How to get cycling lanes in my small town. (wexford)

Donelson

Is the county council the right place to start? Should they have a map or a plan, is it part of the local area plan? Or should I start with my local counselor/td
The main reason I would like to have cycle lanes is to remind driver that cyclist are out there and help to improve the safety of cycling In town.
Any practical advice would be much appreciated!

kuro_man

be careful what you wish for! :eek:

Donelson

Ah now, I'm only looking for the painted on variety, not the big fancy ones ya see in the big smoke.

rp

Cycle lanes pose a significant danger to cyclists: they force you into the least safe position in the road, especially around junctions; cars will pass closer if there is a painted line; and at the same time, they do no provide any protection. International stats show something like a 30% increase in death and injury compared to shared road use. So, be careful what you wish for...

Squidgy Black

It might not be possible to get cycling lanes, the main reason there's painted on lanes in Dublin is because they're incorporated into the bus lanes. The majority of roads in smaller towns are only designed to fit one lane of traffic each way so there won't be enough space.

Tl;dr you'd need to have bus lanes for it to work.

thebouldwhacker

I disagree about the bus lane argument and while I do understand the anti cycle lane argument (personally I see them as puncture lanes) I do see the advantage of them.

OP I might suggest seeking out similar roads on your bike and see how they work and if you think they would be a positive addition to your road go for it, we do live in a democracy after all.

First find out who owns the road, NRA or CC then check their sites for protocols.
I reckon unless there is an existing plan there maybe funding issues though.

Enjoy the fight

Donelson

I will re-exam the safety angle, but I do struggle to believed it could be less safe then what we have today, anybody I talk to who could but doesn't cycle it's down to safety.
One thing that bugs me is the one way system in the town counter flow cycle lanes would make a huge difference! And that's plenty of room.
I wood think there is no money in the budget, but I'll be looking to the next plan or the plan after that, I'll be here for a while.

rp

Donelson wrote: »

I will re-exam the safety angle, but I do struggle to believed it could be less safe then what we have today, anybody I talk to who could but doesn't cycle it's down to safety.

yeah, there is a common view (misconception, imho) that cycle lanes increase safety, and they do, when built right: but the Netherlands seems to be the only place where such lanes exist - and even there, cyclist and cars are not segregated in the city centre, only on faster routes.
Here is a good, balanced overview.

michaelm

Based on my own experience of tackling this in my own area I will briefly suggest the following:

1. Towns with mayors will have their new mayors installed at the end of this month. This role is effectively chairperson of the town council and very often put together a programme of issues they would like to tackle - would be really worth talking to this person, and your timing is perfect!

2. Do your own research, pick an "easy win" and make this the first goal, once a start is made it is easier to take the next, possibly bigger, step.

This is the route we went down 3 years ago and we have now established the town on Nenagh as a cycling hub with 3 fully signed and mapped cycling routes, a growing number of cycle paths, (separate from the road) and last April we had our own cycle race The Visit Nenagh Classic.

Start small - but keep going

OP - Feel free to contact me privately for further info

Darkglasses

I'm another Wexford cyclist, and I'm sorry to say I won't be supporting this call for cycle lanes at all! And definitely not the painted-on variety.

1. Most of the roads around Wexford town are very narrow, I can imagine cars will certainly be inching into the bike lanes, and it won't encourage drivers to give a safe passing distance. I would be concerned that drivers will get a false sense of security to only pass a cyclist with the width of a painted line.

2. There's so much on-street parking in Wexford, they will become parking zones, just like they do in Dublin.

3. The current cycle paths in the town (I can think of only two, at the round-abouts at Killeens and the ones near the hospital) are not usable. I don't trust whoever's job it is to make safe cycle lanes.

4. They may not be conducive to a good attitude from motorists. I can foresee a growth in "Get in the ****ing cycle lane!" attitudes.

Off-road cycle routes I would be in favour of, like the Mayo greenway. But not on-road ones. I first cycled in Dublin, so I was well-used to cycle lanes to begin with. Now, having moved to a place where they are very scarce, I find my cycling experience much improved.

Lumen

Is the town Wexford, or in Wexford?

michaelm

I would agree with all of the above and not knowing Wexford find it difficult to be specific. I would suggest however that a few people get together and have an indepth look at all possibilities and see if it is possible to identify any areas where paths, separate from traffic, could be located. We simply have to accept that there are many streets in Irish towns where separate lanes could never be installed but there may be opportunities on the outskirts and at on approach roads to the town. The devleopment of a secure bike park in the town would also be a positive step.

Darkglasses

Lumen wrote: »

Is the town Wexford, or in Wexford?

The main reason I would like to have cycle lanes is to remind driver that cyclist are out there and help to improve the safety of cycling In town.

That'll be Wexford town then I think!

Donelson

Darkglasses wrote: »

I'm another Wexford cyclist, and I'm sorry to say I won't be supporting this call for cycle lanes at all! And definitely not the painted-on variety.

1. Most of the roads around Wexford town are very narrow, I can imagine cars will certainly be inching into the bike lanes, and it won't encourage drivers to give a safe passing distance. I would be concerned that drivers will get a false sense of security to only pass a cyclist with the width of a painted line.

2. There's so much on-street parking in Wexford, they will become parking zones, just like they do in Dublin.

3. The current cycle paths in the town (I can think of only two, at the round-abouts at Killeens and the ones near the hospital) are not usable. I don't trust whoever's job it is to make safe cycle lanes.

4. They may not be conducive to a good attitude from motorists. I can foresee a growth in "Get in the ****ing cycle lane!" attitudes.

Off-road cycle routes I would be in favour of, like the Mayo greenway. But not on-road ones. I first cycled in Dublin, so I was well-used to cycle lanes to begin with. Now, having moved to a place where they are very scarce, I find my cycling experience much improved.

Ok, I can appreciate your point of view, so what would you suggest to improve cycling I'm wexford town?

On a practical example. Take the bridge in town, I often (relatively) see cyclist cycling on the footpath because the bridge is too narrow and driver do make some very close passes if you cycle on the bridge. Surely this situation can be improved? And one potential solution is to create an on pavement cycle path, but there may be other better options?

I'm sure with a bit of thought there are a lot more improvements are possible, even take the county council building having a bike rack near the entrance would be a small but useful step.

I will continue to gather ideas and would welcome your suggestions.

Donelson

michaelm wrote: »

Based on my own experience of tackling this in my own area I will briefly suggest the following:

1. Towns with mayors will have their new mayors installed at the end of this month. This role is effectively chairperson of the town council and very often put together a programme of issues they would like to tackle - would be really worth talking to this person, and your timing is perfect!

2. Do your own research, pick an "easy win" and make this the first goal, once a start is made it is easier to take the next, possibly bigger, step.

This is the route we went down 3 years ago and we have now established the town on Nenagh as a cycling hub with 3 fully signed and mapped cycling routes, a growing number of cycle paths, (separate from the road) and last April we had our own cycle race The Visit Nenagh Classic.

Start small - but keep going

OP - Feel free to contact me privately for further info

thanks michaelm, this it's my first time getting involved on a local level so I'll take all the advice you have to offer.

Donelson

One more idea would be a cycle path on the quay with a train tracks crossing point near the talbot.
these are just little ideas but the if enough of them could be achieved it would make a big difference!

opti0nal

Donelson wrote: »

Ok, I can appreciate your point of view, so what would you suggest to improve cycling I'm wexford town?

Reduce on-street parking, lower the speed limits to 30kph, rigorously enforce the restrictions.

Have cycle parking created in the freed-up car parking spaces, as close as possible to the shopping.

Make friends with pedestrian interests and concentrate on quality of life issues for non-motorists.

And...don't look for cycle lanes/cycle tracks...you'll be sorry.

Seweryn

Donelson wrote: »

On a practical example. Take the bridge in town, I often (relatively) see cyclist cycling on the footpath because the bridge is too narrow and driver do make some very close passes if you cycle on the bridge. Surely this situation can be improved?

You can't cycle on the footpath, it is for pedestrians only. Road is for all vehicles - cars, bicycles, tractors, etc. Just cycle through the bridge by taking the lane, i.e. cycle in the middle of the lane to avoid dangerous overtaking (or "close passes" as you named it ).

Donelson

opti0nal wrote: »

Donelson wrote: »

Ok, I can appreciate your point of view, so what would you suggest to improve cycling I'm wexford town?

Reduce on-street parking, lower the speed limits to 30kph, rigorously enforce the restrictions.

Have cycle parking created in the freed-up car parking spaces, as close as possible to the shopping.

Make friends with pedestrian interests and concentrate on quality of life issues for non-motorists.

And...don't look for cycle lanes/cycle tracks...you'll be sorry.

I'm quiet surprised at the strength of feeling about cycle lanes!
but how else can you encourage motorists to allow space for cyclist? As it is, motorist barely over take, pull hard left and slow down sharply, leaving me to slam on my brakes.
we have a tiny number of town cyclists and I can only see it decreasing with out some improvements!

Donelson

Seweryn wrote: »

Donelson wrote: »

On a practical example. Take the bridge in town, I often (relatively) see cyclist cycling on the footpath because the bridge is too narrow and driver do make some very close passes if you cycle on the bridge. Surely this situation can be improved?

You can't cycle on the footpath, it is for pedestrians only. Road is for all vehicles - cars, bicycles, tractors, etc. Just cycle through the bridge by taking the lane, i.e. cycle in the middle of the lane to avoid dangerous overtaking (or "close passes" as you named it ).

I'm 100% with you on the footpaths are for pedestrians, it actually really annoys me when I see people cycling where they shouldn't. But unfortunately the bridge is unsafe and very unpleasant for cyclists as it is.
There most be some win-win improvements that can be made.

Seweryn

Donelson wrote: »

I'm 100% with you on the footpaths are for pedestrians, it actually really annoys me when I see people cycling where they shouldn't. But unfortunately the bridge is unsafe and very unpleasant for cyclists as it is.
There must be some win-win improvements that can be made.

We should make it safer by taking some actions. Write to your local government with your concerns, go on the streets to protest, etc. In other places they got it right. See here...

opti0nal

Donelson wrote: »

but how else can you encourage motorists to allow space for cyclist? As it is, motorist barely over take, pull hard left and slow down sharply, leaving me to slam on my brakes.

Promote a 'cyclists are people' campaign' illustrate it with videos taken on your bike of the near-misses.

Get motor insurance companies to issue advice to drivers and stickers promoting sharing/caring driving. The insurance companies should care as it's them that have to pick up the claims when their customers hit cyclists.

seeing_ie

Seweryn wrote: »

You can't cycle on the footpath, it is for pedestrians only. Road is for all vehicles - cars, bicycles, tractors, etc. Just cycle through the bridge by taking the lane, i.e. cycle in the middle of the lane to avoid dangerous overtaking (or "close passes" as you named it ).

This is the post most relevant to you OP.

Take the lane when necessary for safety reasons.

If you cycle in the gutter drivers will take it as an invitation to squeeze past you.

Donelson

This thread has been derailed, can a mod lock it for me please.

-PornStar-

Donelson wrote: »

This thread has been derailed, can a mod lock it for me please.

People are just trying to help you. Cycle lanes are usually a terribly implemented. They are rarely an improvement for cyclists. They force you to go slower, and put you in contention with pedestrians.

The best way to ensure your safety on the bike. Is to cycle in the center of the lane, with the rest of the traffic. Cycling on the far left of the road, only encourages drivers to overtake you dangerously. If you see oncoming traffic, then you should be right in the middle of the lane. This is not to be a dick, but for your own safety. It is suicidal to cycle on the left hand side of the road in Wexford town, because of the on street parking. You are right in the door zone. So when someone opens their door, you have no option than to go right into it. From there you will be flung out into oncoming traffic.

You really should pick up a copy of John Franklin's, Cyclecraft. Its written for the UK roads, but it is all relevant to cycling here in Ireland.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclecraft-complete-enjoyable-cycling-children/dp/0117037400/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339885516&sr=8-1

Donelson

I have no doubt that peoples intentions are/where good, and I will stop and consider the points raised. But from my reading of the thread, cycle lanes do not improve cycling safety, so everybody is left with cycle in the middle of the road or get back in the car, I find it disheartening, that most people myself included will have to choose the car but if that is really the reality then there is nothing more to be done.

Darkglasses

Donelson wrote: »

I have no doubt that peoples intentions are/where good, and I will stop and consider the points raised. But from my reading of the thread, cycle lanes do not improve cycling safety, so everybody is left with cycle in the middle of the road or get back in the car, I find it disheartening, that most people myself included will have to choose the car but if that is really the reality then there is nothing more to be done.

Don't be disheartened dude! I really quite enjoy my commute in Wexford! Safety in numbers

-PornStar-

Donelson wrote: »

I have no doubt that peoples intentions are/where good, and I will stop and consider the points raised. But from my reading of the thread, cycle lanes do not improve cycling safety, so everybody is left with cycle in the middle of the road or get back in the car, I find it disheartening, that most people myself included will have to choose the car but if that is really the reality then there is nothing more to be done.

That is cycling, that is the safest way of cycling. If there is no room for other road users to overtake, then they just have to deal with it. It is the same when they are stuck behind a tractor, or HGV. If it is not safe for them to overtake, then they are required by law to wait patiently.

I'm not trying to put you off cycling. I am just concerned with your current cycling habits. Stay away from those parked cars, they are lethal. I know it seems counter intuitive, and pretty much goes against everything you have been told about safe cycling. But being in the center of the lane is only place you should be, when it is unsafe for cars to be overtaking you.

I was recently discussing this topic with my sister. Saying how it seems silly that the safest place to be is in the middle of the lane. But she knew exactly what I was talking about, as she has to do the exact same thing when she is out on horses. It gives you room to maneuver, and forces dangerous drivers to overtake ONLY when it is safe to do so.

Seriously, you need to give that book a read.

Donelson

The reality of cycling in the middle of the road in wexford is that you will have cars clamped to your rear wheel for the entire journey, safe yes, appealing no.
If this thread keeps going I'll end up putting my bike up on adverts

defy, 2 years old with 5k, new tires, nct's 2013.

Lumen

Donelson wrote: »

The reality of cycling in the middle of the road in wexford is that you will have cars clamped to your rear wheel for the entire journey, safe yes, appealing no.

You don't need to cycle in the middle of the lane ALL of the time, just when failing to do so is likely to make the stupidest drivers have an accident.

In Dublin there's only a couple of places on my usual routes where I completely "take the lane", one of them is a railway bridge with a high kerb, narrow lane and blind crest. In that case, some idiots will overtake despite having zero visibility of the road ahead and no "plan B" which doesn't involve running me over.

I don't think Wexford town is particularly unusual or different from Dublin, in fact the speeds are a bit lower in Wexford if anything. The main roads outside the town itself are good for cycling, great visibility and a wide, well-surfaced hard shoulder.

Seweryn

Donelson wrote: »

The reality of cycling in the middle of the road lane in Wexford is that you will have cars clamped to your rear wheel for the entire journey, safe yes, appealing no.

Are you sorry for the drivers or you care about your safety? You have exactly the same right for being there and using the lane, as any other road users.

Cycling in this country was somehow pushed off the road in recent decades by our own society, by making our culture car-centric. That is what we need to change. The people's mindsets, not much more than that.

Donelson wrote: »

If this thread keeps going I'll end up putting my bike up on adverts

By doing this, it sounds like you are going to accept the behavior of other road users and driving a car instead. Secondly, by driving instead, you move the problem away from you, but to other cyclists...