Who you know or what you know?

vamos!

I am on the never-ending job hunt again this year. I lost my part-time hours in my school due to cuts and guidance coming back into mainstream. I have just spent the morning ringing schools to see if they had received my application. I have only applied for jobs where I am qualified to teach both subjects. I didn't make the cut for 3 different interviews. I am not an NQT, have excellent results and a masters. I have no reason to suspect that my references aren't good and have had my CV checked by the Deputy Head. I have been involved in all sorts of extra curricular activities over the years. Who is being called for interview? What kind of experience and qualifications do they have? I am applying for RPT jobs not PWT. I am not looking to start a witch hunt here or rant. I am seriously wondering if I should give up and try something else if I cant secure work after 5 years. I know times are tough but this tough??? Is it all about haveing the qualification and knowing somebody with a bit of pull these days? There are a fair few language jobs advertised but I cant get the job without getting an interview!!!! Input or tips welcome....

delta_bravo

It depends. We have all had experiences of doing interviews where a job doesn't exist. Absolutely nepotism and favouritism exists but there are some jobs out there. Its similar to the civil service 20+ years ago but they now have a transparent system in place.

happywithlife

totally who you know in my opinion :mad:

i actually pulled out of an interview this morning -- it was pwt (or whatever the correct term is these days ) and the interview was over 1.5 hrs drive away -- only put in for the interview to get back into the swing of them again but got up this morning and thought f*** it - i'm up to my eyeballs with correcting, it'd take the day and job is probably gone anyway ... no to mention the very harsh reality of having to put to petrol into the car for the return trip ... i decided against it ....

it is so disheartening ....
best thing i did a couple of years ago when i hadn't anything lined up by sept was to drive around the schools and hand in my cv absolutely everywhere ... i did get work from it so was worth it in the end ...

highly1111

Vamos I could have written that..., I'm the same. Apparently an excellent cv and cover letter which a principal went over with me a few years ago- I obviously adapt it accordingly. A masters, experience, loads of extra curricular stuff and not one call. Even a job was advertised where I went to school and I didnt get a call. I reckon half the advertised posts are already gone - or maybe I'm just rubbish! It's so disheartening as there are so few few jobs out there. You need a lucky break to get an interview in this system I think.

Seanchai

Definitely in the initial stages it's whom you know, and a bit of what you know. However, I can't help noticing that plámás and generally being a likeable rogue only gets one so far; more and more, principals are asking for your qualifications in the subject you're going to teach simply because the Department of Education is making a bigger deal over it.

Generally, however, the Department of Education is far, far too lenient on schools, allowing them to employ a slew of unqualified people largely because it is, still, alas whom you know. The state is facilitating this culture, when it alone has the financial power to curb it.

Seanchai

Has any study ever been done on the number of people teaching in schools who are unqualified to teach the subject they're teaching? There is no excuse why such people hold those teaching posts year after year when they could have gone to college at night and gained a qualification in them by now.

They should be sacked, just for being lazy bastards. Seriously.

Fuinseog

vamos! wrote: »

I am on the never-ending job hunt again this year. I lost my part-time hours in my school due to cuts and guidance coming back into mainstream. I have just spent the morning ringing schools to see if they had received my application. I have only applied for jobs where I am qualified to teach both subjects. I didn't make the cut for 3 different interviews. I am not an NQT, have excellent results and a masters. I have no reason to suspect that my references aren't good and have had my CV checked by the Deputy Head. I have been involved in all sorts of extra curricular activities over the years. Who is being called for interview? What kind of experience and qualifications do they have? I am applying for RPT jobs not PWT. I am not looking to start a witch hunt here or rant. I am seriously wondering if I should give up and try something else if I cant secure work after 5 years. I know times are tough but this tough??? Is it all about haveing the qualification and knowing somebody with a bit of pull these days? There are a fair few language jobs advertised but I cant get the job without getting an interview!!!! Input or tips welcome....

getting a teaching job is more linked to what extra curricular activities you can offer. forget academic qualifications.if you played GAA for the county- that is what counts. mention it in the letter of application. a lot of principals do not actually read the CV. you have several hundred applying o each job. maybe they just select the first ten CVs?

Lord TSC

From a personal standpoint, after I got my job last year, I was told it was a case of the school having 100 CVs and they literally just took the last 10 to come through and talked to those people, ignoring everyone else. I just got lucky my CV happened to land on their pile the day before they started looking.....

Fuinseog

highly1111 wrote: »

Vamos I could have written that..., I'm the same. Apparently an excellent cv and cover letter which a principal went over with me a few years ago- I obviously adapt it accordingly. A masters, experience, loads of extra curricular stuff and not one call. Even a job was advertised where I went to school and I didnt get a call. I reckon half the advertised posts are already gone - or maybe I'm just rubbish! It's so disheartening as there are so few few jobs out there. You need a lucky break to get an interview in this system I think.

true, luck is also a factor. At this time of year they are no pushed about getting staff. In August they will start to panic.

wolfyboy555

I've just started the job hunt today. I'm a NQT. What I find annoying is that you spend a lot of time doing up a cv and cover letter and then the school asks you to fill out an application form which contains pretty much the same information as the cv and cover letter. I'm going to find the process very time consuming and annoying.

Inspector Coptoor

The job application firms are retarded.
It puts me off ever applying for a VEC job.

I got an interview a few weeks ago & got the job, one year contract on full hours.

Didn't want to leave the school I was in but lost my hours & was only being offered a maternity leave, and. When you're 6 years qualified & as experienced as I am at this stage (not to sound snobbish) maternity leaves just don't cut it.

It's very disheartening the way teaching is gone in this country.

I'm once again a MINIMUM of 4 years away from a job I can call my own job.

Once again I have to move on to a new school, learn the names of hundreds of students & tens of teachers.

As I get closer and closer to thirty, (13 months away now) and remain as far away from being able to get a mortgage, it really pisses me off.

delta_bravo

Do many people you know just pack it in? I like teaching but I have other skills. I spent a year waiting on phonecalls to come in for subbing. Went over to england for interviews but didn't like the system over there. Have set a personal deadline that if nothing arises by Sept I'll look for work elsewhere

doc_17

happywithlife wrote: »

totally who you know in my opinion :mad:

i actually pulled out of an interview this morning -- it was pwt (or whatever the correct term is these days ) and the interview was over 1.5 hrs drive away -- only put in for the interview to get back into the swing of them again but got up this morning and thought f*** it - i'm up to my eyeballs with correcting, it'd take the day and job is probably gone anyway ... no to mention the very harsh reality of having to put to petrol into the car for the return trip ... i decided against it ....

it is so disheartening ....
best thing i did a couple of years ago when i hadn't anything lined up by sept was to drive around the schools and hand in my cv absolutely everywhere ... i did get work from it so was worth it in the end ...

Did you have any knowledge that this job was going to someone else? If not it's amzing you didn't go for the interview.

muirthemne

I am so p***ed off once again this year......was not even on full hours this year and now I suspect they are to be taken away......on the job hunt yet again and am not sure whether I should apply for jobs where I have both subjects or chance it and apply even if I only have one of the subjects, is this a waste of time??????

bdoo

My principal had two jobs advertised for our school about 150 people applied.

for one job nobody was shortlisted out of 80 because their subjects were not right. so 80 people applied for a job they were not qualified to do.

for the second job they managed to shortlisted a handful out of all who applied only some were qualified.

if a job is asking for two subjects you need to have both to lc unless it says otherwise in the ad.

I suspect that many who applied for these jobs feel hard done by as they didnt get a call.

as for unqualified teachers im not sure how much of a problem it is. from next year you can't be paid unless registered with tc and we all know how hard that is.

if i could give any advice it would be to keep applying. make your application stand out.

spell check, address the application to the right person, and dont be waiting for an interview to sell yourself.

therunaround

Similar situation with our place about 200 applications and none with the right combo.

Also it's important to do the interview if the location is within reason. I didn't get the job in an interview after my dip but a maternity leave in the same department came up a few months later and was called in then. That's how I got started.

TheDriver

to tell ye about it from the other side

Lots apply for jobs.
We don't favour anyone in particular unless we know someone who is very good but that only puts them in contention, not guaranteed.
Lots apply that aren't qualified, straight into the bin
people don't read ads. I mean not a word! If you say email for a form, then please don't ring the school! And nothing worse than someone ringing saying they can't use a computer because that just says it all, any new teacher must be able to use email/word etc in this day and age and if you struggle, get someone to do it for you.
People who send their CV when it says use an application form
My BIG hate: people who email me back an application form even though it says post it in!

But to put it down to the bottom line, we don't have a system of who we know to be honest. And welcome everyone applying if they actually want the job. And excellent CVs, I have seen plenty and 2 seconds into the interview, bin...
Best one I ever had was down to the waiting room for a lady in for interview, made some chit chat on the way up where she told me how she wasn't bothered about the interview and was thinking of staying in bed that day but may as well answer the old fogeys questions to see what its like. needless to say the expression on her face when she saw a very young fogey then didn't help her.....

And look at all the threads on this about "3 years and let go" or "I deserve a CID" etc, we must be so so careful to make sure we don't get stuck with a lame duck because once someone is in the door, its difficult to move them on.

Millem

vamos! wrote: »

I am on the never-ending job hunt again this year. I lost my part-time hours in my school due to cuts and guidance coming back into mainstream. I have just spent the morning ringing schools to see if they had received my application. I have only applied for jobs where I am qualified to teach both subjects. I didn't make the cut for 3 different interviews. I am not an NQT, have excellent results and a masters. I have no reason to suspect that my references aren't good and have had my CV checked by the Deputy Head. I have been involved in all sorts of extra curricular activities over the years. Who is being called for interview? What kind of experience and qualifications do they have? I am applying for RPT jobs not PWT. I am not looking to start a witch hunt here or rant. I am seriously wondering if I should give up and try something else if I cant secure work after 5 years. I know times are tough but this tough??? Is it all about haveing the qualification and knowing somebody with a bit of pull these days? There are a fair few language jobs advertised but I cant get the job without getting an interview!!!! Input or tips welcome....

I always used to say it's who you know not what you know until I got my job, i was a complete outsider not from the local area and I am not the same religion as the school and only had 1 years experience. I am very much in the minority in the staff room. I got my CID last week so can't complain. But I do notice that a lot of jobs are given to past pupils who are qualified teachers but not qualified in subjects given! A lot of the snas got their jobs as they knew the teachers from the church (nearly 100% sure they haven't done the course) my biggest gripe though is giving full time teaching jobs in resource and learning support to anyone who has not done the qualification! Maybe they do it as there is a shortage of qualified people but it is so unfair if there are unemployed teachers who have paid a lot of money to do the course!

Fuinseog

TheDriver wrote: »

to tell ye about it from the other side

Lots apply for jobs.
We don't favour anyone in particular unless we know someone who is very good but that only puts them in contention, not guaranteed.
Lots apply that aren't qualified, straight into the bin
people don't read ads. I mean not a word! If you say email for a form, then please don't ring the school! And nothing worse than someone ringing saying they can't use a computer because that just says it all, any new teacher must be able to use email/word etc in this day and age and if you struggle, get someone to do it for you.
People who send their CV when it says use an application form
My BIG hate: people who email me back an application form even though it says post it in!

But to put it down to the bottom line, we don't have a system of who we know to be honest. And welcome everyone applying if they actually want the job. And excellent CVs, I have seen plenty and 2 seconds into the interview, bin...
Best one I ever had was down to the waiting room for a lady in for interview, made some chit chat on the way up where she told me how she wasn't bothered about the interview and was thinking of staying in bed that day but may as well answer the old fogeys questions to see what its like. needless to say the expression on her face when she saw a very young fogey then didn't help her.....

And look at all the threads on this about "3 years and let go" or "I deserve a CID" etc, we must be so so careful to make sure we don't get stuck with a lame duck because once someone is in the door, its difficult to move them on.

Thanks for that. always nice to hear from the other side. out of curiosity, what is it with the snail mail. Most folks use electronic mail these days?

happywithlife

doc - just to get to your question, even though i know the posts have moved on a bit --
i didn't go for the interview as it would be too far to travel on a daily basis but i applied for it just to get a bit of experience in the ole interviews again ...
and it was a permanent position so i very much assume t'was gone .

Inspector Coptoor

I fully understand why management need to be sure about someone & if you apply for a job, you should make sure you're applying for the job asked but it really pisses me off when you get into a place, commit to the place, do extra curricular to the point of it being 22 hours teaching & 12 hours coaching & then the dept/management moves the goal posts, your hours are cut, and you have to start all over again.

But to put it another way, I have often applied for my current "official" combo (science & biology), got an interview & flew the it only to be asked, "would you teach Maths/Chemistry as I see you have taught it before?"

What am I supposed to say here?

Sure as hell ain't gonna say no.

saffron77

I would just like to say that it has never been easy to get a job in secondary school teaching- with the recent cuts etc, it is harder. But it was never the case that you left college and walked into a job- unless we are talking back in the 60's and 70's. I left college in 1998- subbed for years literally all over the country and finally got a CID 3 years ago. It is worth calling to schools with your CV. Thats how I got called for interview for the job I have now. My principal said he always remembered the ones who called in with the CV. If you love teaching and want to stay teaching I think you have to be prepared to sub for a long time- I did it for 7 years. But its not an easy career to get into.

Inspector Coptoor

I know that.
I'll be starting my 7th year of subbing & one year contracts on August 27th.

There just doesn't seem to be a proper path of progression.

I think it's good for people to spend time in the "trenches" subbing & seeing different schools, different types of kids & teaching in single sex & co-Ed schools.

Spending 30/40 years in one school & not experiencing any other school isn't how I'd like my career to have panned out.

I just hate the luck element that comes into getting a CID.

So many people I know who work in primary were made permanent on their 1st day of work 5/6 years ago & it just sticks in my craw.

There is no semblance of fairness.

TheDriver

Fuinseog wrote: »

Thanks for that. always nice to hear from the other side. out of curiosity, what is it with the snail mail. Most folks use electronic mail these days?

As in why do we request people to send them in? Because they will actually go to the bother of reading what they did, I found emailing completed app forms always comtain mistakes. Also it must be signed and must have TC reg etc and if people have these scanned in, they can be massive file sizes (some people don't know how to scan a pdf and file it small) so snail mail is best.

vamos!

TheDriver wrote: »

As in why do we request people to send them in? Because they will actually go to the bother of reading what they did, I found emailing completed app forms always comtain mistakes. Also it must be signed and must have TC reg etc and if people have these scanned in, they can be massive file sizes (some people don't know how to scan a pdf and file it small) so snail mail is best.

I presume you are in management in your school. Have you been advised to ask for TC reg, transcripts, written references and all of the extra stuff that seems to be required this year? I would have imagined that a shortlist of candidates could be compiled and then you could check the TC register? I know it is no big deal to send a copy but it seems bizzare when we (like you) pay to be kept on a register. I could be missing something very simple here though.... It is also lovely to hear that not all jobs are earmarked!

Inspector Coptoor

vamos! wrote: »

I know it is no big deal to send a copy but it seems bizzare when we (like you) pay to be kept on a register. I could be missing something very simple here though.... It is also lovely to hear that not all jobs are earmarked!

This.

Why are we paying the TC and getting a shiny little card with a number on it if that number can't be referenced easily by management?

Why do you have to be Garda Vetted when moving schools although your employer, the DES, hasn't changed?

It's a massive failing

Fuinseog

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

This.

Why are we paying the TC and getting a shiny little card with a number on it if that number can't be referenced easily by management?

Why do you have to be Garda Vetted when moving schools although your employer, the DES, hasn't changed?

It's a massive failing

I worked in schools and they never asked for Garda vetting or TC reg. people are getting subbing without TC reg which makes me wonder why I fork out the cash.

I notice some young teachers completely unwilling to work outside of their city or town. experience is experience though long term a year Donegal and the next year in Cork there is a head wrecker.

Geologyrocks

Bdoo and therunaround, if you don't mind me asking, what are the subject combos that none of the applicants had?

Inspector Coptoor

Fuinseog wrote: »

I notice some young teacher completely unwilling to work outside of their city or town. experience is experience though long term a year Donegal and the next year in Cork there is a head wrecker.

People with that attitude really pi$$ me off.

I've taught in Cardiff, mainland Europe, Connacht, Drogheda, the midlands & Dublin.

But at this stage, I just want a job to call my own, buy a house, have a career & have a life.

vamos!

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

People with that attitude really pi$$ me off.

I've taught in Cardiff, mainland Europe, Connacht, Drogheda, the midlands & Dublin.

But at this stage, I just want a job to call my own, buy a house, have a career & have a life.

Me too. Europe, midlands, Dub, Kildare and more. I have always had work and been happy to have it. The happiness is wearing off and annoyance is setting in. I am also heading for 30 and have no idea where I will be in Sept. Life is on hold and no amount of hard work seems to be paying off. I earn as much in a week as I did in my college summer job due to part-time hours. It is really starting to get to me. I would love to know how many French and German teachers I am competing with!

Fuinseog

vamos! wrote: »

Me too. Europe, midlands, Dub, Kildare and more. I have always had work and been happy to have it. The happiness is wearing off and annoyance is setting in. I am also heading for 30 and have no idea where I will be in Sept. Life is on hold and no amount of hard work seems to be paying off. I earn as much in a week as I did in my college summer job due to part-time hours. It is really starting to get to me. I would love to know how many French and German teachers I am competing with!

its easy to get work. You just have to be willing to travel, which is a bummer if you want a life. there are no permanent jobs out there so you might as well enjoy your summer and wait for the next round in August.

the bummer with being a sub is that very often other teachers do not want to know you as they know you are just passing through. among principals even if you are qualified and experienced there seems to be a lot of disinterest. I know a French teacher who lived in France for years and is very much into her French, yet she is still subbing, subbing very often in schools where some of the French teachers have rusty French, but are permanent openly admit to never have visited France. yo need to be at the right place at the right time.