BMW (Bad) Service

166man

Eric Cartman wrote: »

true, but even the 523i is about as 'slow' as a rwd luxury car should get.

Sugar, forgot about the 523i. I was thinking along the 530/535 etc. Supremely quick motors

irelandjoe

I heard that Watchdog on tonight at 8pm on BBC1 will be covering BMW engine issues. That I and many others have reported to them.

irelandjoe

Here is the Video of the watchdog clip.

myshirt

Basically BMW said to go f#ck yourself, they don't care.

Now that the issue has raised it's head again, what is the best way to avoid this problem?

Or is there one...

The dmf went in my e60, full bmw service history and only 60k on the clock. That stung the pocket... and hurt me bad, it really upset me.

If the timing chain snaps, hell will be unleashed.

Eric Cartman

myshirt wrote: »

Basically BMW said to go f#ck yourself, they don't care.

Now that the issue has raised it's head again, what is the best way to avoid this problem?

Or is there one...

The dmf went in my e60, full bmw service history and only 60k on the clock. That stung the pocket... and hurt me bad, it really upset me.

If the timing chain snaps, hell will be unleashed.

buy a propper bmw with 6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinders

coolisin

Dual mass fly wheels are seen as a wear and tear item.

Don't think there is anything preventative you can do, oil topped up with correct oil at all times and the full bmw service history helps.

But not alot of help from BMW.


Have you got a 520D LCI model?

Old diesel

myshirt wrote: »

Basically BMW said to go f#ck yourself, they don't care.

Now that the issue has raised it's head again, what is the best way to avoid this problem?

Or is there one...

The dmf went in my e60, full bmw service history and only 60k on the clock. That stung the pocket... and hurt me bad, it really upset me.

If the timing chain snaps, hell will be unleashed.

Well that shows astonishing arrogance on the part of BMW imo - do they not realise the repeat business they are going to lose out on over this :mad:.

And they should realise that unhappy owners will bitch about "that stupid BMW diesel that's after landing me with a 5 grand plus bill".

Youd think a company that trades on its brand name to the extent BMW do would know a lot better.

I suspect there will be some smug feeling among Audi salesmen switching off their TVs after watching tonights programme .

God be with the days of the E34 5 series and E32 7 series - when BMWs actually were a premium car because of the car rather then a "premium brand image".

I feel for owners of modern cars that get stung for completely disgraceful big bills for things that should not be going wrong - and no manufacturer support.

Eric Cartman

Old diesel wrote: »

God be with the days of the E34 5 series and E32 7 series - when BMWs actually were a premium car because of the car rather then a "premium brand image".

you mean the days where people didnt expect a miniscule 4 pot putting out 6 cylinder power with tiny emissions and huge mpg figures ? When manufacturers were allowed take time to develop engines rather than have to race to comply to EU targets and tax bands or face a model sitting on forecourts all year. I miss those times too.

myshirt

Yes.

Late 2008 520d

I like the car, I don't want a 6 pot or anything else. I actually like the car.

Maybe the sound of your v8 distracted you, but suggestions like that don't really offer anything meaningful to the discussion.

Tea 1000

Old diesel wrote: »

Well that shows astonishing arrogance on the part of BMW imo - do they not realise the repeat business they are going to lose out on over this :mad:.

And they should realise that unhappy owners will bitch about "that stupid BMW diesel that's after landing me with a 5 grand plus bill".

Youd think a company that trades on its brand name to the extent BMW do would know a lot better.

I suspect there will be some smug feeling among Audi salesmen switching off their TVs after watching tonights programme .

God be with the days of the E34 5 series and E32 7 series - when BMWs actually were a premium car because of the car rather then a "premium brand image".

I feel for owners of modern cars that get stung for completely disgraceful big bills for things that should not be going wrong - and no manufacturer support.

They're kind of all the same now. Audi have nothing to be smug about.

unkel

irelandjoe wrote: »

Here is the Video of the watchdog clip.

Cheers for that, I liked the older mechanic

BMW's response (on the BBC website) can be summarised by this:

BMW wrote:

Where a fault has occurred on a vehicle with relatively low mileage, which has been serviced within the BMW network, the company has covered most of the repair out of goodwill, despite being outside of the warranty period

zagamuffin

Won't play on iPad....

pa990

zagamuffin wrote: »

Won't play on iPad....

Watchdog will have a show on Apple ipads next week

:P

Old diesel

Tea 1000 wrote: »

They're kind of all the same now. Audi have nothing to be smug about.

Agreed - but tomorrow morning its going to be a little bit easier to sell Audis - yes to be fair to BMW - I think they have the issue sorted on cars built after mid 2010 - I think. However - a lot of people watching the programme tonight won't think of that when making their purchase decision.

Your right though - Audis have their issues too - the injector issues on the 170 TDIs with the PD engine as well as the wider 2.0 TDI issues plus issues on other engines like the twin charged 1.4 mean that smugness shouldn't be happening in Audi land.

Victor Meldrew

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Small turbocharged diesels in family cars are still a new enough phenomenon and incidents like this happen to a lot of manufacturers , not just BMW. A diesel engine 2 litre or smaller giving out 170 odd bhp is most likely going to have issues.

20 years ago, it would have had 70 bhp out of a Diesel... and clouds of black smoke.

Wonder if having a Garage look at it is really effective..? I've been told mine is fine, but the M47's tend to sound sweeter at idle than the N47. If they turned round to people and said that they consider the chain a consumable part, with a life of 100,000kms, and they will discount the swap to the cost of a timing belt replacement on a regular car (€1,200), that would be fair enough. Breakages with warranty before that get goodwill that discounts it to €1,200.

Eric Cartman

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

20 years ago, it would have had 70 bhp out of a Diesel... and clouds of black smoke.

Wonder if having a Garage look at it is really effective..? I've been told mine is fine, but the M47's tend to sound sweeter at idle than the N47. If they turned round to people and said that they consider the chain a consumable part, with a life of 100,000kms, and they will discount the swap to the cost of a timing belt replacement on a regular car (€1,200), that would be fair enough. Breakages with warranty before that get goodwill that discounts it to €1,200.

the part cost is not a huge issue, if you were to buy a spurious chain or sprockets im sure theyd come to less than 300 , its the labor in removing and stripping the whole engine. no garage going to do 13-15 hours hard work with probably 2 mechanics for 800 or so .

Voodoomelon

Did you see the price of the crankshaft in the video on your man's invoice, £840!

Cerco

posted by unkel


"BMW's response (on the BBC website) can be summarised by this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW
Where a fault has occurred on a vehicle with relatively low mileage, which has been serviced within the BMW network, the company has covered most of the repair out of goodwill, despite being outside of the warranty period"

I think the other message is to buy the extended warranty.

Victor Meldrew

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the part cost is not a huge issue, if you were to buy a spurious chain or sprockets im sure theyd come to less than 300 , its the labor in removing and stripping the whole engine. no garage going to do 13-15 hours hard work with probably 2 mechanics for 800 or so .

It would need to be funded by BMW. If they can take the shock out of the price, (€1,200 would be "nice, but probably too low, paid that on a dealer timing belt swap on a megane), people will suck it up, and the RESALE on the cars from this period will be maintained. BMW can avoid being seen as German Alfa-Romeos. Which is where they are headed...

Also, is there any correlation with use / driving style and incidence of this?

What % of N47's are going "pop", what is the distribution curve based on mileage and oil change (or is Oil change a red herring ?)

Or, (whenever I mention it to BMW, they just rant at fora like this...)

Stallingrad

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you mean the days where people didnt expect a miniscule 4 pot putting out 6 cylinder power with tiny emissions and huge mpg figures ? When manufacturers were allowed take time to develop engines rather than have to race to comply to EU targets and tax bands or face a model sitting on forecourts all year. I miss those times too.

Good points but no excuse for bad design, timing chain at bulkhead is just stupid on a mainstream car.

Voodoomelon

I find it incredible that after god knows how many decades of making millions of engines, something as fundamental as a timing chain is not engineered correctly.

As with most internet reporting maybe the issue is overblown, but there does seem to be a common trend here, regardless of mileage.

Eric Cartman

Stallingrad wrote: »

Good points but no excuse for bad design, timing chain at bulkhead is just stupid on a mainstream car.

well considering BMW only had about a year to redo the M47 to meet euro 5 standards , and had to find space for the DPF , I can understand why things had to be reoriented.

galwaytt

AltAccount wrote: »

Have you nailed down whether you can claim back the VRT yet?

He absolutely can. And the sooner you export that pile, the better imho. Can you imagine what those engined models are going to be worth in a few years time, with several years history of trouble ? Will make Mazda's diesel dept smile, that's for sure......

galwaytt

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

BMW can avoid being seen as German Alfa-Romeos.

Actually, that's quite a dis-service to Alfa: their diesels are amongst the best there is.

Victor Meldrew

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well considering BMW only had about a year to redo the M47 to meet euro 5 standards , and had to find space for the DPF , I can understand why things had to be reoriented.

I actually like the power delivery of the N47, and BMW's are just more involving to drive than a comparable Audi. But I would agree with you and add that manufacturers are, generally, slaves to EU emissions and the Fleet market.

We are at the learning curve of big output, small motors. It was never going to be pleasant.

Couple that to how good non turbo petrols had become in terms of reliability in the late 90's, and we have really been bounced into a horrible place.

Victor Meldrew

galwaytt wrote: »

Actually, that's quite a dis-service to Alfa: their diesels are amongst the best there is.

But the perception of being lovely to drive, different, but for the "committed" (...to providing mechanics with jobs...) that remains...

NuckingFacker

Stallingrad wrote: »

Good points but no excuse for bad design, timing chain at bulkhead is just stupid on a mainstream car.

Umm- also used on the shalhambraxy v6 diesels- and similarily disasterous. Dumb engineering.

166man

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

But the perception of being lovely to drive, different, but for the "committed" (...to providing mechanics with jobs...) that remains...

Does it?

Dad's 2010 Alfa 159 diesel wagon - 86k km on it now and nothing other than tyres and servicing has needed to be changed. Rear wiper needed to be replace but that wasn't the cars fault as much as his own.

Done nearly 90k km and averages 44mpg with a mixture of driving. Tax is €500 a year and insurance is cheap. Car looks the business, drives extremely well and is comfortable and practical. Interior is as new - dgt on here will testify to that I'd imagine.

So there you go, a car for a mechanic? Possibly so, although the above disproves that - but it's a damn sight nicer than a run of the mill 520d in just about every department IMO - and it's timing chain won't sh1t itself at any random opportunity.

bitburger

not the first time this has happaned with BMW, there was a serious issue with the forks on the old f650 motorbikes that landed a few people in hospital when the front wheel broke off of the fork leg mid journey, BMW never had a recall but quietly redesigned the effected parts


http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393785

unkel

No one has come up with any statistics of chain breaks of this engine. Is it less than 1% of all cars serviced by BMW within 6 years? (meh), Is it less than 10% of all cars never serviced by BMW within 6 years? (meh). Is it more? What is it?

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

We are at the learning curve of big output, small motors. It was never going to be pleasant.

Couple that to how good non turbo petrols had become in terms of reliability in the late 90's, and we have really been bounced into a horrible place.

Aye. And newer diesels have obviously become far worse with regards to massively expensive problems than petrols