Getting into Photography

ElizabethM

Hello,
I'm 15 years old and I'll be going into 5th year this September. I've been thinking about the future as I'm getting closer and closer to leaving school. I want to do something in photography. I was just wondering if there are any photographers out there who could answer a few questions for me! Thank you in advance.

1. Where did you go to college? (if you went to college) and what kind of things did you do

2. How did you find work in photography?

3. What kind of things are there out there for photographers to do?


Thank you,
Pamela

EyeBlinks

Hi Pamela,

Welcome on here.

I'm probably not the right person to answer your queries tbh.

1. I never went to photography college. As I'm now the inverse of your age ( and a bit) that's a regret I suppose. All things being equal, I'd still go, but like anything you need to be focused on what you want from it. There are loads of options now to suit you rather than mainstream. If you're focused. definitely the right option.

2. I haven't, nor have I tried. I have a decent job. Having said that starting out, it's hard but not impossible. Like everything creating your own niche/perspective is important. You're the driver though !

3. The world's you Lobster as they say. Lots of negative vibes out there. but I'd be more than positive if you have a bit of "vision".

At 15 you're asking at exactly the right time. Suss it all out before you need to decide next year, maybe right for you, maybe not.

T.

ElizabethM

EyeBlinks wrote: »

Hi Pamela,

Welcome on here.

I'm probably not the right person to answer your queries tbh.

1. I never went to photography college. As I'm now the inverse of your age ( and a bit) that's a regret I suppose. All things being equal, I'd still go, but like anything you need to be focused on what you want from it. There are loads of options now to suit you rather than mainstream. If you're focused. definitely the right option.

2. I haven't, nor have I tried. I have a decent job. Having said that starting out, it's hard but not impossible. Like everything creating your own niche/perspective is important. You're the driver though !

3. The world's you Lobster as they say. Lots of negative vibes out there. but I'd be more than positive if you have a bit of "vision".

At 15 you're asking at exactly the right time. Suss it all out before you need to decide next year, maybe right for you, maybe not.

T.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. That's what I'm trying to do, just want to get some ideas from real people..rather than reading things online. Thank you, I'll take everything you said into consideration.

EyeBlinks

What attracts you to Photography as a way of life?

pete4130

Going to College to study is good for the basis it gives you, the understanding of the artistic side of it and it should teach you how to "see" and articulate a narrative through your images.

Studying photography isn't necessary or guarantees you work. It is good for making contacts, networking. Again this is all down to how much you want to chase that dream and how much effort you put in. I know several people who have done their studies in DIT or IADT who come out with a degree and never work in photography or they rarely take a picture again (I'd even argue to say that some of them, after 4 years still aren't capable of taking a good photo but thats not the point).

At 15 you have a few years head start. You need to get a camera and just start shooting with it, as much as possible, trying as many different things as possible. If something doesn't work out how you wanted it to, make the time to find out and understand why so you can give it another go to get it right.
Photography is simple science (the relationship between light, aperture, shutter speed & ISO all directly relate to each other). Once you have an understanding of this, everything clicks into place.

By shooting so much you'll soon develop a feeling of what you like to shoot or how you like to shoot. It's also easy early on to fall into the pitfall of shooting very similar things because you find it easy. If you find yourself shooting effectively the same image over and over again, thats when you go in a new direction and explore something new.

As much as I don't like to say this...photography magazines are a good way to learn new skills and get familiar with shooting in different ways and getting to grips with using software and techniques in Photoshop or Lightroom etc. Most of the tutorials in the magazines are very useful and give you a good basis to start from. They are also bad in the sense that they have a very fixated and formulated view on what makes a good image (straight horizons, everything sharp etc...) so don't let yourself be restricted by them either.

With regards to work. It can be a lot of effort. You have to be confident enough in yourself to approach people to assist them to gain more confidence. This could be approaching some small papers to do work experience, get in contact with some wedding photographers, some studios or even get along to some live music shows to shoot and see if you can get your images used. The chances are you probably won't get paid initially but thats a whole different aspect of getting started.
You might find that you like shooting fashion and/or portraits and organise your friends to sit for some shoots with you and try to be creative that way and add to your portfolio that way.

The most important thing to remember is to enjoy taking the pictures you enjoy taking. It's a constant learning curve, even for people shooting 20-30 years.

When I first applied to get into DIT and IADT years and years ago I wasn't accepted. It was tough to deal with when I had my heart set on it. It didn't stop me though and only encouraged me more and more. The following year I reapplied and got the maximum points from both DIT and IADT but didn't take it. The year off I had put me in a new direction with my photography so I waited another year and reapplied. Again I got max points from both college but I was happy with where I was going and what I was doing and felt starting fresh back at 1st year in college would have been a step back for me at the time. After my 3rd year of reapplying and getting accepted I realised studying photography formally wasn't where I wanted to go.

It's more important to be a photographer than a photography student in my view.

melekalikimaka

I studied photography in college, I dont work in photography, but I do an awful lot on the side, I decided to go down a different route when i finished college given the economy, but I am leaving photography on the back burner til I'm confident I can live off it comfortaby

lisatiffany

Hi Pamela

1. Where did you go to college? film school in the UK/Russia and the new york film academy. I worked in film long enough to apply my camera and tech knowledge to photography. I'd been taking photos and recording video since I was about 13yrs old so it wasn't hard to concentrate more effort on photography and not film.

2. How did you find work in photography? From working on film/TV/music business I quickly collected enough contacts to be asked to work on shoots and events. I do paid shoots as well as shooting for myself (enjoying what I do is half the attraction to it) but I'm not depending on it to pay the bills, luckily I have some other things that do that. It's certainly possible to make a career out of it but it definitely takes persistence, for instance I know many people who miss out on opportunities because of travel. I'm doing 5 shoots over the next week scattered all over and outside of Dublin and one of the most important things for me is to make sure I can get to each one. I'm meeting someone in about an hour to catch some evening shots and travel wise its about an hours drive, its those little things I'd mention now because getting to an opportunity is sometimes one of those things people forget about.

3. What kind of things are there out there for photographers to do? Well that really depends on the type of photography you want to get into, my advice would be to try different types from landscape to portraits and just take it from there as someone already said the world is your oyster.

I'm running out the door soon but if I think of anything else I'll be sure to add it - Lisa

ElizabethM

EyeBlinks wrote: »

What attracts you to Photography as a way of life?

I've always enjoyed taking pictures and I really can't imagine myself doing much else. I'm just not sure I should jump straight in, as I'm not too sure what to do. All I know is that I enjoy it, just not sure how I could make a living out of it. Maybe I'll do something else, with photography on the side. I'm not sure.

ElizabethM

pete4130 wrote: »

Going to College to study is good for the basis it gives you, the understanding of the artistic side of it and it should teach you how to "see" and articulate a narrative through your images.

Studying photography isn't necessary or guarantees you work. It is good for making contacts, networking. Again this is all down to how much you want to chase that dream and how much effort you put in. I know several people who have done their studies in DIT or IADT who come out with a degree and never work in photography or they rarely take a picture again (I'd even argue to say that some of them, after 4 years still aren't capable of taking a good photo but thats not the point).

At 15 you have a few years head start. You need to get a camera and just start shooting with it, as much as possible, trying as many different things as possible. If something doesn't work out how you wanted it to, make the time to find out and understand why so you can give it another go to get it right.
Photography is simple science (the relationship between light, aperture, shutter speed & ISO all directly relate to each other). Once you have an understanding of this, everything clicks into place.

By shooting so much you'll soon develop a feeling of what you like to shoot or how you like to shoot. It's also easy early on to fall into the pitfall of shooting very similar things because you find it easy. If you find yourself shooting effectively the same image over and over again, thats when you go in a new direction and explore something new.

As much as I don't like to say this...photography magazines are a good way to learn new skills and get familiar with shooting in different ways and getting to grips with using software and techniques in Photoshop or Lightroom etc. Most of the tutorials in the magazines are very useful and give you a good basis to start from. They are also bad in the sense that they have a very fixated and formulated view on what makes a good image (straight horizons, everything sharp etc...) so don't let yourself be restricted by them either.

With regards to work. It can be a lot of effort. You have to be confident enough in yourself to approach people to assist them to gain more confidence. This could be approaching some small papers to do work experience, get in contact with some wedding photographers, some studios or even get along to some live music shows to shoot and see if you can get your images used. The chances are you probably won't get paid initially but thats a whole different aspect of getting started.
You might find that you like shooting fashion and/or portraits and organise your friends to sit for some shoots with you and try to be creative that way and add to your portfolio that way.

The most important thing to remember is to enjoy taking the pictures you enjoy taking. It's a constant learning curve, even for people shooting 20-30 years.

When I first applied to get into DIT and IADT years and years ago I wasn't accepted. It was tough to deal with when I had my heart set on it. It didn't stop me though and only encouraged me more and more. The following year I reapplied and got the maximum points from both DIT and IADT but didn't take it. The year off I had put me in a new direction with my photography so I waited another year and reapplied. Again I got max points from both college but I was happy with where I was going and what I was doing and felt starting fresh back at 1st year in college would have been a step back for me at the time. After my 3rd year of reapplying and getting accepted I realised studying photography formally wasn't where I wanted to go.

It's more important to be a photographer than a photography student in my view.

Thanks for all the advice. Its been helpful. Maybe I'll reconsider studying photography and do something else. I was under the impression that going to college would make it easier for you to get work. Thanks

ElizabethM

lisatiffany wrote: »

Hi Pamela

1. Where did you go to college? film school in the UK/Russia and the new york film academy. I worked in film long enough to apply my camera and tech knowledge to photography. I'd been taking photos and recording video since I was about 13yrs old so it wasn't hard to concentrate more effort on photography and not film.

2. How did you find work in photography? From working on film/TV/music business I quickly collected enough contacts to be asked to work on shoots and events. I do paid shoots as well as shooting for myself (enjoying what I do is half the attraction to it) but I'm not depending on it to pay the bills, luckily I have some other things that do that. It's certainly possible to make a career out of it but it definitely takes persistence, for instance I know many people who miss out on opportunities because of travel. I'm doing 5 shoots over the next week scattered all over and outside of Dublin and one of the most important things for me is to make sure I can get to each one. I'm meeting someone in about an hour to catch some evening shots and travel wise its about an hours drive, its those little things I'd mention now because getting to an opportunity is sometimes one of those things people forget about.

3. What kind of things are there out there for photographers to do? Well that really depends on the type of photography you want to get into, my advice would be to try different types from landscape to portraits and just take it from there as someone already said the world is your oyster.

I'm running out the door soon but if I think of anything else I'll be sure to add it - Lisa

Thanks for your help. I'll take it into consideration.

CabanSail

If you plan to work in Photography then most likely you will end up running your own small business. I have heard so many Photographers complain that they spend more time running the business than doing anything creative.

Maybe the way to go is to do Business Studies at college while you learn photography yourself.

EyeBlinks

CabanSail wrote: »

If you plan to work in Photography then most likely you will end up running your own small business. I have heard so many Photographers complain that they spend more time running the business than doing anything creative.

Maybe the way to go is to do Business Studies at college while you learn photography yourself.

Or, maybe do a bit of barter and farm it out to someone who can do it better

ScumLord

I would have thought planning a photography career would be pretty pointless. It seems very difficult to make stand out work these days without some sort of new really expensive piece of kit.

I think what a young person like you could do though is get nerdy about photography, start consuming information now while your young and your brain is still in learning mode. Learn as much as you can so that your not restricted to one role and you have the opportunity to not just be good at taking photos but could get a job, reviewing, testing, selling or even in the manufacturing and development of photography equipment. Photography is a huge industry if your not blinkered by just taking photos.

Start trying to get access to equipment, learn standards, get on top of the technology advances and just start learning for your own benefit so you'll have a better idea of what you could possibly do.

EyeBlinks

ScumLord wrote: »

I would have thought planning a photography career would be pretty pointless. It seems very difficult to make stand out work these days without some sort of new really expensive piece of kit. QUOTE]

There's any amount of fab stuff coming out of Ireland at the moment. And elswhere of course too. No great investment needed.

My advice would be visit as many exhibitions as you can, to look at stuff and get inspired. Generally free too.

The National Photographic Archive in Temple Bar hosts this year's annual DIT BA Photography Exhibition. Some terrific stuff in it this year. Standard is very high.

Daveysil15

You don't need expensive kit to be a good photographer. Yes its difficult to make a career from photography, but imagination is more valuable than knowledge as Albert Einstein said. It's about having that creative eye. It's a good idea to work as a photographer's assistant. I've learned a lot this way. There's a lot of instructional videos on Youtube which I also found very useful.

There's nothing you can learn from a photography course that you can't get from books and the internet. Most of the best photographers I know are self taught, and I mean some of the best photographers in the world. I know a young photographer in Dublin who works with a modelling agency. He's 16 years old, has only been doing it a couple of years and is already one of the top fashion photographers in Ireland. Find your niche and stick with it.

EyeBlinks

Daveysil15 wrote: »

There's nothing you can learn from a photography course that you can't get from books and the internet.

There are indeed some great self thought photographers but I would say there is loads to be got from doing a formal BA/MA that can't be got else where.

Daveysil15

EyeBlinks wrote: »

There are indeed some great self thought photographers but I would say there is loads to be got from doing a formal BA/MA that can't be got else where.

It's a piece of paper at the end of the day. I'm not saying its useless or anything, but a strong portfolio will get you further in photography than a diploma on its own.

dave66

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It's a piece of paper at the end of the day. I'm not saying its useless or anything, but a strong portfolio will get you further in photography than a diploma on its own.

I haven't done any formal photography courses, so I can't speak from experience and I whole heartedly agree that real life experience is invaluable. That said I would think that it's more than a piece of paper. The paper represents time you have spent learning, honing your skills. But for me, I would think it's a chance to immerse yourself in something you love, you give yourself possibly the most valuable gift of time, which is something that becomes increasingly difficult as your life progresses and takes you down different paths.

I would love to have the time and finances to undertake a degree (even diploma) course, I doubt I could make a living from photography but I'd still like to immerse myself in the learning. As it also gives you time with people who share your passion & interest.

If you have a passion for something, go for it.

sineadw

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It's a piece of paper at the end of the day. I'm not saying its useless or anything, but a strong portfolio will get you further in photography than a diploma on its own.

I despair any time I read this Yes it's a piece of paper, but it represents so much more. I have a degree in creative digital media (majoring in photography and multimedia), and I'm currently studying on a two year masters in fine art in NCAD, through photography. That's a six year investment. If I thought for one minute that all I'd get from it is the qualification I would have left in first year. What it represents most of all to me is being able to fully immerse yourself in a subject you love, being taught by *people who know what they're talking about*, learning to see differently, being surrounded by people you can bounce off, learning the technical skills (and the business skills - all the courses teach you this, but it shouldn't be your main focus!!), and - making a portfolio! You do make one in college you know And you gain space and knowledge to allow yourself to grow as a photographer and develop your own voice and style. I'm sorry, but they're all things you don't get on YouTube.

@OP: I LOVE studying photography (I'm strongly considering a doctorate atm) and I can't recommend it enough If you love it, go for it. Research your options and find a course that fits you photographically. You'll have three to four years to figure out the job stuff, and by then everything may well have changed. Learn from whatever sources you can, including YouTube, magazines and forums (college will equip you with the tools to learn, but it doesn't necessarily provide you with all the knowledge;) ). I'm focussed on the fine art end of things at the moment, with teaching and hopefully some commissions being my main hopes for a stable income. God only knows where we'll be when you're graduating, so I say do what you love

nonsequitir

Remember, "Those who question training only train themselves at asking questions!".

elven

There are probably as many different replies as there are people on here, because it covers such a huge range of possibilities, just saying 'a career in photography'...

Putting aside how likely it is that you'd be able to make a success of any of these options, have a think about how an education would actually serve you (or not) AND how your personality and natural skills match each of these:

If you're in it for actually taking photos, you can either sell the photos you've taken, or sell your photography as a service.

You've got the print & publishing people who actually go out and shoot for themselves, maybe landscapes, architecture, wildlife, and sell the results either as prints or in books. They usually add to their income by doing workshops and sharing their knowledge about photography and their chosen subject. What sort of education would make you better at that? It's mostly about how good you are at photography, technically and artistically, and what kind of passion you have for your chosen subject, and not about letters after your name or networking, so the kind of education that would help most there is one that is about practical photography skills.

If you're going for fine art, trying to get shows in galleries, selling prints at a high level, that's when you'd benefit from a fine art type degree because what you'd need is to learn how to talk their talk and make contacts in the right places, and learn about the process of shooting from a conceptual perspective, and how to actually prepare an exhibition, and from what i've seen (but I'm open to being proven wrong) most gallery shows do seem to be by people who have come that route.

You can be a photographer for hire in fashion, lifestyle, food, sports, entertainment and commercial environments - i think there are courses that are specifically geared more towards that where the point is to get you a solid foundation of technical photographic ability, as well as teaching you how to build a portfolio and deal with the business side of things - I'm not sure how many people get hired in house by studios or publishers now or if you'd generally always be a freelancer. That would take a certain type of person who doesn't expect to come in and sit at a desk mon-fri 9-5 and be prepared to be cheeky and push yourself to get work.

There's the whole wedding thing, and so much has been said elsewhere about that, the main thing being that I think you'd burn out pretty quickly if you don't actually love it. That's also probably where a business education would benefit you more than a photographic one because that's where 90% of the work lies! I'm also unsure about where that industry is going, photographically, so it's impossible to make long term predictions but I suppose it's safe enough to say that people are always going to get married and they are probably mostly going to want a professional to record it in some way.

If you open it up a bit more to consider photography related jobs that aren't necessarily about taking photos per se, you've got hardware & software - if you're a bit of a geek you might enjoy the engineering side of things - this is where i haven't a clue what's actually out there but someone else might know more? Maybe getting into software development for processing, or even getting into doing image processing for photographers as an outsourced service? It seems to be fairly common as photographers want to maximise their time shooting. I'm pretty sure you'd want to be looking at specific courses geared towards whatever area of that you're interested in, which might not even mention photography but be about pure engineering, electronics, or software development or engineering. Or a media course where you're into editing and processing - I know there are some of those out there.

I know while i've been writing this sineadw has replied and she's probably covered some of it way better but hopefully that could get you thinking about what might suit...

EyeBlinks

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It's a piece of paper at the end of the day. I'm not saying its useless or anything, but a strong portfolio will get you further in photography than a diploma on its own.

Every degree is just a piece of paper, but I suppose what you're saying is a photography one is not worth the paper it's written on

sineadw

elven wrote: »

I know while i've been writing this sineadw has replied and she's probably covered some of it way better but hopefully that could get you thinking about what might suit...

Nope - yours is way better

magicbastarder

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It's a piece of paper at the end of the day. I'm not saying its useless or anything, but a strong portfolio will get you further in photography than a diploma on its own.

and learning how to take a decent photo or what makes a decent photo obviously has no impact on your ability to produce a strong portfolio?

melekalikimaka

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It's a piece of paper at the end of the day. I'm not saying its useless or anything, but a strong portfolio will get you further in photography than a diploma on its own.

I assure you its more than a piece of paper, you learn alot, an awful lot, can make a bad photographer good, and a good one amazing

EyeBlinks

I would class myself as an ok photographer, all self taught and no training.

The amount of times I've ran into my limitations over the past year, when I've tried to focus myself on what I want to do, have been endless.

I'd say studying is simply invaluable. If you get the opportunity jump at it.

Daveysil15

sineadw wrote: »

I despair any time I read this Yes it's a piece of paper, but it represents so much more.

EyeBlinks wrote: »

Every degree is just a piece of paper, but I suppose what you're saying is a photography one is not worth the paper it's written on

magicbastarder wrote: »

and learning how to take a decent photo or what makes a decent photo obviously has no impact on your ability to produce a strong portfolio?

melekalikimaka wrote: »

I assure you its more than a piece of paper, you learn alot, an awful lot, can make a bad photographer good, and a good one amazing

Having a diploma is photography is not the same as having a diploma in media, or engineering etc. The difference been you don't need a diploma to be a professional photographer. As I said, there's plenty of great photographers who are self taught. Of course you can learn a lot from a photography course, but its not essential. It's an expense you can do without. Some of the best photographers in the world don't have a diploma.

melekalikimaka

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Having a diploma is photography is not the same as having a diploma in media, or engineering etc. The difference been you don't need a diploma to be a professional photographer. As I said, there's plenty of great photographers who are self taught. Of course you can learn a lot from a photography course, but its not essential. It's an expense you can do without. Some of the best photographers in the world don't have a diploma.

you dont need one, its an expense, but if you use your time well in college, it will help you become a professional much more efficiently and the aspects you learn about fine art and critiquing, exhibitions, printing, photoshop, darkroom, access to large/medium format cameras/ digital cameras/ lens/ studio whenever you want it/ contacts, are all valuable and to many well worth the expense and many would feel its something they would like to pursue in order to become the best they can

Daveysil15

melekalikimaka wrote: »

you dont need one, its an expense, but if you use your time well in college, it will help you become a professional much more efficiently and the aspects you learn about fine art and critiquing, exhibitions, printing, photoshop, darkroom, access to large/medium format cameras/ digital cameras/ lens/ studio whenever you want it/ contacts, are all valuable and to many well worth the expense and many would feel its something they would like to pursue in order to become the best they can

I'm not saying anything to the contrary, just that its not necessary. You don't need qualifications to be a photographer. Sure it may help some people, but to others it may be useless, or an expense they can't afford.

humberklog

ScumLord wrote: »

It seems very difficult to make stand out work these days without some sort of new really expensive piece of kit.

Utter claptrap. OP ignore this nonsense.


OP just take photos, if by the time you're filling out your CAO and you still think photography's a worth while 3rd level persuit then go for it.

melekalikimaka

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I'm not saying anything to the contrary, just that its not necessary. You don't need qualifications to be a photographer. Sure it may help some people, but to others it may be useless, or an expense they can't afford.

of course it can be an expense they cant afford, that applies to many fields of study.... but i fail to understand whom it would be 'useless' for?

magicbastarder

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Having a diploma is photography is not the same as having a diploma in media, or engineering etc. The difference been you don't need a diploma to be a professional photographer.

and you *need* a diploma to work in media?
you don't *need* a degree in maths to prove fermat's last theorem. but it would sure help.

jonniebgood1

melekalikimaka wrote: »

of course it can be an expense they cant afford, that applies to many fields of study.... but i fail to understand whom it would be 'useless' for?

I presume it would be 'useless' for someone who was already familiar with the aspects of photography that make up such a course.

sineadw

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

melekalikimaka wrote: »

of course it can be an expense they cant afford, that applies to many fields of study.... but i fail to understand whom it would be 'useless' for?

I presume it would be 'useless' for someone who was already familiar with the aspects of photography that make up such a course.

I'd disagree again here. A degree (diploma, masters..) is so much more than the stated learning objectives. I knew a lot about photography starting mine, and what i learned most wasn't in any book or on any website. It's confidence, a new way of seeing, a new vocabulary, a new network.. lots of other things..

artyeva

sineadw wrote: »

I'd disagree again here. A degree (diploma, masters..) is so much more than the stated learning objectives. I knew a lot about photography starting mine, and what i learned most wasn't in any book or on any website. It's confidence, a new way of seeing, a new vocabulary, a new network.. lots of other things..

despite sinead's best efforts i think it's hard to acurately or adequately convey the importance of creativity in a field like photography, that straddles both sides of a medium - creative and technical - some get it, others might not ever.

from personal experience you cannot learn creativity [as much as you can learn it] alone, you learn through exposure and complete immersion in your medium for the duration of your course surrounded by others who are also completely immersed. being allowed the freedom and time to persue whatever aspect of the medium interests you, learning the context of what you're doing, exploring the history of the medium, having the support structures and experience of tutors and teachers around you. that's far more important in a field like photography [or any other creative field for that matter] than learning how to use a press a shutter.

but yeah, humberklog is on the right advice track for the op i suppose.

take as many photos as you can. take the photos that interest you, take photos that challenge you. does you school have a darkroom you could access? build up mini portfolios of images that have common themes, see how many different ways you portray something [or some one, or some place]. i've seen this book on amazon, and while i've never read it, i love the sound of it and would have loved it when i was still in school putting together my portfolio!! get the advice of your art teacher, see if they can set you some challenges and give you some critique as to what you can improve on. stuff like that will get you in the right frame of mind if, in a few years time, you want to put together a portfolio for college.

Gregor Samsa

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

I presume it would be 'useless' for someone who was already familiar with the aspects of photography that make up such a course.

I have a BA in Fine Art Painting from NCAD. About as "useless" a Degree as you could have from a career point of view. You don't need a degree to become an artist, and I never even became an artist

But it was the best learning experience of my life, and if I had to do it all over again, I would without any hesitation.

Doing a diploma/degree like this is not about the technical aspects. In Fine Art, we were never once told how to hold a paintbrush, how to mix a colour, how to paint in any particular style. But what we were given was 4 years of creativity, analysis, projects that pushed you out of your comfort zone, constant driving, and an environment where you could be completely immersed in your work. You could do anything you wanted, but you had to justify it. You had to be versed in the visual language you were trying to express yourself in. If you ended up with two boxes on top of each other, then fine, but you better be able to talk intelligently about why there were two boxes on top of each other. You also had access to technical stuff that you wouldn't have had access to in the real world (darkrooms, etching and screenprinting setups, kilns, metal casting, etc).

I'd say a (good) photography degree is somewhat similar. Very little of it is going to be about aperture, shutter speed and ISO. But you are going to be pushed on composition, asked to justify everything, eating, sleeping and breathing photography. And a few years of that can really help you develop your creative side that is very difficult (maybe not impossible) to do if you're working full time - even at photography.

It's an expensive experience (fees, lost earnings, etc), and not necessarily one that would be of interest to everyone, but certainly not useless.

artyeva

phutyle wrote: »

I have a BA in Fine Art Painting from NCAD. About as "useless" a Degree as you could have from a career point of view.

i'll see your painting BA and raise you a BA in sculpture

Gregor Samsa

artyeva wrote: »

i'll see your painting BA and raise you a BA in sculpture

A printmaker will come along soon and trump us both

magicbastarder

artyeva wrote: »

i'll see your painting BA and raise you a BA in sculpture

NCAD? i think i may know one of your lecturers. he may have retired a few years ago, though.

EyeBlinks

artyeva wrote: »

i'll see your painting BA and raise you a BA in sculpture

You're a sculptress ! Care to design a piece for me ?

Daveysil15

melekalikimaka wrote: »

of course it can be an expense they cant afford, that applies to many fields of study.... but i fail to understand whom it would be 'useless' for?

Well its useless for the talented photographers out there who are already successful. As artyeva pointed out, you can't learn creativity. Photography is not like maths or engineering. You're either creative or you're not.

artyeva

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Well its useless for the talented photographers out there who are already successful. As artyeva pointed out, you can't learn creativity. Photography is not like maths or engineering. You're either creative or you're not.

um, that's not quite what i said at all. i don't think you can learn creativity from a book, i think you need to be exposed to it. surrounded by it, allowed the freedom to explore it, have it nurtured by good lecturers. and i'm not sure i agree with you either have it or you don't. everyone has some level of creativity in them. my sister couldn't draw a straight line or take a photo without chopping people's heads off[ if she remembers to take the lens cap off that is], but she's a florist, and some of the things she sculpts in flowers are stunning. that's creative. one of my best mates is a fantastically creative photographer and he's a scientist who's now doing a masters in engineering!

creativity when you boil all the crap out of it is just a different type of problem solving. when you're studying a creative disipline it's all about the problem solving. in our common first year, we were given a white A1 page, divided up into little 5*5 squares. we had to illustrate words like 'fast' 'deep' 'tired' and 'happy' etc using just glue and more bits of white paper. that's exactly the same type of problem solving as 'prove x=y using yadda yadda's theory of whatnot' you're just using a visual language to do it rather than a mathematic formula. what a degree/diploma taches you is that visual language.

and by the by talented and successful are such different cans of worms they're not even on the same shelf... but that's not for this thread

magicbastarder wrote: »

NCAD? i think i may know one of your lecturers. he may have retired a few years ago, though.

nah, went to an open day in NCAD when i was in 6th year and didn't like it, went for LSAD instead. glad i did, great place. my whole diploma show was photography based, not a chisel in sight!

EyeBlinks wrote: »

You're a sculptress ! Care to design a piece for me ?

the last commission i did was designing a carpark. you want something along those lines?

humberklog

artyeva wrote: »

i'll see your painting BA and raise you a BA in sculpture

I'll fold (hnd civil engineering).

But so glad someone mentioned that studying isn't always about financial gain. How odd a world would that be?


But I do think the thread has been trolled, and trolled well.

Promac

sineadw wrote: »

I'd disagree again here. A degree (diploma, masters..) is so much more than the stated learning objectives. I knew a lot about photography starting mine, and what i learned most wasn't in any book or on any website. It's confidence, a new way of seeing, a new vocabulary, a new network.. lots of other things..

One of the most important aspects of any field, regardless of the course content. Uni is an instant network and that's invaluable.

dave66

Is there any chance that some of the people who have completed diplomas, degrees etc related to photography would be able to share the list of the books which were considered essential reading or course books. I know that reading the books won't ever come close to the experience of complete learning & immersion in the subject(s)/course but perhaps their are others like me who might like to read them as they might be as close to such a course as I'll ever get.

Please & thanks

EyeBlinks

sineadw wrote: »

a new vocabulary

I suppose you could always feign sickness for that bit of the course :rolleyes::P

Ricky91t

I've not read the majority of replies but all I'll say is learn to drive!! I was offered a job with the local newspaper but couldn't take it as 40% of the time would be spent on the road getting to the places. This may be different if you're in a city, but I still think its a good idea.

I bailed out on doing photography in DIT(ill explain below) but it was an idea I'm happy with. I'm currently studying computer science and still doing bits and pieces for paid/non paid photography. At the end of College I'm hoping to have a decent photography portfolio and a decent degree so I have two options of what to do from there.

I decided not to do photography in the end because it starts out as a 'who you know' kinda thing. The people I knew in photography in the area weren't the most fondest of me, one because I was offered a job when they needed a photographer and I turned it down and the other because of an argument over pay. Things have blown over now though, but I thought at the time, trying to get experience in first year of college during the holidays wouldn't be easy, but I'm happy with the choice I made.

If there is another area you're interested in, then consider that too, but become an active member of the photography society in your college of choice and get on the committee. Until then focus on photography spend your holidays at events, taking photos look out for news paper type photographers and have a chat you never know what might come out of it!

melekalikimaka

dave66 wrote: »

Is there any chance that some of the people who have completed diplomas, degrees etc related to photography would be able to share the list of the books which were considered essential reading or course books. I know that reading the books won't ever come close to the experience of complete learning & immersion in the subject(s)/course but perhaps their are others like me who might like to read them as they might be as close to such a course as I'll ever get.

Please & thanks

check out 'ways of seeing' should be on the youtube

twinkiewinkle

I heard the New york Film Academy photography program was good...Found this review by a student named Marien De Moya.

I chose to study at New York Film Academy because it’s a good condensed program to start your career and a good first step for production design.

The best thing this school has is its hands-on teaching and allowing you to work right away. I recommend this program, especially for those interested in the cinematography programs.