Headphones in races (Mod Post #121)

boucher

Hi,

I was doing a tri over the weekend. The run part was not on the open road but along a prom. In T2 I strapped on my ipod.
I admit I have gotten into a bad habit of not running without music.

During the race a spectator (not a marshall) signalled to take them off as I'd be disqualified. So I did and put the headphones down my tri-suit. Needless to say I wasn't disqualified.

What is the official line on headphones during running? I can understand if it was out on an open road but surely along a prom is ok?

I've done a few half marathons and have always seen dozens of other people using them without any trouble.

goalscoringhero

The official policy on headphones / ipods is usually stated in the race briefing document or the FAQ.
So far in every race I've taken part the use of headphones / ipods was explicitly forbidden.
Seeing others with their headphones plugged in doesn't give you a free ride to do the same, and is not a good basis to build an argument upon I reckon.

tunney

Triathlons in Ireland won't let you use earphones. You cannot hear instructions from marshals and other competitors - say you are in the way and obstructing a fellow competitor from passing? They call out, you cannot hear them - so what they do? Most likely shove you out of the way.

its not all about your race

boucher

tunney wrote: »

Triathlons in Ireland won't let you use earphones. You cannot hear instructions from marshals and other competitors - say you are in the way and obstructing a fellow competitor from passing? They call out, you cannot hear them - so what they do? Most likely shove you out of the way.

its not all about your race

That is a very fair point. Duly noted.

elvis jones

Not to mention emergency services needing to get though an area and your bouncing along with your headphones on unaware of them..............

gosuckonalemon

elvis jones wrote: »

Not to mention emergency services needing to get though an area and your bouncing along with your headphones on unaware of them..............

I think people are getting a little over excited here!

How high a volume do you think somebody will have their music at that they couldn't hear emergency services?

I've done all lengths of races from 10k to marathons and always have my headphones on. I find it gives me an extra boost, particularly towards the end.

However, I always have it at a volume that ensures I am fully aware of what's happening around me.

Exercise caution and cop on and they shouldn't be an issue. Not sure about tri's but for marathons I've never had a problem and have yet to be disqualified.

tunney

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

I think people are getting a little over excited here!

How high a volume do you think somebody will have their music at that they couldn't hear emergency services?

I've done all lengths of races from 10k to marathons and always have my headphones on. I find it gives me an extra boost, particularly towards the end.

However, I always have it at a volume that ensures I am fully aware of what's happening around me.

Exercise caution and cop on and they shouldn't be an issue. Not sure about tri's but for marathons I've never had a problem and have yet to be disqualified.

Think about straight running races is that, assuming everyone paces sounding, you're not going to be over taken by someone moving drastically faster than you. Imagine in a tri a very slow swimmer, who is an okay biker but a 32 minute 10ker - coming past a 45 minute waddler at quite a difference in speed.

elvis jones

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

I think people are getting a little over excited here!

How high a volume do you think somebody will have their music at that they couldn't hear emergency services?

I've done all lengths of races from 10k to marathons and always have my headphones on. I find it gives me an extra boost, particularly towards the end.

However, I always have it at a volume that ensures I am fully aware of what's happening around me.

Exercise caution and cop on and they shouldn't be an issue. Not sure about tri's but for marathons I've never had a problem and have yet to be disqualified.

Not at all.

You've had the volume set, not all do that.

Some road races do ban them for safety reasons and also i run a lot in the country with blind bends and the amount of fools listening to music running with no notion of cars coming around corners is just astounding.

Not to mention my own pet hate, fools/idiots/clowns/knobends wearing headphones when cycling:mad:

BTH

tunney wrote: »

Think about straight running races is that, assuming everyone paces sounding, you're not going to be over taken by someone moving drastically faster than you. Imagine in a tri a very slow swimmer, who is an okay biker but a 32 minute 10ker - coming past a 45 minute waddler at quite a difference in speed.

Or multi wave races where there are faster people in later waves overtaking slower people in earlier waves. Or races where the run route shares the road with the bike course.

RayCun

tunney wrote: »

Think about straight running races is that, assuming everyone paces sounding, you're not going to be over taken by someone moving drastically faster than you.

There are multi-lap courses, and events where multiple races are run simultaneously - 10k/half-marathon/marathon/relay etc - wher you'll get fast runners trying to overtake slow runners. And in Dublin marathon, you have wheelchair competitors who are slower on the uphills but much faster on the downhills.
Even if the difference in speeds is not huge, it's a pain in the arse trying to overtake someone in front of you who is wearing headphones and doesn't know you're there. And everyone thinks they have the volume low enough to know what's going on around them, but surprise, surprise, most of them are wrong.

boucher

tunney wrote: »

Think about straight running races is that, assuming everyone paces sounding, you're not going to be over taken by someone moving drastically faster than you. Imagine in a tri a very slow swimmer, who is an okay biker but a 32 minute 10ker - coming past a 45 minute waddler at quite a difference in speed.

I'm sorry but I don't get your point here.

Daz1214

elvis jones wrote: »

Not to mention my own pet hate, fools/idiots/clowns/knobends wearing headphones when cycling:mad:

again it depends on the volume settings

tunney

boucher wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't get your point here.

*Assuming single lap event*
Running race starts. Everyone goes off. After 5-10 minutes everything settles down and if someone is getting passed the difference in pace is somewhere around 5-10 seconds per km. Collisions would be slight and low impact

On the run leg a bad swimmer comes off at the back of the field but they happen to be a 30 minute ten km running. They'd be passing the 45 minute 10kms 1:30 per km faster. Going to end in tears if the slower runner doesn't/can't hear "on your left" or "coming through".

(Peter I just made this numbers off so off you go and eat some bratwurst )

gosuckonalemon

tunney wrote: »

*Assuming single lap event*
Running race starts. Everyone goes off. After 5-10 minutes everything settles down and if someone is getting passed the difference in pace is somewhere around 5-10 seconds per km. Collisions would be slight and low impact

On the run leg a bad swimmer comes off at the back of the field but they happen to be a 30 minute ten km running. They'd be passing the 45 minute 10kms 1:30 per km faster. Going to end in tears if the slower runner doesn't/can't hear "on your left" or "coming through".

(Peter I just made this numbers off so off you go and eat some bratwurst )

Why not just run around the runner instead of asking them to move out of your way?

RayCun

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

Why not just run around the runner instead of asking them to move out of your way?

It's not "telling them to move out of your way", it's "letting them know you're about to pass".
So they don't choose that moment to weave to one side, or spit, or wave at someone on the sidelines...

BTH

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

Why not just run around the runner instead of asking them to move out of your way?

Have you ever done Athy? Or Athlone? Or DCT? Valentia? Narrow roads/paths with runners going in both directions. Or a small narrow section of road marked off with bikes flying past beside you. All it takes is one oblivious clown listening to Snow Patrol or some such nonsense to cause an accident.

nerraw1111

The sound of fast approaching feet is a much better way to give you that extra boost at the end of race instead of Eye of the Tiger.

Of course, people with headphones never actually race

Oryx

Or you could be in tri Athy where passing out is tricky at the best of times. I passed a girl running there with headphones so loud I could hear the music. She hadn't a hope of hearing anything around her.

The simple fact is that running with headphones is more problematic than running without. Races usually ban them. Rather than moaning about that being unfair, people need to learn to run without music.

tunney

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

Have you ever done Athy? Or Athlone? Or DCT? Valentia? Narrow roads/paths with runners going in both directions. Or a small narrow section of road marked off with bikes flying past beside you. All it takes is one oblivious clown listening to Snow Patrol or some such nonsense to cause an accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ITrkEN6OQc

What you are potentially dealing with when a runner doesn't hear instructions.

(Yes I know in this particular case earphones were not involved, just trying to highlight the dangers)

ThisRegard

What was going on there ? Cyclists allowed to cycle go through transition at all, never mind at a speed like that ? If it wasn't the runner it could have been the person unracking their bike you can see parked there.

That's not the norm for tri's is it ?

longshank

elvis jones wrote: »

Not at all.

Not to mention my own pet hate, fools/idiots/clowns/knobends wearing headphones when cycling:mad:

your pet hate makes no sense....at about 20mph on a bike the wind noise is louder than any headphones

BTH

tunney wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ITrkEN6OQc

What you are potentially dealing with when a runner doesn't hear instructions.

(Yes I know in this particular case earphones were not involved, just trying to highlight the dangers)

Thats not the same at all. Sure it wasn't even Snow Patrol :rolleyes:

tunney

ThisRegard wrote: »

What was going on there ? Cyclists allowed to cycle go through transition at all, never mind at a speed like that ? If it wasn't the runner it could have been the person unracking their bike you can see parked there.

That's not the norm for tri's is it ?

ITU rules said that the guy in transition should have been removed from the race as he had been lapped.

BTH

ThisRegard wrote: »

What was going on there ? Cyclists allowed to cycle go through transition at all, never mind at a speed like that ? If it wasn't the runner it could have been the person unracking their bike you can see parked there.

That's not the norm for tri's is it ?

ITU Draft legal races usually involve multi-lap bike and runs where they race through transition like that. Makes it all more spectator friendly. As Tunney says, if you're lapped you should be pulled out.

peter kern

how did it work out when Roth did allow them around 2010?( not sure if they still do )

gosuckonalemon

What about using just one of the earphones, leaving the other free.

All I need is some kind of beat to help me along the way (live techno dj sets etc.)

I do agree thou that they should never be used on a bike.

Hanley

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

What about using just one of the earphones, leaving the other free.

All I need is some kind of beat to help me along the way (live techno dj sets etc.)

I do agree thou that they should never be used on a bike.

gosuckonalemon

Hanley wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm talking about!

RacoonQueen

RayCun wrote: »

There are multi-lap courses, and events where multiple races are run simultaneously - 10k/half-marathon/marathon/relay etc - wher you'll get fast runners trying to overtake slow runners. And in Dublin marathon, you have wheelchair competitors who are slower on the uphills but much faster on the downhills.
Even if the difference in speeds is not huge, it's a pain in the arse trying to overtake someone in front of you who is wearing headphones and doesn't know you're there. And everyone thinks they have the volume low enough to know what's going on around them, but surprise, surprise, most of them are wrong.

Oh come on. There are seriously gross exaggerations on here about how 'dangerous' wearing headphones is in races. On open roads, fair enough but for races on closed roads I have never had a headphone wearer cause me any issues definitely no more so than a non-headphone wearer.

I don't see what difference someone wearing headphones -v- someone not wearing headphones is when trying to overtake someone. Always seems like a bit of an 'elitist' jibe on here to be honest that headphone wearers aren't as good as non-headphone wearers.

I wear headphones a lot when training and wear them on the bike when in the city and even at full blast can hear the traffic etc around me. The issue with people who cause problems isn't the headphones it's that that person is ignorant anyway, they'd be the same with or without them. Plenty of non-headphone wearers in races are arseholes too.

lway

I'll just leave this here

elvis jones

Daz1214 wrote: »

again it depends on the volume settings

Sorry can't agree with that at all.

gosuckonalemon

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Oh come on. There are seriously gross exaggerations on here about how 'dangerous' wearing headphones is in races. On open roads, fair enough but for races on closed roads I have never had a headphone wearer cause me any issues definitely no more so than a non-headphone wearer.

I don't see what difference someone wearing headphones -v- someone not wearing headphones is when trying to overtake someone. Always seems like a bit of an 'elitist' jibe on here to be honest that headphone wearers aren't as good as non-headphone wearers.

I wear headphones a lot when training and wear them on the bike when in the city and even at full blast can hear the traffic etc around me. The issue with people who cause problems isn't the headphones it's that that person is ignorant anyway, they'd be the same with or without them. Plenty of non-headphone wearers in races are arseholes too.

+1

The voice of reason.

elvis jones

longshank wrote: »

your pet hate makes no sense....at about 20mph on a bike the wind noise is louder than any headphones

I'll tell that to my family member who killed a cyclist who came out in front of them wearing headphones. A personal reason not to like it, but a legit one all the same.

elvis jones

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Oh come on. There are seriously gross exaggerations on here about how 'dangerous' wearing headphones is in races. On open roads, fair enough but for races on closed roads I have never had a headphone wearer cause me any issues definitely no more so than a non-headphone wearer.

I don't see what difference someone wearing headphones -v- someone not wearing headphones is when trying to overtake someone. Always seems like a bit of an 'elitist' jibe on here to be honest that headphone wearers aren't as good as non-headphone wearers.

I wear headphones a lot when training and wear them on the bike when in the city and even at full blast can hear the traffic etc around me. The issue with people who cause problems isn't the headphones it's that that person is ignorant anyway, they'd be the same with or without them. Plenty of non-headphone wearers in races are arseholes too.

You need better headphones if you can still hear traffic at full volume.

bryangiggsy

U will have no problem wearing them in Athlone...sure u may as well with lines of plodders stretched out accross the road u may as well sit back and enjoy the scenery...athlone the womens mini marathon of triathlon

RayCun

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Oh come on. There are seriously gross exaggerations on here about how 'dangerous' wearing headphones is in races. On open roads, fair enough but for races on closed roads I have never had a headphone wearer cause me any issues definitely no more so than a non-headphone wearer.

I wouldn't know, they're all behind me :cool:


But seriously, I have seen the problems with wheelchairs in the marathon trying to pass people, and everyone hears them but the people wearing headphones. And people getting their names called out over the PA system, but not hearing because of their headphones. So it seems reasonable to assume that they wouldn't hear stewards shouting safety information either.

gosuckonalemon

RayCun wrote: »

I wouldn't know, they're all behind me :cool:


But seriously, I have seen the problems with wheelchairs in the marathon trying to pass people, and everyone hears them but the people wearing headphones. And people getting their names called out over the PA system, but not hearing because of their headphones. So it seems reasonable to assume that they wouldn't hear stewards shouting safety information either.

I think if you exercise cop on and dew caution it shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't wear them for the last km or 2 or coming up to a junction where stewards are guiding you etc.

MrCreosote

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I don't see what difference someone wearing headphones -v- someone not wearing headphones is when trying to overtake someone. Always seems like a bit of an 'elitist' jibe on here to be honest that headphone wearers aren't as good as non-headphone wearers.

In general, it's a fair assumption that someone who has the time to spend in transition putting on their headphones, and going Music>My faves>80s Power Ballads>REO Speedwagon isn't going to be too bothered about their time.

Headphone wearers are the lowest of the low. Worse than drafters. They take the event and spit in its face. If you want to have your own event and stay in your own little world then don't bother entering something if your going to wear headphones. Total insult to everybody else taking part.

gosuckonalemon

MrCreosote wrote: »

In general, it's a fair assumption that someone who has the time to spend in transition putting on their headphones, and going Music>My faves>80s Power Ballads>REO Speedwagon isn't going to be too bothered about their time.

Headphone wearers are the lowest of the low. Worse than drafters. They take the event and spit in its face. If you want to have your own event and stay in your own little world then don't bother entering something if your going to wear headphones. Total insult to everybody else taking part.

You do realise that you can have your music ready to go so all you actually do is press one single button??
It takes 4-5 seconds to strap an ipod to your arm. If you find it improves your time then you make up those seconds pretty easy.

"They take the event and spit in its face"....:rolleyes:

What's wrong with staying in your own little world? You are there to compete in the race and do your best, not make friends. I personally wouldn't care less if people are wearing headphones.

Also I am not a car or a motorbike on the road, if I want to pass someone out I simply run around them..I don't beep horns and put on indicators. I don't expect them to hear me coming up and move over to accommodate me.

Kurt Godel

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

I think if you exercise cop on and dew caution it shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't wear them for the last km or 2 or coming up to a junction where stewards are guiding you etc.

Hey, can I bring my dog with me for my Tri? He's a real sweetie. Rules say no dogs, but my question is, do the rules apply to me?

gosuckonalemon

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Hey, can I bring my dog with me for my Tri? He's a real sweetie. Rules say no dogs, but my question is, do the rules apply to me?

Do if you want, I'll be focused on my own race, not bothered bout you and your dog.

If the rules say no headphones, and I use them, and I am disqualified then too bad for me. I understand and accept that.

My point is, if someone is playing music in say, one ear are they really such a potential destructive force in a race?

Kurt Godel

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

Do if you want, I'll be focused on my own race, not bothered bout you and your dog.

If the rules say no headphones, and I use them, and I am disqualified then too bad for me. I understand and accept that.

My point is, if someone is playing music in say, one ear are they really such a potential destructive force in a race?

To answer your point, yeah they are, bunch of self-centered prats. I've been pushed against moving cars in a race, had water bottles discarded into my face, ran into the back of suddenly-stopping runners, been tripped, knocked, bumped, etc: all by headphone wearers (never happened from regular runners). They're zoned out from their surroundings, and are a danger to others on a course. I daresay each of these ipod zombies would say they were aware of their surroundings if you asked them too, thankfully any decent race director doesn't make headphones optional, so if you seriously care about racing, don't wear them. Do what you want in training, running to music is great at times.

gosuckonalemon

Kurt Godel wrote: »

To answer your point, yeah they are, bunch of self-centered prats. I've been pushed against moving cars in a race, had water bottles discarded into my face, ran into the back of suddenly-stopping runners, been tripped, knocked, bumped, etc: all by headphone wearers (never happened from regular runners). They're zoned out from their surroundings, and are a danger to others on a course. I daresay each of these ipod zombies would say they were aware of their surroundings if you asked them too, thankfully any decent race director doesn't make headphones optional, so if you seriously care about racing, don't wear them. Do what you want in training, running to music is great at times.

One can easily become that focused and zoned out without listening to music.

Also, the music doesn't have to be that loud that they hear nothing of their surroundings. I wear headphones but I understand and respect the importance of being aware of my surroundings and the people in them.

You are making sweeping assumptions and generalisations.

Everything you describe above...being tripped, knocked, bottles in face..easily done by non-headphone wearers too.

MrCreosote

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

Also, the music doesn't have to be that loud that they hear nothing of their surroundings. I wear headphones but I understand and respect the importance of being aware of my surroundings and the people in them.


Everything you describe above...being tripped, knocked, bottles in face..easily done by non-headphone wearers too.

Nice way of respecting the importance of being aware of things- by completely blocking out one of your senses.

All those things can be done by nonheadphone wearers, it's just that it far more likely if someone's wearing them.

Personally I think it's the height of selfishness.

gosuckonalemon

MrCreosote wrote: »

Nice way of respecting the importance of being aware of things- by completely blocking out one of your senses.

All those things can be done by nonheadphone wearers, it's just that it far more likely if someone's wearing them.

Personally I think it's the height of selfishness.

Who said anything about blocking out one of your senses. It's very easy to have music at a level to enable you to listen to it while hearing what is happening around you. Have you ever had the radio on while at work for example?

Same idea.

promethius

def in the no ipods in race camp.
respect for fellow competitors and awareness of what's going on around you.

event

MrCreosote wrote: »

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I don't see what difference someone wearing headphones -v- someone not wearing headphones is when trying to overtake someone. Always seems like a bit of an 'elitist' jibe on here to be honest that headphone wearers aren't as good as non-headphone wearers.

In general, it's a fair assumption that someone who has the time to spend in transition putting on their headphones, and going Music>My faves>80s Power Ballads>REO Speedwagon isn't going to be too bothered about their time.

Headphone wearers are the lowest of the low. Worse than drafters. They take the event and spit in its face. If you want to have your own event and stay in your own little world then don't bother entering something if your going to wear headphones. Total insult to everybody else taking part.

Wow!
Possibly the most elitist post I've ever seen on boards, well done.
seriously, its attitudes like that that will turn people off running

briggy

They would be dangerous if you were just running around thinking you were the Real Slim Shady and you can't hear anybody.

MrCreosote

event wrote: »

Wow!
Possibly the most elitist post I've ever seen on boards, well done.
seriously, its attitudes like that that will turn people off running

Thanks!

Although I never said anything about running. This being the triathlon forum, I was talking about tris. And unless you've got some underwater headphones, you're going to have to stop and take the time to consciously put on the ipod, headphone etc. So it's a complete and totally avoidable waste of time.

Running is different- because you've it on from the start it's not necessarily going to slow you down. It's just rude and obnoxious, and unnecessarily dangerous.

gosuckonalemon

MrCreosote wrote: »

Thanks!

Although I never said anything about running. This being the triathlon forum, I was talking about tris. And unless you've got some underwater headphones, you're going to have to stop and take the time to consciously put on the ipod, headphone etc. So it's a complete and totally avoidable waste of time.

Running is different- because you've it on from the start it's not necessarily going to slow you down. It's just rude and obnoxious, and unnecessarily dangerous.

Obviously it's only the running leg of a triathlon that they would be used in.

I'm not quite sure what kind of music player you have, but modern mp3s are not near as complicated as you would think. I had mine laid out so all I had to do was strap it to my arm and un-pause it. T2 was 53 seconds, I'm guessing I lost, at most 3 seconds, but I wasn't competing for a top 3 finish so didn't mind.

How is running different? Are you saying it's ok to wear headphones in a marathon but not the running leg of a tri??

And please explain what is so "obnoxious" about the whole situation?

I'm getting the impression that some evil earphone wearer whopped your ass in a tri before and you've never gotten over it.

MrCreosote

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

Obviously it's only the running leg of a triathlon that they would be used in.

I'm not quite sure what kind of music player you have, but modern mp3s are not near as complicated as you would think. I had mine laid out so all I had to do was strap it to my arm and un-pause it. T2 was 53 seconds, I'm guessing I lost, at most 3 seconds, but I wasn't competing for a top 3 finish so didn't mind.

How is running different? Are you saying it's ok to wear headphones in a marathon but not the running leg of a tri??

And please explain what is so "obnoxious" about the whole situation?

I'm getting the impression that some evil earphone wearer whopped your ass in a tri before and you've never gotten over it.

Running is different because the player is already on your arm when you start. I've never seen anyone wear one in a tri- probably because people respect the rules of the event (they're always expressly banned).

I've seen plenty of problems in running races caused by the random movement of headphone-wearing competitors.

It's obnoxious because you're basically putting your own comfort ahead of the other participants' safety and it's two-fingers to the people supporting or shouting encouragement from the side.