Where do you stand on legalising assisted death?

GastroBoy

It's a topic that's gaining some momentum in the UK.
With recent documentaries by Terry Pratchett and also the doc, "let my dad die" which documented Tony Nicklinson's case.

I can see it a lot of of support for it over there.

Personally, I feel it's time has come, it is an act of compassion and means for a patient with an incurable disease to have dignified exit.

Please note; I'm not talking about assisted suicide!!! That is completely illegal

Can you you see a time when Ireland would introduce this law?

chin_grin

GastroBoy wrote: »

Please note; I'm not talking about assisted suicide!!! That is completely illegal

Wait, forgive my ignorance but I thought it was the same thing?

Personally yeah. I don't want to be an old idiot complaining about the youth today and not being able to do the easiest of physical tasks without taking hours to do so. (Driving/walking/other things-ing).

shopaholic01

I'm all for it, assisted suicide too. Why be left lingering in misery or pain and waiting to die?

GastroBoy

chin_grin wrote: »

Wait, forgive my ignorance but I thought it was the same thing?

Just covering my ass there, assisted suicide as in just helping someone out without proper legal consent = illegal

charlietheminxx

I would like to see it introduced but I don't think it'll happen in the near future in Ireland.

I mean, just look at how long it's taking them to legislate on abortion. I know it's a different subject, but Ireland tends to put these things on the long finger.

gaffer91

Think it should be allowed. I don't think doctors should be allowed kill the person but they could supply the person with the means to do it themselves.

Of course there would be some suicidal people who would be paralysed or whatever, something would have to be done to accommodate them.

I do think that people should have to have extensive counselling beforehand because many suicidal people suffer from mental illnesses which are usually treatable.

Chips Ahoy

I stand in the corner.

Shryke

Is abortion even legal yet? Ireland is more backward than some would like to admit.

CL7

GastroBoy wrote: »

Just covering my ass there, assisted suicide as in just helping someone out without proper legal consent = illegal

Covering your ass? It isn't illegal to talk about it. I'm in favour of legalising assisted suicide.

Nothingbetter2d

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I'm all for it, assisted suicide too. Why be left lingering in misery or pain and waiting to die?

yup if i have a stroke or brain aneurysm, terminal uncurable cancer or an accident that will leave me paralysed put the pillow over my head and finish me off.

Shryke

CL7 wrote: »

GastroBoy wrote: »

Just covering my ass there, assisted suicide as in just helping someone out without proper legal consent = illegal

Covering your ass? It isn't illegal to talk about it. I'm in favour of legalising assisted suicide.

I imagine he doesn't want the thread derailed by people splitting hairs, which is what you're doing.

GastroBoy

Shryke wrote: »

I imagine he doesn't want the thread derailed by people splitting hairs, which is what you're doing.

Thank you.

tricky D

I'm currently dealing with what are very very likely the last days of my father. There's little doubt he has a very short while left. Last Wednesday night I was contemplating never bringing him to Beaumont again only to do exactly that 12 hours later as he was too weak to move at all. It's a cruel situation that's been going on for ages now, when ideally having him pass away sitting in the garden he loves, looking out over the Irish sea would be the best way to go. But you can't do that no matter that there's no more quality of life left. So instead, we have to watch him go through the cruelty, misery, pain when he just wants to finish with some dignity at home with the people who love him around. To have a means to legally facilitate this, like some end of life pill, would be manna from heaven (for want of a better phrase).

Duggy747

All for it.

When my grandmother was diagnosed with alzheimer's my parents took her into our house.

She dwindled away to nothing as she rapidly got worse during the years. She was a big lady but by the time she died she was a skeleton and her brain was gloop; lights were on but nobody was home.

The mother her kid's knew died along time before her body did.

That's no way to end your life.

grey_so_what

tricky D wrote: »

I'm currently dealing with what are very very likely the last days of my father. There's little doubt he has a very short while left. Last Wednesday night I was contemplating never bringing him to Beaumont again only to do exactly that 12 hours later as he was too weak to move at all. It's a cruel situation that's been going on for ages now, when ideally having him pass away sitting in the garden he loves, looking out over the Irish sea would be the best way to go. But you can't do that no matter that there's no more quality of life left. So instead, we have to watch him go through the cruelty, misery, pain when he just wants to finish with some dignity at home with the people who love him around. To have a means to legally facilitate this, like some end of life pill, would be manna from heaven (for want of a better phrase).

My heart goes out to you tricky D.

Agree completely.

Thinking of you and your family.

GSW

CL7

Shryke wrote: »

I imagine he doesn't want the thread derailed by people splitting hairs, which is what you're doing.

I wasn't my intention. I can be a literal thinker at times. Anyway back on topic:


If someone is suffering and they want to end their life I don't see why the state or anyone else should have a say in the matter.

GastroBoy

tricky D wrote: »

I'm currently dealing with what are very very likely the last days of my father. There's little doubt he has a very short while left. Last Wednesday night I was contemplating never bringing him to Beaumont again only to do exactly that 12 hours later as he was too weak to move at all. It's a cruel situation that's been going on for ages now, when ideally having him pass away sitting in the garden he loves, looking out over the Irish sea would be the best way to go. But you can't do that no matter that there's no more quality of life left. So instead, we have to watch him go through the cruelty, misery, pain when he just wants to finish with some dignity at home with the people who love him around. To have a means to legally facilitate this, like some end of life pill, would be manna from heaven (for want of a better phrase).

I feel bad for you tricky
An awful situation, for all involved.

Stiffler2

I think it should be allowed, however we still live in a backwards country where even abortion is not allowed so assisted death is deffo out the window for at least another century here.

I belive you can get it done in holland tho.

Splendour

GastroBoy wrote: »

I can see it a lot of of support for it over there.

I think in a country where abortion is legal they will have no choice but to legislate for assisted death/suicide.

shopaholic01

tricky D wrote: »

I'm currently dealing with what are very very likely the last days of my father. There's little doubt he has a very short while left. Last Wednesday night I was contemplating never bringing him to Beaumont again only to do exactly that 12 hours later as he was too weak to move at all. It's a cruel situation that's been going on for ages now, when ideally having him pass away sitting in the garden he loves, looking out over the Irish sea would be the best way to go. But you can't do that no matter that there's no more quality of life left. So instead, we have to watch him go through the cruelty, misery, pain when he just wants to finish with some dignity at home with the people who love him around. To have a means to legally facilitate this, like some end of life pill, would be manna from heaven (for want of a better phrase).

Duggy747 wrote: »

All for it.

When my grandmother was diagnosed with alzheimer's my parents took her into our house.

She dwindled away to nothing as she rapidly got worse during the years. She was a big lady but by the time she died she was a skeleton and her brain was gloop; lights were on but nobody was home.

The mother her kid's knew died along time before her body did.

That's no way to end your life.

It's devastating watching someone you love disappear bit by bit. It must be difficult to post this too.

tricky D, I hope your dad finds peace soon, he is lucky to have his family around him.

Duggy747 - alzheimers is one of my worst fears - frightening for the patient in the early stages and heart breaking to watch the gradual decline and loss of the person, while the body continues functioning.

spatchco

think the only chance i have is that the living will,which i think is being talked about might some day give my self and other people the chance to make up there own minds .

token56

As far as I'm concerned, just as a person has a right to live in a peaceful and dignified manner a person should also have the right to die in a peaceful and dignified manner where possible. There should be an alternative option to having a person and their family suffer as they slowly fade away if they so choose. Legislation obviously needs to change for this and it absolutely should.

If an animal is sick or has little chance of a full life, we put them to sleep. Why can't human beings be given the same right?

GastroBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

If an animal is sick or has little chance of a full life, we put them to sleep. Why can't human beings be given the same right?

While I agree with you to a certain extent, that's not a right that an animal has. That is a decision made for them.

Humans should be given the choice, and right, to end their own life only IMO.

If they can make it clear themselves that it is their choice, and not effected by other people's input, then they should be assisted.

Sarah_12

I agree with it completely. I spent many years studying to be a nurse, although I found this was not my preferred career I saw people suffering everyday. Towards the end of life many people lose all enjoyment because they are suffering and in pain. I don't see why in this case it isn't legal. It should be a person's own choice and possibly in people who become mentally ill and cannot make that choice they could outline it in their will earlier in their lives, what they would want if this were to happen to them. I don' understand people being kept alive when they are suffering or also when they have no desire to be alive.

Many people go through their lives unhappy and miserable. Some lucky people can recover from mental illness or at least control it but others cant and never will. I really believe it should be a person's own choice whether they live or die once they can make a rational thought out decision about it!

cartell_best

Everyone has the right to decide their destiny. We all have the ultimate choice on to who or what holds the final decision. We probably all know someone that took their own lives and we either knew nothing or knew something but it never registered with us. I've seen a few people pass away and all I could do was stand back and watch. But some I stood back and watched, not knowing what was unfolding before my eyes.

We all have a choice. When it comes to dying and doing so and especially when it is within the limits of being "legal", I would not stand back and watch and continue to do so for someone that it hurts soo much for them to continue. Unfortunately, I cannot stand here and begin do differentiate between physical and mental pain, because everyone experiences pain in a much different way than each other. I do realise now that mental pain holds a par with physical pain....Nobody deserves to suffer and continue to do so because "man" made rules state who has a right to continue in pain or die in peace.

Brendog

I'm completely for it. If a person is terminally ill and would rather end their life than have to suffer and expire anyway, they should be allowed.

Pushtrak

Surprised how no one has voiced up against it. Sorry to disappoint but I'm not going to buck the trend. Think it should be the right of an individual to decide they want to give up existence.

Gurgle

Pushtrak wrote: »

Surprised how no one has voiced up against it.

I was just thinking that, in AH even if nobody was against it you'd expect someone to come in playing Devil's advocate.

Jame Gumb

What if a cure for the relevant disease or condition is subsequently discovered?

Trivial aside, but didn't this happen to Dr McCoy and his father in one of the later Star Trek movies (Bones helped his father to die and a cure was discovered shortly after).

GastroBoy

Gurgle wrote: »

I was just thinking that, in AH even if nobody was against it you'd expect someone to come in playing Devil's advocate.

Too right, didn't think it would be unanimously in favour...

Odysseus

After nursing my own Dad through the last few months of his life the comes a time when it needs to be done. As far as I'm concerned the Hospice help my Dad move on, after spending a night with him crying on my shoulder due to the pain he was in no matter how much morphine I gave him, I have no problem with it.

shopaholic01

Pushtrak wrote: »

Surprised how no one has voiced up against it. Sorry to disappoint but I'm not going to buck the trend. Think it should be the right of an individual to decide they want to give up existence.

Obviously there would have to be an expressed wish from the patient in the form of a living will before it was allowed. Otherwise it would be unethical and open to abuse.

Jame Gumb wrote: »

What if a cure for the relevant disease or condition is subsequently discovered?

Trivial aside, but didn't this happen to Dr McCoy and his father in one of the later Star Trek movies (Bones helped his father to die and a cure was discovered shortly after).

It takes years of clinical trials before medication is approved for use, so that situation is highly unlikely.

It's also worth mentioning that in some cases families are given the option to place a 'do not resuscitate' order on a loved one - this is effectively making a life or death decision on behalf of someone else.

A_Sober_Paddy

I think anyone who wants to die should be allowed, I'm mainly referring to people who suffer from long term illness and sickness.

Nothingbetter2d

i saw my grandfather's health deteriorate really fast having had 3 strokes about a month apart.

i'll never forget the day i drove him in to hospital when he was having the first stroke... the doctor handed him a pill and told him to swallow it... my grandfather looked at me and started to cry cos he couldn't swallow it and he knew it.... like ALL but 1 of his siblings who had strokes and died later, (the other sibling died from MS after 30 years of lying in a nursing home bed paralyzed from the neck down), he knew his time had run out. he lost his speech, being able to swallow, and the use of his right arm and needed a feeding tube inserted to his stomach. To help him with communication i gave him my old laptop and set it up for disability mode. he would type with his good hand when he wanted something. Not ideal but at least it made him feel human again.

a few weeks later he had the second stroke and lost the use of his left leg, and required nappies and was transferred to a nursing home. the 3rd stroke happened about a month after that and he just gave up completely and let go. RIP Grandad.

I'm glad he went relatively quickly... his suffering was not as long as what some of the other posters have spoke about but i would hate to find myself in my grandad's position.

It was really only my granny, my parents, 1 aunt, and myself that he had to rely on cos the rest of my mum's siblings are chronic alcoholics incapable of looking after themselves. That said i would hate to be a burden on my family like that. They would look after me out of love but its a tough ask and not very fair on them.

Jame Gumb

[Quote=shopaholic01;79438795

Jame Gumb wrote: »

What if a cure for the relevant disease or condition is subsequently discovered?

Trivial aside, but didn't this happen to Dr McCoy and his father in one of the later Star Trek movies (Bones helped his father to die and a cure was discovered shortly after).

It takes years of clinical trials before medication is approved for use, so that situation is highly unlikely[/Quote]

How do patients / family not know that a cure isn't about to be approved then?

Ultimately I think that the decision should rest with the compos mentis patient.

Tricky area though.

shopaholic01

Jame Gumb wrote: »

How do patients / family not know that a cure isn't about to be approved then?

Ultimately I think that the decision should rest with the compos mentis patient.

Tricky area though.

Prior to being made publically available, medication is tested on patients who are deemed to be terminally ill (after initial tests on animals etc.). A patent would also be applied for it to prevent other pharmaceutical companies copying it.

Medical staff will be aware of this, in a lot of cases it will also be widely covered in the media.

So if a new cure is going to be launched it will not come as a surprise, it will be widely anticipated.

steddyeddy

Well for all my complaints about the way we treat animals in this case animals are treated more humanly than humans. We can put down a horse or any pet because its humane. I dont see why we dont extend the human animal the same mercy.

Odysseus

Deleted User wrote: »

If an animal is sick or has little chance of a full life, we put them to sleep. Why can't human beings be given the same right?

Yeah I remember the second last night I was on the phone to the hospice every 45 mins to get permission to give him more morphine. We also had MST morphine tabs, due to my work I know a lot about these. They used to be very popular with addicts.

Anyway I was pissed off pumping him full of his liquid morphine, I took out two spoons and basically got the tabs into an injectable state. Checked his veins etc, then came the fear, he was that sick I would have left a bruise at the injection site, would I get pulled on it? what if I gave him too much and it killed him, though I reckon I had the dose needed just to stop his pain.

Anyway I bottled it and said I would ring the hospice again and seek permission to give him more liquid morphine, they said go ahead. I then say fcuk it if that doesn't work I'm giving him the injection IV. Thankfully after 20mins it eventually working and I emptied the iv morphine into the sink.

Really not just for me, but people should not have to experience that, never mind what my dad was experiencing.

The comes a stage when people need to be allow to go with their dignity, or as much of it as possible

GastroBoy

Out of interest, I added a poll to this thread.

The Master of Disaster

Everybody should have the right to do what they want with their life, including ending it. Simple as.

LylaElise

I'm for it. The way I see it if I knew an exact day I was going to pass I could wake up and do all the small little things I enjoy about life one last time. Eat my favourite meal, listen to my fav songs, talk to my loved ones and say everything I want to say and then leave this world with some peace of mind. I think it would be easier in a way for a persons loved one also. I know one of the hardest things about losing someone is the feeling that the person was cruelly snatched away, had no say and what kind of fear must have they been feeling before they took their last few breaths. It's never easy losing someone you love but just knowing that they had complete control over the situation and were at peace with it, well there is a bit of comfort in that.


We may not have control over how we enter this world but we should have control over how we leave it. Last final swan song and all that.

shopaholic01

Odysseus, being so involved in your father's care must have been a harrowing experience. It's difficult enough to watch someone you love die, but to assume so much responsibility for their care must have been heartbreaking.

I'm sure it was a great comfort to your father though, I always imagine dying to be a lonely experience (if that makes sense?), so I'm sure you helped your father more than you will ever appreciate.

Odysseus

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Odysseus, being so involved in your father's care must have been a harrowing experience. It's difficult enough to watch someone you love die, but to assume so much responsibility for their care must have been heartbreaking.

I'm sure it was a great comfort to your father though, I always imagine dying to be a lonely experience (if that makes sense?), so I'm sure you helped your father more than you will ever appreciate.

Cheers, but it was in a way a pleasure to do it, I know a lot about meds and stuff so I was giving him daily injections, he reckoned the public health nurses hurt him ; whereas I didn't.

It was a big learning experience, I was giving him daily injections, he perfered that than the public health murses. TBF my whole family where involved. The hardest thing for me was to see a strong willed individual become helpless and afaird, that and watch him in pain knowing like me he had a very strong tolerance to pain.

Now my whole family help in other ways, it was a powerful experience taking his pluse as his heart pumped the last few times and the mixed emotions that followed. However, I'm really glad I got to be with him in his last few months/weeks/ days etc.

We had him home for the last 3 months, I really don't know how much more we could have gone on for. We worked well but the cracks where starting to show, it nearly turned into a physical fight between me and my brother two day before he died as he wanted him in hospital, and I know my dad was down to days.

I have seen a lot of death in my time, a large amount of my child hood mates are death, I lose client in work regularily, I'm sure this help a bit. Making sure he got good pain relife was a problem, I remember telling the hospice that if they don't sort I work get him some heroin and when they discover I was serious, would do and knew how to do, it moved things on quickly.

Anyway I may not be making sense now so I'll leave it there. Nothing special in my experience in that there are people out there today going through it. It was of course special to me.

Cheers

Edit: after the last night, I had a looked at the amiunt of meds put into I forget the name for that auto injection box, the hospice assisted my daeth on his way out. That is my beliefe and me a a hospice worker discussed it, and I thank her. I believe it happens but cannot be acknowledged.

mongdesade

A 'Compus Mentus' adult who is suffering, SHOULD have the legal right to end their life in a dignified manner...my 2 cents

Carter P Fly

I think the final decision should be signed off by a doctor but the option should be there as there comes a time when there is NO options other then living a tortured existance or putting a dignified end to it all.

FWIW grandfather died of Althzimers, I strongly suspect my ma has it and therefore Its a real fear for me and my siblings. fcuk going out like that, If Breaking bad has thaught me anything its a stash of ricin is your best friend.

christmas2012

i voted yes btw - i think if someone is dying an agonising death from cancer or hiv they should be able to go for this procedure,or if they are paralysed and dont see the point in living a life where you have no physical independence..

GastroBoy

christmas2012 wrote: »

i voted yes btw - i think if someone is dying an agonising death from cancer or hiv they should be able to go for this procedure,or if they are paralysed and dont see the point in living a life where you have no physical independence..

Agreed. Poll seems pretty much decided then...

saiint

if you pull the plug on a family member in a coma
its basicly the same thing as assisting them isn it?
pro death+

prinz

Carter P Fly wrote: »

..or putting a dignified end to it all..

Odysseus wrote: »

The comes a stage when people need to be allow to go with their dignity, or as much of it as possible

Just because someone may have died slower, or with more pain, does not mean they had any less dignity as a human being, or that their eventual demise was any less dignified. That nonsense is one thing that really pisses me off and I find it offensive tbh, that the only dignified death is quick, painless, and 'clean' so to speak. It isn't.

mongdesade wrote: »

A 'Compus Mentus' adult who is suffering, SHOULD have the legal right to end their life in a dignified manner...my 2 cents

The question there would be is a patient suffering really compos mentis while they are in pain/suffering? Then if they make wishes known prior to becoming unable to communicate for example what if they change their mind?

Lollipops23

My granny passed away at the ripe old age of 91 last month. In her last year she had no idea where she was, although she seemed perfectly happy. Her health declined badly too. While I'm so grateful she stayed happy throughout, if she'd been scared or distressed it would have been just horrible, both for her and for all of us.

My dad has repeatedly asked me to ensure he goes out the other way if he gets addled in his old age. He's completely serious.