What are petrol heads going to do in a few years?

Del2005

Reading this thread got me thinking. Petrol heads are going to be doomed to driving tractors in a few years time since nearly all new cars these days are diesel and any decent petrols have huge motor tax.

Another issue is the amount of people who've brought the wrong type of car, like the OP's parents are being advised in the quoted post, and are driving diesels for short runs to the shops etc just storing up trouble. Also how many know not to turn the car off when they arrive at their destination to allow the turbo to spin down.

So in 2 or 3 years time all the 2nd hand cars on the market will be diesels and a large percentage of them will have potential expensive repairs required. Are we soon going to see a new trend of upping the mileage on cars? Who, with any knowledge of engines, will buy a low mileage 4 or 5 year old diesel?

Personally I don't do enough distance for a diesel and I don't want to buy new. But when I go to replace my current car, I buy decent older cars to keep not change every few years, I'll only have the option of a 2nd hand diesel or new electric/hybrid. Finding a 2nd hand petrol hybrid will be tough as no one is spending the extra bit for a car which would suit most drivers much better than a diesel.

I fear for the future of petrol heads, we're on the road to extinction.

Jimbob 83

We will continue to buy the cheap cars the daysul brigade overlook

Senna

Good, maybe in 15 years time i'll be able to afford a 2006 M5:D

There's still a few 08+ big petrol cars around and more will come in through the UK. I wont have to worry about this problem for many many years.

Bearcat

My 88 911 going back to London next week.......as a toy it just became unviable.....no one has a pot to pee in over here but there's plenty of buyers in the uk.

This country is seeing a hemorage of decent cars back to the uk. All that will be left here is the ZV brigade ,daysuls and jeeps as commercials.

I'm seriously thinking of getting a range rover v8 4.4 stripping it out to a commercial and enjoying it....don't do that much mileage.

eth0

There will be decent petrol cars around till the last drop of petrol is gone. If everybody buys Daysulls here we'll just have to import them from somewhere, which can be done.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

I fear for the future of petrol heads, we're on the road to extinction.

Bear in mind that this huge interest in diesel cars comes due to their low CO2 emissions meaning low motortax in Ireland.
But in plenty of other EU countries, where there isn't motortax forcing people to buy diesels, there are plenty of petrol cars available.
Maybe in the future, we will have to import second hand cars from the continent.

mfceiling

They'll be known as electric heads...

Leonard Hofstadter

There is always the UK....

In the UK the split is about 50:50 for petrol vs diesel, so there are still plenty of decent sized petrol cars being sold over there.

A lot of the newer model petrol engines are good on CO2 (tax band C or better) and they still have plenty of power, so while the task will be harder in years to come, it won't be impossible.

Also, as we saw in the last budget, the Government aren't going to allow the current situation continue for too much longer - soon enough band A and B cars will be barely any cheaper to tax than say band C or petrol cars on the old system, removing the current financial attractiveness of the fuel of the devil:)!

Del2005

Senna wrote: »

Good, maybe in 15 years time i'll be able to afford a 2006 M5:D

There's still a few 08+ big petrol cars around and more will come in through the UK. I wont have to worry about this problem for many many years.

eth0 wrote: »

There will be decent petrol cars around till the last drop of petrol is gone. If everybody buys Daysulls here we'll just have to import them from somewhere, which can be done.

CiniO wrote: »

Bear in mind that this huge interest in diesel cars comes due to their low CO2 emissions meaning low motortax in Ireland.
But in plenty of other EU countries, where there isn't motortax forcing people to buy diesels, there are plenty of petrol cars available.
Maybe in the future, we will have to import second hand cars from the continent.

captainspeed wrote: »

There is always the UK....

In the UK the split is about 50:50 for petrol vs diesel, so there are still plenty of decent sized petrol cars being sold over there.

A lot of the newer model petrol engines are good on CO2 (tax band C or better) and they still have plenty of power, so while the task will be harder in years to come, it won't be impossible.

Also, as we saw in the last budget, the Government aren't going to allow the current situation continue for too much longer - soon enough band A and B cars will be barely any cheaper to tax than say band C or petrol cars on the old system, removing the current financial attractiveness of the fuel of the devil:)!

I know we can import but with the way the Euro is gong it isn't going to be cheap and still any decent car is going to have high import and motor tax. There are plenty of threads here about it not being worth while going over to the UK to get cars now, so unless you want something special it never will.

They are talking about increasing the CO2 rates not just the A & B, though A & B will take a bigger hit does anyone believe with the state of the country they increase them all.

Atlantic Dawn

With the news from the WHO during the week that diesel exhaust fumes cause cancer the government can now stick similar taxes to tobacco on diesel, the petrol car may still be around for some time yet.

Gin77

One way of reducing the cost of fuel is to drive less or even have a day or 2 boycott on driving see how much the tax man will lose out then! Its typical of this goverment rising taxes is constricting the economy.:rolleyes:

btkm8unsl0w5r4

The thing that is being missed is that its not diesel per say that is sold its low tax and fuel efficient. Petrols are getting closer and closer to diesel running costs especially turbo petrols.

Also the government has copped on that people buying a 50k premium diesel can afford more than 150 euro tax. Diesel is more polluting in particulates into the atmosphere. There is also the fact that even the best diesel engine is still less refines and low revving than a good petrol engine.

Torque only makes you think your going fast........:)

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

Bear in mind that this huge interest in diesel cars comes due to their low CO2 emissions meaning low motortax in Ireland.
But in plenty of other EU countries, where there isn't motortax forcing people to buy diesels, there are plenty of petrol cars available.
Maybe in the future, we will have to import second hand cars from the continent.

lhd?

ShadowHearth

Even now a lot of petrolheads are going for older stuff anyway.

I am prety sure that we will see "twincam" syndrome spread on all old jap performance stuff. Few gti out there too.
I really hope by the time all that stuff becomes pure classics goverment will sort out tax system won't penalise petrol, just for being petrol. ( we can always dream )

It's really funny, folks nowadays see high mpg and perceived low running costs as something to boast about, many of these people actually regard themselves as petrol heads but still go diesel as they go with the common thinking. FAir enough for high mileage users but I know lots of people doing less than 10k miles per annum who go diesel yet reckon they are car mad.

naughtysmurf

Del2005 wrote: »

Also how many know not to turn the car off when they arrive at their destination to allow the turbo to spin down.

If this is true I'd say plenty don't know, I didn't, what is this all about

Anan1

Del2005 wrote: »

Are we soon going to see a new trend of upping the mileage on cars? Who, with any knowledge of engines, will buy a low mileage 4 or 5 year old diesel?

Low mileage will always command a premium. It doesn't necessarily equate to short runs, as not everyone uses their car every day.

dr.fuzzenstein

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

With the news from the WHO during the week that diesel exhaust fumes cause cancer the government can now stick similar taxes to tobacco on diesel, the petrol car may still be around for some time yet.

I don't think that there was anything new or surprising in that report, it just confirmed what everyone already knew.
Bit of "Dog bites man" type news there, really.
Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if the government said "Wow, we never knew that! You evil diesel drivers! Here's a new evil, cancer causing bastard tax on your devil fuel, how dare you drive a diesel!"
The Irish approach is never to find an intelligent solution to a problem that is tailored to everyone's circumstances, that would mean some civil servants would actually have to work and use their brains, can't be havin' dat now.
So it's the one-size-fits-all Irish solution to an Irish problem: Just tax the bastards, to fcuk. Case closed, problem solved, time for another tea break, off to cash my check which I don't get in any case, looking forward to my pension.

Anan1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't think that there was anything new or surprising in that report, it just confirmed what everyone already knew.
Bit of "Dog bites man" type news there, really.
Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if the government said "Wow, we never knew that! You evil diesel drivers! Here's a new evil, cancer causing bastard tax on your devil fuel, how dare you drive a diesel!"
The Irish approach is never to find an intelligent solution to a problem that is tailored to everyone's circumstances, that would mean some civil servants would actually have to work and use their brains, can't be havin' dat now.
So it's the one-size-fits-all Irish solution to an Irish problem: Just tax the bastards, to fcuk. Case closed, problem solved, time for another tea break, off to cash my check which I don't get in any case, looking forward to my pension.

I've asked a couple of times whether it's the particulates that are carcinogenic and nobody seems able to answer. I suspect that the studies are based on diesels without DPFs.

MetzgerMeister

If anything, this should be an opportunity for petrol heads to look after their cars as in keep them clean, serviced etc as much as possible in order for them to be a viable option for future buyers.

dr.fuzzenstein

Anan1 wrote: »

I've asked a couple of times whether it's the particulates that are carcinogenic and nobody seems able to answer. I suspect that the studies are based on diesels without DPFs.

It doesn't seem clear from what I heard. Would be nice if there where studies comparing one with the other.

vectra

RoverJames wrote: »

It's really funny, folks nowadays see high mpg and perceived low running costs as something to boast about, many of these people actually regard themselves as petrol heads but still go diesel as they go with the common thinking. FAir enough for high mileage users but I know lots of people doing less than 10k miles per annum who go diesel yet reckon they are car mad.

I would be a "Petrol Head" as you put it if it were cheaper for me to buy a petrol.
I as you probably know am ordering a new car this week. Yes,, Another diesel. Give me 2 good reasons why I should buy a petrol instead as I do small miles.

MetzgerMeister

vectra wrote: »

I would be a "Petrol Head" as you put it if it were cheaper for me to buy a petrol.
I as you probably know am ordering a new car this week. Yes,, Another diesel. Give me 2 good reasons why I should buy a petrol instead as I do small miles.

From what others have said on here in the past, diesel cars have a premium above petrol as they're "all the rage" these days.

A diesel car requires more servicing and parts are apparently more expensive.

It takes longer to see the savings.

Petrols are a much better option if you do small miles. You'll only see savings if you do a lot of motorway miles with diesel.

Small miles = petrol, big miles = diesel.

Daniel S

Hydrogen. That is all. It's even better than petrol if you can run it in an internal combustion engine instead of fuel cells and electric motors. More torque and similar sound to petrol. Actually, since it burns quicker than petrol, does that mean we could get higher rpms?

Anan1

Daniel S wrote: »

Hydrogen. That is all. It's even better than petrol if you can run it in an internal combustion engine instead of fuel cells and electric motors. More torque and similar sound to petrol. Actually, since it burns quicker than petrol, does that mean we could get higher rpms?

Burning anything is intrinsically inefficient, as it creates large amounts of waste heat.

Daniel S

Anan1 wrote: »

Burning anything is intrinsically inefficient, as it creates large amounts of waste heat.

Yes, but it's practically infinite and I think people would like to replace petrol with a similar fuel. Imagine being able to go back to 6 litre V12's and have little effect on the environment.

September1

I think in time general public would learn real cost of diesels, so they would lose value and demand for petrol cars would not go down to zero. After years of stagnation, we are getting quite a big of development in petrol technology, turbo is more and more popular and is catching up on emissions.

Jammy Donut

Iv already started my collection.... Which I don't plan on ever selling.

So once there's petrol available, I'll keep them on the road.

Anan1

Daniel S wrote: »

Yes, but it's practically infinite and I think people would like to replace petrol with a similar fuel. Imagine being able to go back to 6 litre V12's and have little effect on the environment.

Hydrogen is only infinite if you have infinite amounts of energy to produce it. Where is this energy going to come from?

September1

Anan1 wrote: »

Hydrogen is only infinite if you have infinite amounts of energy to produce it. Where is this energy going to come from?

You put water into car, then get one of those(http://steorn.com/orbo/) to power electrolysis and your set for life.

MetzgerMeister

September1 wrote: »

You put water into car, then get one of those(http://steorn.com/orbo/) to power electrolysis and your set for life.

If that is a viable alternative, we'll have the government increases the price of water via the metres installed in houses

MrDerp

I've pretty much resigned myself, at this point, to importing from the UK for my next car.

Though I may, if the right car is there, buy another 07/08 petrol (I drive an 07 petrol right now) if it's really nice and the price is right.

C.D.

September1 wrote: »

You put water into car, then get one of those(http://steorn.com/orbo/) to power electrolysis and your set for life.

Oh dear, won't even bother trying to discuss this. Con. Defies the laws of physics.

Anan1

September1 wrote: »

You put water into car, then get one of those(http://steorn.com/orbo/) to power electrolysis and your set for life.

How does that work?

dr.fuzzenstein

September1 wrote: »

You put water into car, then get one of those(http://steorn.com/orbo/) to power electrolysis and your set for life.

A million bucks and my left nut says it's bollocks.

ShadowHearth

vectra wrote: »

I would be a "Petrol Head" as you put it if it were cheaper for me to buy a petrol.
I as you probably know am ordering a new car this week. Yes,, Another diesel. Give me 2 good reasons why I should buy a petrol instead as I do small miles.

Diesel octavia with a few shiny stickers and badges is not a sports car.

* runs for his life!!!!

Alanstrainor

September1 wrote: »

You put water into car, then get one of those(http://steorn.com/orbo/) to power electrolysis and your set for life.

Ah steorn...ignoring the laws of physics for over a decade now...

September1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

A million bucks and my left nut says it's bollocks.

Wikipedia wrote:

The company's investment history shows several share allotments for cash between August 2000 and October 2005,[12] the investments totalling €3 million.[2] In 2006, Steorn secured €8.1 million in loans from a range of investors in order to continue their research, and these funds were also converted into shares.[13]

It seems that some people were not so smart, I hope they kept nut at least.:D

Seriously though, if there is a free energy then we can convert many items into petrol, as now it makes only sense with oil, with exception of one plant in SA that uses coal.

Dr Turk Turkelton

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Diesel octavia with a few shiny stickers and badges is not a sports car.

* runs for his life!!!!

At last someone says it!

Leonard Hofstadter

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

From what others have said on here in the past, diesel cars have a premium above petrol as they're "all the rage" these days.

A diesel car requires more servicing and parts are apparently more expensive.

It takes longer to see the savings.

Petrols are a much better option if you do small miles. You'll only see savings if you do a lot of motorway miles with diesel.

Small miles = petrol, big miles = diesel.

Never mind the running costs, what about the subjective things like superior throttle response, the ability to rev out the engine when you want to have fun and the sound that a petrol engine makes that add to the joy of driving a petrol engined car?

Petrol engined cars theoretically at least should handle better than their diesel equivalents because there is less weight at the front (a petrol engine is lighter than its diesel equivalent).

vectra

vectra wrote: »

I would be a "Petrol Head" as you put it if it were cheaper for me to buy a petrol.
I as you probably know am ordering a new car this week. Yes,, Another diesel. Give me 2 good reasons why I should buy a petrol instead as I do small miles.

I used the term petrol head as its the term in the thread topic. Whatever reasons anyone gives for going petrol over diesel you'll just come back with cost and diesel is cheaper bla bla. Can you not think of any advantages a petrol version would have over the diesel? cost aside?
I had no idea you were ordering a new car this week btw.

Daniel S

Anan1 wrote: »

Hydrogen is only infinite if you have infinite amounts of energy to produce it. Where is this energy going to come from?

Wind farm
Electrolysis
Compress into cryo tanks
????
Profit!

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Anan1

Daniel S wrote: »

Wind farm
Electrolysis
Compress into cryo tanks
????
Profit!

That's not anywhere close to either infinite or free hydrogen. What are the relative efficiencies of hydrogen fuel cells powering electric motors and burning the hydrogen in an ICE? Not good for the ICE, i'll wager.

Daniel S

Anan1 wrote: »

That's not anywhere close to either infinite or free hydrogen. What are the relative efficiencies of hydrogen fuel cells powering electric motors and burning the hydrogen in an ICE? Not good for the ICE, i'll wager.

I'm sure the efficiency is shíte, but it sounds better and behaves more like a petrol car.

Don't take me too seriously...

Tea 1000

RoverJames wrote: »

I used the term petrol head as its the term in the thread topic. Whatever reasons anyone gives for going petrol over diesel you'll just come back with cost and diesel is cheaper bla bla. Can you not think of any advantages a petrol version would have over the diesel? cost aside?
I had no idea you were ordering a new car this week btw.

There is a practical example that I would carry out if I had the money to prove why diesel is only viable where cost is a concern... it is this:
Take one Mazda MX5. Put a diesel engine in it. Take for a drive and marvel how a once great car can be bollixed up good and proper with such a simple change!
Therefore, Petrol is always the preferred choice, where nothing else is a factor.
However, it should be noted that VW succeeded in Ireland at least at convincing people otherwise, by producing some of the shíttiest petrol engines for years along side their diesels.

Tea 1000

Anan1 wrote: »

That's not anywhere close to either infinite or free hydrogen. What are the relative efficiencies of hydrogen fuel cells powering electric motors and burning the hydrogen in an ICE? Not good for the ICE, i'll wager.

Yes, but petrol will eventually run out, and for many years before it does, will be prohibitively expensive. So Hydrogen might be our most fun renewable alternative! Efficiency shmificiency...The least efficient machines in existence are the most fun!

Matt Simis

Gas, via LPG or CNG is just sitting across Europe, in "mind blowingly huge quantities" awaiting tapping. We could use it for centuries after petrol gets scarce.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/17/us-britain-shale-reserves-idUSBRE83G0LE20120417

UK offshore reserves of shale gas could exceed one thousand trillion cubic feet (tcf), compared to current rates of UK gas consumption of 3.5 tcf a year, or five times the latest estimate of onshore shale gas of 200 trillion cubic feet.

Reserves of 200 tcf would put the UK in the top 20 countries with the highest shale reserves, alongside Brazil, and 1,000 tcf would put Britain in the same league as estimates for China, the United States and Argentina, top dogs in global shale potential.

EUROPEAN OFFSHORE SHALE BOOM?

Petroleum engineers say that shale oil and gas reserves of vast potential stretch over different formations across Europe.

"We have potentially huge volumes present in the subsurface - the volumes are mind-blowingly big," Melvyn Giles, global head of unconventional gas and light tight oil at Shell, said of Europe's unconventional gas resources.

So the UK alone has over 100 TCF of gas yes consumes 3.5 a year. Scientitions says this is nearly 300years of supply. In the UK alone, who knows what else is out there.

fasttalkerchat

I think we should have the New Zeland car tax system. Road tax is free for petrol but expensive for diesel. No duty on diesel but a bit on petrol.

This means that only people doing high mileage go for diesel (what they are designed for) and everyone else goes for new more efficient petrol cars. It removes the need for red diesel since normal diesel is about 75p per litre. No need to pay out if you rarely use a car so it makes sense to use public transport sometimes.

dr.fuzzenstein

Anan1 wrote: »

That's not anywhere close to either infinite or free hydrogen. What are the relative efficiencies of hydrogen fuel cells powering electric motors and burning the hydrogen in an ICE? Not good for the ICE, i'll wager.

Hydrogen in ICE will at best be a marginal part of the market. It would just be silly and probably very expensive.
The world will eventually have to switch over to a hydrogen based energy model, utilizing fuel cells to a far greater extend.
The only other way is nuclear fusion and I hope this will come to something.
We'd have to keep in mind that serious research into better ways of producing hydrogen have only started recently, so who knows how things will look in 20 years time?
Right now research is being conducted to split H2O into hydrogen and oxygen using new technologies.
I am hoping for a future where people will point at models of 20th century power plants and giggle "Can you imagine they used to shovel coal into a big fire that boiled water which turned a big wheel? How quaint!"
And the same for ICEs, imagine squirting a drop of petrol into a canon and igniting it with some funny electrical sparking thingy so the piston will be propelled down by the explosion? That's just so 19th century!
Cars will be looked at the same way we will think of the horse drawn carriage, nice and quaint, but hardly suitable for every day transport.
Ditto the coal fired power station, it will be like looking at a windmill from the 16th century

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biohydrogen_reactor
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110414073549.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/28/politics/28hydrogen.html
http://www.volker-quaschning.de/downloads/hypothesis1.pdf

Just some interesting links, I particularly like the last one.

dr.fuzzenstein

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Take one Mazda MX5. Put a diesel engine in it. Take for a drive and marvel how a once great car can be bollixed up good and proper with such a simple change!

That is so fcuked up I'm almost tempted!:p