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Employer not giving annual leaves

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  • 30-06-2012 1:55pm
    #1
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭


    I'm a HS* employee on one year contract.
    I still have 7 days of annual leaves left with 5 days to end of contract. My supervisor agreed with that I'll take 5 days of these annual leaves at the very last week. I've written evidence of this as well (through an email of one one my colleague who arranged the rota). This email was send to my supervisor as well & he agreed to it.
    Now my supervisor is saying that he never agreed to this annual leaves & I've to stay & work.
    Does my supervisor has a legal ground to stand?
    I believe that annual leaves is my right & it is emplyers responsibility to give me my right.
    I've already spoken to the hospital manager, who is saying that my supervisor is right is stopping me as there are other people away at the same time. My supervisor has no problem with their leaves.

    What should I do?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    I've also spoken to one of the colleague of the supervisor & he is of the view is that the annual leaves are at employer discretion & if necessary the employer can stop people from going to the annual leaves.
    Hospital manger has informally told me that one of the options in this case is to give me extra pay although he hasn't given me this offer in writing when I request that.

    Can an emplyer stop employee from going I annual leave & offer him pay instead?
    Is that legal in Ireland?


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    #3
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    If you have written evidence you can have this as a back up,i would say challenge it,he has verbally informed you,and written it down,its all you need really.


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    #4
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    paying you for the extra days is normal i think.


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    #5
    IMightKnow
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭IMightKnow


    Yeah I think what usually happens in this case is if your contract ends and you have some leave days left, they just pay you for them.

    So there may be no issue here if you're prepared to just work next week and get 7 days extra pay?

    Id say this is more something to discuss with Human Resources though


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    #6
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    If you have written evidence you can have this as a back up,i would say challenge it,he has verbally informed you,and written it down,its all you need really.

    Didn't get your point?
    Whom should I challenge?
    I have already spoken to my supervisor & the his manger.

    I through lays though that these leaves are my legal right.

    Also as told before I've written evidence that he agreed to it in May in the firm if email that was sent to him by a person who usually organised the leaves.


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    #7
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    IMightKnow wrote: »
    Yeah I think what usually happens in this case is if your contract ends and you have some leave days left, they just pay you for them.

    So there may be no issue here if you're prepared to just work next week and get 7 days extra pay?

    Id say this is more something to discuss with Human Resources though



    I've disecussed this with human resources & they are telling the same story.


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    #8
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    But what if I don't want to take the pay & want to take my holidays?


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    #9
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    mumairsharif wrote: »
    But what if I don't want to take the pay & want to take my holidays?

    if the days off arent available i dont think you have the option. why not just take the extra money?


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    #10
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    There are still 5 days available & I want annual leaves, not the money.
    I can earn more money by doing locus if I want to work.


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    #11
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    I want to complain about my employer, but not sure what is the right place to do so?


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    #12
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    You are entitled to annual leave, but your employer can choose when you take annual leave. If they have other people on leave, then they may not be able to fulfill your request for annual leave.

    If you can't take the annual leave, then you should be compensated for it by being paid an additional amount.


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    #13
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Talk to HR again, with a copy of the email printed out. Tell them you have plans for that time that you cannot change, and that you made those plans based on the fact that your leave was approved in May.

    Ask them what they propose, and point out it is not your fault that they gave permission to too many people at one time. Don't shout, or threaten, or get angry and don't say too much. Just explain that you have plans (which are none of their business), and ask what they intend to do, then ask for that in writing.

    If you're in the HSE, is there an active union in your hospital? Are you a member? Can you talk to your union representative?


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    #14
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    dudara wrote: »
    You are entitled to annual leave, but your employer can choose when you take annual leave. If they have other people on leave, then they may not be able to fulfill your request for annual leave.

    If you can't take the annual leave, then you should be compensated for it by being paid an additional amount.

    this.


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    #15
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    Thoie wrote: »
    Talk to HR again, with a copy of the email printed out. Tell them you have plans for that time that you cannot change, and that you made those plans based on the fact that your leave was approved in May.

    Ask them what they propose, and point out it is not your fault that they gave permission to too many people at one time. Don't shout, or threaten, or get angry and don't say too much. Just explain that you have plans (which are none of their business), and ask what they intend to do, then ask for that in writing.

    If you're in the HSE, is there an active union in your hospital? Are you a member? Can you talk to your union representative?


    I've done all that & spoken to all the persons in the hospital that I can.
    They have seen the email & agreed to my opinion in private. The only person that is not agreeing is my supervisor.
    There is adequate cover available for me, but he has told that that there might not be adequate cover available for the junior staff that is going on holidays at the same time. This claim is also untrue because I've worked with the less than the cover the will be available next week.

    I can feel injustice.

    What will happen if I go on leaves. My point is that these are approved already in May.


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    #16
    Irish_Elect_Eng
    Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Irish_Elect_Eng


    If you just take the holiday anyway then that is the the same as quitting without notice. You will not then be paid for the last week, but you will get paif for any outstanding holidays.

    (But you will have burned your bridges with this employer and you can probably kiss good bye any chance of being rehired by the HSE in future.)

    Just take it and chalk it up to experience.


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    #17
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,983 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    mumairsharif wrote: »
    I'm a HSE employee on one year contract.
    I still have 7 days of annual leaves left with 5 days to end of contract. My supervisor agreed with that I'll take 5 days of these annual leaves at the very last week

    Is this not the most important part. If you work for a year don't you have to be allowed take your holidays at some point during that year at the employers discretion. For his six months, he is being told that he is not allowed take his statutory holidays during the term of his contract.

    Is that not illegal?


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    #18
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    mumairsharif wrote: »
    I'm a HSE employee on one year contract.
    I still have 7 days of annual leaves left with 5 days to end of contract. My supervisor agreed with that I'll take 5 days of these annual leaves at the very last week

    Is this not the most important part. If you work for a year don't you have to be allowed take your holidays at some point during that year at the employers discretion. For his six months, he is being told that he is not allowed take his statutory holidays during the term of his contract.

    Is that not illegal?
    No when I was let go I had 2 days leave left. I just got extra pay.


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    #19
    GOODME
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭GOODME


    If you really need to take the 5 days off before you leave, make sure you show them the agreement that your supervisor agreed to. even if he just replied saying OK ot will do.

    Then ask them when did the other staff request their holidays and when they were approved.

    I have noticed that many employers esp those supervisors like to play with people especially when they think you don't know your rights.

    As they have suggested tell them you had a plan for the 5 days, I just hope you did not talk too much to other staff telling them the plans for the 5 days as there is too much gossip in work places.

    There are personal issues or plans are best kept to yourself than to utter a word to another staff.

    That is why it is not good to be soft to these supervisors, most are wicked they will sit down ask your personal issue pretend like they are whatever they pretend but when they want to twist you around you will know who they really are.

    problem is other managers etc. they will listen to your supervisor, and just know that they know they don't need you any more so you are not worth a thing to them as you will be gone soon.

    I just hope you really have planned something for those days then it is worth challenging them, if not just relax finish and remind them that you will be waiting for the pay. If you are starting a job somewhere else just take this as a lesson. Next time get everything documents if there is no electronic system to prove vacation request and approval.

    Good luck!


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    #20
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    GOODME wrote: »
    If you really need to take the 5 days off before you leave, make sure you show them the agreement that your supervisor agreed to. even if he just replied saying OK ot will do.

    Then ask them when did the other staff request their holidays and when they were approved.

    I have noticed that many employers esp those supervisors like to play with people especially when they think you don't know your rights.

    As they have suggested tell them you had a plan for the 5 days, I just hope you did not talk too much to other staff telling them the plans for the 5 days as there is too much gossip in work places.

    There are personal issues or plans are best kept to yourself than to utter a word to another staff.

    That is why it is not good to be soft to these supervisors, most are wicked they will sit down ask your personal issue pretend like they are whatever they pretend but when they want to twist you around you will know who they really are.

    problem is other managers etc. they will listen to your supervisor, and just know that they know they don't need you any more so you are not worth a thing to them as you will be gone soon.

    I just hope you really have planned something for those days then it is worth challenging them, if not just relax finish and remind them that you will be waiting for the pay. If you are starting a job somewhere else just take this as a lesson. Next time get everything documents if there is no electronic system to prove vacation request and approval.

    Good luck!

    The real problem is that I have all the written evidence that this leave was requested on 2nd May & approved on 18th May & still he is not willing.
    The supervisor & manager both are saying that they are right in stopping me.


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    #21
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    mumairsharif wrote: »
    The real problem is that I have all the written evidence that this leave was requested on 2nd May & approved on 18th May & still he is not willing.
    The supervisor & manager both are saying that they are right in stopping me.

    Lads would I be right in saying that once its agreed that's it? He can head off and nothing can be done about it legally. Just you give the supervisor a headache.


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    #22
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Lads would I be right in saying that once its agreed that's it? He can head off and nothing can be done about it legally. Just you give the supervisor a headache.

    The problem in my organisation there is an additional form the supervisor has to sign. So although I've a written email saying he agreed, he never signed the form.
    But my point is that he is giving the leaves to other peoples (junior staff) & saying that I've to stay to cover the junior staff despite of the fact the adequate cover available for my leaves.
    My point is that he should have been stopping the junior staff is he has a problem.
    Is this favouritism?


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    #23
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    mumairsharif wrote: »
    The real problem is that I have all the written evidence that this leave was requested on 2nd May & approved on 18th May & still he is not willing.
    The supervisor & manager both are saying that they are right in stopping me.

    Lads would I be right in saying that once its agreed that's it? He can head off and nothing can be done about it legally. Just you give the supervisor a headache.
    No you're not. Previously agreed annual leave can be cancelled without prejudice or compensation within certain limits.


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    #24
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    Sulla Felix wrote: »
    No you're not. Previously agreed annual leave can be cancelled without prejudice or compensation within certain limits.

    What are these limits?


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    #25
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    mumairsharif wrote: »
    Sulla Felix wrote: »
    No you're not. Previously agreed annual leave can be cancelled without prejudice or compensation within certain limits.

    What are these limits?
    Specifics would be in the organization of working time act.


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    #26
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    Sulla Felix wrote: »
    Specifics would be in the organization of working time act.

    U probably won't believe me, but I worked more than 250 hours during the last 4 weeks to cover for the people's who were away.
    That really hurts.


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    #27
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Sulla Felix wrote: »
    No you're not. Previously agreed annual leave can be cancelled without prejudice or compensation within certain limits.

    Cheers. Wasn't sure about legislation as it is included in company rules.


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    #28
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    mumairsharif wrote: »
    The real problem is that I have all the written evidence that this leave was requested on 2nd May & approved on 18th May & still he is not willing.
    The supervisor & manager both are saying that they are right in stopping me.

    Feck the manager and supervisor - is there not a HR department and a union?

    The basic question comes down to whether or not you'd like another contract with them or not. As it's the HSE, I presume that a lot of the work you're qualified for is in their domain, so you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot here.

    How much do you want this time off - do you want the time off in preference to getting holiday pay instead?

    I really think you need to step over the supervisor and manager and bring this to the attention of the HR department. Point out that it is unreasonable that your supervisor expects you to cancel your holidays because of her poor scheduling, and ask for details of the formal complaints procedure.

    You can also try talking to NERA: http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/howdoigetmyrights/


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    #29
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    mumairsharif wrote: »
    U probably won't believe me, but I worked more than 250 hours during the last 4 weeks to cover for the people's who were away.
    That really hurts.

    It sucks, but if you had been working "normal" hours for months before that, it's allowable. However there must be at least 11 hours between your shifts, and you must get 35 consecutive rest hours in a 7 day period.


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    #30
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    Thoie wrote: »
    Feck the manager and supervisor - is there not a HR department and a union?

    The basic question comes down to whether or not you'd like another contract with them or not. As it's the HSE, I presume that a lot of the work you're qualified for is in their domain, so you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot here.

    How much do you want this time off - do you want the time off in preference to getting holiday pay instead?

    I really think you need to step over the supervisor and manager and bring this to the attention of the HR department. Point out that it is unreasonable that your supervisor expects you to cancel your holidays because of her poor scheduling, and ask for details of the formal complaints procedure.


    You can also try talking to NERA: http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/howdoigetmyrights/

    I've spoken to hospital manager, the biggest manager U can get & he is saying the same.

    What else I should do?


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    #31
    mumairsharif
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mumairsharif


    Thoie wrote: »
    It sucks, but if you had been working "normal" hours for months before that, it's allowable. However there must be at least 11 hours between your shifts, and you must get 35 consecutive rest hours in a 7 day period.

    Normal hours?
    Do U believe working 70 hours a week is normal?
    I don't even remember what the EWTD is.


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