Possible to put modern engine in vintage car

lightspeed

Hi all, i quite like vintage cars but i only drive automatic cars. The trouble is a lot of them have very large engines. Im looking at cars within the €3000 price range. Is it possible to put a modern smaller engine into an old vintage car? Id also like to know if it would be possible to convert a manual car to auto transmission which i imagine would be quite costly, but just wondering if it is possible.

Thanks, Regards
Andrew

hi5

I dont think you would have to go to that much trouble,but most conversions are possible.

Theres currently 186 automatic vintage cars for sale on Donedeal.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/find/vintagecars/for-sale/Ireland/automatic?source=all

Capri

The cost of the conversion / issues with spring rates, engine/g-box mounts, exhaust etc would far outweigh it's desirability.

The older engines are less complicated and easier to tune / service.

Just buy your classic and find someone who KNOWS the model you've got, get the manual and a good parts supplier and enjoy the car.
Mercedes/VW/Rover/LandRover/Triumph/MG have good info networks/parts suppliers

lightspeed

yes but look at the engine size on most of them. The engine is at least 3.0 on most automatic vintage cars. I drive a 1.9 automatic BMW 318 E46 at the moment. It burns 10.9 L/100 Klm. I like the look of many vintage cars, and i also like the way the tax and insurance is quite low. I really like the MG midget cars. Its a pity they only come in manual transmission.

lightspeed

Capri wrote: »

The cost of the conversion / issues with spring rates, engine/g-box mounts, exhaust etc would far outweigh it's desirability.

The older engines are less complicated and easier to tune / service.

Just buy your classic and find someone who KNOWS the model you've got, get the manual and a good parts supplier and enjoy the car.
Mercedes/VW/Rover/LandRover/Triumph/MG have good info networks/parts suppliers

I did my driving license in an automatic so I really cant drive manual cars. That not something i regret, cause i really prefer automatic cars. I cant imagine ever driving a manual car again.
When you say conversion, are you referring to converting the car to run on a modern engine or converting a car from manual to automatic. I assume both are quite costly. I figure it may still be worthwhile if i choose a vintage car that i plan on keep for a long time.

Capri

I'm auto myself as much as possible - less wear and tear on the ol elbow and knee joints :cool:

Re an ENGINE conversion - if you had a VW rear engine then theres many conversions available - Subaru seems to be the most popular now, tho i've seen vans with Ford V6 / Audi 5's in them.

Alls I'm saying is that if you buy a classic that's running, why start tinkering with it ( and possibly end up losing interest/being out of pocket )

My latest is driving/taxed, bit of polish and I'm out on the road enjoying it - if I want to 'build' something I'll buy an Airfix kit for the winter

macplaxton

How about this slightly different angle on the solving the "problem".

Sub 2-litre / over 30 years old / automatic.

I've had these autos past/present:

1968 Wolseley 16/60 (1622cc)
1980 Austin Maxi 1750HL (1748cc)
1973 DAF 66SL (1108cc)
1972 DAF 44 (844cc)
1978 Volvo 343DL (1397cc)
1982 Volvo 343DL (1397cc)

Others autos I can think of off the top my head:
Morris Marina/Ital; Austin 1100/1300/1800 and variants; Renault 5, 12, 16, 18, MGB.

They are out there, just might take a bit more searching.

galwaytt

lightspeed wrote: »

yes but look at the engine size on most of them. The engine is at least 3.0 on most automatic vintage cars. I drive a 1.9 automatic BMW 318 E46 at the moment. It burns 10.9 L/100 Klm. I like the look of many vintage cars, and i also like the way the tax and insurance is quite low. I really like the MG midget cars. Its a pity they only come in manual transmission.

If a vintage car is €52 tax, what does it matter what size the engine is ? If it's economy you're after, a vintage is the wrong choice anyway. ..

Sids Not

galwaytt wrote: »

If a vintage car is €52 tax, what does it matter what size the engine is ? If it's economy you're after, a vintage is the wrong choice anyway. ..

+1
Older cars are rubbish on petrol...even the small engines ones...Old cars have big engines because theyre so heavy..:pac:
A modern conversion would be well out of most peoples pockets, too much electronics these days,..you'll find it even worse trying to convert from manual to auto..unless you have all the wiring, ign, ecu's etc....

Bigus

This would be a good way to start a conversion to a modern engine and electronics/immobilisers, these yokes below start on the key supplied in the original Dash, Hell you could even keep the subframe struts and brake to give modern braking along with abs


http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/tq/23/222746123.jpg

Muckie

I like this mans idea....

Link below shows it can be done...a lot of work involved too.

http://www.subaru-impreza.org/forum/modifications-tips-tricks/96534-wrx-sti-running-gear-swap-into-cortina.html

Nice sleeper to have.



Not your average Cortina

Anan1

It looks kind of bent out of shape, though, doesn't it?

Sids Not

Anan1 wrote: »

It looks kind of bent out of shape, though, doesn't it?

Just a bad pic......excellent work ...

paddy147

800bhp V8 Twin Turboed Granada filmed by myself at TOTB 3 years ago.

Theres also Imprezza turbo engined VW Beetles and also Imprezza Turbo 4 x 4 Mk2 Escorts aswell.

The choices are endless.:)

Go to 1 minute 5 seconds for the action.:D

Also a few 22 year old "classic" road going GTRs doing sub 9 second.:)

bijapos

lightspeed wrote: »

Hi all, i quite like vintage cars but i only drive automatic cars. The trouble is a lot of them have very large engines. Im looking at cars within the €3000 price range. Is it possible to put a modern smaller engine into an old vintage car? Id also like to know if it would be possible to convert a manual car to auto transmission which i imagine would be quite costly, but just wondering if it is possible.

Thanks, Regards
Andrew

Mercedes and BMW both have good automatic cars with the W123 200E and E12 or E28 520 or 525 auto. If your budget is €3000 a very good E28 524td auto should be within reach.

If you get something over 30 years it's cheap tax too. Both car are economical enough and will reach 28-30 MPG ca. 10l/100km on long runs.

VW offered Golfs and Jettas with auto boxes as well. They'd be even more economical.

Do-more

And if you ever win the Lotto you can give these guys a call...

http://www.mechatronik.de/welcome-to-mechatronik-the-spirit-of-classic-specialized-on-mercedes-classic-cars/

Capri

I like this mans idea....

Link below shows it can be done...a lot of work involved too.

http://www.subaru-impreza.org/forum/...o-cortina.html

Nice sleeper to have.

Nice and all as that Cortinaru is, I'm still thinking about the easier swop I did once - 2.8V6 into Cortina - used all the Cortina 2.3 mounts, rear diff ratio coulda been higher to give me more top end, but 0-60 :eek::eek::eek: !!

Pdfile

i'd like to go e21 bmw with e36 engine and box in ( i know some 92 and a few 93 reg deffo had e30 running gear, just a reshell, but in theory most parts would mix and match the e30 )


321 stock engine, decent gears & rwd...

Bigus

Pdfile wrote: »

i'd like to go e21 bmw with e36 engine and box in ( i know some 92 and a few 93 reg deffo had e30 running gear, just a reshell, but in theory most parts would mix and match the e30 )


321 stock engine, decent gears & rwd...

I wouldn't be going mad with six cylinders though, a 2.0 ltr modern four cyl BMW multivalve petrol in an old light shell would prob be sub 7 sec to 60 mph and late 40's mpg with 52 euro tax and no 55 euro annual NCT.

Itsfixed

Mercedes three years ago fitted a 1990 190e with a turbodiesel engine from a 2010 C-class blueefficiency model. The point was to show how far diesel engines had come in terms of fuel efficiency, performance and emissions from twenty years previously, or something like that. The 190d was very slow, mind. But still, serious megabucks involved in doing the conversion...

Capri

Itsfixed wrote: »

Mercedes three years ago fitted a 1990 190e with a turbodiesel engine from a 2010 C-class blueefficiency model. The point was to show how far diesel engines had come in terms of fuel efficiency, performance and emissions from twenty years previously, or something like that. The 190d was very slow, mind. But still, serious megabucks involved in doing the conversion...

The 190's a great machine -JUST comes in to 'vintage' this year (intro 82)

For the UK and Irish market a special edition 190 was released for the 1993 model year. The car was given the badge name 190LE though on the rear boot lid it read 190E (on the left hand side of the lock) and LE on the right hand side. Roughly 1000 LEs were produced and each one came with a large A3 sized certificate giving each car a unique number.

LEs were available in three colours only; Azzuro Blue (blue/purple), Brilliant Silver and Rosso Red (Burgundy). The Azzuro blue coloured cars came with a grey checked cloth interior, the silver ones with black checked cloth and the Rosso Red with biscuit/cream checked cloth.

LEs were equipped with extra features that had been options on the other models and were only available with the 1.8- or 2.0-litre engine. Both the 1.8- and 2.0-litre models were equipped with a standard electric tilt and slide steel sunroof, four electric windows, electric aerial, 8-hole alloy wheels, Blaupunkt Verona CR43 Radio/cassette and walnut wood trim (as opposed to Zebrano wood). The 2.0-litre-engined version had in addition rear headrests and a front armrest. The LE was nearly £3500 cheaper than a non-LE 1.8 car of identical specification, and £2000 cheaper for a 2.0-litre.

No further options could be added to LE cars from the factory - though some were equipped with other dealer-installed items.

IMO - that 'Blue efficiency' conversion , while interesting, would cost the earth and negate all savings to be made by using diesel both by initial cost and the cost of replacing modern diesel/electric components. If I was buying an old diesel I'd say MAYBE put a retro-turbo kit on it for a bit more poke but leave the basic old-tech diesel there for cost savings.
Any conversion to 'save' money on mpg, is outweighed by the cost of the conversion v's weekly milage

Do-more

This thread got me day dreaming about the possibility of replacing my current VW Passat estate with a W124 estate with a modern diesel in it.

A quick google suggested that the biggest hurdle is the ecu but google also helped in pointing me to various aftermarket ecu's which are now available for the express purpose of allowing modern diesels to to retro-fitted to older cars.

They are not cheap mind at €2500 - €4000 just for the ecu :eek:

But it does at least offer the possibility of doing the conversion.

Here's a link to a UK company and another in Holland who produce the aftermarket ECU's. UK link for the Adaptronic ECU @ £1099.

What I am not sure about yet is whether it is possible to have the Merc auto box with these ECUs or whether you need to have a manual box.

W124's can be had for small enough money these days, the question is whether you could re-fettle one to get another 10 years of daily running out of it and install the 320cdi engine and box for say €15k? If you could get 10 years out of it at €1500 a year depreciation it would be a viable alternative to buying a newer replacement car. Whatever it's worth in 10 years time would be a bonus.

Any thoughts? or should I just confine the idea to the bin?

Sids Not

Do-more wrote: »

.Any thoughts? or should I just confine the idea to the bin?

You mean like the op........................:)

Bigus

Do-more wrote: »

This thread got me day dreaming about the possibility of replacing my current VW Passat estate with a W124 estate with a modern diesel in it.

A quick google suggested that the biggest hurdle is the ecu but google also helped in pointing me to various aftermarket ecu's which are now available for the express purpose of allowing modern diesels to to retro-fitted to older cars.

They are not cheap mind at €2500 - €4000 just for the ecu :eek:

But it does at least offer the possibility of doing the conversion.

Here's a link to a UK company and another in Holland who produce the aftermarket ECU's. UK link for the Adaptronic ECU @ £1099.

What I am not sure about yet is whether it is possible to have the Merc auto box with these ECUs or whether you need to have a manual box.

W124's can be had for small enough money these days, the question is whether you could re-fettle one to get another 10 years of daily running out of it and install the 320cdi engine and box for say €15k? If you could get 10 years out of it at €1500 a year depreciation it would be a viable alternative to buying a newer replacement car. Whatever it's worth in 10 years time would be a bonus.

Any thoughts? or should I just confine the idea to the bin?

You can buy a very tax efficient modern low emissions car with modern safety standards for a lot less than 15k instead

Do-more

Bigus wrote: »

You can buy a very tax efficient modern low emissions car with modern safety standards for a lot less than 15k instead

I'm well aware of that, I'm running one as it is, but that misses the point of running an older car as a daily driver.

delthedriver

Do-more wrote: »

I'm well aware of that, I'm running one as it is, but that misses the point of running an older car as a daily driver.

Why run a classic as a daily driver? Surely there are other aspects to consider eg airbags for safety etc?

Sids Not

delthedriver wrote: »

Why run a classic as a daily driver? Surely there are other aspects to consider eg airbags for safety etc?

Air-con/climate control , cd player, heated seats, cruise control...etc etc..what are ya thinking......why would anyone want a classic car..full stop....:rolleyes:

delthedriver

Sids Not wrote: »

Air-con/climate control , cd player, heated seats, cruise control...etc etc..what are ya thinking......why would anyone want a classic car..full stop....:rolleyes:

Agreed.
I can understand the interest in Classic Cars by enthusiasts, however they are not running them as daily drivers. They are hobby, show cars.
The reason Insurance on these cars is low is due to the fact that they are treated by Insurers as second cars and limit the annual mileage.

dahamsta

There's loads of turnkey reengineering firms out there, here's a crowd that does Jags:

http://www.kwecars.com/

They're not cheap, but they work. Do some googling for other makes.

Worrying about big engines is just nonsense though, and the fact that you don't, or didn't, know about classic tax suggests that you've done zero research. (I realise this thread is research, but, you know, google.)

If engine size is your primary concern, I'd find another hobby. Because IMHO, the big engines, the bugs and the fixes, they're the whole point of owning a classic. If you're not willing to take them on, there's a forum for "motorists" over there.

(Disclaimer: I don't have a classic, for lack of storage. I'm slowly working my way back though, just moved from a '00 to a '96. )

Sids Not

delthedriver wrote: »

Agreed.
I can understand the interest in Classic Cars by enthusiasts, however they are not running them as daily drivers. They are hobby, show cars.
The reason Insurance on these cars is low is due to the fact that they are treated by Insurers as second cars and limit the annual mileage.

.....I was being sarcastic....the OP is long gone, and is probably bothering posters somewhere else with another "idea" he's having.....;)

dr.fuzzenstein

My position is always that you are better off leaving it the way it is.
If you want reliability, good MPG and plenty of poke, buy a "modren" car.
The classic experience is all about getting your hands dirty.
What I liked most about it was changing a head gasket, disassembling a Weber carb and refurbishing it and doing whatever else needs doing.
The point is that on a classic you can do all these things, because the engine does not have space shuttle technology on it that can only be serviced by Nasa.
Unless the classic you're buying is fairly rough and the engine missing/beyond repair, I wouldn't bother.
It would be like buying an old oil painting and start "improving" it by doodling on it with biro.
Or you could get one of those fake "oldtimers" that are so popular with weddings (shudders)
Or get a kit car.

Do-more

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

My position is always that you are better off leaving it the way it is.

For almost as long as there has been cars there has been hot rodders putting more modern mechanicals in older vehicles. Sure the purists don't like it and I'm not in favour of rare or special cars being rodded but I personally don't see any problem in run of the mill older cars being given a new lease of life with newer mechanicals.

dr.fuzzenstein

Do-more wrote: »

For almost as long as there has been cars there has been hot rodders putting more modern mechanicals in older vehicles. Sure the purists don't like it and I'm not in favour of rare or special cars being rodded but I personally don't see any problem in run of the mill older cars being given a new lease of life with newer mechanicals.

I'm just mentally scarred by a few conversions done locally here.
One is a 1977 Mercedes 450 SEL that had a diesel unit from a 300D shoved into it.
Usually to be seen very slowly and tortuously dragging itself around in a cloud of smoke and clatter.
The other one is a Jaguar XJS with a Nissan diesel unit in it.
If done right, a conversion can be a good thing, i agree.

dahamsta

Those are bad conversions certainly, but what would the world be like without deuce coupes, slammed mercs*, and more locally, nutty MK2 Esgrots? Boring, methinks.

(I used to dream about cars like that, but these days I go to extraordinary lengths for "stock". Old age I guess. I'd still give my left arm for the money to build a pro-street e34 though....)


* -ury, not -edes.