Westport Service.

Oscar Bravo

The Westport service is a disgrace,i have booked on line several times lately and when i got on the train it was standing room only from Claremorris with a bus for people after Ballyhaunis to Dub due to over crowding.At least in the days of MK3 sets,they could easily stick on an extra coach or two to the set.but as we all know nowdays its either 1x3 piece ,2x3 piece or 6 piece/HC 6 piece.:mad:

River Song

Can't the 22ks operate as a 3x3 set, or would that be too long for some of the platforms along the way?

highlydebased

River Song wrote: »

Can't the 22ks operate as a 3x3 set, or would that be too long for some of the platforms along the way?

They regularly operate 6+3 out of service between Portlaoise train care and Heuston. The only problem is the platform lengths and selective door opening. I believe this does not yet exist or work.

Oscar Bravo

I have seen a 6 piece+3 picece operate empty from the train care depot to Heuston many a time,but these are of course empty workings.Never saw a 3x3 piece in operation even empty.and your spot on,platforms too long along the way.

Rud

I heard nothing but hassle from The West abour overcrowding on the routes and those complaints are well justified.Why don't they just put a 6 piece set on the route then get the people to move to the front of the train like the way they used to do it on the MK3s before platforms were extended at various stations.At least this was the case in Athy.The driver would tell people getting off at Athy from Heuston or Wateford to move forward as the platforms were too short

dowlingm

Rud wrote: »

Why don't they just put a 6 piece set on the route then get the people to move to the front of the train like the way they used to do it on the MK3s

Because the safety rules imposed on IE won't allow it, that's why. It is not under IE's control, full stop. The 22000s were accepted under the Railway Safety Act 2005 and while certain things may be grandfathered (like some existing platforms not being straight and non-accessible footbridges) anything more recent must comply.

What IS in IE's control is the fitting of SDO. They tendered for it but did not award. They should be obliged to explain this.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

Because the safety rules imposed on IE won't allow it, that's why. It is not under IE's control, full stop. The 22000s were accepted under the Railway Safety Act 2005 and while certain things may be grandfathered (like some existing platforms not being straight and non-accessible footbridges) anything more recent must comply.

What IS in IE's control is the fitting of SDO. They tendered for it but did not award. They should be obliged to explain this.

As far as I know they have now tendered twice for retro fitting of SDO and still nothing. Whoever rubber stamped the original contract for the 22000s without SDO should be sacked.

end of the road

Rud wrote: »

Why don't they just put a 6 piece set on the route then get the people to move to the front of the train like the way they used to do it on the MK3s before platforms were extended at various stations.At least this was the case in Athy.The driver would tell people getting off at Athy from Heuston or Wateford to move forward as the platforms were too short

oh begarra and begosh holey god bless us and save us shur we couldn't do something like that it would mean people moving to the front it would be like going back to the 1950s. with all this health and safety stuff, expecting people to move to the front to get off would be terrible as they would have to walk a little and they may not know where the front is, and they might have to take some responsibility god how we managed on the rosslare line with such a thing happening and having to put our hands out the window to open the doors when we had actual trains i'l never know.

dowlingm

end of the road

wax nostalgic all you like but if IE were being taken to the cleaners on a weekly basis by the professional litigants who find hairline cracks in the pavement to trip over (or pools of water where there were none before) there would be plenty being said here too.

With SDO IE could be running 6+3 between Heuston and Athlone, with the 6 car set beyond there determined by which leg had the higher demand. Instead it was deemed more important to jam all the passengers into 6 cars - but with wifi.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

wax nostalgic all you like but if IE were being taken to the cleaners on a weekly basis by the professional litigants who find hairline cracks in the pavement to trip over (or pools of water where there were none before) there would be plenty being said here too.

well dowlingm i'm sure thats true, if the courts weren't so happy to pander to such filth we probably wouldn't have to worry about them and such situations wouldn't exist therefore nobody to complain possibly, but the courts are happy to pander to them and side with them and therefore the rest does exist, that sort will be the death of everything looking for compensation for nothing because they fell over nothing and will never amount to anything because they probably don't know their names but know the word compensation. funny thing is that years ago you could tell the type who would be of such sort now days it could be anyone. oh well the world is gone to the dogs anyway but never mind.

dowlingm wrote: »

With SDO IE could be running 6+3 between Heuston and Athlone, with the 6 car set beyond there determined by which leg had the higher demand. Instead it was deemed more important to jam all the passengers into 6 cars - but with wifi.

well dowlingm IE were never good on priorities as i'm sure you well know, wouldn't expect anything less.

Organic Cavity

Mark 3's were cool.

Rud

Organic Cavity wrote: »

Mark 3's were cool.

They are still cool.Look at them there in Dublin,Waterford and Dundalk rotting away,years of life left in them,reusing to die off and scrap themselves to save IE the hassle.I'd love to get on train behind them again in this country,there should still be that option on particular routes in Ireland,but oh no

end of the road

Rud wrote: »

They are still cool.Look at them there in Dublin,Waterford and Dundalk rotting away,years of life left in them,reusing to die off and scrap themselves to save IE the hassle.I'd love to get on train behind them again in this country,there should still be that option on particular routes in Ireland,but oh no

are you surprised? this is the same company who put commuter trains designed for short distance routes on long distance regional routes, anyone know what the supposed reason for mark 3s not being able to operate on the rosslare line? it was bull anyway because they did a couple of time operate the sunday evening service during match days, the pushpulls in pull mode and an ordinary mark 3 set once, oh well i suppose they hoped operating 2700 2800 and 2900s would drive away the passengers so they could close the rosslare line well they failed so far thankfully. never mind expect the mark 3s the 2700s 8200s and maybe some of the 201s to go to the brakers anytime soon or maybe not as the government won't fall for their excuses this time.

Jamie2k9

Why don't they just put a 6 piece set on the route then get the people to move to the front

2 (3car sets) have 376 seats, 6 car First class set have 376 seats so 2 (3 car sets) better than a 6 car First class set. The only largers sets are the High Capacity sets which have 406 seats and there are only 5 sets. 3 operate on Sligo line, 1 operate on Waterford line and not sure about the other one but it operates from Heuston most of the time.

Irish Rail are currently working on the capacity problems and there should be details on it soon.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

2 (3car sets) have 376 seats, 6 car First class set have 376 seats

so each 3 car has 376 seats or 2 3 car sets together have 376 seats?

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

2 (3car sets) have 376 seats, 6 car First class set have 376 seats

so each 3 car has 376 seats or 2 3 car sets together have 376 seats?

together they have 376.

trellheim

What is wrong with looking at advance bookings on the website and think - "Oh, better put another 6-car set on as a relief," perhaps .... IE do it with the Enterprise so why not with known busy services ?

corktina

end of the road wrote: »

are you surprised? this is the same company who put commuter trains designed for short distance routes on long distance regional routes, anyone know what the supposed reason for mark 3s not being able to operate on the rosslare line? it was bull anyway because they did a couple of time operate the sunday evening service during match days, the pushpulls in pull mode and an ordinary mark 3 set once, oh well i suppose they hoped operating 2700 2800 and 2900s would drive away the passengers so they could close the rosslare line well they failed so far thankfully. never mind expect the mark 3s the 2700s 8200s and maybe some of the 201s to go to the brakers anytime soon or maybe not as the government won't fall for their excuses this time.

yeah but the alternative at the time was Cravens, much as i loved them; those units were a step in the right direction

Losty Dublin

trellheim wrote: »

What is wrong with looking at advance bookings on the website and think - "Oh, better put another 6-car set on as a relief," perhaps .... IE do it with the Enterprise so why not with known busy services ?

That then becomes an issue in ensuring that the specific railcar sets are in the right place to operate the right services as planned (These are called links by the company), which is nowhere near to plan out as easily as people would think.

The Galway/Westport works because it's giving Westport a fourth service daily while getting a 3 car set into Westport to operate an early morning service and a 3 car set onto a less used ex Galway service. Were a six car set to be placed on it instead, it has to taken off other services which means that they can be left short either for the outbound journey or the return into Dublin the next morning. You'd also then lose a train to Westport unless another set is found to connect at Athlone. While a six car set could be taken off the Tralee or Limerick evening services or indeed the 12:30 to Westport direct services, they'd then be short for the early morning trains into Dublin and their net day workings. Even then, that is assuming that a set is free and available at short notice in Heuston. Not to say it can't be done but it's not as simple as you'd think.

BTW there is no relief sets to and from Belfast.

dowlingm

trellheim wrote: »

What is wrong with looking at advance bookings on the website and think - "Oh, better put another 6-car set on as a relief," perhaps .... IE do it with the Enterprise so why not with known busy services ?

I think what you consider relief is actually a 75mph 29K subbing in for yet another failure on the DDs :eek:

Oscar Bravo

Re Westport service,word back from IE. As of last Monday the 1230 ex HN and the 1315 ex WPT have been boosted from a 3 piece to a 2x3 piece.

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

yeah but the alternative at the time was Cravens, much as i loved them; those units were a step in the right direction

well while that is true i think people would have rathered more comfortable cravens then the 2700 2800 and 2900 units. sure they may have been a step in the right direction but they weren't designed for such routes.

190E2.516

service is a joke. id to put a car on the road

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

well while that is true i think people would have rathered more comfortable cravens then the 2700 2800 and 2900 units. sure they may have been a step in the right direction but they weren't designed for such routes.

I didn't mourn the loss of the 2700s after enduring many a run on the Kerry road in them. Good riddance in fact.

end of the road

Karsini wrote: »

I didn't mourn the loss of the 2700s after enduring many a run on the Kerry road in them. Good riddance in fact.

i agree, horrid old yokes, the only reason i had against them being withdrawn was their age. are they the lightest of the commuter railcars or are the 2600s lighter?

popebenny16

there are still two (or three, depending on the make up) sets loitering down the guiness year of heuston. i glimpsed them on the way out the other day (thats about the extent of my trainspotting) so maybe if one of these consists of a 2x3 set they would have taken that.

3x3 sets i dont (open to correction of course) work, even in a move up the train way, as the entirity of the final set of three could be beyond a short platform leaving no way out from any exit.

i noticed on twitter that the weekend of the weslife concerts that there was severe problems out of westport/ballina. you know, the county the band are from. You would have thought such an obvious fact would have struck IE.....

trellheim

Is someone really going to tell me that with the new 22s coming online we are still magically at 100% fleet utilization ? That there aren't spare DMUs at the moment ?

I don't believe that for a moment.

PS I quite take your point regarding the 29k on the Belfast - that was what I was referring to

LXFlyer

Remember that the entire 2700 fleet has been withdrawn and the 2800s moved to Limerick.

There are two 22K sets now in Limerick for local Limerick duties, and at least 5 on Connolly based duties replacing the 2800s.

Oscar Bravo

Not so,i travelled on 2715/24 on the Ballina Branch earlier today.

LXFlyer

Well they are in the process of being withdrawn.

gobnaitolunacy

Karsini wrote: »

I didn't mourn the loss of the 2700s after enduring many a run on the Kerry road in them. Good riddance in fact.

Not really for long-ish runs. The old snot-green colour scheme was less than endearing imho. An ugly livery for a thing only a mother could love.

popebenny16

2700's still on the ballybrophy branch too. heating still set at maximum.

LXFlyer

Irrespective of 2700s still being in service (presumably while 2800s are being refurbished, the point I'm making is that 6-7 sets of ICRs have replaced other rolling stock rather than being additional to the fleet.

end of the road

the night before last i had a nightmare in which i was traveling on one of the horid yokes to dublin from wexford. brought back terrible memories.

YouTookMyName

At least Mark 3's you were nearly sure there'd be a proper feckin shop. And no intercom that wouldn't shut up.

popebenny16

YouTookMyName wrote: »

At least Mark 3's you were nearly sure there'd be a proper feckin shop. And no intercom.

sorted that for you there.

Millem

Travelled to Westport on the 1830 ex heuston last Friday and returned ex Westport on the 1745 on saturday. My first long distance run on a 22k.

Have to say I found the service excellent for the most part, and much faster than the car. As a pt masters student I was able to avail of a €20 return also!

Only caveats to the above are:
- seats are a bit firm, and hard to take on a 3hr + journey
- broadband a bit slow, nightmare if you're trying to upload attachments to email


Heuston to portarlington is an absolute dream, 90-100mph for the most part, think we did it in c. 45 mins ? Portarlington-athlone I think is a 60-70mph section, and afaik we passed crossing trains in geashill, Clara and clonydonnin, so we're a bit slower. Think the Westport branch is even slower again, and it seemed like an age to get from athlone to Westport.

Seems to be a lot of disused / abandoned stations on the Westport line, anyone have any info on these?

Losty Dublin

Off the top of my head, the closed stations include Islandeady which is 5 mile from Westport, Balla which controlled the line to Ballina, Bekan which is between Ballyhaunis and Claremorris, Ballinlough wich is a few miles outside Ballyhaunis and of course Knockcroughery which is the fringe box for CTC control. There was a halt close to the Hodson Bay Hotel which has been closed over 60 years; it's name escapes me but it's remains stand out as it has a red brick shelter on the platform.

You are right, the line does take it's time from Athlone onwards but it's more down to the amount of level crossings en route than anything.

demanufactured

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Off the top of my head, the closed stations include Islandeady which is 5 mile from Westport, Balla which controlled the line to Ballina, Bekan which is between Ballyhaunis and Claremorris, Ballinlough wich is a few miles outside Ballyhaunis and of course Knockcroughery which is the fringe box for CTC control. There was a halt close to the Hodson Bay Hotel which has been closed over 60 years; it's name escapes me but it's remains stand out as it has a red brick shelter on the platform.

You are right, the line does take it's time from Athlone onwards but it's more down to the amount of level crossings en route than anything.

Does Ctc end at knockrockery??

LXFlyer

Mini CTC starts there to Westport and Ballina.

Millem

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Off the top of my head, the closed stations include Islandeady which is 5 mile from Westport, Balla which controlled the line to Ballina, Bekan which is between Ballyhaunis and Claremorris, Ballinlough wich is a few miles outside Ballyhaunis and of course Knockcroughery which is the fringe box for CTC control. There was a halt close to the Hodson Bay Hotel which has been closed over 60 years; it's name escapes me but it's remains stand out as it has a red brick shelter on the platform.

You are right, the line does take it's time from Athlone onwards but it's more down to the amount of level crossings en route than anything.

Thanks for that guys. It's a really lovely journey. Only lamentable thing is the state of the mullingar branch at athlone, very overgrown & weedy.

Losty Dublin

Millem wrote: »

Thanks for that guys. It's a really lovely journey. Only lamentable thing is the state of the mullingar branch at athlone, very overgrown & weedy.

It sure is a lovely journey; far prettier than the run to Galway. The highlight for me is how on a good day you see the Reek from as far away as Castlerea and how it gradually grows and grows until you lose sight of it just as you arrive at Westport. It's a trip I've done many a time and I must say, all the stations en route are lovely and well kept.

purplepanda

Why can't locals at Manulla Junction board train services, is there any reason why this "station" only does passenger transfers? Seems a very strange setup!

Maybe IE should reopen Balla & pick up some local customers instead of Manulla, many of the locals actually go down to Claremmorris to catch the trains.

Losty Dublin

purplepanda wrote: »

Why can't locals at Manulla Junction board train services, is there any reason why this "station" only does passenger transfers? Seems a very strange setup!

Maybe IE should reopen Balla & pick up some local customers instead of Manulla, many of the locals actually go down to Claremmorris to catch the trains.

There isn't passenger access to Manulla station as it's purely used as a transfer station. To be honest it's as close for locals to go to Claremorris station as Manulla or a reopened Balla so there isn't any point in spending the cash on car parks, footbridges etc that it would need.

demanufactured

lxflyer wrote: »

Mini CTC starts there to Westport and Ballina.

Where is it controlled from?

Losty Dublin

demanufactured wrote: »

Where is it controlled from?

Athlone control centre.

purplepanda

Losty Dublin wrote: »

There isn't passenger access to Manulla station as it's purely used as a transfer station. To be honest it's as close for locals to go to Claremorris station as Manulla or a reopened Balla so there isn't any point in spending the cash on car parks, footbridges etc that it would need.

It's 12.8 & 8.4 miles from Manulla Station / Balla to Claremorris Station according to AA route. Manulla is too close to Castlebar to reopen & Balla has grown since the 70's but not by that much !!!

Still it seems very strange to have a functioning railway station that locals can't use at all.

Would they even notice a local getting on a train?

Losty Dublin

purplepanda wrote: »

Would they even notice a local getting on a train?

They'd probably not notice you crossing the tracks with 2 bits of luggage, no

Oscar Bravo

RE Manulla Junction. Up until a few months ago there was "access" to the platform via steps from the road down onto the track(this use to be for whoever was working in the cabin in the Junction ....back in the day) Per way have now tightly fenced off the steps,....ah it was handy for viewing timbers/liners coming off the branch onto the mainline!

Oscar Bravo

And with regards the Westport service its still very bad,ive never heard as much complaints even when IE had freezing cold MK2s etc etc,theres constant articles in the local papers/Radio....about.... Over crowding!! I think if the 22ks were bought as a 4 piece/8 piece instead of 3 and 6,there would be very few problems.

dowlingm

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

And with regards the Westport service its still very bad,ive never heard as much complaints even when IE had freezing cold MK2s etc etc,theres constant articles in the local papers/Radio....about.... Over crowding!! I think if the 22ks were bought as a 4 piece/8 piece instead of 3 and 6,there would be very few problems.

Trouble with stretching the 3 pieces is that the new IE "standard" for rural platforms appears to be 90m which a 4 piece would exceed when needed elsewhere. Better that 6 pieces be made routinely available for Westport diagrams and end the joining/splitting, even if it means a few Galway trains have to change to being shuttles to/from Athlone. Like Tralee and Sligo Mayo is one of the few areas left where the train looks attractive compared to the road alternatives.