Garda fine question

Bambii_

( posting this on behalf of Robbie_998 )

was driving out of an estate last night in clondalkin onto a main road. came up to the yeild sign and slowed down and checked to the right only .(we were turning left)

there was plenty of room so we turned and on we went. still plenty of distance between the car behind us (which was a marked garda car and we already say)

but they pulled us over and checked everything on the car from tax, insurance, nct, tyres and lights. everything was perfect..(they even called the lads.on the radio to check the car reg. (was also asked for insurance cert which he doesn't usually carry but had It by chance.

the garda gave a €60 fine stating hw was driving.without due care and attention and also ran a stop sign (there was and still is no stop sign)

anyone have any idea where to go from here ?

garde also said he could be really bad and could have him and all his dominos friends done for all delivering with out insurance (which is also not true)

thanks all

corktina

the first bit , take photos of the Yield sign,, go and see the Superintendant at the barracks. The due care and attention bit you may have to swallow as its the Gards opinion....
the second bit, he is probably right as most insurances dont allow commercial use which delivering pizzas is.

Bambii_

corktina wrote: »

the first bit , take photos of the Yield sign,, go and see the Superintendant at the barracks. The due care and attention bit you may have to swallow as its the Gards opinion....
the second bit, he is probably right as most insurances dont allow commercial use which delivering pizzas is.

thanks will make sure to take pics.

as for delivering and insurance, dominos drivers are provided with desperate insurance from dominis for delivering it's through equity redstar in the UK.

dr.fuzzenstein

Just say Dominoes will blacklist his Garda station. He'll never bother you again.

Big Nasty

Was he egging on the punters and all that jazz?

hondasam

Did you pull out in front of the Garda car ?
Checking the reg is normal practice, how else are they going to know who owns the car?

Bambii_

hondasam wrote: »

Did you pull out in front of the Garda car ?
Checking the reg is normal practice, how else are they going to know who owns the car?

He pulled out onto the main road but it wasn't a last min move or anything. There was a good bit of distance between us and the Garda car. Plenty of room to pull out and get up to speed and still have a safe driving distance behind us.

No problems with checking the reg, just questions about his license at an old address, car at another address and living elsewhere. Garda didn't really car for that

Sids Not

Swallow it up.......theoretically , your friend was driving without insurance..private policies will not cover you "for hire or reward".......

Bambii_

Sids Not wrote: »

Swallow it up.......theoretically , your friend was driving without insurance..private policies will not cover you "for hire or reward".......

He wasn't even working and there's 2 different policy's.

Garda didn't care about that cos it was fine.

Read the first post......

padma

dominos drivers are insured under dominos

Fenian Army

Ireland's superheroes at their best, hassling people who have done no wrong while gangs of burglars ransack entire roads

Bambii_

padma wrote: »

dominos drivers are insured under dominos

Nice and simple and perfect. Thank you.

But sure this isint about insurance.

This is about rather or not he should pay the fine or if he wanted to go higher with it who would he go to without going to court ?

Big Nasty

Is this kinda like Pighead writing in the third person?

Just asking!

Mycroft H

Natasha_95 wrote: »

Nice and simple and perfect. Thank you.

But sure this isint about insurance.

This is about rather or not he should pay the fine or if he wanted to go higher with it who would he go to without going to court ?

Your word vs a Gardai in court. I can't see you winning.

Chin up and take the fine.

Bambii_

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Is this kinda like Pighead writing in the third person?

Just asking!

Nope . Rob isint posting just incase I get a ban ! :O

But still need advice as the Garda lied about both stop sign and insurance so maybe they would go against him with his boss at the station ?

Mycroft H

You would need to get the policy details off dominos. Standard personal insurance does not cover the carriage of goods for hire or reward.

Bambii_

BX 19 wrote: »

You would need to get the policy details off dominos. Standard personal insurance does not cover the carriage of goods for hire or reward.

Ye policy is there and is legit

Another driver damaged the front of robs car and they got the front bumper, headlights, grill and license plate replaced !

There's absolutely no problems at all with insurance here. Just this Garda incident.

It's robs week off so the insurance doesn't come into it. That garda actually saw the dominos hat on the back seat and brought it all up all by himself.

Natasha_95

Natasha_95 wrote: »

Ye policy is there and is legit

Another driver damaged the front of robs car and they got the front bumper, headlights, grill and license plate replaced !

There's absolutely no problems at all with insurance here. Just this Garda incident.

It's robs week off so the insurance doesn't come into it. That garda actually saw the dominos hat on the back seat and brought it all up all by himself.

Slightly confused - Did this happen in a personal vehicle, or a Domino's vehicle?

Bambii_

KKV wrote: »

Natasha_95 wrote: »

Ye policy is there and is legit

Another driver damaged the front of robs car and they got the front bumper, headlights, grill and license plate replaced !

There's absolutely no problems at all with insurance here. Just this Garda incident.

It's robs week off so the insurance doesn't come into it. That garda actually saw the dominos hat on the back seat and brought it all up all by himself.

Slightly confused - Did this happen in a personal vehicle, or a Domino's vehicle?

Personal, and he uses his own vehicle for deliveries.

padma

Natasha_95 wrote: »

Ye policy is there and is legit

Another driver damaged the front of robs car and they got the front bumper, headlights, grill and license plate replaced !

There's absolutely no problems at all with insurance here. Just this Garda incident.

It's robs week off so the insurance doesn't come into it. That garda actually saw the dominos hat on the back seat and brought it all up all by himself.

So, he wasn't working at the time and was under his own insurance too. This has nothing to do with Dominos insurance and the garda shouldn't have brought it up.

The way it works is when you are delivering for dominos in your own vehicle Dominos have a coverage third party for you under their policy. This is the type of insurance covered for you under the Dominos policy agreement with the insurance company. To avail of this insurance you need to have your own personal insurance policy. It was setup like this in order that dominos drivers are insured to carry goods for personal reward.

GavMan

You're in a no win situation, for the sake of 60 quid, pay it and move on

MugMugs

Robbie left, didn't he?

He wasn't banned.

Anyway, how did they know it was a vehicle used for Domino's delivery if he was off?

padma

apparently the garda saw the hat in the back seat

Big Nasty

MugMugs wrote: »

Robbie left, didn't he?

He wasn't banned.

Anyway, how did they know it was a vehicle used for Domino's delivery if he was off?

He had the seat half-ways reclined and was wearing his Dominoes cap at a jaunty angle! :pac:

Pat Mustard

Natasha_95 wrote: »

the garda gave a €60 fine stating hw was driving.without due care and attention and also ran a stop sign (there was and still is no stop sign)

anyone have any idea where to go from here ?

garde also said he could be really bad and could have him and all his dominos friends done for all delivering with out insurance (which is also not true)

thanks all

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

See link.

Driving without due care and attention (otherwise known as careless driving) is not dealt with by way of on the spot fine/fixed charge notice. It's a court appearance with 5 penalty points and a fine on conviction. Serious stuff.

So if the Garda said he was sending a fixed charge notice, then can we take it that it's in relation to failing to yield at a yield line? 2 penalty points + €80 fine. 4 points in court + fine.

Is that it?

MugMugs

padma wrote: »

apparently the garda saw the hat in the back seat

Sorry, I rush read that thread.

Wasn't Robbie an advocate of Dash Cams? Didn't the cam show anything up? Or was the angle too far right?

PS - Robbie posted a picture of your dairy air on here IIRC

Bambii_

The Mustard wrote: »

Natasha_95 wrote: »

the garda gave a €60 fine stating hw was driving.without due care and attention and also ran a stop sign (there was and still is no stop sign)

anyone have any idea where to go from here ?

garde also said he could be really bad and could have him and all his dominos friends done for all delivering with out insurance (which is also not true)

thanks all

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

See link.

Driving without due care and attention (otherwise known as careless driving) is not dealt with by way of on the spot fine/fixed charge notice. It's a court appearance with 5 penalty points and a fine on conviction. Serious stuff.

So if the Garda said he was sending a fixed charge notice, then can we take it that it's in relation to failing to yield at a yield line? 2 penalty points + €80 fine. 4 points in court + fine.

Is that it?

He said only €60 fine and no points definitly

Rob is more confused now

Bambii_

MugMugs wrote: »

padma wrote: »

apparently the garda saw the hat in the back seat

Sorry, I rush read that thread.

Wasn't Robbie an advocate of Dash Cams? Didn't the cam show anything up? Or was the angle too far right?

PS - Robbie posted a picture of your dairy air on here IIRC

Yes but it looks out the front and not the right window sadly.

It would just show him driving onto a road

MugMugs

padma wrote: »

apparently the garda saw the hat in the back seat

Natasha_95 wrote: »

Yes but it looks out the front and not the right window sadly.

It would just show him driving onto a road

And it doesn't give a good visual of the right on approach?

Bambii_

MugMugs wrote: »

padma wrote: »

apparently the garda saw the hat in the back seat

Natasha_95 wrote: »

Yes but it looks out the front and not the right window sadly.

It would just show him driving onto a road

And it doesn't give a good visual of the right on approach?

Well it only shows empty road ahead.

It's a right angle turn out of an estate on to a main road.

Pat Mustard

Natasha_95 wrote: »

He said only €60 fine and no points definitly

Rob is more confused now

He is going to have to see what comes in the post before anyone can advise him.

Bambii_

The Mustard wrote: »

Natasha_95 wrote: »

He said only €60 fine and no points definitly

Rob is more confused now

He is going to have to see what comes in the post before anyone can advise him.

What's the fine for running a stop sign? (that wasn't there but the guarda was adamant that it was there). Or what else could he have done him for that would result in a €60 fine?

TestTransmission

If he's getting a fine, he'll be getting points. Are you sure there wasn't something that happened before exiting that he had done and had caught the attention of the Gardai? It's not like they stop you for no reason if you're driving in a reasonable and sensible manner and you have everything up to date.

Bambii_

TestTransmission wrote: »

If he's getting a fine, he'll be getting points. Are you sure there wasn't something that happened before exiting that he had done and had caught the attention of the Gardai? It's not like they stop you for no reason if you're driving in a reasonable and sensible manner and you have everything up to date.

Absolutely nothing before it, if you go into google maps and look for Westbourne grove ( clondalkin dublin) and go as of you are heading out of the estate and turning left on the road. There is no stop sign, only a yield sign there could not of been anything more. When he was on the main road he was pulled over and was parked a few feet ahead of the entrance of the estate on the left, not as if he got a chance to do anything at all. The guarda said he ran a stop sign and was driving with out due care and attention (which he said he was doing him for, not the stop sign), which he said was a €60 fine. I was there in the car aswell so I heard it all.

dr.fuzzenstein

Natasha_95 wrote: »

What's the fine for running a stop sign? (that wasn't there but the guarda was adamant that it was there). Or what else could he have done him for that would result in a €60 fine?

Well, if the fine is for running a stop sign, you're doing well, since it will be quite obvious if there is a stop sign or not. He can't do you for robbing a bank that isn't there.
I doubt even a Gard will be thick and ignorant enough to try and do you for running a stop sign that doesn't exist.
He will probably try to come up with something else or not bother at all.
If he does try to do you for running a stop sign and there isn't one there you should have a pretty good case I'd say.;)

Pat Mustard

Natasha_95 wrote: »

What's the fine for running a stop sign? (that wasn't there but the guarda was adamant that it was there). Or what else could he have done him for that would result in a €60 fine?

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

It's the same penalty for a stop sign/line as a yield sign/line.

Regarding the €60 offences, there's an array of offences with a €60 penalty on the list.

djimi

The Mustard wrote: »

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

It's the same penalty for a stop sign/line as a yield sign/line.

Regarding the €60 offences, there's an array of offences with a €60 penalty on the list.

Its only 1 point and €60 fine for driving on the wrong side of the road and for driving on a footpath? :eek:

_Kaiser_

Sounds to me like yet another tale from the Keystone cops brigade we call our national police force.

Couldn't find anything wrong with the car or the OP's insurance/tax/license etc so throws out an arbitrary fine because in this piss-poor banana republic it's still good enough for the word of such an unprofessional, incompetent ("ran a stop sign" - too many US Police Stop shows methinks) "officer" to be taken without any sort of evidence, and then makes a few threats about "doing" the OP and his mates.

Personally I'd go get the photos and then raise hell with the Super and Ombudsman and Garda HQ - if only to make their lives a misery over it - but that's me. The reason this goes on is because most people just pay whatever is doled out and complain about it on places like here (not having a go at the OP, just pointing out that this is better directed at those who CAN do something about it - of course whether they WILL is a completely different matter).

No doubt all the AGS apologists will be along shortly to tell you to take your medicine and how tough a job the Gardai have etc but in my opinion that's no excuse for the all too often throwing weight around that too many of our Dirty Harry wannabes do be at.

Pat Mustard

Natasha_95 wrote: »

The guarda said he ran a stop sign and was driving with out due care and attention (which he said he was doing him for, not the stop sign), which he said was a €60 fine. I was there in the car aswell so I heard it all.

It could be that the Garda made a mistake on the evening in question, so there may not be any accurate way of guessing what will come in the post.

djimi

Best advice is to wait and see what comes in the post (if anything) and plan your next course of action from there. If they do try and claim that you ran a stop sign then have your day in court and have fun making the gob****e look like a fool!

Bambii_

The Mustard wrote: »

Natasha_95 wrote: »

What's the fine for running a stop sign? (that wasn't there but the guarda was adamant that it was there). Or what else could he have done him for that would result in a €60 fine?

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

It's the same penalty for a stop sign/line as a yield sign/line.

Regarding the €60 offences, there's an array of offences with a €60 penalty on the list.

Thanks for the list there.

He said €60 fine but no penalty points. Zero.

BRAIN FEEDs

djimi wrote: »

Best advice is to wait and see what comes in the post (if anything) and plan your next course of action from there. If they do try and claim that you ran a stop sign then have your day in court and have fun making the gob****e look like a fool!

thank you sir! this is the advice i would follow OP.

Pat Mustard

djimi wrote: »

Its only 1 point and €60 fine for driving on the wrong side of the road and for driving on a footpath? :eek:

If there was any traffic, there'd probably be a prosecution for careless or dangerous driving.

Pat Mustard

Natasha_95 wrote: »

He said €60 fine but no penalty points. Zero.

He also said it was for careless driving. That clearly doesn't add up.

I think the best advice is as the fella said earlier. See what comes in the post.

Bambii_

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Sounds to me like yet another tale from the Keystone cops brigade we call our national police force.

Couldn't find anything wrong with the car or the OP's insurance/tax/license etc so throws out an arbitrary fine because in this piss-poor banana republic it's still good enough for the word of such an unprofessional, incompetent ("ran a stop sign" - too many US Police Stop shows methinks) "officer" to be taken without any sort of evidence, and then makes a few threats about "doing" the OP and his mates.

Personally I'd go get the photos and then raise hell with the Super and Ombudsman and Garda HQ - if only to make their lives a misery over it - but that's me. The reason this goes on is because most people just pay whatever is doled out and complain about it on places like here (not having a go at the OP, just pointing out that this is better directed at those who CAN do something about it - of course whether they WILL is a completely different matter).

No doubt all the AGS apologists will be along shortly to tell you to take your medicine and how tough a job the Gardai have etc but in my opinion that's no excuse for the all too often throwing weight around that too many of our Dirty Harry wannabes do be at.

Agreed.

But he has no intention of paying any fine for this one.

Not being stuck up or anything but if he did do something wrong like speeding then he would be ok with it. He paid that and took the points no problem because he was wrong


But this is just taken the piss. There no reason for a fine or penalty points.

Maybe an official caution he could put up with but no way for this.

He actually got pissed off and just went home (back into Westbourne) after just leaving and that stupid Garda ruined our night

Bambii_

The Mustard wrote: »

Natasha_95 wrote: »

He said €60 fine but no penalty points. Zero.

He also said it was for careless driving. That clearly doesn't add up.

I think the best advice is as the fella said earlier. See what comes in the post.

Doesn't make sense at all

I will see what comes in the post if anything and go from there.

Thanks all. If anyone thinks of anything else give it a shout.

Cheers again

Bambii_

Hello all,

Robbie here.

Just got the fine in the post today and it is for "driving without reasonable consideration"

And its a €80 fine and 2 points.

Now that's completely off from what the Garda told me to a €60 fine only. Does that make this void ? (I did have someone with me to act as witness, OP)

Where can I go from here in the sense that not only is it untrue but the Garda also lied about the fine along with the other parts of threatening and so on ?

I have 28 days before the fine goes up so plenty of time to debate.

Thanks all

Pat Mustard

Bambii_ wrote: »

Hello all,

Robbie here.

Just got the fine in the post today and it is for "driving without reasonable consideration"

And its a €80 fine and 2 points.

Now that's completely off from what the Garda told me to a €60 fine only. Does that make this void ? (I did have someone with me to act as witness, OP)

Where can I go from here in the sense that not only is it untrue but the Garda also lied about the fine along with the other parts of threatening and so on ?

I have 28 days before the fine goes up so plenty of time to debate.

Thanks all

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1968/en/act/pub/0025/sec0049.html

This is the type of offence that can apply when a motorist drives through a puddle and splashes a pedestrian.

Considering the fact that if you are found guilty of the offence in court, you will get four penalty points, I would advise you to see a solicitor who frequently deals with District Court traffic offences.

Your solicitor can contact the garda to see what evidence he plans to give in support of the charge and/or take up documentation (if any).

Bambii_

The Mustard wrote: »

Bambii_ wrote: »

Hello all,

Robbie here.

Just got the fine in the post today and it is for "driving without reasonable consideration"

And its a €80 fine and 2 points.

Now that's completely off from what the Garda told me to a €60 fine only. Does that make this void ? (I did have someone with me to act as witness, OP)

Where can I go from here in the sense that not only is it untrue but the Garda also lied about the fine along with the other parts of threatening and so on ?

I have 28 days before the fine goes up so plenty of time to debate.

Thanks all

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1968/en/act/pub/0025/sec0049.html

This is the type of offence that can apply when a motorist drives through a puddle and splashes a pedestrian.

Considering the fact that if you are found guilty of the offence in court, you will get four penalty points, I would advise you to see a solicitor who frequently deals with District Court traffic offences.

Your solicitor can contact the garda to see what evidence he plans to give in support of the charge and/or take up documentation (if any).

Probably worth mentioning then there was another female Garda with him so. Witness maybe ?

With the cost of such solicitor is it really worth it ?

Or maybe the ombudsman would work here ?

corktina

Cheaper to pay the fine than see a solicitor, which just leaves the points, which arent the end of the world provided you dont have too many already.

The trouble is your version of events naturally favours your POV whereas the gard presumably thought you pulled out when he was too close to the junction.

Bambii_

corktina wrote: »

Cheaper to pay the fine than see a solicitor, which just leaves the points, which arent the end of the world provided you dont have too many already.

The trouble is your version of events naturally favours your POV whereas the gard presumably thought you pulled out when he was too close to the junction.

What about the fact the Garda lied about the type of offence I was being done for and the type of fine I was getting ?

Because the Garda lied about two very important facts here does that not void anything ?

Or are the gardai just allowed lie out of their hole to your face and send whatever they please ?

This offence he sent me doesn't match the 2 he mentioned (although near enough the same type of offence)