Poaching

runawaybishop

Hi lads, apart from ringing the fisheries is there much you can do about people poaching on the river?
The last few days we have spotted a lot of it going on as we live close to the river. Should I keep my head down and let them handle it, or try to be visible to discourage it?

Zzippy

Save this number in your phone - 1890 34 74 24. Call it as soon as you see anything going on. If you can identify the perpetrators yourself and are comfortable with coming forward to give evidence in court, your statement and ID evidence can be used to prosecute offenders, even if fishery officers don't get there in time. But whatever you do, please make the call while its happening!

runawaybishop

Yup, i have the number of the local lads as well. They haven't been able to catch anyone in the act. The sods in question are rodding salmon and then throwing them into a car that comes to collect them - saw them 3 times this week alone.

hytrogen

A picture tells a thousand words so try nabbing a few photos too

runawaybishop

Pretty sure i saw the fisheries lads parked outside the poachers house as i drove past today, as yer man was sitting in his car watching them watching him. Hilarious stuff. Will be spending the weekend in the bushes if i can watching for them again.

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yup, i have the number of the local lads as well. They haven't been able to catch anyone in the act. The sods in question are rodding salmon and then throwing them into a car that comes to collect them - saw them 3 times this week alone.

What does rodding salmon mean ?

runawaybishop

Just using a rod to catch them - i.e fishing

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

Just using a rod to catch them - i.e fishing

I was thinking thats what you meant but is that still poaching. I always thought poachers used nets. Rodding to me would be fishing without a license

runawaybishop

That happens too. Guy without a permit/license maybe a month ago picked up a kelt also.

Haven't spotted the guy poaching so far this year though, maybe he's been warned off.

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

That happens too. Guy without a permit/license maybe a month ago picked up a kelt also.

Haven't spotted the guy poaching so far this year though, maybe he's been warned off.

Another thing, how can you tell if someone is poaching if they have a rod. Would you not need to ask them first for a license and permit.

runawaybishop

Post 3 explained it i thought. I've seen them nipping across the fields and chucking 3/4 fish into a car and then returning to fish - they are known to the fisheries lads also.

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

Post 3 explained it i thought. I've seen them nipping across the fields and chucking 3/4 fish into a car and then returning to fish - they are known to the fisheries lads also.

I still wouldnt class that as poaching, maybe just going over the limit your aloud. In saying all that, next time you should have a word with them and tell them you have your eye on them, i dont think theyll be back. What river would this be on anyway

runawaybishop

Nah, its poaching no two ways about it. They are known for it - just difficult to catch them in the act. Its on the Moy, down from the wood pool.

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

Nah, its poaching no two ways about it. They are known for it - just difficult to catch them in the act. Its on the Moy, down from the wood pool.

Its a tricky one because they prob do have a license/permit and if the fishery officers come, then they will be ok however when the fishery officers leave, they will be back to their old tricks and start dumping the salmon in the boot of a car. I think these men would be hard to catch and cant see fishery officers wasting their time trying to either.

runawaybishop

Father in law used to be a fisheries officer, they are always interested in hearing about this sort of stuff. We've had the lads from the fisheries down to us a few times now, nice bunch of people. What this guy was doing was poaching - illegally capturing fish without a license to capture those fish. You are correct though, its difficult to catch them in the act some times but often just being seen to be patrolling can be enough.

danbrosnan

I can't understand how this would be hard to catch in the act....

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

I can't understand how this would be hard to catch in the act....

They have to be caught in the act. So fishery officers would have to keep them under surveillance, wait until they catch a fish and put it in the car, before searching the car when they're sure there are untagged fish in it. Its all timing, and might take a long time to get it right, all the while hoping the offenders haven't spotted you. To be honest, it would be a big investment of time for little reward in the overall scheme of things, most fishery officers are too busy to be engaging in large-scale surveillance operations for a couple of untagged fish.

danbrosnan

Sorry don't agree with you zippy.... This should be done very easily and the people banned from the moy.... This is going on all over the country and if you think it's just a few untagged fish being killed then you are wrong.... Every river depending on size and catchment has hundreds and even thousands of fish killed every year without being tagged....

tootsy70

danbrosnan wrote: »

Sorry don't agree with you zippy.... This should be done very easily and the people banned from the moy.... This is going on all over the country and if you think it's just a few untagged fish being killed then you are wrong.... Every river depending on size and catchment has hundreds and even thousands of fish killed every year without being tagged....

I dont think legally you could ban any person from the moy. Yes you might be able to take their gear of them if they havent got a license but to actually ban them from the moy would be impossible. I agree that some measure should be brought in to try and stop this but i cant see it in the near future, esp as were in these bad times fishery officers just dont have the time or money to start patrolling the moy daily just to try and catch a few poachers. The figers just wouldnt add up. As for poaching anyway, it wouldnt be widespread as people suggest. In all my years fishing ive never once seen anyone poaching ever and ive fished a fair amount of rivers in my time. Ive yet to ever hear of anyone i know seen a poacher in all their years also.

runawaybishop

danbrosnan wrote: »

I can't understand how this would be hard to catch in the act....

They have to be caught literally in the act of committing the offense. Even if they are found with a pile of fish beside them untagged they can just claim they are not theirs.

tootsy70 wrote: »

In all my years fishing ive never once seen anyone poaching ever and ive fished a fair amount of rivers in my time. Ive yet to ever hear of anyone i know seen a poacher in all their years also.

I live right beside the river, I've seen plenty

tootsy70

Zzippy wrote: »

They have to be caught in the act. So fishery officers would have to keep them under surveillance, wait until they catch a fish and put it in the car, before searching the car when they're sure there are untagged fish in it. Its all timing, and might take a long time to get it right, all the while hoping the offenders haven't spotted you. To be honest, it would be a big investment of time for little reward in the overall scheme of things, most fishery officers are too busy to be engaging in large-scale surveillance operations for a couple of untagged fish.

Do fishery officers even have the right to search ones car looking for fish. I always thought they had to call the guards to do the search. What would happen to poachers anyway, say they had no license, a few untagged fish in the car with all their fishing gear or maybe even a net or 2.

runawaybishop

tootsy70 wrote: »

Do fishery officers even have the right to search ones car looking for fish. I always thought they had to call the guards to do the search. What would happen to poachers anyway, say they had no license, a few untagged fish in the car with all their fishing gear or maybe even a net or 2.

They can stop and search, and enter premises. Equipment can be seized and the fine is 6k or 3 months - something like that.

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

They have to be caught literally in the act of committing the offense. Even if they are found with a pile of fish beside them untagged they can just claim they are not theirs.


I live right beside the river, I've seen plenty

O i dont doubt you, its just ive never seen or heard of any, only read about one or 2 cases over the years in the paper or on the net.

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

They can stop and search, and enter premises. Equipment can be seized and the fine is 6k or 3 months - something like that.

When you say enter premises, do you also mean enter someones home ? if so, i couldnt see it. 6k fine or 3 month sin jail, i think if i were a poacher id just buy a license lol

Bizzum

Here are some general powers of a Fisheries Officer (Authorised Officer)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1959/en/act/pub/0014/sec0301.html

runawaybishop

tootsy70 wrote: »

When you say enter premises, do you also mean enter someones home ? if so, i couldnt see it. 6k fine or 3 month sin jail, i think if i were a poacher id just buy a license lol

Yes, they can enter a house. It could be 3k fine and 6 months - it used to be 10 pounds, then 1k.

Zzippy

tootsy70 wrote: »

Do fishery officers even have the right to search ones car looking for fish. I always thought they had to call the guards to do the search. What would happen to poachers anyway, say they had no license, a few untagged fish in the car with all their fishing gear or maybe even a net or 2.

Yes, they have the right to search persons, belongings, and vehicles. They can also search commercial premises without a search warrant.
For no licence/untagged fish it would probably be an on-the-spot fine. For a net it would be a prosecution in court.

runawaybishop

Zzippy wrote: »

Yes, they have the right to search persons, belongings, and vehicles. They can also search commercial premises without a search warrant.
For no licence/untagged fish it would probably be an on-the-spot fine. For a net it would be a prosecution in court.

This sounds more accurate than what i can remember - they can enter a premises where fish are being stored or for sale, i think i am incorrect about entering a private residence. They can search a car though. They can also apprehend and detain until the gardai arrive.

Bizzum

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, they can enter a house.

Only under the issuing of a search warrant.

runawaybishop

Bizzum wrote: »

Only under the issuing of a search warrent.

Yar, i corrected myself above I was misremembering the section that sates they cant enter a house, but can enter a business.

tootsy70

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, they can enter a house. It could be 3k fine and 6 months - it used to be 10 pounds, then 1k.

What could they possibly achieve by searching ones home. Even if they found a room full of net and a freezer full of salmon, i dont think it could stand up in court because the offender could easily say the salmon was bought in tescos and its not illegal to own nets.

runawaybishop

I was wrong about the private residence!

Bizzum

tootsy70 wrote: »

What could they possibly achieve by searching ones home. Even if they found a room full of net and a freezer full of salmon, i dont think it could stand up in court because the offender could easily say the salmon was bought in tescos and its not illegal to own nets.

It's easy to scientifically prove the difference between a wild and farmed Salmon.
There have been sucessful cases taken as a result of the searching (under warrant) of houses.

Bizzum

runawaybishop wrote: »

I was wrong about the private residence!

You're not strictly wrong. Under a search warrant, a private residence can be searched.
It's a bit cumbersome, but possible none the less!

tootsy70

Bizzum wrote: »

You're not strictly wrong. Under a search warrent, a private residence can be searched.
It's a bit cumbersome, but possible none the less!

I agree that if a know poacher has fish,nets etc stored in his home that it should be searched but i cant see any judge in the country prosecuting even if the fish were tested and proved to be fresh. Is it even possible to buy fresh fish in this country ?

Bizzum

tootsy70 wrote: »

even if the fish were tested and proved to be fresh. Is it even possible to buy fresh fish in this country ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "fresh" in this case. Any fish you buy should be fresh.
Maybe you mean wild fish?
In certain catchments you can indeed be in possession of a wild tagged fish, but not an untagged fish.

Park Royal

Perhaps if you advised the Fishery owners....?

runawaybishop

Already advised, as well as local club, local residents and fisheries officers.

Park Royal

runawaybishop wrote: »

Already advised, as well as local club, local residents and fisheries officers.

Not much else to be done so......just keep the fishery officers discretely

advised......and local club officers.....dont lose sleep as its nothing new....

vexing for sure.....but when you consider what the Regulator , Banks , FF did

to this country , I'd chill out and leave it to those responsible for the fishery

and the fishery officers.....your information is hugely valuable , but I would

recommend being discreet at all times .....

tootsy70

Park Royal wrote: »

Not much else to be done so......just keep the fishery officers discretely

advised......and local club officers.....dont lose sleep as its nothing new....

vexing for sure.....but when you consider what the Regulator , Banks , FF did

to this country , I'd chill out and leave it to those responsible for the fishery

and the fishery officers.....your information is hugely valuable , but I would

recommend being discreet at all times .....

as the old saying goes "plenty more fish in the sea" lol

danbrosnan

People on here been flippant about a few untagged fish and never seen or known of poaching must be like horses with blinkers...

Every bay and estuary that holds salmon migrating stocks is been netted, down ere in kerry they are anyway....

Salmon stocks are at an all time low, rivers that used to hold salmon are now at a crucial stage.... The moy might not be in the same state because it gets all the investment from the inland fishery board..... What about the hundreds of spate rivers and lochs that hold sea trout and salmon all along the west coast, that have been forgotten about...

And all I hear is excuses about recession and man hours and can't do this and can't do that... You can do anything within your right.... I hate small minded, fearful ways of thinking, people saying hush, hush, you can't be saying that, hiding behind false names on Internet boards, any body that wants to come to Tralee during the month of august may come down and I,ll show you poaching on a massive scale....

If people think people are poaching in board daylight, and just because they don't see poachers that its not going on, the same people would look at a sandbag on the beach and wonder how it got there....

danbrosnan

Here's a video of what my family had to go through all because of poaching, and they said back then that it wasn't going on either....

Hundreds of convictions and my father was given the sack, fishery warrant taken off him, and his then manager told him that he would have a job for life if he would take it easy.... Stop causing so much trouble, prosecuting people for netting wild Atlantic salmon.... Ireland's greatest commodity...

danbrosnan

tootsy70 wrote: »

as the old saying goes "plenty more fish in the sea" lol

If you are an angler you would know there is not plenty more fish in the sea....

tootsy70

danbrosnan wrote: »

People on here been flippant about a few untagged fish and never seen or known of poaching must be like horses with blinkers...

Every bay and estuary that holds salmon migrating stocks is been netted, down ere in kerry they are anyway....

Salmon stocks are at an all time low, rivers that used to hold salmon are now at a crucial stage.... The moy might not be in the same state because it gets all the investment from the inland fishery board..... What about the hundreds of spate rivers and lochs that hold sea trout and salmon all along the west coast, that have been forgotten about...

And all I hear is excuses about recession and man hours and can't do this and can't do that... You can do anything within your right.... I hate small minded, fearful ways of thinking, people saying hush, hush, you can't be saying that, hiding behind false names on Internet boards, any body that wants to come to Tralee during the month of august may come down and I,ll show you poaching on a massive scale....

If people think people are poaching in board daylight, and just because they don't see poachers that its not going on, the same people would look at a sandbag on the beach and wonder how it got there....

Im not sticking up for poachers here but i would think it was the drift netters who caused the decline in salmon on this island, not the poachers! I remember reading they took something like 100000 salmon of the west coast each year and thats the only the ones that were counted. They destroyed the place!

tootsy70

Bizzum wrote: »

Here are some general powers of a Fisheries Officer (Authorised Officer)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1959/en/act/pub/0014/sec0301.html

Wonder where this would fall in the eyes of the law.

Bizzum

tootsy70 wrote: »

Wonder where this would fall in the eyes of the law.

In Ireland bye law 595 of 1977 would be applicable.
I'm sure you know that though.

demanufactured

Poaching happened everywhere.
There's a group of foreign nationals netting the Shannon every week upstream from Shannonbridge jn a small dinghy .
IFI know about it but haven't been able to catch them at it yet.
I hope they dont accidently grt knocked out of their dinghy by a passing boat.