Ireland's future at center.

dtpc191991

With age beginning to catch up on D'Arcy and O'Driscoll I started thinking about long term options at center for Ireland. Both have been absolutley fantastic players with BOD being the best we've ever had. Who would yo pick to succeed at 12 and 13. Below are some possible options feel free to add any I've missed.

Possible 12s
McFadden
McSharry
Marshall
Fitzgerald
O'Shea
Whitten

Possible 13s
Cave
Griffin
Earls
O'Malley
Macken
Bowe

Fishooks12

Possible 12: JJ Hanrahan

Hagz

For me

12. McSharry
13. Macken

And then once Brewer enters the fray, he'll certainly make an impact.

TheKeenMachine

Nevin Spence will come good

thomond2006

Luke Marshall and Farrell from Ulster?

Fishooks12

In 2 years I reckon it could be JJ and Griffin but anything could happen between then

You forgot Spence too

It's also reassuring looking at all the genuinely brilliant potential we have coming through in the positions

HigginsJ

12. Sexton
13. Cave

TheKeenMachine

Fishooks12 wrote: »

In 2 years I reckon it could be JJ and Griffin but anything could happen between then

You forgot Spence too

It's also reassuring looking at all the genuinely brilliant potential we have coming through in the positions

To be honest, I wouldn't call these guys brilliant potentially, none of them strike me as world beaters. Perhaps Hanrahan.

Barnes still learning the 13 game at Munster too. Lualala will hopefully teach him a thing or too as well.
Hanrahan too, a 10/12.

Ulster stocked full of promising centres. So much so that Whitten's had to head on.

Leinster not exactly brimming with them, but McF and EOM with O'Shea and Macken as backup, and potentially Fitz / Madigan as emergency cover we'll be okay.

The lads at Connacht are definitely worth mentioning too.

We'll get there.

shuffol

Chris Farrells got the most potential IMO, big lad, silky runner, can offload and a nice passer too.

CatFromHue

I can see D'arcy and BOD being first choice for Leinster in the centre for the next year or more to be honest so I'd say for Ireland the other options will have to come from the other provinces. D'arcy towards the end of this season said or certainly implied that he'd no intention or retiring anytime soon and BOD I'd imagine is the same, especially after the long lay off he had this season to recuperate.

Also as long as D'arcy, BOD, McFadden, and EOM are fit and with Leinster I can't see Fitzgerald playing there.

Tox56

Macken will probably get a chance at 13 early in the season, EOM is injured and BOD was touring.

Even later into the season EOM might not be fully fit and BOD won't play every game, so it could be a big year for him.

dtpc191991

I forgaot about JJ. It could be a brilliant choice. It would be like the Sexton-Rog Axis. You'd have a 10 that doubles as a 12 and a 10 creating two points of attack. We could be very formidable with that combo plus JJ can goal kick well which means Madigan could be played alongside him without us losing a practiced goal kicker.

CatFromHue

JJ won't be playing for the Seniors anytime soon. He'll have enough trouble getting a game with Munster with the options they have available.

HigginsJ

CatFromHue wrote: »

JJ won't be playing for the Seniors anytime soon. He'll have enough trouble getting a game with Munster with the options they have available.

Yea this is Ireland where a young lad in rugby terms needs to be about 25. Players just dont get a chance at international level.

.ak

I'd hope future Irish management realize the importance of rotation and the importance of using certain players for a certain game template.

For example, I'd love to see:

12. Fitzgerald
13. Cave

for those tight niggily games that always end up being heavy traffic affairs, these two really know how to navigate their way through some big midfield.

But alternatively, for a more open game I'd love to see a developed partnership of:

12. Marshall
13. O'Malley


Unfortunately I don't rate Earls as a long term prospect at centre. I know I'll get my head bitten off for this one, but whilst I don't think he's been 'shown up' at 13 or 12 for that matter I just don't think he's anything more than a decent cover centre player who has waaay more strength on the wing. The above players have far more potential navigating and defending the midfield than he does, I'd love to see them given a chance.

Wishful thinking though.

bilston

dtpc191991 wrote: »

With age beginning to catch up on D'Arcy and O'Driscoll I started thinking about long term options at center for Ireland. Both have been absolutley fantastic players with BOD being the best we've ever had. Who would yo pick to succeed at 12 and 13. Below are some possible options feel free to add any I've missed.

Possible 12s
McFadden
McSharry
Marshall
Fitzgerald
O'Shea
Whitten

Possible 13s
Cave
Griffin
Earls
O'Malley
Macken
Bowe

You can add Chris Farrell, preferably as a 12, and personally I think Peter Nelson might have a very bright future at 13 but Ulster seem determined to develop him at 15. Obviously both those players have only limited gametime at Pro 12 level and in Nelson's case it wasn't even in the midfield, but still.

Anyway the important thing, particularly at 13, is that whoever replaces BOD is allowed to be his own man. We shouldn't be looking for a replacement for BOD because we'll never find one. There was 20 years between Gibson and O'Driscoll and I fancy there'll be even longer between BOD and any Irish centre who can match him. Our next 13 might be Earls who attacks like a young BOD but doesn't have the passing, kicking or defensive ame of O'Driscoll, it may be Cave, but then he doesn't have the explosiveness of BOD, maybe it will be Bowe who would be a completely different type of player altogether.

Scioch

I'd be very interested to see how Spence turns out in a few years. His workrate is second to none, has a good head on him, great power and he's young enough to develop some prowess too.

Of all the centres I'd be inclined to keep my eye on him more so than anyone else.

RoundBox11

I've been banging this drum for a while now but i really think Luke Marshall will turn out to be the real deal. Great passer, kicker and defender and runs excellent lines. Combined with his ability to break tackles and offload.... give it time...

Whichever players do get selected will be well up for it tho. They will have so much competition to overcome!

CatFromHue

The problem for Marshall and Spence is that Wallace and Cave are there. Come AI or 6 Nations it would appear at the moment anyway that neither will be in contention for an Ireland spot. Paddy Wallace will be 33 in August but is still going strong and similar to D'arcy in Leinster I can see him being first choice not only for this season but for next too! Especially with either Jackson or NOC at 10 he will be needed as he offers that extra play making ability.

profitius

dtpc191991 wrote: »

With age beginning to catch up on D'Arcy and O'Driscoll I started thinking about long term options at center for Ireland. Both have been absolutley fantastic players with BOD being the best we've ever had. Who would yo pick to succeed at 12 and 13. Below are some possible options feel free to add any I've missed.

Possible 12s
McFadden
McSharry
Marshall
Fitzgerald
O'Shea
Whitten

Possible 13s
Cave
Griffin
Earls
O'Malley
Macken
Bowe

Besides Cave, L. Marshall, Farrell and Griffin would be next the 3 young players I think will make it. Hanrahan too is they decide to keep him at 12. Bowe could make a good 13 but not for a few seasons yet.

I think one or two of the others COULD make it but at the moment they might be just short of international class.

CatFromHue

I can't see Bowe ever playing in the centre for Ulster considering all the other options they have there. It would take a serious injury crisis I'd say.

Tim Robbins

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I've been banging this drum for a while now but i really think Luke Marshall will turn out to be the real deal. Great passer, kicker and defender and runs excellent lines. Combined with his ability to break tackles and offload.... give it time...

Whichever players do get selected will be well up for it tho. They will have so much competition to overcome!

yeah I thought he was class in the Ulster / Leinster team. How come he is not getting more game time at Ulster?

sydthebeat

HigginsJ wrote: »

Yea this is Ireland where a young lad in rugby terms needs to be about 25. Players just dont get a chance at international level.

is it true that there is a maximum number of players that can be paid as internationals at any one time?

irishbucsfan

Tim Robbins wrote: »

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I've been banging this drum for a while now but i really think Luke Marshall will turn out to be the real deal. Great passer, kicker and defender and runs excellent lines. Combined with his ability to break tackles and offload.... give it time...

Whichever players do get selected will be well up for it tho. They will have so much competition to overcome!

yeah I thought he was class in the Ulster / Leinster team. How come he is not getting more game time at Ulster?

Picked up two injuries this season. If he's fit next season he'll be around the squad no doubt, thanks to Anscombes youth focus and Paddy Wallace's age

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote: »

yeah I thought he was class in the Ulster / Leinster team. How come he is not getting more game time at Ulster?

Has been injured and Wallace and Cave have been absolutely brilliant. Spence has hardly been poor either.

Bottleneck of centres up North, they churn em out at some degree. Farrell is the next one too!

bamboozle

Deleted User wrote: »

Barnes still learning the 13 game at Munster too. Lualala will hopefully teach him a thing or too as well.
Hanrahan too, a 10/12.

Ulster stocked full of promising centres. So much so that Whitten's had to head on.

Leinster not exactly brimming with them, but McF and EOM with O'Shea and Macken as backup, and potentially Fitz / Madigan as emergency cover we'll be okay.

The lads at Connacht are definitely worth mentioning too.

We'll get there.

i wouldnt be holding my breath on Barnes, he finished the second half of last season playing AIL with Dolphin and we'll see Lualala, Earls, Downey, Hanrahan ahead of him next season.

i'd love to see Luke Fitz at 13.

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

Has been injured and Wallace and Cave have been absolutely brilliant. Spence has hardly been poor either.

Bottleneck of centres up North, they churn em out at some degree. Farrell is the next one too!

Maybe one should go to Munster / Connacht.

Dangerous Man

We've got bagloads of talent coming through and some of the best players to ever play the game in a green shirt (or in O'Driscoll's case, any colour shirt) leaving soon enough.

As long as the transition is handled properly, that is, up and coming talent is given a chance before the old guard leave we should be okay.

roycon

A more complete list...

Possible 12s
Fergus McFadden
David McSharry
Luke Marshall
Luke Fitzgerald
Collie O'Shea
Ian Whitten
James Downey
Nevin Spence
Chris Farrell
Johnny Sexton
Ian Madigan
JJ Hanrahan

Possible 13s
Darren Cave
Eoin Griffin
Keith Earls
Eoin O'Malley
Brendan Macken
Tommy Bowe
Luke Fitzgerald
Fergus McFadden
David McSharry
Danny Barnes

HigginsJ

sydthebeat wrote: »

is it true that there is a maximum number of players that can be paid as internationals at any one time?

No idea. Would be bit ridiculous no?

I mean if you have a provincial contract would that not mean you are eligable to be selected.

porterbelly

Kyle Tonetti as another potential option?

Is 25 now but really kicked on last season with Connacht and looks a fine player. Quick, strong and a good passer

Tox56

porterbelly wrote: »

Kyle Tonetti as another potential option?

Is 25 now but really kicked on last season with Connacht and looks a fine player. Quick, strong and a good passer

Is he generally a 13 or a 12?

.ak

I think there is only 22 international contracts, stand to be corrected. The idea is only the 'starters' in any position are given contracts, with a few areas the exception.

unplayable

i like jj,o malley, cave, and madigan could actually make a good 12. barnes is just terrible. if he is ever near an ireland squad we are in dire straight

Monty Burnz

It looks to me like we've got a dozen very good players there - the question for me is whether any of them can step up to be great players.

Paulw

Earls and Fitzgerald should never play as centre. They're both wingers.

.ak

Paulw wrote: »

Earls and Fitzgerald should never play as centre. They're both wingers.

The difference between the two is Fitzgerald has always light up a midfield when he's had to (reluctantly) slot in there, where as Earls has just about 'done a job' when he plays there. He's never looked dangerous there for Munster and has never set the world alight for Ireland either. I think they're two completely different cases to be honest.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Paulw wrote: »

Earls and Fitzgerald should never play as centre. They're both wingers.

The difference between the two is Fitzgerald has always light up a midfield when he's had to (reluctantly) slot in there, where as Earls has just about 'done a job' when he plays there. He's never looked dangerous there for Munster and has never set the world alight for Ireland either. I think they're two completely different cases to be honest.

That's not true. He was the only Munster player to look good against Ospreys, was dangerous all night.

In fact he's looked good a few times at center this season. As long as he gets a run there rather than having his position chopped and changed.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's not true. He was the only Munster player to look good against Ospreys, was dangerous all night.

In fact he's looked good a few times at center this season. As long as he gets a run there rather than having his position chopped and changed.

I'll agree to disagree. I think he looked dangerous against the O's because he was the only player on the field who hadn't given up. It was easy to look good on that team.

Teferi

Earls is an out-and-out winger, Fitz is more of a utility back. He has generally been good in the centre when I've seen him play there.

.ak

Teferi wrote: »

Earls is an out-and-out winger, Fitz is more of a utility back. He has generally been good in the centre when I've seen him play there.

+1

I think both of them are better wingers than centres, but I think Fitz is more comfortable playing anywhere and not looking out of place than Earls.

Tim Robbins

Paulw wrote: »

Earls and Fitzgerald should never play as centre. They're both wingers.

I'd agree with this. Sometimes as a center you need to be able to just take a crash ball and stay on your feet for a few more seconds and set up a few more phases. You also need to be much better at passing, and timing passes to make space for your winger / full back.

I would consider both wingers as well.

Monty Burnz

Paulw wrote: »

Earls and Fitzgerald should never play as centre. They're both wingers.

I'm probably in a minority here, but I highly rate Fitz in the centre - given an extended run there I think he'd do a superb job in either role. He runs great lines, has good acceleration and evasion, tackles hard - perhaps his distribution is the only question mark.

.ak

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm probably in a minority here, but I highly rate Fitz in the centre - given an extended run there I think he'd do a superb job in either role. He runs great lines, has good acceleration and evasion, tackles hard - perhaps his distribution is the only question mark.

I thought that also until he filled in at 12 at the beginning of the season for Leinster. His offloads were sublime, and he looked far more like a 12 for the try vs the Cardiff blues in the quarter and I don't think any of us had any problem with his distribution for that try.

jm08

Teferi wrote: »

Earls is an out-and-out winger, Fitz is more of a utility back. He has generally been good in the centre when I've seen him play there.

Luke is a lot of things, but he is no fullback. I'd have Earls there far quicker.

Teferi

Yeah, fullback is definitely not his best position however much he favours it. He should stick to the centre or the wing. He is a lot like Earls in that regard - both players prefer a position that clearly isn't their best.

That said, there is little point in kicking to the back 3 of Leinster. Isa, Kearney and Fitz are all good under the high ball.

HigginsJ

IMO I thinks Earls best position is full-back. Anytime he plays there for Munster he looks very dangerous.

unplayable

HigginsJ wrote: »

IMO I thinks Earls best position is full-back. Anytime he plays there for Munster he looks very dangerous.

yeah remember him for ireland against england 2 years ago. prob his best ever game. pity kearney is such a god

Quint2010

Saw Eoin O'Malley today in town. Still on crutches...

DATABOY

12.jj
13.o malley

Promising to say the least.