dog while he's eating.
    2. Keep your dog.
    3. Keep trusting your dog. If a 30kg labrador really wanted to hurt your three year old child, she'd have a stump where her finger was. As it stands, he was extremely put out at her interfering in his food bowl, so he gave her a warning shot to get her to go away. It's your responsibility to make sure your dog doesn't feel like he needs to take matters into his own paws.

    You need to supervise meal times more closely and give the dog space when he eats his dinner. In parallel to that, you can do some 'leave it' training with the dog with treats and value items, but NOT with his dinner - don't ever mess with a dog's meal by taking it from him after you've given it to him. That does nothing but enforce his belief that people will take his food off him, and how he reacts to that will depend on the person he thinks is a threat (e.g. he'll back off his dinner if it's you, but may go for one of your children because if you mess with his dinner all you teach him is that he's at risk of losing his dinner).

    Unless your three year old is old enough to understand how to interact with the dog and his dinner, the only two things you should be teaching her are never to touch the dog's food while he's eating, and if the dog has something she owns and she wants it back, she calls a grown up (and never tries to take it herself).

    You probably feel very betrayed and upset right now - that'll pass. Your dog is still the same dog. He was just very frustrated and agitated and was probably giving off all sorts of signals that your child plain missed and eventually he felt he had no other open than to send her away from his food. He really didn't mean to hurt her - if he'd meant to hurt her, this would be a whole other thread. Try reading up on some dog body language yourself so you understand more of what your dog is trying to tell you and your kids.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,737 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Your dog is not dangerous, it's tired of being pestered when eating! You wouldn't want your kids sticking their hand in your dinner, would you? Teach your kids that the dog's bowl is off limits and the problem will all fixed. Dogs are not toys, and they will only take so much, a 3year old is old enough to be taught better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    I knew I was going to get replies about not letting anyone near his food. But this dog has always had kids beside him while eating for the past 3 years and never had a problem. And the kids have always taken food out of his bowl while hes eating and he takes it from their hands.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭antocann


    phili01 wrote: »
    I knew I was going to get replies about not letting anyone near his food. But this dog has always had kids beside him while eating for the past 3 years and never had a problem. And the kids have always taken food out of his bowl while hes eating and he takes it from their hands.

    but thats the problem


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭SillyMangoX


    But they shouldn't, it's asking for trouble. You want to set your dog up for success, not get rid of him when he's pushed to the limit. Dog's are very protective of their food, even if he never snapped before, he obviously got sick of it. He warned your child, if he wanted to hurt your kid, they would be in hospital. Take his warning, your dog is now sick of being tormented while eating, keep the kids away.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    I understand what you're all saying and thanks for the replies. I suppose I am still in shock by it, and feel if he did this could he do the same if the kids have something he wants in their hands?????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭SillyMangoX


    It's a possibility with any dog that it might happen, but train train train and you shouldn't have a problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,807 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    phili01 wrote: »
    I knew I was going to get replies about not letting anyone near his food. But this dog has always had kids beside him while eating for the past 3 years and never had a problem. And the kids have always taken food out of his bowl while hes eating and he takes it from their hands.

    Its in a dogs instinct to protect his food and this get stronger as they get older - I would never allow a child to approach my lot while they are being fed., even though they often play with my young nieces and nephews outside of feeding time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    This is why I'm so confused by it. He is so well trained,even with the kids. He sits on command,comes back when called,walks on lead no problem for us and kids,waits for his food ect.
    Its so out of character.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭SillyMangoX


    Is he trained to leave it and drop what he has?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭barbiegirl


    Phil we grew up with lots of dogs and no matter what there were two rules 1 let sleeping dogs lie and 2 leave their food alone. Times have changed but dogs haven't. Your dog is still your dog he's just all grown up and fed up with youngsters at his food. He gave her a warning, an ah ah, nothing more, but take it for the warning it is and respect the dogs space.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    SillyMangox-yeah he drops when hes told.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    phili01 wrote: »
    I knew I was going to get replies about not letting anyone near his food. But this dog has always had kids beside him while eating for the past 3 years and never had a problem. And the kids have always taken food out of his bowl while hes eating and he takes it from their hands.
    Stop them doing that, its really testing your dogs patience unnecceserily. Just leave it eat its dinner in peace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    barbiegirl wrote: »
    Phil we grew up with lots of dogs and no matter what there were two rules 1 let sleeping dogs lie and 2 leave their food alone. Times have changed but dogs haven't. Your dog is still your dog he's just all grown up and fed up with youngsters at his food. He gave her a warning, an ah ah, nothing more, but take it for the warning it is and respect the dogs space.

    This x1000 let the dog eat in peace, and this is also why I don't have dogs on furniture trying to rest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭SingItOut


    I have a 4 year old labrador who was VERY food aggressive as a puppy, I stopped that very quickly. Whether or not your child puts her hand in the dogs bowl does NOT justify your dog growling or snapping/nipping at her. You need to *nip* it in the bud immediately. The way I did it was anytime Frankie, my lab, got snappy around his food it was taken away from him and he never got it until the next meal time. He has never done it since then. Obviously your dog is bigger than mine was at the time but this is the method that worked for me.

    I honestly wouldn't be worried that your dog is going to maul your kids though, Labradors as you know LOVE their food so sharing is not an option for them, but snapping or growling is not acceptable no matter the situation. I often put my hands in my dogs bowls to put back in the kibbles they've knocked out on the floor, never any problems with me doing that, although if the cats went over god love them!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    I wouldn't leave your kids stick their hands in his food or be near him when he is eating, as other posters have mentioned dogs are protective of food, he is obviously getting irritated by the fact that the kids play with his food when he is eating. I don't think it was anything more than that, he was basically telling your little one to back off a bit and leave him in peace.

    If you are worried that he will take food out of their hands then teach him the leave it command, however I don't think the two are related, my guess is if he hasn't ever bothered the kids when they have something in their hands then he won't start now, I think he was just asking that they give him same courtesy, and nipping was the only way he could get that across.

    There is no reason for alarm at the moment, certainly not to think of re-homing him. Just stop the kids from bothering him when he is having his dinner and I don't think you will have any more issues.

    P.S. I would be careful about telling this to other people, some people go into hysteria when they hear a dog has shown the slightest bit of aggression and will think you have a killer dog on your hands, when from what I can tell you have a very patient, gentle, loving and loyal family pet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    We thought we were doing good when he was a pup,teaching him not to jump up on people as we knew how big he was going to get,not let him into sitting room for the same reason,and getting him to tolerate people at meal time to avoid this......Don't think I'll be getting any awards for pet psychology:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    P.S. I would be careful about telling this to other people, some people go into hysteria when they hear a dog has shown the slightest bit of aggression and will think you have a killer dog on your hands, when from what I can tell you have a very patient, gentle, loving and loyal family pet.[/QUOTE]


    Well,this is my fear too that people will be afraid of him. I have kids out my back all the time with him and he loves it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    SingItOut wrote: »
    I have a 4 year old labrador who was VERY food aggressive as a puppy, I stopped that very quickly. Whether or not your child puts her hand in the dogs bowl does NOT justify your dog growling or snapping/nipping at her. You need to *nip* it in the bud immediately. The way I did it was anytime Frankie, my lab, got snappy around his food it was taken away from him and he never got it until the next meal time. He has never done it since then. Obviously your dog is bigger than mine was at the time but this is the method that worked for me.

    I honestly wouldn't be worried that your dog is going to maul your kids though, Labradors as you know LOVE their food so sharing is not an option for them, but snapping or growling is not acceptable no matter the situation. I often put my hands in my dogs bowls to put back in the kibbles they've knocked out on the floor, never any problems with me doing that, although if the cats went over god love them!
    When it happened he was put straight down to his pen without finishing his food and I haven't gone near him since.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16 Coriander


    He sounds like a pretty good dog to be honest so I wouldn't be putting myself down if I were you - sounds like a one-off and leaving him eat in peace in future should do the trick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    OP, you are letting your three year old seriously overstep the mark with your dog and it seems you are not reprimanding the child for it. It your job as a parent to discipline your kids, not the dogs. It's also your job as a dog owner to make sure your dog doesn't feel threatened by your kids, you are leaving the dog with no other choice than to do your job for you. Honestly . . . I am completely gob-smacked with this one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Honestly have had dogs my entire life, and the first thing a child should be taught is to leave the dog well alone when hes eating,

    In my opinion there are very few times when a dog prefers to be alone but when eating and when sick are two of them.

    I would actually consider it a good litttle lesson for the child not to be at the dog when its eating, dogs have limits too and the sooner kids learn them the more at ease they can be with dogs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    OP, you are letting your three year old seriously overstep the mark with your dog and it seems you are not reprimanding the child for it. It your job as a parent to discipline your kids, not the dogs. It's also your job as a dog owner to make sure your dog doesn't feel threatened by your kids, you are leaving the dog with no other choice than to do your job for you. Honestly . . . I am completely gob-smacked with this one.
    A little bit rude???? He tolerated this for years so had no reason to discipline my daughter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭SingItOut


    phili01 wrote: »
    When it happened he was put straight down to his pen without finishing his food and I haven't gone near him since.

    If that was a few hours ago you could probably let him back in now, he would have learned his lesson the minute he was put in his pen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    SingItOut wrote: »
    If that was a few hours ago you could probably let him back in now, he would have learned his lesson the minute he was put in his pen.
    Hes gone for a walk with hubby. But he def won't be staying indoors tonight.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭barbiegirl


    You are choosing to ignore all advise but those that reflect your own opinion and put blame no where but on the dog. The dog did no damage, it issued a restrained warning and you have punished it and taught it that you will take it's food. Kids and dog food don't mix end of. It's not a new concept just one you chose to ignore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭SingItOut


    OP, you are letting your three year old seriously overstep the mark with your dog and it seems you are not reprimanding the child for it. It your job as a parent to discipline your kids, not the dogs. It's also your job as a dog owner to make sure your dog doesn't feel threatened by your kids, you are leaving the dog with no other choice than to do your job for you. Honestly . . . I am completely gob-smacked with this one.

    Yes the child shouldn't have put her hands in the bowl, but that is no excuse for the dogs behaviour to be acceptable or tolerated. Who's to say it won't happen if somebody is simply walking past the bowl? The dog needs to know what he's done is not acceptable, with training and supervision that is possible. There's should be no difference whether it was a child or adult that put their hands in the bowl, I adore animals, obviously, but they need to understand what they can/can't do, mine certainly do.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    phili01 wrote: »
    A little bit rude???? He tolerated this for years so had no reason to discipline my daughter.
    Just cause he tolerated it doesnt mean its right though, honestly your daughter doesnt need to be disciplined as she was never taught any better but it should be explained that when dogs get older they like to eat alone or something to that effect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    barbiegirl wrote: »
    You are choosing to ignore all advise but those that reflect your own opinion and put blame no where but on the dog. The dog did no damage, it issued a restrained warning and you have punished it and taught it that you will take it's food. Kids and dog food don't mix end of. It's not a new concept just one you chose to ignore.
    I'm not choosing to ignore it,but like I said, he was taught from a pup to tolerate this. And I make no apologies for reprimanding a dog for nipping a child nomatter what the reason was.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    SingItOut wrote: »
    Yes the child shouldn't have put her hands in the bowl, but that is no excuse for the dogs behaviour to be acceptable or tolerated. Who's to say it won't happen if somebody is simply walking past the bowl? The dog needs to know what he's done is not acceptable, with training and supervision that is possible. There's should be no difference whether it was a child or adult that put their hands in the bowl, I adore animals, obviously, but they need to understand what they can/can't do, mine certainly do.

    The dog has just been punished for having its food taken from it, what training concept is this based on :confused:. Kids put their hands in your food and multiple bad things happen, okay dog - that's how it is, that's your 'training' advise??

    It's very likely that it will happen again now it's been taught that it has no shortage of reasons to get cranky about it.

    Dogs in my house have been desensitised to kids putting their hands in their bowl, I can tell you this was not done by letting them do whatever they want and play with the dogs food.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭Get In There


    phili01 wrote: »
    A little bit rude???? He tolerated this for years so had no reason to discipline my daughter.

    What do you want us to say? You're gonna keep refusing to heed good advice cos you can't concede you failed to teach your kid to leave the dog be when it's feeding.

    The incident was a result of poor parenting or poor training of the dog. No other way of looking at it. So the buck stops with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    phili01 wrote: »
    I'm not choosing to ignore it,but like I said, he was taught from a pup to tolerate this. And I make no apologies for reprimanding a dog for nipping a child nomatter what the reason was.

    No it hasn't been taught from a pup to tolerate it, it's been forced to repress it's emotions about it. That's why you have started a thread about a dog nipping a 3 year old that was messing with it's food.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 phili01


    OK,now my parenting is in question?????Really????
    As for forcing him to 'repress his emotions',come on. I'm sure dogs don't like to sit when told either so should they growl and nip then???
    Anyway,tomorrow will begin as normal,slate clean. Kids will be told to not feed him his food,but I don't like the sound of making sure noone is near him when hes eating,he should be able to tolerate people near him.
    Thanks for the advice.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    You really are skating on thin ice here by the sounds of it. You have gotten a lot of very good advice from very experienced dog owners here so i would highly advise you to heed it.
    Dogs can only communicate by growling and nipping if they arent happy with something, so does this not tell you something?? Your dog was NOT happy with your child in his bowl taking his food and he told her that by giving a warning.

    Also, please dont leave him outside if he always sleeps inside. He will have absolutely no clue as to why you are leaving him outside. Dogs live in the moment, he will not connect the incident earlier to having to sleep outside so that would be very unfair on him to do that.

    I suggest you do some reading up on dog behaviour and psycology (sp) and learn exactly how dogs communicate and behave, you might learn a lot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    There are some really excellent posts on here about raising kids and dogs together and the key is not having the dog in a position where it feels the need to discipline the child by giving them nips like they would do with pups. Regardless of him tolerating it for the last 3 years he doesn't want the kids sticking their hands in his bowl. Possibly having the food interfered with is what's causing him to guard it? If somebody was messing with my dinner it'd take a lot less time than 3 years before they had a fork stabbed in their hand - more like 3 mins!!

    IMO you need to get the kids to back off and let him eat his meals and work on the guarding yourself. My GR is almost 3 (his birthday is next week lol) and a few months ago he started guarding new treats he was getting by growling - I started dropping treats beside him and walking away.. after a few days he'd look up when I came to him so I gave him loads of praise and walked away..a few days of that and I petted him when I praised him...a few days later I asked for his paw, praised and gave him the treat. I took it very slowly and went at his pace and it solved the problem - NB I was confident this was something I could handle myself as I've learnt to read him quite well. At no time did I touch the treat/bone - I waited until he trusted me enough to 'swap' it with me for a different treat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    phili01 wrote: »
    As for forcing him to 'repress his emotions',come on. I'm sure dogs don't like to sit when told either so should they growl and nip then???

    My dogs love to sit when they are told, Sit = praise, treats, physical contact so why would they not like doing it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    antocann wrote: »
    all im gona say is , dont go near a dog and its food , even if she was only putting it in the dish , he may have taught she was taking his food

    Food aggression is one thing I will never, ever, ever, ever tolerate in any dog I own. Training to give up food/possessions when is something I always encourage for the dogs safety and peoples.

    I hate the ahhh just being a dog argument.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    The dog is three years old. This means he has eaten at least one meal a day, 364 days a year, for three years. That's at least 1,092 meals.

    Have you eaten your last 1,092 meals in perfect temper at all times without ever snapping at or losing it with a family member? Have you been consistently cheery and non-reactive to all stimulus around you for the last 1,092 dinners in a row?

    Set your dog up to succeed. Show him that you won't let the kids near him when he eats. Trust me, your dog IS intelligent enough to note when you stop someone approaching him while he's eating his dinner. He looks to you for guidance - if he sees you intervene he will feel less pressure to do something about it himself.

    If it was particularly out of character for him, take him to the vet. He may be out of sorts - perhaps he has pain, a muscle strain, a stomach ache, some other underlying medical condition that meant he wasn't in quite as good a mood as usual.

    Also, your daughter has grown over the last three years and her behaviour will have changed dramatically throughout the dog's life. All he knows is that she does new and bizarre stuff ALL THE TIME because she's a small child. She's the one who moves the goalposts, not the dog.

    Again, set your dog up to succeed. Learn to read his body language before he resorts to growling or a snap. Does his body stiffen when someone approaches his food bowl? Does his tail stop wagging? Does he eat with his head down and roll his eyes up to see who's coming? Does he crouch low over the bowl? Does he stop eating mid-bite if you get close to him? Does he freeze or close his mouth? Does he move his body over the bowl as opposed to stepping away from it? All of those gestures are the dog clearly communicating 'this is mine, go away'. If you don't know to look for them, you won't see them. For all you know, your dog has been telling your kids to go away for over 1,000 meals and they've ignored him until he upped the volume.

    It's a stretch to think that a dog who's snapped once in over 1,000 dinners when someone tried to take something he already had is inadvertently going to progress to savaging the children when they have something he wants.

    Learn dog body language and put your dog in a position where he can't fail.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭tazwaz


    hi op, i'm sorry to hear your dog snapped at your child but i'm also sorry to hear that your dog was excluded from your family for the rest of the day.
    i havent got kids but i do have a neighbours little girl (2) that comes to my house nearly every day to give my little dog a treat. she comes in, gives him a treat, and her mam makes her leave him alone for the few minutes he's eating it and then she gets to rub him. there was one time when she ran after him trying to rub him while he was eating the carrot and her mam put her on the bold step to make her understand that she cant annoy a dog when the dog has food.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    OP...

    You have been given excellent advice her from 99% of the posters. and i would say to you to heed it...

    From the time my cocker was 8 weeks old we too moved his bowl... scopped up some nuts and hand fed him etc as like you we wanted him not to be "hand shy" or food agressive etc... BUT it was only us (my hubby and I) who went near his food... I would NEVER allow my neices / nephews to do the same... my cocker is very gentle, he is such a softie and i have never heard him growl or show any signs of agression BUT I would never allow a child to go near his food etc.

    Nobody is saying your child is in the wrong what they are saying is teach your child to leave your dog in peace while eating. I would have no problem with people being near the dog while eating just dont put little fingers in the dogs bowl etc... its not fair on your dog (your testing his patience - maybe he was having a bad day) and not fair on your child putiing him / her in that situation - its a receipe for disaster if you ask me.

    from what you've said you dog ahs been the perfect pet for 3 years now... dont give up on him for one small glitch... teach your children to respect him while he is eating and all will be ok. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭TooManyDogs


    There's a number of factors here. Of course resourse guarding shouldnt be tolerated but honestly it doesn't sound like that's what's going on here. Resourse guarding usually manifests itself in reaction to percieved infractions rather than actual infractions, so you walking past the dog bowl or standing near to a dog eating a treat rather than actively trying to remove the bowl/treat. All my dogs have been trained that I or my husband can take their food bowls off them without any issue but it's very rarely used because there's a reason we were all taught as kids to leave the dog alone while it was eating. Food goes down to an instinctual level with dogs, once they have possesion of food no pack member will ever attempt to take it off them and they will guard it fiercely, when we teach them that we can take their bowl we're asking them to supress this instinct so while they should give up their food bowl when we ask equally we shouldn't ask unless there is a very good reason for it.

    Generally puppies are allowed float from adult to adult eating their food but as the pup gets older the adults become less and less tolerant of this, the same is true of your child. So for 3 years your dog has allowed your daughter to put her food into the bowl, he has now decided she's too old for such baby manners, there will have been more subtle signals over the last few days that you must have missed. This is why I always say never put the child and dog in a position where the dog has to correct the child, because a nip is way way down the warning scale and only came to that because previous warning signals were ignored.

    To say that the dog will go onto to randomly bite if your daughter has something in her hand or randomly attack anyone going past the food bowl is over the top completely, this was a reaction to a specific situation and should be treated as such. I'd say if you stopped your daughter sitting beside your dog at dinner time and stopped her putting her hands into the food bowl it will never happen again. My 2 year old helps us feed the dogs by putting the food in to the bowl, putting the bowls on the ground and then calling the dogs in to their dinner in order, but never is she allowed to go near them until they've finished their dinner.

    I know dogs are family pets and as such domesticated but they are still a different species and we will never be able to stop all their instinctual behaviours, we have to learn to adapt to them as they learn to adapt to our ways. Dogs come under immense pressure to conform in my opinion, if a cat scratched a child for playing with their dinner there'd be a 'sure it's a cat, what do you expect', same for a rabbit if it nipped a child it'd be 'well don't do that again'. Horses aren't expected not to kick if they get startled by someone behind them, we're all taught never to walk behind a horse and if someone does get a kick we don't then jump to the conclusion that the horse is now going to go on the rampage. I think we need to be a little more species tolerant with dogs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    Look we dont expect humans to behave all the time. We cant make children, or adults, behave all the time. What makes people think we can make an entirely different species behave perfectly all the time.

    I'm really starting to despair for the poor dogs in this country. The level of expectation people seem to have is insane.
    Surely people realise that if a dog is fed up it cant actually turn around and say that to us, so it has to show it the only way it can.

    OP, your dog is not going to turn into a savage killer just becuase he got grumpy with his food being played with and told your child to go away. The dog was behaving naturally. You are interpreting this behaviour as as something more than it is.

    I'm starting to have the opinion that most* people with babies or young children just shouldnt have dogs period. Not because there is any threat to the child, but because the parents become incapable of thinking rationally about the dogs behaviour. The dog will end up being pts or rehomed purely because of the owners hysteria. If you'er so worried about your kids, dont get a dog, let it go to a home where it will be understood.

    * Note I used the word most, not all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    I'm starting to have the opinion that most* people with babies or young children just shouldnt have dogs period. Not because there is any threat to the child, but because the parents become incapable of thinking rationally about the dogs behaviour. The dog will end up being pts or rehomed purely because of the owners hysteria. If you'er so worried about your kids, dont get a dog, let it go to a home where it will be understood

    Have to say completely agree with this point.

    I had dogs when i was a child and yes on occasion they did bite me, and i was the one who got in trouble wth my parents not the dogs... this was mostly due to the fact that i have been told 100's of times to leave the dogs alone by my parents and by the fact that the dogs would give me "go away signals" i still presisted in cuddling them... hence i got bitten not badly or anything just a nip to say "piss off". EVERY time my paresnt would say i told you to leave him alone etc... it took me years and a couple of nips and i learned (yes I am slow learner ;))

    While i am not condoning dogs biting etc but in my opinion it can happen and does happen through no fault of the animal... parents today are all hyped up etc... they cannot differenceiate between a nip and aggression :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Well I think the OP got loads of good advice and I bet the dog is back in the house now and both baby and dog are acting like nothing happened at all. I'm sure they both will move on a lot quicker than the OP (as the parent, owner and "protector" will).

    How are things between them today OP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    just as an interesting side note, isnt this behaviour similar to what a dog would do to its misbehaving pup , give it a little nip but not bite down hard or anything.
    It just seems to me its a technique dogs use to put manners on their pups. I dont really see it as anything but a natural response from the dog


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 651 ✭✭✭falabo


    never EVER let a child go near a dog while they're eating. even adults should stay away.

    what's the point anyway ? can the dog not be left alone while eating ??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭SingItOut


    The dog has just been punished for having its food taken from it, what training concept is this based on :confused:. Kids put their hands in your food and multiple bad things happen, okay dog - that's how it is, that's your 'training' advise??

    The dog was punished for growling/nipping, not for having his food taken away. Yes actually that is my advice. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make me wrong. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    SingItOut wrote: »
    The dog was punished for growling/nipping, not for having his food taken away. Yes actually that is my advice. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make me wrong. :rolleyes:

    A dog who is punished for guarding will likely escalate its behaviour. I'm not sure this was guarding, but I don't think punishing the dog will do anything but cement in the dogs head that baby near food = something to be feared/not tolerated.


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