Bitten by my dog- advice on next steps

mahamageehad

Hi all,
I apologize in advance for the long post, but I would really appreciate some advice.

So basically my dog attacked me yesterday. He bit my right forearm, completely unprovoked. Well, as far as my family is concerned "unprovoked"- I was hoping someone could shed some light on it as there must be a reason.

Firstly some history on the dog. We have the dog about 10 years. We took him in as a young pup, a stray. He's a mixed breed and we know nothing about his parents. He's an outdoor dog, not allowed inside except on the mat.

The dog loves being petted and is very sweet but never took to being lifted up, just doesn't like it. When he was younger he hated being walked, just never took to the lead and as we have a large yard and he gets plenty of exercise we just stopped trying as he hated it.

He was never snipped and is fairly territorial, constantly pi$$ing on everything and likes to "patrol" the border. The only issues we've ever had with him are him snapping at my younger sisters shoe when she stupidly tried to kick a bone he was chewing away, which is completely understandable and he was a lot younger, and he has a dislike of grey haired men (?) which we think was caused a few years ago by the oil men. We think one of the fückers kicked him (the smell of the oil van also makes him hide). But he's not aggressive to them, he just won't approach them and hides in his box or growls lowly from a distance. This dog barks at birds but runs away from them when they land in the yard, and even though he's constantly patrolling the yard and barking at birds/cats/other dogs etc if a stranger came in and he was petted he'd just follow them around waiting to be rubbed again!

I've been away from home for the last 5 years or so, returning at least 3 times a month. The minute I pull up in the car the dog starts whimpering and is always delighted to see me. I've been home a lot more in the past two weeks and the dog has always acted the same.

Ok so then the attack, he was sitting at the open door as normal and I was petting him, specifically his lower right back above the leg. He has a sore eye at the minute, bit of weeping but otherwise has been acting normal. Out of nowhere he latched onto my arm, growling and pulling like it was a playtoy he wanted to rip apart. I was hunched down to pet him and I jumped up immediately so his teeth didn't sink in and break the skin. I jumped up on a table and he growled again for a second before "snapping out of it" and cowering tail between legs over behind my fathers legs. Now the mother immediately wanted the dog put down and she's terrified of him, especially around the kids. The dog listens to her the most.



I know dogs don't attack without a reason so there's a few theories floating around- territory, he didn't recognise me in my glasses or maybe saw himself reflected in them, or else sunlight bounced off em and that hurt his bad eye. Another possibility is that this bad eye is part of a larger problem and I touched a sore spot on his back. Territorial stuff just seems unlikely to me, literally two minutes before that my younger sister was playing fetch with him and taking the ball out of his mouth, that's how comfortable we are with him, and he was in on his mat as usual when the doors open. There was no strangers there, just family and no-one else was being loud or doing anything to frighten him, or indeed even paying attention to him. I had been in the pet shop that day, maybe I smelled funny? Anyway basically these are just theories, guesswork, I'd love if anyone had any better ideas.

After the attack I talked the mother down into not getting rid of him, after all it's me he bit and afterwards after I jumped up he immediately calmed down. Like I said we've never had any issues with him before really and he didn't attempt to go after me again, or to attack anyone else. He simply quietly followed my dad out to the yard where he went immediately to his box and didn't come out for a while.

All of this I can forgive, something freaked him out and he attacked, but it's not regular and it's not a serious injury as you saw above. What worries me more is how he reacted to me today, I can't make heads nor tails of it.

This morning when I entered the kitchen (empty kitchen, alone) he noticed me and wagged his tail. I had glasses on then as well. However later when the family was home he was at the open door again. I walked in wearing the same clothes I had worn yesterday + glasses and he immediately shrunk down, tail between legs and went to his box and hid. No coaxing could get him out when I was there. This actually upset me more than the dog bitting me if I'm honest! After a while the mother managed to get him into the yard while I slowly approached the kitchen again ignoring him. I got as far as the table but as soon as I began to speak he went again. Even my mam saying my name when I wasn't there sent him away at the start! After a few more attempts he would come near the door when i was there but he never strayed far from mams legs. After about a half hour he came close enough to sniff me as long as I ignored him and after that he seemed ok with me, when I talked he didn't run and when I called him he came, he even took a treat I threw.

The thing is I know he's not comfortable with me now and I have no idea why, and no idea how to act around him. I dunno if he's afraid of me for some reason, and if he'll attack me again. He seems wary of me, almost as if I'd hit him. I didn't even scream when he jumped me it was so sudden, and he wasn't punished afterwards. I have had so much conflicting advice from everyone- get rid of the dog, if he's aggressive to me now he always will be, it was a one off and nothing happened before so he shouldn't be punished, he was asserting his dominance, he didn't like me looking at his sore eye, he thought I was a stranger, he was in pain it's not his fault, it must have been the glasses, if he attacks now he must be losing it with old age, etc.... Basically everyone is an "expert".

Basically what I want to know is can anyone see any reason that I can't that the dog bit me? Is he likely to do it again? What was the strange behaviour the next day about? What's the best way to move forward now?

Thanks a million in advance for any help!

Senna

I'm sure there is a reason why the dog reacted like this, but to me that's irrelevant to the decision you have to make and that is to get rid of the dog.
You mention children in your post, could you live with the consequences if the dog attached again, possibly seriously injuring someone else.
From the look of the picture, the dog latched onto you as hard as he could, even if you touched a wound on his leg, a family pet should never do that.

barbiegirl

Vet first to check him out physically. He's 10 so could quite easily be an issue. Then a good behaviourist. Hope you are both ok.

getz

older dogs[like people] can get grumpy all of us that have had lots of dogs have faced the same problem,one nip does not meen the dog is out of control,he needs to know this is not to be excepted,at the time the dog should have been told in a calm and firm way,as any experienced dog owner will tell you.

loveisdivine

Senna wrote: »

I'm sure there is a reason why the dog reacted like this, but to me that's irrelevant to the decision you have to make and that is to get rid of the dog.
You mention children in your post, could you live with the consequences if the dog attached again, possibly seriously injuring someone else.
From the look of the picture, the dog latched onto you as hard as he could, even if you touched a wound on his leg, a family pet should never do that.

So if the dog is in pain because you have hurt it (granted by accident/unknowingly) the dog is just supposed to sit there in pain and not react? Yeah right! The dog was either scared or in pain and it gave a warning bite, the only thing it can do. Some peoples expectations of dogs behaviour is unreal.

You do not automatically have to "get rid" of this dog OP. As people have pointed out before, if a cat scratches you or bites you, you dont automatically claim it has to be put down, yet this is peoples first response with a dog.

I dont have a theory for the behaviour of the dog on the second day. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

gizmo555

loveisdivine wrote: »

As people have pointed out before, if a cat scratches you or bites you, you dont automatically claim it has to be put down, yet this is peoples first response with a dog.

Not a very useful comparison - a dog can do vastly more damage than a cat. When did you last hear of a fatal cat attack?

Westernman

loveisdivine wrote: »

So if the dog is in pain because you have hurt it (granted by accident/unknowingly) the dog is just supposed to sit there in pain and not react? Yeah right! The dog was either scared or in pain and it gave a warning bite, the only thing it can do. Some peoples expectations of dogs behaviour is unreal.

You do not automatically have to "get rid" of this dog OP. As people have pointed out before, if a cat scratches you or bites you, you dont automatically claim it has to be put down, yet this is peoples first response with a dog.

I dont have a theory for the behaviour of the dog on the second day. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

I would have to agree with the above post and I think this animal has some underlining issue which is causing it discomfort or pain. The problem with his eye may be linked to this underlining issue so dont take it as isolated.

I know when im ill or sick I can be grumpy so imagine what its like to be unable to communicate.

andreac

You said the dog has a sore eye, that would mean that hes probably in pain or cannot see properly so that could be part of the reason why he reacted like that.

Jelly2

Westernman wrote: »

I would have to agree with the above post and I think this animal has some underlining issue which is causing it discomfort or pain. The problem with his eye may be linked to this underlining issue so dont take it as isolated.

I know when im ill or sick I can be grumpy so imagine what its like to be unable to communicate.

Hi OP, you have had this dog for many years, and from what you say his behaviour is completely out of character. To me, this suggests that there is something wrong with him - for example, he is getting old, you patted him above his hind leg on his lower back, so it could be that he is in pain with arthritis and that this is why he bit you. Or his eye is very sore, and he cannot see properly and this is disturbing his ability to deal with the 'outside world'. I'm not saying that either of these were definitely the cause of his biting, but you simply don't know at the moment, so you have to do everything you can to find out what was the cause and try to fix it. You seem like the kind of good owner who will do everything that you can to help your dog.:)
If I were you, I would have him thoroughly checked out by your vet, to rule out any physical reason for his biting.

planetX

Have I understood correctly - this dog has lived in a yard on his own for 10 years?
that would go a long way to explaining what happened.

DamagedTrax

i'd agree with having him checked out by a vet. this doesnt sound like aggression at all, definilty more of a reaction to something thats possibly medical.

Outkast_IRE

First stops a good vets and look for a thorough physical. With a dog 10 years old it does sound like a health issue to me.

And im sorry but you should of broke your dogs fear of going outside/being walked a long time ago, such activity is essential to their mental health.

mahamageehad

barbiegirl wrote: »

Vet first to check him out physically. He's 10 so could quite easily be an issue. Then a good behaviourist. Hope you are both ok.

The vet has been an issue as the local vet only opens at night on a Wednesday so I had to wait until tonight to take him anyway, but that was indeed the plan. Actually it was the plan all along, as altho he doesn't seem bothered by the eye it was starting to bother me.

Senna wrote: »

I'm sure there is a reason why the dog reacted like this, but to me that's irrelevant to the decision you have to make and that is to get rid of the dog.
You mention children in your post, could you live with the consequences if the dog attached again, possibly seriously injuring someone else.
From the look of the picture, the dog latched onto you as hard as he could, even if you touched a wound on his leg, a family pet should never do that.

Well according to "dog people" I know if he attacks again he's most likely to attach me as he sees me now as the weakest family member, and the little ones won't touch him now anyways without supervision. And as he's never attacked before I'm not too worried, it's the behaviour on the second day I'm more worried about.

getz wrote: »

older dogs[like people] can get grumpy all of us that have had lots of dogs have faced the same problem,one nip does not meen the dog is out of control,he needs to know this is not to be excepted,at the time the dog should have been told in a calm and firm way,as any experienced dog owner will tell you.

I don't think the dog is out of control, like I said just more trying to understand what's going on in his head. I don't know if you're saying that I reacted wrong because I'm not an experienced dog owner but after the attack he defo knew he did wrong, based on his behaviour, and I didn't want to give the attack any more attention as he was obviously upset himself after.

Bullseye1

OP is the dog ever walked and exercised?

Andy Magic

mahamageehad wrote: »

I've been away from home for the last 5 years or so, returning at least 3 times a month. The minute I pull up in the car the dog starts whimpering and is always delighted to see me. I've been home a lot more in the past two weeks and the dog has always acted the same.

Now the mother immediately wanted the dog put down and she's terrified of him, especially around the kids. The dog listens to her the most.


All of this I can forgive, something freaked him out and he attacked, but it's not regular and it's not a serious injury as you saw above. What worries me more is how he reacted to me today, I can't make heads nor tails of it.

This morning when I entered the kitchen (empty kitchen, alone) he noticed me and wagged his tail. I had glasses on then as well. However later when the family was home he was at the open door again. I walked in wearing the same clothes I had worn yesterday + glasses and he immediately shrunk down, tail between legs and went to his box and hid. No coaxing could get him out when I was there. This actually upset me more than the dog bitting me if I'm honest! After a while the mother managed to get him into the yard while I slowly approached the kitchen again ignoring him. I got as far as the table but as soon as I began to speak he went again. Even my mam saying my name when I wasn't there sent him away at the start! After a few more attempts he would come near the door when i was there but he never strayed far from mams legs. After about a half hour he came close enough to sniff me as long as I ignored him and after that he seemed ok with me, when I talked he didn't run and when I called him he came, he even took a treat I threw.

The thing is I know he's not comfortable with me now and I have no idea why, and no idea how to act around him. I dunno if he's afraid of me for some reason, and if he'll attack me again. He seems wary of me, almost as if I'd hit him. I didn't even scream when he jumped me it was so sudden, and he wasn't punished afterwards. I have had so much conflicting advice from everyone- get rid of the dog, if he's aggressive to me now he always will be, it was a one off and nothing happened before so he shouldn't be punished, he was asserting his dominance, he didn't like me looking at his sore eye, he thought I was a stranger, he was in pain it's not his fault, it must have been the glasses, if he attacks now he must be losing it with old age, etc.... Basically everyone is an "expert".

It seems to me by what you've provided above that he see's you as a threat (not just physically) to your Mother. He is guarding her as he see's himself as her dog and he's the favourite, he's also protecting her. It also seems he regards her as his owner and not you unfortunately

You need to change your approach to him, maybe next time the dog and your mother are in the room, enter with a biscuit for him, keep doing this for a good while and don't show him affection for a few visits at least.

Two things I wouldn't do that you've mentioned above, don't get him snipped even if it's recommended that will make him worse and don't get your mother to say your name to him while your not there, it's like saying cat to a dog who hates cats and knows what they are.

Hope that helps and you don't get him put down. People are too quick to mention the poor kids before every avenue is even explored.

bigneacy

planetX wrote: »

Have I understood correctly - this dog has lived in a yard on his own for 10 years?
that would go a long way to explaining what happened.

You very clearly do not understand correctly, either that or you are trying your utmost to stir.

The OP very clearly says the dog resides in a large yard belonging to the family home - is played with an interacted with as a part of the family, the kids play with him and he comes in and sits on the mat in the back room of the house on a regular basis. Where is the problem there?

I'm sorry to hear what happened OP - imo if the dog does not have an underlying correctable medical issue which caused him to attack seemingly unprovoked then unfortunately with kids in the mix you are going to need to go down the road that you don't want to. If the dog just decided out of the blue that you are some sort of threat what is to stop it from regarding one of the smaller kids as a threat?

mahamageehad

loveisdivine wrote: »

So if the dog is in pain because you have hurt it (granted by accident/unknowingly) the dog is just supposed to sit there in pain and not react? Yeah right! The dog was either scared or in pain and it gave a warning bite, the only thing it can do. Some peoples expectations of dogs behaviour is unreal.

You do not automatically have to "get rid" of this dog OP. As people have pointed out before, if a cat scratches you or bites you, you dont automatically claim it has to be put down, yet this is peoples first response with a dog.

I dont have a theory for the behaviour of the dog on the second day. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

I think it was more like a warning bite myself, after he was unlatched from the arm he didn't come back at me again, which seemed to indicate that he felt his point was gotten across/he felt out of danger or something. "Get rid" was "put down" in an immediate sense (mainly my mum panicking), this then became "rehome" (which I know is unlikely) and now I'm swinging towards keeping him. However no matter what I say I'm fighting against the advice of all the "experts" here and I'm just worried if I can't put up a good enough case something will happen him when I'm next gone.

planetX wrote: »

Have I understood correctly - this dog has lived in a yard on his own for 10 years?
that would go a long way to explaining what happened.

Ugh you see I knew this would come up and it was one of the reasons I almost didn't post here. No, we used to walk him all the time but he never liked it and it stressed him out. Nevertheless we continued, with treats, different locations, praise but he still hated it. I think it could be something to do with how he lived as a stray before we took him in. We only stopped bringing him outside in the past two years or so, and ensured he got enough exercise. He just takes a long time to get comfortable with an area, and when he started getting older we decided to let him be. But yeah I can totally see how that's related to him bitting once after two years. :rolleyes:

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

First stops a good vets and look for a thorough physical. With a dog 10 years old it does sound like a health issue to me.

And im sorry but you should of broke your dogs fear of going outside/being walked a long time ago, such activity is essential to their mental health.

As I've said vets is tonight so I should have more info on the health front soon.

So nobody really has any theory about the behaviour the next day? Maybe for some reason he has become frightened of me, or he knows what he did was wrong and he was afraid of retaliation? Maybe the same clothes triggered him into remembering what happened? Or maybe he thinks I want to hurt him?

planetX

mahamageehad wrote: »

Ugh you see I knew this would come up and it was one of the reasons I almost didn't post here. No, we used to walk him all the time but he never liked it and it stressed him out. Nevertheless we continued, with treats, different locations, praise but he still hated it. I think it could be something to do with how he lived as a stray before we took him in. We only stopped bringing him outside in the past two years or so, and ensured he got enough exercise. He just takes a long time to get comfortable with an area, and when he started getting older we decided to let him be. But yeah I can totally see how that's related to him bitting once after two years. :rolleyes:

Well you should have given that information in your first post!
You don't see how reading your post, which implied 10 years without walks, would hint at a dog with mental problems :rolleyes:

mahamageehad

Andy Magic wrote: »

It seems to me by what you've provided above that he see's you as a threat (not just physically) to your Mother. He is guarding her as he see's himself as her dog and he's the favourite, he's also protecting her. It also seems he regards her as his owner and not you unfortunately

You need to change your approach to him, maybe next time the dog and your mother are in the room, enter with a biscuit for him, keep doing this for a good while and don't show him affection for a few visits at least.

Two things I wouldn't do that you've mentioned above, don't get him snipped even if it's recommended that will make him worse and don't get your mother to say your name to him while your not there, it's like saying cat to a dog who hates cats and knows what they are.

Hope that helps and you don't get him put down. People are too quick to mention the poor kids before every avenue is even explored.

That seems sensible, hmm it all happened so fast I can't remember what was being said at the time but she is defo his "owner" to him, I meant more the family dog than mine even though he usually had more time for myself than for the other girls. He listens the most to her. Still afterwards he hid behind dads legs, not hers.

I can do the not show him affection alright, tbh I'm afraid to put my hand near him. You think that I should just throw the biscuit at him or leave it beside him on his mat?

Why do you recommend not getting him snipped? Just out of curiosity, it was never really an option as he's so old at this stage! Yeah that's true but to be fair the context she mentioned it was more in a normal voice talking to him "Shep, why are you afraid of Mahama?" so I dunno, I mean he knows my name as he does his own, still strange though. After his reaction she did stop, and hasn't done so since.

Thanks for taking the time to reply! As I've said it's much appreciated.

mattser

planetX wrote: »

Have I understood correctly - this dog has lived in a yard on his own for 10 years?
that would go a long way to explaining what happened.

+1

mahamageehad

planetX wrote: »

Well you should have given that information in your first post!
You don't see how reading your post, which implied 10 years without walks, would hint at a dog with mental problems :rolleyes:

Maybe so but I didn't see it as relevant in the first post, as nothing in his immediate situation has changed in the past two years and nothing would have implied mental problems at any stage, either to us or in the OP that I can see, and I did say he gets plenty of exercise.

OldNotWIse

planetX wrote: »

Have I understood correctly - this dog has lived in a yard on his own for 10 years?
that would go a long way to explaining what happened.

You said what I was thinking tbh. Confined to a yard, not allowed into the house. Not taken for walks.

I'd be majorly pissed...and would probably want to be put down.


Dogs are very rewarding but they require work. Saying "we dont take him for walks because he doesnt like the lead" is like saying, "I dont send my child to school because he doesn't like spelling and maths" - tough. You get them used to it and in the end, they will be better for it.

ppink

It sounds to me like the dog is a nervous wreck, maybe that is just the way I am reading the OP.
Do you think there is any chance he could have problems with his sight ? hope fully the vet can help, if not then I would be getting someone qualified to look at this dog and try to help or you could end up with a bad situation on your hands especially with younger kids in the house.

mahamageehad

ppink wrote: »

It sounds to me like the dog is a nervous wreck, maybe that is just the way I am reading the OP.
Do you think there is any chance he could have problems with his sight ? hope fully the vet can help, if not then I would be getting someone qualified to look at this dog and try to help or you could end up with a bad situation on your hands especially with younger kids in the house.

He is a nervous wreck since he bit, but before that he was happy and playful. Even now he's only strange with me, nervous in my presence since the incident. Dunno what could have caused him to see me as frightening but apparently he does. Someone qualified like a behaviouralist or do you mean the vet?

ppink

mahamageehad wrote: »

He is a nervous wreck since he bit, but before that he was happy and playful. Even now he's only strange with me, nervous in my presence since the incident. Dunno what could have caused him to see me as frightening but apparently he does. Someone qualified like a behaviouralist or do you mean the vet?

vet first behaviourist second if it was me (make sure you get a good qualified one not some cowboy who may make it worse!).

it is very strange but you did say he is also terrified of the oil men too?

mahamageehad

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You said what I was thinking tbh. Confined to a yard, not allowed into the house. Not taken for walks.

I'd be majorly pissed...and would probably want to be put down.


Dogs are very rewarding but they require work. Saying "we dont take him for walks because he doesnt like the lead" is like saying, "I dont send my child to school because he doesn't like spelling and maths" - tough. You get them used to it and in the end, they will be better for it.

Actually in my mind it's more like forcing vegetables down the throat of a child that doesn't like them. Sure you can justify it by saying "it's good for them" and "they'll learn to like it" and even "they will be better for it" but after a certain amount of time you just have to see the bigger picture, especially when even the sight of vegetables starts to stress the child out, and stop inflicting stuff they don't like on them. As long as they are getting their nutrition in other ways (i.e. getting sufficient exercise and interaction) and are healthy, isn't that the important thing?

Anyway you are being off topic and not addressing the issue at hand so if you just want to be judgmental but not helpful please don't post. The word "advice" is even written in the title.

getz

mahamageehad wrote: »

He is a nervous wreck since he bit, but before that he was happy and playful. Even now he's only strange with me, nervous in my presence since the incident. Dunno what could have caused him to see me as frightening but apparently he does. Someone qualified like a behaviouralist or do you mean the vet?

i am not trying to be insulting ,put it sounds to me that the dog is picking up your fear of him.clear your mind be calm smile and talk to him,dogs live in the present and soon forget the passed,

mahamageehad

ppink wrote: »

vet first behaviourist second if it was me (make sure you get a good qualified one not some cowboy who may make it worse!).

it is very strange but you did say he is also terrified of the oil men too?

Yeah he hides when he hears them coming, I think the smell tips him off. We think one of them kicked him a few years ago, he stayed in his box for a full day and when we brought him to the vet he said there was no damage but bruising. Unfortunately we hadn't seen the incident so there was nothing we could do. He just hides until they're gone. Dunno if terrified is the right word really, just frightened and won't approach them. I'll start looking into behaviourists tomorrow after I hear what the vet has to say tonight. But will that be any good? You know what they say about old dogs and new tricks!

i am not trying to be insulting ,put it sounds to me that the dog is picking up your fear of him.clear your mind be calm smile and talk to him,dogs live in the present and soon forget the passed,

Maybe, I have tried not to show any fear and have talked to him as usual and tried not to act differently but on the first occasion when he saw me and left I didn't even know he was in the room, so I dunno if that's the only reason although maybe it is aggravating it.

seamus

It's hard to explain the behaviour on the second day.

His actions are those of fear IMO. He's afraid of you, and as your mother is the one in charge, the dog goes to her for comfort from his fear.

It's possibly as simple as recall. Instantly after the incident the dog realised what he had done, he realised it was wrong and felt fear/shame/whatever about it. The smell of you and perhaps the sight of the same stuff you were wearing on the second day may bring up some emotional recall for the dog, and even though he may not actually remember the incident at all, he's associating you with "bad things" and showing fear whenever you or your name is mentioned.

Although the injury looks pretty bad and is no doubt sore, the fact that the skin wasn't broken, to me indicates that the intention here wasn't to actually "attack" you. Dog's teeth go quite readily through human skin without much effort from the dog, believe me.

I wouldn't like to guess at all as to why it happened. It's very difficult for the person who was attacked to identify the trigger (otherwise they wouldn't have been attacked), so it's usually next to impossible for anyone else to do so either, hence why people so often claim that a dog attacked "for no reason" or "without warning".

Medical is definitely the first thing worth checking out.

Andy Magic

mahamageehad wrote: »

I can do the not show him affection alright, tbh I'm afraid to put my hand near him. You think that I should just throw the biscuit at him or leave it beside him on his mat?

Why do you recommend not getting him snipped? Just out of curiosity, it was never really an option as he's so old at this stage! Yeah that's true but to be fair the context she mentioned it was more in a normal voice talking to him "Shep, why are you afraid of Mahama?" so I dunno, I mean he knows my name as he does his own, still strange though. After his reaction she did stop, and hasn't done so since.

Feed him the biscuit with your hand, don't show any fear while doing it either.

We got one of ours snipped after a similar incident (he went for a dog instead) it was advised by everyone, so we got him done. He was 10 times worse after it and now sounds trigger him. All is ok though as we just work around him with the couple of things that trigger him.

Just on what your mother said to the dog in bold above, when you say a dogs name you are complimenting it (in there mind!).

mahamageehad

seamus wrote: »

It's hard to explain the behaviour on the second day.

His actions are those of fear IMO. He's afraid of you, and as your mother is the one in charge, the dog goes to her for comfort from his fear.

It's possibly as simple as recall. Instantly after the incident the dog realised what he had done, he realised it was wrong and felt fear/shame/whatever about it. The smell of you and perhaps the sight of the same stuff you were wearing on the second day may bring up some emotional recall for the dog, and even though he may not actually remember the incident at all, he's associating you with "bad things" and showing fear whenever you or your name is mentioned.

Although the injury looks pretty bad and is no doubt sore, the fact that the skin wasn't broken, to me indicates that the intention here wasn't to actually "attack" you. Dog's teeth go quite readily through human skin without much effort from the dog, believe me.

I wouldn't like to guess at all as to why it happened. It's very difficult for the person who was attacked to identify the trigger (otherwise they wouldn't have been attacked), so it's usually next to impossible for anyone else to do so either, hence why people so often claim that a dog attacked "for no reason" or "without warning".

Medical is definitely the first thing worth checking out.

Thanks seamus, the recall thing is very interesting and could be very true. Would a dog forget something that quickly that had frightened or upset him enough to bite though? Yeah the fact that it didn't go through the skin is what really helped and as soon as I moved he calmed straight down, it was more like a warning bite. This one really does seem to be without warning though so I was kinda hoping other more experienced dog people may see something that I can't!

seamus

mahamageehad wrote: »

Would a dog forget something that quickly that had frightened or upset him enough to bite though?

Whether a dog has persistent recall of specific incidents, who knows, but they definitely have emotional recall, as this is the basis on which most training is done - associating things and people with feeling good.

Although most training requires repetition and reinforcement, a single very traumatic incident can (just like it does in humans) create an instant and persistent association for the dog, which doesn't go away unless you work on it.

Sorry, I only just saw the bit about the oil men, so that would actually be my first suspicion. If the dog is generally wary of strangers, and for a split second forget what was going on and thought you were a stranger right in his personal space, he could have panicked.

OldNotWIse

mahamageehad wrote: »

Actually in my mind it's more like forcing vegetables down the throat of a child that doesn't like them. Sure you can justify it by saying "it's good for them" and "they'll learn to like it" and even "they will be better for it" but after a certain amount of time you just have to see the bigger picture, especially when even the sight of vegetables starts to stress the child out, and stop inflicting stuff they don't like on them. As long as they are getting their nutrition in other ways (i.e. getting sufficient exercise and interaction) and are healthy, isn't that the important thing?

Anyway you are being off topic and not addressing the issue at hand so if you just want to be judgmental but not helpful please don't post. The word "advice" is even written in the title.

In your mind it may be, but your logic is flawed. The vegetable comparison doesn't really make sense...since its the lead he is averse to, not the walking. Make sense? All dogs require a period of getting used to the lead. To say "ah he doesnt like it, leave him there" is a cop out. Dogs dont get nutrition from exercise...they get nutrition from food - a point that I actually never mentioned, so I am not sure why you have brought that up.

The fact remains that if he is only seeing the same four walls day in day out, he may be frustrated. It's a dogs natural instinct to walk around and sniff out different scents etc. It's not simply about calorie intake and output - its about not having the animal bored or frustrated - both of which could potentially lead to the situation being presented now. So I think you will find I was addressing the question asked.

OldNotWIse

mahamageehad wrote: »

Yeah he hides when he hears them coming, I think the smell tips him off. We think one of them kicked him a few years ago, he stayed in his box for a full day and when we brought him to the vet he said there was no damage but bruising. Unfortunately we hadn't seen the incident so there was nothing we could do. He just hides until they're gone. Dunno if terrified is the right word really, just frightened and won't approach them. I'll start looking into behaviourists tomorrow after I hear what the vet has to say tonight. But will that be any good? You know what they say about old dogs and new tricks!


Maybe, I have tried not to show any fear and have talked to him as usual and tried not to act differently but on the first occasion when he saw me and left I didn't even know he was in the room, so I dunno if that's the only reason although maybe it is aggravating it.

You could very well be right there. Dogs do not easily forget being mis-treated, and especially if you did not know what he had been through before, there could be issues there. Our own dog is a recue job and she has certain things that will set her off (she doesn't act aggressive though, she submits) - like if you lift a garden rake or take off your belt. We dont know what was done to her before we had her.

I dont think its so much that they actually sit around neurosing about what happend to them, more that they live by association.

getz

OldNotWIse wrote: »

In your mind it may be, but your logic is flawed. The vegetable comparison doesn't really make sense...since its the lead he is averse to, not the walking. Make sense? All dogs require a period of getting used to the lead. To say "ah he doesnt like it, leave him there" is a cop out. Dogs dont get nutrition from exercise...they get nutrition from food - a point that I actually never mentioned, so I am not sure why you have brought that up.

The fact remains that if he is only seeing the same four walls day in day out, he may be frustrated. It's a dogs natural instinct to walk around and sniff out different scents etc. It's not simply about calorie intake and output - its about not having the animal bored or frustrated - both of which could potentially lead to the situation being presented now. So I think you will find I was addressing the question asked.

the sure way to get a dog to walk,is to bring in another dog,walking with another dog ,brings in the pack walk instinct,

Whispered

OP I think the advise about feeding the dog from your hand is a bit ill-advised at this stage. You have a fear of the dog now and the dog obviously has an issue with you. To try feed him could trigger another bite. If I were you I'd do nothing at all until you speak to a vet first, and a behaviourist second.

I suggest calling a behaviourist now, this morning before visiting the vet. Explain you are going to the vet but you want to know what the next step is if the vet does not find anything wrong. Behaviourists will sometimes need a vet to check for physical problems before they see a dog.

If you can choose someone who is a member of APDT Ireland you know you have someone who is properly qualified, anybody can call themselves a behaviourist. A poorly qualified one could make things worse.

IrishHomer

Hope you are not in the midlands like me none available in central Ireland

Whispered

IrishHomer wrote: »

Hop you are not in the midlands like me none available in central Ireland

There is an excellent behaviour counsellor who covers Dublin, Co.Wicklow, Co.Kildare, Co Carlow and Co.Wexford areas. As far as I know she does travel further, but it incurs a further cost.

andreac

I also know a very good dog trainer who lives in Mullingar so there are people out there.

getz

andreac wrote: »

I also know a very good dog trainer who lives in Mullingar so there are people out there.

if you have had the dog 10 years why would you now try and go for a dog trainer,an over reaction

boomerang

IrishHomer wrote: »

Hope you are not in the midlands like me none available in central Ireland

Alison Bush APDT is in Laois and she is excellent.

andreac

getz wrote: »

if you have had the dog 10 years why would you now try and go for a dog trainer,an over reaction

Sorry Getz, im bit confused, is that aimed at me?? My post was in reply to Irish Homers saying there was no one in the Midlands.

planetX

getz wrote: »

if you have had the dog 10 years why would you now try and go for a dog trainer,an over reaction

....because it bit

mikom

mahamageehad wrote: »

Bitten by my dog- advice on next steps

Big ones.... in the opposite direction.

gizmo555

boomerang wrote: »

Alison Bush APDT is in Laois and she is excellent.

But the OP's in Germany . . .

Whispered

gizmo555 wrote: »

But the OP's in Germany . . .

I think the recommendation is to the poster who apparently couldn't find someone in the midlands when he needed a behaviourist.

scudzilla

I honestly can't believe that people are saying take the animal to a behaviourist/therapist.

The OP was lucky that she pulled her arm away or it would have been 10 times worse, a small child will not be able to do that, imagine the damage it could cause, how would you live with yourself then??

IMO the dog should be put down

getz

andreac wrote: »

Sorry Getz, im bit confused, is that aimed at me?? My post was in reply to Irish Homers saying there was no one in the Midlands.

no andreac not at you ,i am trying to get over is the fact most dog owners will get bitten by their dog sometime or other,mainly by accident,but its not a big deal,a dog behaviorist will only tell you its not the dog, its the owner and tell you how to avoid it happening again,at the same time as taking your cash,i believe the poster was correct in asking other owners on this post in what to do,but some of the answers of having the dog put down[one bite in 10 years] to dog trainers/and animal behaviorists it well over the top,

seamus

IMO the dog should be put down

Imagine you killed a child with your car? How would you live with yourself?

IMO, you should sell your car.

That's how ridiculous the "always put down" argument is scudzilla. The Irish attitude to animal behaviour is incredibly infantile and backwards. On one hand we deny them any rights whatsoever, then on the other we apply moral standards to them which they are incapable of understanding, then punish them for breaking them.

I don't deny that there are many cases where a dog is too "far gone" to be trusted around children or inexperienced people.

But to claim that all dogs who have bitten are too much of a risk is just mind boggling.

planetX

getz wrote: »

no andreac not at you ,i am trying to get over is the fact most dog owners will get bitten by their dog sometime or other,mainly by accident,but its not a big deal,a dog behaviorist will only tell you its not the dog, its the owner and tell you how to avoid it happening again,at the same time as taking your cash,i believe the poster was correct in asking other owners on this post in what to do,but some of the answers of having the dog put down[one bite in 10 years] to dog trainers/and animal behaviorists it well over the top,

That's bad advice - most owners do not get bitten with the kind of bruising shown in the photo. A dog behaviourist will tell you what you are doing in the dogs daily life that are causing certain behaviours, and how to change them. Even without the bite, it sounds like some advice would be helpful for the dog. He might have another 5 or more years, and it's a shame not to take him out anywhere. You're not doing a fearful dog any favours by hiding him away in a yard.

gizmo555

seamus wrote: »

Imagine you killed a child with your car? How would you live with yourself?

IMO, you should sell your car.

This is even less sensible than the comparison with cats further up the thread. Can a car start itself up and run over a child without a driver at the wheel?